A new character party [Archive] - Wizards Community

A new character party [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EberronGuiGui
07-15-04, 04:33 AM The players of my party are building their characters.

- A human artificer from I can't remember from where
- A kalashtar psi warrior from Adar if I remember
- A half-elf rogue from Breland
- A shifter ranger from Eldeen Reaches

I'm trying to make them play characters which are very close to the world tone.
It seams that I succeeded.
But the kalashtar player wanted to play a warforged warrior psi.
I didn't let him play it because IMO it is a kind of character that could exist according to the rules but which should be a very very very rare class/race combination.
What do you think about it ?
Do you think that other character race than human and kalashtar can be psi character in Eberron as far as you want to stay as closely as possible from the world tone ?
The White Sorcerer
07-15-04, 05:03 AM Originally posted by EberronGuiGui
I didn't let him play it because IMO it is a kind of character that could exist according to the rules but which should be a very very very rare class/race combination.

PCs are supposed to be rare and exceptional individuals.

Do you think that other character race than human and kalashtar can be psi character in Eberron as far as you want to stay as closely as possible from the world tone?

I don't see why not. I haven't read the book cover to cover yet, but I can't find anything that would limit psionic classes to humans and kalashtar.
Bocklin
07-15-04, 06:26 AM Originally posted by EberronGuiGui
But the kalashtar player wanted to play a warforged warrior psi.
I didn't let him play it because IMO it is a kind of character that could exist according to the rules but which should be a very very very rare class/race combination.
What do you think about it ?

Actually, like White Sorcerer, I do not think that it is so improbable. You have a brand new type of creatures coming to existence (i.e. the Warforged). They are without past and have to explore a new mystery for all constructs: conscience.

On that basis I could very well imagine Warforged to be drawn towards psi classes. It is a way for them to explore their newly gained conscience and reflect on their existence as sentient beings.

This would even somehow be an alternative/opposed version of the Warforged à la Juggernaut, focusing on his construct apsect.

In the present case the character neglects its construct heritage to explore the meanders of his mind. He might even tend to oppose the Lord of the Blades who tends to herd the warforged to transform them back into "mindless" machines (according to his views).

So I do not think that this is totally un-Eberonesque to play a Warforged Psi-warrior! ;)

I'd be happy to hear your opinion.

Bocklin
EberronGuiGui
07-15-04, 07:26 AM My point of vue is simple.
It concern the world background.

I know that according to the rules warforged are not prevented from playing psi character class but it's not my point.
I know too that it's not illogical to imagine a warforged psi because warforged should want to explore the psychic fields but t's not my point too.

BUT according to the background :
warforged are from Khorvaire
psi are from Sarlona

And my intention is that for the first time I make a campaign in Eberron world, I want to make my players take class/races combinations the closer as possible to the background of the campaign setting.
According to that choice I'm trying to avoid such things as warforged psi character because psi character are not regional class from the regions of Khorvaire where the warforged come from.

I suppose that warforged that live in Sarlona or come from Sarlona were created in Khorvaire in the first place, not in Sarlona.
And psi character classes are not regional classes for races which were born in Sarlona.
So as far as psi characters are MAINLY from Sarlona according to the background I decided not to allow him this combination.

So my question should be : Do you think that there are warforged which were builded in Sarlona ?
JBW
07-15-04, 07:40 AM So my question should be : Do you think that there are warforged which were builded in Sarlona?

No. But it is quite possible that when the Treaty of Thronehold was under discussion and the ammendment to free the Warforged was brought forward, some government officials decided to find a "backdoor".

Instead of freeing their Warforged, they quickly drew up deals with Reidan ambassadors an sold them many of their Warforged.

This gives characters other than Kalashtar a tie to Sarlona. A Warforged rendered inert in the final days of the Last War may recover and search out his old unit. To his horror, they were neither destroyed in battle nor set free with the Treaty...instead they continue to slave away at the behest of the Inspired across a vast ocean.

