A Question about the Player's Guide to Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Question about the Player's Guide to Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Joseph_Silver
06-26-06, 11:32 PM I have a question about the Player's Guide to Eberron. Does it contain all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting minus the inconveniently placed spoilers? Does it have information on all of the classes, feats, spells, etc. already printed in the Eberron Campaign Setting?

If so, I will buy this book ASAP. One thing I hated about playing in Eberron with my last group was that all of the spoilers were placed in the areas that players are most likely to look at, which was quite stupid, IMHO.
treehouse916
06-26-06, 11:52 PM Mostly no. The PGtE is sort of an encylopedia of Eberron lore reprinted for players, but it doesn't contain reprinted mechanical information from the ECS (no reprinted artificer, no reprinted rules on action points, no reprinted feats...)

And there are some spoilers in there, mostly in the Knowledge bars, which occupy every page and are impossible to miss, but I don't recall anything too earth-shattering.

Personally, I liked the product, what little I saw of it. I bought it and immediately lent it out to my new players so they could familiarize themselves with the setting. I trust them not to metagame (we are a pretty tight group though), so I don't mind them learning a few things out-of-game.

In other words, I haven't actually held the book (though I own it) for months, so my knowledge of it is a bit rusty. Judging by the depth that the current book-borrower has been adding to his character and his in-game interactions lately, I'd say the product works.
poisondusk
06-27-06, 06:58 AM the book is rife with spoiler, almost moreso than the ECS. I was hoping for something like you mentioned, that the players could use without gaining the dark secrets. Then I realized, my players are good enough players that they won't use that knowledge, and I can drop hints about things that will scare the crap out of them.

I liked PGtE, don't get me wrong. It has a lot of good information in it. What I did is I took it and gave each character a compilation of what they knew about the world based on their knowledge abilities.
Daemion
06-27-06, 09:19 AM The Players Guide contains all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting PLUS the inconveniently placed spoilers.

I still recommend it to all of my players, but really, is there no information that is sacred in Eberron?
Joseph_Silver
06-27-06, 10:51 PM Okay, I'm getting conflicting replies here.

Does it or does it not have all of the rules in the Eberron Campaign Setting?
Flame_Drake
06-27-06, 11:00 PM No, the mechanics of ECS are not included - PGtE is based around fluff for the most part.

Drake
ArcTan
06-27-06, 11:07 PM The Players Guide contains all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting PLUS the inconveniently placed spoilers.

I still recommend it to all of my players, but really, is there no information that is sacred in Eberron?

Yes. There's *plenty* of sacred information, which is information that you've never seen and will never see in publication at all. The cause of the Morning. The powers of the Mark of Death. And so on.

We've had this argument before, but it's my conviction that the only "DM-only" material should be material the DM comes up with himself.

And, as others have pointed out, it *does not* contain all of the information in the ECS. Most notably, it has absolutely none of the ECS's crunch -- no stats for the artificer class or the new races. And you can piece together the basic nature of the setting by reading it straight through, but it's like trying to learn American history by reading, in alphabetical order, the entries in the glossary at the back of the textbook.

The ECS is required reading for anyone who's going to play Eberron; the PGtE is only a supplement.
Edymnion
06-28-06, 12:43 AM Yes, it is *almost* entirely mechanics free, which I have to give WotC a major kudos for.

But no, it has lots of "secrets" in it too.
Which really has to be expected. The idea that WotC could do anything but lose it's shirt on a "DM Only" book is pretty laughable. I mean, even as playtested, a DM Only type book would cut out 80% of the buyers. Given the group sizes I've seen, its probably closer to 95% of everyone that buys D&D books would be in the "you're not supposed to buy this" crowd.

Nobody aims a product at only 5% of the potential audience, at least nobody that wants to make a profit off of it.
yrogerg
06-29-06, 11:22 AM I have a question about the Player's Guide to Eberron. Does it contain all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting minus the inconveniently placed spoilers? Does it have information on all of the classes, feats, spells, etc. already printed in the Eberron Campaign Setting?

If so, I will buy this book ASAP. One thing I hated about playing in Eberron with my last group was that all of the spoilers were placed in the areas that players are most likely to look at, which was quite stupid, IMHO.

