Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WizO_Sith 05-27-04, 02:03 PM	Ok, this is a blow to my pride, but fair's fair and it needs to be said. After reading the previews on the website and in Dragon Magazine, I am finally willing to conceed that Kieth Baker's Eberron setting is better than the setting proposal I sent to WotC for the setting search.
Mad Miso 05-27-04, 02:26 PM	It takes a big, evil-dark-side-weilding-sith-moderator to admit that. :) I've always said the genius of Eberron is in the details. I remember reading comments by the judges saying that they never really expected Eberron to be the winner, but couldn't help but pick it in the end. In other words, the more they knew about the setting, the better it looked. I find this true for most people, the more they know about it, the less they have to complain about.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 05-27-04, 03:09 PM	I wonder how many other people are willing to admit that? WEll done :) I wonder if WotC will ever put out a list of all the settings that didnt make it. Maybe not all of them, but perhaps the final 100 or something. Perhaps a line or two to summarize them. It would be great to see what else we could have gotten.
Incenjucar 05-27-04, 05:03 PM	I'm willing to admit the same, despite not caring for Eberron. Of course, my submission was practially a whole new game and the result of, at that time, no 3e experience whatsoever, and still fairly little gaming experience considering how long I've been in the hobby. So I have the "I suck and avoid Tolkein" defense. Take that, Dark Side, bwahaha! Of course, the number of elements that have cropped up in D&D since that time which have resembled elements of my setting proposal makes me smugly satisfied despite. Warshapers and the shapeshifters in Eberron all faintly resemble my ol' Scion of Flesh/Change concept, albeit not to the extreme I intended. Maybe if I could finally learn how to complete something.. or play a few more actual, you know, games of D&D... novel idea though that is... stupid Bible Thumper town... grr..
protonik 05-27-04, 09:21 PM	My proposal was so similar to Eberron I almost feel ripped off, except mine was Dark Fantasy and more like Greyhawk than FR... think Scarred Lands with the EBerron back story, though before I learned of the world of Scarn... or Eberron. Jason
LuciafSlayer 05-28-04, 10:16 AM	Sith, perhaps you could give a few of your proposals in your setting idea, I'm curious to know what some of the non-winners :D , that sounds nice, sent in.
WizO_Sith 05-28-04, 01:28 PM	Originally posted by LuciafSlayer Sith, perhaps you could give a few of your proposals in your setting idea, I'm curious to know what some of the non-winners :D , that sounds nice, sent in. In my case, I think that, where my FUBAR was was that my setting was very Tolkienesque (in that is was a very traditional fantasy setting), had an integral metaplot, and (perhaps most damning of all) all the campaign religions were monotheistic. The "hook" was that, in the campaign, the PCs were *IT* in terms of heroes. That is, they were the ONLY major heroes in the setting. It was a politics of scarcety approach. For example, the Party Cleric (if there was one) would be the ONLY spellcasting cleric in the Campaign (well, the only spellcasting cleric that wasn't devoted to the forces of Darkness), Same thing with nonhumnas (indeed, most folks in the setting thought of nonhumans as creatures of myth and legend). While that might raise a few eyebrows, it's an interesting way to game if you've never tried it. It raises the stakes on EVERYTHING when your character is the only thing that stands in the way of the ahnilation of everything that is green and good in the world.
Sulaco 05-28-04, 02:08 PM	I'd like to see the proposals that otehr ssubmitted. Perhaps we could start a thread for such and the Homebrew board. You wanna here a really sucky story? I was on this board at the time and I didn't learn about the setting search until the DAY AFTER it closed! How lame is that? :tantrum: I know the setting I would have sumbitted though. It is one I have been mulling over for a while now. In many ways it is kinda anti-Tolkien; not exactly in details but in feel. Imagine Middle Earth, a few hundred years after LotR, if Sauron had partially succeeded. The best way to describe it using existing properties would be Thief:The Dark Project meets The Warhammer World meets Hyborea meets Discworld. But not really. It is a low-magic very humanocentric world. Elves are a dying and decadent empire revelling in long-past glories, Dwarves are not Scottish comic relief, Gnomes are a dead race, Orcs are largely a conquered and marginalized people like American Indians in the 19th century, etc... Similar in some ways to Sith's idea, many non-human races are virtually unknown in civilized lands. Elves and Dwarves live several thousand miles from the Human empires. And though heroes weren't as rare, magic items are. For example, in this setting there is a cloak of invisibility, a vorpal sword, a wand of wonder, etc.... So rare is magic that even "common" +1 magic weapons have names and histories. Most simple "+" weapons are actually just higher levels of masterwork. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Alisair Longreach II 05-28-04, 04:33 PM	Sulaco, have you checked out the Midnight campaign from Fantasy Flight Games?
Incenjucar 05-28-04, 05:12 PM	Originally posted by Sulaco I'd like to see the proposals that otehr ssubmitted. Perhaps we could start a thread for such and the Homebrew board. There used to be a board for these, actually.