Or perhaps one of these Reidan-purchased Warforged escapes...It is quite possible that has been "modified" to be a Psychic Warrior or Psion.

Lastly, for NPCs, it is quite possible that elderly Empty Vessels, now too old to hold a Quori, may use True Mind Switch to take on the unaging body of a Warforged. Or, it might be possible to Mind Seed the Warforged with the psyche of powerful Psions or Psychic Warriors (Pearl of Mind Seed). this ensures a corps of loyal, and potentially psionically active Warforged for the Reidans.

Jay
EberronGuiGui
07-15-04, 07:51 AM yes all this is possible supositions not known bakground

but these are interresting ideas
JBW
07-15-04, 07:57 AM yes all this is possible supositions not known bakground

Sorry buddy, I can't help you...

If "supposition" isn't good enough for you and you must have "known background" which, I am lead to believe must come from an official source in order to qualify in your view, then I really feel for your players.

As a DM, it is you job to find such "supposition" and make it work for the better enjoyment of your players and yourself. I was giving suggestions that would have helped to make a player's desire a reality. Shouldn't you be doing the same?

Jay
Chrys
07-15-04, 07:59 AM Ah but in the book they all but say that 'forgerd have ties to giants, and the giants in there war with the Dal Quir made the proto forged with some psi powers.
Bocklin
07-15-04, 08:40 AM Originally posted by EberronGuiGui
psi are from Sarlona

Sorry, that's true but too limited a view.

1) The ECS states that there is a strong and active minority of Kalashtar in Sharn, mostly refugees from Sarlona.

These people brought their psi know-how with them and both their religion and opposition to the Dreaming Dark, makes them likely to be willing to share their psi knowledge with non-kalashtar (as a way to promote the enlightment sought by the Path of Light but also as a way to oppose their ancestral ennemy).

2) In the "Ask Keith" thread he explains himself that these Kalashtar immigrants are probably the one who trained most of the psions on Khorvaire.

To be complete, he also mentions that the members of the Dreaming Dark could also impart a bit of their psi knowledge to their agents of the lesser races, but obviously for other reaons than the one motivating the Kalashtar.

So you are right that psi powers are "from" Sarlona, but they are in no way limited to that place.

There are quite enough Psi-trained people on Khorvaire and I could perfectly see why a Warforged would be willing to study with the Kalashtar of Sharn.

Bocklin
Ronin84
07-15-04, 08:45 AM Hmm...

I think it' s great that you are trying to stay to the theme of Eberron, BUT that is what your player is doing. Exploring something different is something pulp writers have been doing for a LONG time.

And if it makes the PC happy and doesn't unbalance anything, who cares.

My 2 cents
bahamut_0
07-15-04, 08:49 AM Originally posted by Ronin84
Hmm...

I think it' s great that you are trying to stay to the theme of Eberron, BUT that is what your player is doing. Exploring something different is something pulp writers have been doing for a LONG time.

And if it makes the PC happy and doesn't unbalance anything, who cares.

My 2 cents

Exactly.

And I agree with what JBW said.
demonpunk
07-15-04, 09:19 AM You're going for world flavor.

Warforged are just oozing with flavor. IMO you can't play a warforged and not have that flavor, no matter what the class.

Psionics in Eberron are linked to the Kalashtar. Involve a Kalashtar in the PCs history and you have the flavor.

Example: the warforged was created by two friends, a gnome artificer and a kalashtar psion, who both had a grudge against the Inspired. The warforged PC was a prototype psychic warrior design, hopefully to be used against the Inspired. However, the warforged was sent out to fight in the Last War and seperated from his creators. The war ended shortly thereafter, and the warforged was left with a decision to make--follow his own path in life, or find his creators and pursue their dream.
There you go, instant flavor, and some adventure ideas (finding his creators, who have mysteriously disappeared; perhaps being singled out for extermination by the Inspired).