No, the inconveniently placed spoilers are now more prominently displayed. Where were your players looking, though? Powergroups was obviously spoilerish, but the rundown of the new races and classes were all okay. Religions are tough because you need to know enough spoilers to pick a religion, but other than that, I thought they weren't muddled together too much.

Anyway, PGtE, in addition to prominently displayed spoilers, is a lot more like the Eberron DM's Guide to Every Other D&D Sourcebook Ever Made. Basically, the authors took the line from the ECS, "If it has a place in D&D, it has a place in Eberron", and then used this book as an opportunity to identify each and every one of these 'places'. Where by 'places', I mean geographical locations. When we were lucky, they even gave us a single sentence mentioning how a particular race interacted with others.

No, it's not my favorite book. I think the writers suffered from a bit of "put everything Psionic in Sarlona and related to the Quori"-itis, and a lot of "make it more like standard D&D"-itis, at least as far as the dragons are concerned. I also think any DM with half an imagination could have come up with considerably more interesting places to put a large portion of the material presented, or come up with better plot hooks based on other locations. I've heard about a half-dozen places for Elans in Eberron that are a)at least as coherent as their presentation in the PGtE, b)provide at least as interesting hooks, and c)just feel generally more satisfying and completely thought-out inclusions.

That said, if you are looking for a place to put material from all of the Completes, the additional races from XPH, Races of the Wild, Magic of Incarnum, Races of Stone, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, any and all of the myriad human, halfling, gnome, elf, or dwarven subraces, want Garuumsh to show up as a god worshiped by Orcs for no particular reason, think Dragons should hoard loot and eat livestock rather than anything intellegent, or anything like that, then the PGtE is an *okay* starting-point from which to come up with your own (and likely far better) ideas. However, I think the book was made particularly for the large preportion of gamers who won't :censored: unless there's a sourcebook telling them to.