About Yea High 05-28-04, 06:34 PM	I edited and polished the setting proposal submitted by a good friend of mine (I edit, I write, it's what I do). At the time I was reasonably certain he had a good chance of at least getting a second look, but alas - his proposal fell into what we call the Great Sucking Black Hole of Unanswered Mail. It happens. Writers who've blindly submitted anything (especially screenwriters) know exactly what I'm talking about. It comes to a point where a rejection letter is a good thing! (I'm curious whether or not Sulaco ever got his Maiden of Pain rejection letter, or if he's still waiting...) But my friend's setting proposal was based on a text RP/written story world developed on AOL (www.Lyrantalpress.com for the curious), and was pretty well developed... aside from the fact that it could have been confused with Dominaria of Magic: the Gathering fame at first glance. Hindsight being 20/20, that's what probably killed it... I mean, if you're going to make Dungeons & Dragons: The Gathering, why use another setting? But first-glance trash-heap aside, after seeing Eberron... I already know it was a no-brainer. My friend never had a chance. This setting is going to rock. O Dap, the Artist Formerly Known As Yea High
Harmony's Sorrow 05-28-04, 07:20 PM	Hmm.... While I won't waste all your time one major hook of my world was the temporary energies/gifts that a PC could have after being infused with essence from an "Arcana Helix". The primary continent of the world was smallest in population of the 3 main ones. They were always a target and presumably easily conquered. History had it they were actually occupied a number of times. But the big secret was that the world was a fallen Goddess... THE UBER deity of the pantheon truth be known, which is where the other deities took their power - at her demise. But her fallen form, where the majority of gaming would likely take place, still sparked off energy now and again. Those occurences were known as arcana helixes, invisible to the naked eye, though always seeable in the border ethereal... virtually ebbs of power, that if a character dared step into, could infuse them with power, small or grand... temporary or eternal... And if an Arcana Helix was never tainted... *very unlikely but something cool characters could look for* they would culminate creating on Ordiri Orb. Which could be tapped for power. VERY similar on a couple of notes to the dragon shards... but you didn't have to be dragon marked to use them all. Anyway, that was one of my "Top 5" hooks. Theme... who cares. I lost. Whoah! I got carried away! Sorry!
Sulaco 05-28-04, 11:49 PM	Originally posted by Alisair Longreach II Sulaco, have you checked out the Midnight campaign from Fantasy Flight Games? I've heard the name but know little beyond that. Is it similar? If so I'd actually prefer to avoid it, since I am begining work now on developing that world for possible publication. Wish me luck.
Sulaco 05-28-04, 11:53 PM	Originally posted by About Yea High (I'm curious whether or not Sulaco ever got his Maiden of Pain rejection letter, or if he's still waiting...) Yup. I got the bog-standard "thanks by no thanks" letter. Not even the "don't call us, we'll call you proviso". Quite cheesed me off really, but I can see why. I really didn't submit a D&D/FR type story. My submission was all about the nature of good and evil and the vageries of faith. Not a whole lot of "guys fighting monsters with magic" as they put it. Oh well. I've got more than enough of my own ideas to work on, I just need to figure out which one to develop.
WizO_Sith 05-29-04, 12:38 PM	Originally posted by About Yea High It happens. Writers who've blindly submitted anything (especially screenwriters) know exactly what I'm talking about. It comes to a point where a rejection letter is a good thing! Amen Brother! And it's certainly better than getting a "Cease and desist" letter from Warner Brothers regarding your "Superman" script (Still stinging from that one).
Sulaco 05-29-04, 02:22 PM	Originally posted by WizO_Sith Amen Brother! And it's certainly better than getting a "Cease and desist" letter from Warner Brothers regarding your "Superman" script (Still stinging from that one). After the cluster-:censored: that Kevin Smith went through with his Superman script, Jon Peters, and Tim Burton, I think you should consider yourself lucky. Check out the "An Evening with Kevin Smith" DVD sometime for the whole story. It ain't pretty, but it's damn funny.
Remnant 05-29-04, 03:59 PM	Going through my homebrew stuff, had I known about the contest, the work I would have submitted is inferior to Eberron. Don't get me wrong- I like my work, but looking at it now, it lacks the versatility and depth of Eberron. The setting I would have used is heavily epic (in the actual sense of the word, not the 20+ character levels sense), and has a real good-guys-wear-the-white-hats-and-bad-guys-pull-on-their-greasy-handlebar-moustaches feel to it. A good setting for combat heavy, evil-stomping romps, but not so good for intriuge and moral ambiguity. That said, one of my settings centers on a city-state that makes heavy use of constructs (controled by the elite class), for all aspects of life. They were however constructs in the normal sense- no sentience or souls here, save for the occasional outlier. The setting was more of a one-shot psuedo political statement on the dangers of technology advancement combined with an economically stratified culture however.