I understand your point that its not the "typical" warforged. I think it could reinforce the flavor of the world by pointing out constantly that the warforged is different from his fellows.
EberronGuiGui
07-15-04, 09:43 AM Originally posted by Chrys
Ah but in the book they all but say that 'forgerd have ties to giants, and the giants in there war with the Dal Quir made the proto forged with some psi powers.

where do you read that ?
jedi8187
07-15-04, 10:20 AM Originally posted by EberronGuiGui
where do you read that ?

It isn't stated directly, but is insuated through some things. Such as docents(witch are found in Xen'drick), and Keith's own statements. Bascily House Cannith found the schemmas for the warforged in Xen'drick.
debatedeus
07-15-04, 10:30 AM I saw two really really good ideas in this thread that I want to give props to:

1.) Selling Warforged to Riedian ambassadors from Sarlona at the end of the last war instead of freeing them like the treaty of thronehold says.

2.) Ancient Warforged constructed by the Giants of Xen'drik to Combat the terrible evil of the Invaders from Dal Quor. The Giants experimented with crystal lacing in the precursor warforged, and designed them to combat the powerful evil Quori.

Just saying, this is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I surf these threads so much.

That said, remember that any character race can be any character class, no matter how rare or unique the case may be. The ranger entry says that halflings are very rarely rangers--that does not mean that a PC halfling could not be a ranger.

Someone else said that the PCs are unique and special, that includes having unique backgrounds, like being one of Merrix d'Canneth's recent experiments in Psionics and Warforged.

I would never tell a PC that they could not be a specific LA 0 race.
EberronGuiGui
07-15-04, 11:45 AM Originally posted by debatedeus
That said, remember that any character race can be any character class, no matter how rare or unique the case may be. The ranger entry says that halflings are very rarely rangers--that does not mean that a PC halfling could not be a ranger.

Another time !

My post wasn't about rules.
I was about sticking to the flavor of the world the closer as possible taking into acount regional classes.
EberronGuiGui
07-15-04, 11:48 AM Originally posted by jedi8187
It isn't stated directly, but is insuated through some things. Such as docents(witch are found in Xen'drick), and Keith's own statements. Bascily House Cannith found the schemmas for the warforged in Xen'drick.

yeah ok for giants of course
where do you read that stuff about psi in Xen'Drik ?
Ronin84
07-15-04, 11:56 AM Not trying to sound like I am flaming, but have you read page 24 of the ECS under Region of Origin.

It clearly states that race (which warforge is a race) does not necessarily have any bearing on his region of origin.

It also states in the paragraph above that the choices are NOT meant to be restrictive since exceptions exist to such general rules.

Now it's your campaign do what you wish, what we are trying to say I think, is that the PC could do this AND stick to the feel of the campaign as it was written in the book.

Humbly submitted
jedi8187
07-15-04, 11:59 AM The giants are in Xen'drick, and thats where the Dal Quor Invasion happened. And in Eberron Psionics come from Xoriat or Dal Quor, not Sarlona, Sarlona is just run by those possesed by Quori spirits. So it makes sense that giants might try to make psionic troops to fight psionic foes.
debatedeus
07-15-04, 12:37 PM Originally posted by EberronGuiGui
Another time !

My post wasn't about rules.
I was about sticking to the flavor of the world the closer as possible taking into acount regional classes.