It has a few gems, but there's so much :censored: to sift through to find them, that I don't think it's worth it. I did like the treatment of Levistus, and I plan on using that in a future game I run. The rest, though, I could take or leave.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Joseph_Silver 06-26-06, 11:32 PM	I have a question about the Player's Guide to Eberron. Does it contain all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting minus the inconveniently placed spoilers? Does it have information on all of the classes, feats, spells, etc. already printed in the Eberron Campaign Setting? If so, I will buy this book ASAP. One thing I hated about playing in Eberron with my last group was that all of the spoilers were placed in the areas that players are most likely to look at, which was quite stupid, IMHO.
treehouse916 06-26-06, 11:52 PM	Mostly no. The PGtE is sort of an encylopedia of Eberron lore reprinted for players, but it doesn't contain reprinted mechanical information from the ECS (no reprinted artificer, no reprinted rules on action points, no reprinted feats...) And there are some spoilers in there, mostly in the Knowledge bars, which occupy every page and are impossible to miss, but I don't recall anything too earth-shattering. Personally, I liked the product, what little I saw of it. I bought it and immediately lent it out to my new players so they could familiarize themselves with the setting. I trust them not to metagame (we are a pretty tight group though), so I don't mind them learning a few things out-of-game. In other words, I haven't actually held the book (though I own it) for months, so my knowledge of it is a bit rusty. Judging by the depth that the current book-borrower has been adding to his character and his in-game interactions lately, I'd say the product works.
poisondusk 06-27-06, 06:58 AM	the book is rife with spoiler, almost moreso than the ECS. I was hoping for something like you mentioned, that the players could use without gaining the dark secrets. Then I realized, my players are good enough players that they won't use that knowledge, and I can drop hints about things that will scare the crap out of them. I liked PGtE, don't get me wrong. It has a lot of good information in it. What I did is I took it and gave each character a compilation of what they knew about the world based on their knowledge abilities.
Daemion 06-27-06, 09:19 AM	The Players Guide contains all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting PLUS the inconveniently placed spoilers. I still recommend it to all of my players, but really, is there no information that is sacred in Eberron?
Joseph_Silver 06-27-06, 10:51 PM	Okay, I'm getting conflicting replies here. Does it or does it not have all of the rules in the Eberron Campaign Setting?
Flame_Drake 06-27-06, 11:00 PM	No, the mechanics of ECS are not included - PGtE is based around fluff for the most part. Drake
ArcTan 06-27-06, 11:07 PM	The Players Guide contains all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting PLUS the inconveniently placed spoilers. I still recommend it to all of my players, but really, is there no information that is sacred in Eberron? Yes. There's plenty of sacred information, which is information that you've never seen and will never see in publication at all. The cause of the Morning. The powers of the Mark of Death. And so on. We've had this argument before, but it's my conviction that the only "DM-only" material should be material the DM comes up with himself. And, as others have pointed out, it does not contain all of the information in the ECS. Most notably, it has absolutely none of the ECS's crunch -- no stats for the artificer class or the new races. And you can piece together the basic nature of the setting by reading it straight through, but it's like trying to learn American history by reading, in alphabetical order, the entries in the glossary at the back of the textbook. The ECS is required reading for anyone who's going to play Eberron; the PGtE is only a supplement.
Edymnion 06-28-06, 12:43 AM	Yes, it is almost entirely mechanics free, which I have to give WotC a major kudos for. But no, it has lots of "secrets" in it too. Which really has to be expected. The idea that WotC could do anything but lose it's shirt on a "DM Only" book is pretty laughable. I mean, even as playtested, a DM Only type book would cut out 80% of the buyers. Given the group sizes I've seen, its probably closer to 95% of everyone that buys D&D books would be in the "you're not supposed to buy this" crowd. Nobody aims a product at only 5% of the potential audience, at least nobody that wants to make a profit off of it.
yrogerg 06-29-06, 11:22 AM	I have a question about the Player's Guide to Eberron. Does it contain all of the information in the Eberron Campaign Setting minus the inconveniently placed spoilers? Does it have information on all of the classes, feats, spells, etc. already printed in the Eberron Campaign Setting? If so, I will buy this book ASAP. One thing I hated about playing in Eberron with my last group was that all of the spoilers were placed in the areas that players are most likely to look at, which was quite stupid, IMHO. No, the inconveniently placed spoilers are now more prominently displayed. Where were your players looking, though? Powergroups was obviously spoilerish, but the rundown of the new races and classes were all okay. Religions are tough because you need to know enough spoilers to pick a religion, but other than that, I thought they weren't muddled together too much. Anyway, PGtE, in addition to prominently displayed spoilers, is a lot more like the Eberron DM's Guide to Every Other D&D Sourcebook Ever Made. Basically, the authors took the line from the ECS, "If it has a place in D&D, it has a place in Eberron", and then used this book as an opportunity to identify each and every one of these 'places'. Where by 'places', I mean geographical locations. When we were lucky, they even gave us a single sentence mentioning how a particular race interacted with others. No, it's not my favorite book. I think the writers suffered from a bit of "put everything Psionic in Sarlona and related to the Quori"-itis, and a lot of "make it more like standard D&D"-itis, at least as far as the dragons are concerned. I also think any DM with half an imagination could have come up with considerably more interesting places to put a large portion of the material presented, or come up with better plot hooks based on other locations. I've heard about a half-dozen places for Elans in Eberron that are a)at least as coherent as their presentation in the PGtE, b)provide at least as interesting hooks, and c)just feel generally more satisfying and completely thought-out inclusions. That said, if you are looking for a place to put material from all of the Completes, the additional races from XPH, Races of the Wild, Magic of Incarnum, Races of Stone, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, any and all of the myriad human, halfling, gnome, elf, or dwarven subraces, want Garuumsh to show up as a god worshiped by Orcs for no particular reason, think Dragons should hoard loot and eat livestock rather than anything intellegent, or anything like that, then the PGtE is an okay starting-point from which to come up with your own (and likely far better) ideas. However, I think the book was made particularly for the large preportion of gamers who won't :censored: unless there's a sourcebook telling them to. It has a few gems, but there's so much :censored: to sift through to find them, that I don't think it's worth it. I did like the treatment of Levistus, and I plan on using that in a future game I run. The rest, though, I could take or leave.