Timespike 05-29-04, 08:04 PM	Originally posted by Incenjucar [B or play a few more actual, you know, games of D&D... novel idea though that is... stupid Bible Thumper town... grr.. [/B] Not every Christian is set against the hobby, you know.
Flame_Drake 05-30-04, 09:02 PM	.. or play a few more actual, you know, games of D&D... novel idea though that is... stupid Bible Thumper town... grr.. There actually is a thread devoted to Christains playing DnD, its one of the biggest
Incenjucar 05-30-04, 10:41 PM	Note: There's a difference between "Christian Town" and "Bible Thumper Town". The only people in town I've met that play the game are people who have too childish a mentality for me to tolerate. I prefer to hang out with people who can comprehend 'enjoyment' being seperate from 'drunk'. Thankfully, I'm heading towards a slightly more liberal city come fall. Back to the topic.
Singing Urgosh 05-31-04, 01:13 AM	Yeah well I thought, I planned I submitted and was knocked back... but at least I got a letter. :D Not sure where this placed me in the scheme of things but I have kept it nontheless as at least a source of official letterhead that I can scan and reuse (just kidding, call off the lawyers). Even though I posted in the 'Loosers are brooders' board that WOTC had up for a while, here are some of my selling points: 1) Elves arn't nice. The elves are similar to the Roman society at the hight of Christandom (no bashing, just timeline). They have little to do with any non-elf nation, preferring instead to conqour and enslave anyone whose lands look inviting. 2) Orcs are good. In this world the Orcs represent the progenator race created by the gods as labourers and workers of the 'paradise' they had made. They are quiet, solemn and have a culture based upon a mix of Persian imagery with a devout Muslim worship theme (pray 3 times daily, pacafistic, etc). 3) Humans and Dwarves live in a symbiosis of sorts with one inhabiting the top side of a city and the other living diectly below. The Dwarves mine, work metals, create clockwork and quasi-magical daily implements (Keith stole this one) for daily living. They also keep in place the walls of force which keep other subterrainean races/creatures at bay. The humans provide food, wood, commerce and topside protection to the Dwarves who shun daylight areas. 4) Dwarves are cool. Not Haha cool but really cool. They replace the elves in the normal role of the 'higher race' and it is them who commune with the Gods and bring religion and learning to the world. Thier culture is Renaissance Greek in look and political structure, although they do still sound Scottish. Well, this is getting a bit long so I will cut it there. Stay sane.
stembolt 05-31-04, 02:14 AM	It may reduce some feelings of inadequacy to find out that Keiths setting seems to have undergone some significant changes from its starting point. It only makes sense. After all the WotC staff are the experts at fitting the details of the world together it is the big ideas that they were interested in. Piecing together what the game designers revealed at the release seminar and what I know now it seems that the concept they really liked was the whole world dragon idea. In fact they were afraid to mention it for fear that someone else would steal the idea and publish it first. It could be a great game to guess what was original Keith and what was added later but it is unlikely we will ever actually know. Suffice to say that if anyone’s basic campaign world was worked up by the staff at WotC it would probably be as good as Eberron.
Sulaco 05-31-04, 12:58 PM	Originally posted by stembolt It could be a great game to guess what was original Keith and what was added later but it is unlikely we will ever actually know. Suffice to say that if anyone’s basic campaign world was worked up by the staff at WotC it would probably be as good as Eberron. Good point. It is impossible to compare a fully-realized game setting to a 1 page sketch proposal. I am certain that virtually any proposal would have turned out to be a dynamte product after so much hard work from so many talented folks.
Incenjucar 05-31-04, 02:15 PM	Of course, the secondary and tertiary writings would have been interesting to see.
drekmonger 06-02-04, 01:39 AM	In mine, the entire world was the dream of small modern-day child in a coma. The people of the world “worship” the kid as the creating god. It was fairytale-esque setting, wherein no one ever really dies. All the silliness of 1st edition adventures (idiotic riddles with modern day overtones, the alice in wonderland stuff in castle greyhawk, dragons trapped in cramped rooms) exists in Edea due the world being imaginary, and therefore occasionally nonsensical. Adversaries were invading nightmares from the edge of the dream, cast in the form of D&D monsters. I knew it wouldn't get far. ;) Even if I were a better writer, it’s a complete 180 from the direction DnD’s been going in for the past decade or so.
Alathayn 06-02-04, 11:55 AM	Hey Drekmonger, actually I like your idea, mind if I one day base a campaign on my interpretion of this baseline?
drekmonger 06-03-04, 12:43 AM	Thanks. I tried for the wierdest thing I could think of that would still be DnD, hoping to catch someone's eye. No skin off my back if anyone wants to use the idea in a real game.
Goblin-Crunch Cerial 06-04-04, 11:06 AM	You know it's funny... After seeing Ebberon setting slowly develope through Dragon I realized my idea was weak... But to this day I'd love to know how far my submission got. All I can think of is someone reading the very first sentence and tossing it into the rejected pile... But still I had a fun-@ss-time writting it tho...:D