It shouldn't be a question of flavor and region. Regions are not supposed to limit a character's options (As Ronin84 Aptly points out), they are meant to expand them or to give a history jump off point. I have in one of my games a Kalashtar orphan raised by the Halflings of the Talentia Plains as a warrior. He hasn't yet discovered his psionic potential, and I won't tell him that he cannot be a Psion ever because he isn't from a Kalashtar Community in Sharn or from a Monastic Fortress in Sarlona. Really, what this guy did was take elements of the unique flavor of Eberron, and combine them in a new and interesting Approach. Doing something like this not only preserves the flavor of a great setting, but enhances it with the creative impluses of the people playing it. If that isn't what Keith Baker wanted, I don't know what is.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EberronGuiGui 07-15-04, 04:33 AM	The players of my party are building their characters. - A human artificer from I can't remember from where - A kalashtar psi warrior from Adar if I remember - A half-elf rogue from Breland - A shifter ranger from Eldeen Reaches I'm trying to make them play characters which are very close to the world tone. It seams that I succeeded. But the kalashtar player wanted to play a warforged warrior psi. I didn't let him play it because IMO it is a kind of character that could exist according to the rules but which should be a very very very rare class/race combination. What do you think about it ? Do you think that other character race than human and kalashtar can be psi character in Eberron as far as you want to stay as closely as possible from the world tone ?
The White Sorcerer 07-15-04, 05:03 AM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui I didn't let him play it because IMO it is a kind of character that could exist according to the rules but which should be a very very very rare class/race combination. PCs are supposed to be rare and exceptional individuals. Do you think that other character race than human and kalashtar can be psi character in Eberron as far as you want to stay as closely as possible from the world tone? I don't see why not. I haven't read the book cover to cover yet, but I can't find anything that would limit psionic classes to humans and kalashtar.
Bocklin 07-15-04, 06:26 AM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui But the kalashtar player wanted to play a warforged warrior psi. I didn't let him play it because IMO it is a kind of character that could exist according to the rules but which should be a very very very rare class/race combination. What do you think about it ? Actually, like White Sorcerer, I do not think that it is so improbable. You have a brand new type of creatures coming to existence (i.e. the Warforged). They are without past and have to explore a new mystery for all constructs: conscience. On that basis I could very well imagine Warforged to be drawn towards psi classes. It is a way for them to explore their newly gained conscience and reflect on their existence as sentient beings. This would even somehow be an alternative/opposed version of the Warforged à la Juggernaut, focusing on his construct apsect. In the present case the character neglects its construct heritage to explore the meanders of his mind. He might even tend to oppose the Lord of the Blades who tends to herd the warforged to transform them back into "mindless" machines (according to his views). So I do not think that this is totally un-Eberonesque to play a Warforged Psi-warrior! ;) I'd be happy to hear your opinion. Bocklin
EberronGuiGui 07-15-04, 07:26 AM	My point of vue is simple. It concern the world background. I know that according to the rules warforged are not prevented from playing psi character class but it's not my point. I know too that it's not illogical to imagine a warforged psi because warforged should want to explore the psychic fields but t's not my point too. BUT according to the background : warforged are from Khorvaire psi are from Sarlona And my intention is that for the first time I make a campaign in Eberron world, I want to make my players take class/races combinations the closer as possible to the background of the campaign setting. According to that choice I'm trying to avoid such things as warforged psi character because psi character are not regional class from the regions of Khorvaire where the warforged come from. I suppose that warforged that live in Sarlona or come from Sarlona were created in Khorvaire in the first place, not in Sarlona. And psi character classes are not regional classes for races which were born in Sarlona. So as far as psi characters are MAINLY from Sarlona according to the background I decided not to allow him this combination. So my question should be : Do you think that there are warforged which were builded in Sarlona ?
JBW 07-15-04, 07:40 AM	So my question should be : Do you think that there are warforged which were builded in Sarlona? No. But it is quite possible that when the Treaty of Thronehold was under discussion and the ammendment to free the Warforged was brought forward, some government officials decided to find a "backdoor". Instead of freeing their Warforged, they quickly drew up deals with Reidan ambassadors an sold them many of their Warforged. This gives characters other than Kalashtar a tie to Sarlona. A Warforged rendered inert in the final days of the Last War may recover and search out his old unit. To his horror, they were neither destroyed in battle nor set free with the Treaty...instead they continue to slave away at the behest of the Inspired across a vast ocean. Or perhaps one of these Reidan-purchased Warforged escapes...It is quite possible that has been "modified" to be a Psychic Warrior or Psion. Lastly, for NPCs, it is quite possible that elderly Empty Vessels, now too old to hold a Quori, may use True Mind Switch to take on the unaging body of a Warforged. Or, it might be possible to Mind Seed the Warforged with the psyche of powerful Psions or Psychic Warriors (Pearl of Mind Seed). this ensures a corps of loyal, and potentially psionically active Warforged for the Reidans. Jay
EberronGuiGui 07-15-04, 07:51 AM	yes all this is possible supositions not known bakground but these are interresting ideas
JBW 07-15-04, 07:57 AM	yes all this is possible supositions not known bakground Sorry buddy, I can't help you... If "supposition" isn't good enough for you and you must have "known background" which, I am lead to believe must come from an official source in order to qualify in your view, then I really feel for your players. As a DM, it is you job to find such "supposition" and make it work for the better enjoyment of your players and yourself. I was giving suggestions that would have helped to make a player's desire a reality. Shouldn't you be doing the same? Jay
Chrys 07-15-04, 07:59 AM	Ah but in the book they all but say that 'forgerd have ties to giants, and the giants in there war with the Dal Quir made the proto forged with some psi powers.
Bocklin 07-15-04, 08:40 AM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui psi are from Sarlona Sorry, that's true but too limited a view. 1) The ECS states that there is a strong and active minority of Kalashtar in Sharn, mostly refugees from Sarlona. These people brought their psi know-how with them and both their religion and opposition to the Dreaming Dark, makes them likely to be willing to share their psi knowledge with non-kalashtar (as a way to promote the enlightment sought by the Path of Light but also as a way to oppose their ancestral ennemy). 2) In the "Ask Keith" thread he explains himself that these Kalashtar immigrants are probably the one who trained most of the psions on Khorvaire. To be complete, he also mentions that the members of the Dreaming Dark could also impart a bit of their psi knowledge to their agents of the lesser races, but obviously for other reaons than the one motivating the Kalashtar. So you are right that psi powers are "from" Sarlona, but they are in no way limited to that place. There are quite enough Psi-trained people on Khorvaire and I could perfectly see why a Warforged would be willing to study with the Kalashtar of Sharn. Bocklin
Ronin84 07-15-04, 08:45 AM	Hmm... I think it' s great that you are trying to stay to the theme of Eberron, BUT that is what your player is doing. Exploring something different is something pulp writers have been doing for a LONG time. And if it makes the PC happy and doesn't unbalance anything, who cares. My 2 cents
bahamut_0 07-15-04, 08:49 AM	Originally posted by Ronin84 Hmm... I think it' s great that you are trying to stay to the theme of Eberron, BUT that is what your player is doing. Exploring something different is something pulp writers have been doing for a LONG time. And if it makes the PC happy and doesn't unbalance anything, who cares. My 2 cents Exactly. And I agree with what JBW said.
demonpunk 07-15-04, 09:19 AM	You're going for world flavor. Warforged are just oozing with flavor. IMO you can't play a warforged and not have that flavor, no matter what the class. Psionics in Eberron are linked to the Kalashtar. Involve a Kalashtar in the PCs history and you have the flavor. Example: the warforged was created by two friends, a gnome artificer and a kalashtar psion, who both had a grudge against the Inspired. The warforged PC was a prototype psychic warrior design, hopefully to be used against the Inspired. However, the warforged was sent out to fight in the Last War and seperated from his creators. The war ended shortly thereafter, and the warforged was left with a decision to make--follow his own path in life, or find his creators and pursue their dream. There you go, instant flavor, and some adventure ideas (finding his creators, who have mysteriously disappeared; perhaps being singled out for extermination by the Inspired). I understand your point that its not the "typical" warforged. I think it could reinforce the flavor of the world by pointing out constantly that the warforged is different from his fellows.
EberronGuiGui 07-15-04, 09:43 AM	Originally posted by Chrys Ah but in the book they all but say that 'forgerd have ties to giants, and the giants in there war with the Dal Quir made the proto forged with some psi powers. where do you read that ?
jedi8187 07-15-04, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui where do you read that ? It isn't stated directly, but is insuated through some things. Such as docents(witch are found in Xen'drick), and Keith's own statements. Bascily House Cannith found the schemmas for the warforged in Xen'drick.
debatedeus 07-15-04, 10:30 AM	I saw two really really good ideas in this thread that I want to give props to: 1.) Selling Warforged to Riedian ambassadors from Sarlona at the end of the last war instead of freeing them like the treaty of thronehold says. 2.) Ancient Warforged constructed by the Giants of Xen'drik to Combat the terrible evil of the Invaders from Dal Quor. The Giants experimented with crystal lacing in the precursor warforged, and designed them to combat the powerful evil Quori. Just saying, this is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I surf these threads so much. That said, remember that any character race can be any character class, no matter how rare or unique the case may be. The ranger entry says that halflings are very rarely rangers--that does not mean that a PC halfling could not be a ranger. Someone else said that the PCs are unique and special, that includes having unique backgrounds, like being one of Merrix d'Canneth's recent experiments in Psionics and Warforged. I would never tell a PC that they could not be a specific LA 0 race.
EberronGuiGui 07-15-04, 11:45 AM	Originally posted by debatedeus That said, remember that any character race can be any character class, no matter how rare or unique the case may be. The ranger entry says that halflings are very rarely rangers--that does not mean that a PC halfling could not be a ranger. Another time ! My post wasn't about rules. I was about sticking to the flavor of the world the closer as possible taking into acount regional classes.
EberronGuiGui 07-15-04, 11:48 AM	Originally posted by jedi8187 It isn't stated directly, but is insuated through some things. Such as docents(witch are found in Xen'drick), and Keith's own statements. Bascily House Cannith found the schemmas for the warforged in Xen'drick. yeah ok for giants of course where do you read that stuff about psi in Xen'Drik ?
Ronin84 07-15-04, 11:56 AM	Not trying to sound like I am flaming, but have you read page 24 of the ECS under Region of Origin. It clearly states that race (which warforge is a race) does not necessarily have any bearing on his region of origin. It also states in the paragraph above that the choices are NOT meant to be restrictive since exceptions exist to such general rules. Now it's your campaign do what you wish, what we are trying to say I think, is that the PC could do this AND stick to the feel of the campaign as it was written in the book. Humbly submitted
jedi8187 07-15-04, 11:59 AM	The giants are in Xen'drick, and thats where the Dal Quor Invasion happened. And in Eberron Psionics come from Xoriat or Dal Quor, not Sarlona, Sarlona is just run by those possesed by Quori spirits. So it makes sense that giants might try to make psionic troops to fight psionic foes.
debatedeus 07-15-04, 12:37 PM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui Another time ! My post wasn't about rules. I was about sticking to the flavor of the world the closer as possible taking into acount regional classes. It shouldn't be a question of flavor and region. Regions are not supposed to limit a character's options (As Ronin84 Aptly points out), they are meant to expand them or to give a history jump off point. I have in one of my games a Kalashtar orphan raised by the Halflings of the Talentia Plains as a warrior. He hasn't yet discovered his psionic potential, and I won't tell him that he cannot be a Psion ever because he isn't from a Kalashtar Community in Sharn or from a Monastic Fortress in Sarlona. Really, what this guy did was take elements of the unique flavor of Eberron, and combine them in a new and interesting Approach. Doing something like this not only preserves the flavor of a great setting, but enhances it with the creative impluses of the people playing it. If that isn't what Keith Baker wanted, I don't know what is.