A Ranger in Eberron (How would you handle this)? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Ranger in Eberron (How would you handle this)? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seth of the First Brigade
08-09-06, 10:47 AM I currently have playing in my group 3 PC's. I intend to take them to epic levels within the campaign. In addition to this I am currently entertaining the idea of allowing them after these PC's have retired, to play their children. Thinking along the lines that these characters main goal was to prepare the way for their children, and that the true epic goals would be accomplished by these children. Don’t get me wrong, mom and dad are going to do some pretty darn epic things. Maybe even to the point of returning as NPC's in the next campaign and actually dying to truly prepare the way for their children.

But here is my dilemma, the 3 PC's that I have are playing the following classes.

1. Samurai

2. Ranger

3. Druid

I have individual coolness and epic level plot lines for the Samurai and the Druid because in my mind they are absolutes. Meaning, one is a fighter, he will simply become the MAN (Big time bad boy on the battle field). The druid is the embodiment of nature and its might, again an easy story of epic proportion to write for this character. I can write amazing things for both of these characters without fear of one overshadowing or out shining the other. But with the Ranger I am at a loss.

The Ranger is a female 3rd or 4th generation Khorvarian Elf, with an interest in learning more about her Aerenal ancestridge and a hatred towards the giants of Xendrik' who initially enslaved her people (she took Giants as her favored enemy). However I know the player well enough to know that once she begins to find out about her Aerenal heritage she is not going to like it. I believe she will be turned off by the whole deathless thing, she may like the Valenar, but there is no guarantee there either. I really don’t know what to do with her character that will allow her to shine without taking away from the others because in many regards I see her as a hybrid of the other 2 PC's, the only difference being that she took the Bow feats instead of Two-Weapon Style Fighting, and she will never be as powerful as the Druid in regards to the divine power of Nature. The thing is, is that I don’t want her to feel as though she is in the shadow of the other 2 PC's as the game progresses; never really having that place where only she excels. Right now she's the main one laying it down when it comes to combat, but I know that in time that will change as the as the story progresses and the rest of the party gains levels.

I know this is a lot but any ideas would be most appreciated. What should I do?

PS: The first part of this post was to give a general overview of the situation. Hope it wasn’t to longwinded. :)
Madhouse
08-09-06, 11:28 AM Hello again Seth! :D

Although I don't want to invalidate your concerns, I do think that your misgivings may be a little premature. Unless I've missed something in your description of the PCs, there's nothing to suggest that the Ranger will always be nothing but a Ranger. Multi-classing can lead to a lot of additional and unforeseen options.

It's also important to remember that the characters aren't in competition. There's nothing wrong with being a supporting character (unless, of course, the player doesn't like that), and a well-rounded support character can really make the difference in situations where brute force (the Samurai) or natural magic (the Druid) aren't necessarily the answer.

That said, I do understand your concerns, so here are some suggestions:

1. Suggest that she take a few Rogue levels over the course of her career. This can open up all new vistas for the character and gives her an area of expertise that neither of the others can match.

2. Plan for the revelation of the Undying and don't pre-suppose that she'll be turned off by it. If she is, that's fine. That can easily develop into its own storyline, depending on how she wants to take it. Be fluid and tailor your campaign (at least as it applies to her) to the motives she develops.

3. Focus on the giant angle. If she's anti-giant, she could lead an expedition against the giants. No matter how tough a fighter-type is, they simply can't match a Ranger fighting a favoured enemy. This gives her a great opportunity to shine and allows her to show off her expertise in hunting giants and knowing their ways.

4. Talk to her. This probably should have been my first suggestion, but I think it's a better option to end the post on. Tell her your misgivings (without giving away too much) and see what she says. Maybe she's ok with playing a support role. Maybe she has her own ideas on what she wants to do with the character. Listen to her goals and see how you can fit them into your campaign. You'd be amazed how much easier it is to come up with ideas when you get the players to do your thinking for you. ;)

I hope this helps! Let me know how things progress...I'd love to hear about it!

Cheers!
DoveArrow
08-09-06, 06:25 PM I know the player well enough to know that once she begins to find out about her Aerenal heritage she is not going to like it.

I have a hard time understanding this. If the player has already suggested an interest in exploring her Aereni heritage, then logic seems to suggest that she knows something about the Deathless and would interested in exploring that as an option. However, if you're worried that she won't enjoy it, politely nudge her towards exploring her Valenarian heritage instead. Valenar elves are devoted to ancestor worship, but not in the way that the elves of Aerenal are. Rather than bringing their greatest warriors back as Deathless elves, the Valenar elves believe that their warrior ancestors continue to live on through heroic deeds performed by those that are still alive. I think this might be a better way to go anyway, since Valenar is located in Khorvaire, and the Valenar elves have a strong martial culture, thus tying into your player's character class.

If you want some more information on the elves of Valenar, take a look at the following dragonshards:

The Elves of Valenar Part 1 (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041004a)
The Elves of Valenar Part II (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041011a)
*R*
08-09-06, 06:50 PM I know this may only shift the concern in another direction, but the Valenar Elf PrC, Revenant Blade (PgtE) is nothing short of awesome. The CW Samurai wasn't very optimal to begin with, but the Revenant Blade actually puts most melee-centric PrCs to shame.

Edit:
Note: I mention that the (Complete Warrior) Samurai is weak, but only in relative power. This is because my primary haunt on these boards is the Character Optimization board, where Clerics and Druids terrify gods, angry men shatter planets, and a 5th level Kobold became the most powerful being in the multiverse. Still, considering just the material in the PHB2, Fighter 20 is still mechanically stronger, more versatile, and more enduring than Samurai 20.
Thwyvylyn
08-13-06, 02:58 PM I know this may only shift the concern in another direction, but the Valenar Elf PrC, Revenant Blade (PgtE) is nothing short of awesome. The CW Samurai wasn't very optimal to begin with, but the Revenant Blade actually puts most melee-centric PrCs to shame.

Edit:
Note: I mention that the (Complete Warrior) Samurai is weak, but only in relative power. This is because my primary haunt on these boards is the Character Optimization board, where Clerics and Druids terrify gods, angry men shatter planets, and a 5th level Kobold became the most powerful being in the multiverse. Still, considering just the material in the PHB2, Fighter 20 is still mechanically stronger, more versatile, and more enduring than Samurai 20.

IIRC a Knight 20 is more powerful than a Samurai 20
exploding_brain
08-14-06, 11:05 AM Try looking at the ranger from a different point of view. Instead of a hybrid of Druid and Fighter type, look at the ranger as the ultimate DnD embodiment of the hunter.

Stealth skills, track, favored enemies, these are all things that the ranger has that the Druid and the Samurai lack. Play up those abilities. Also the spot/listen stuff. Druids can be better at spot listen than Rangers, but they often aren't, so play that up too, if it helps.

Make it an important part of the adventures to find the enemy, and helpful to be able to sneak up on them and attack from hiding. Also, make sure that the Ranger gets to use her favored enemy bonuses a reasonable amount of the time.
Naudachu
08-14-06, 12:12 PM If she doesn't end up liking her Aereni heritage, then she could discover the story of the Phiarlan elves escaping persecution from Aerenal to Khorvaire. This story echos the elves escape from Xen'drik and may strike a chord with the character.

It may be possible that she has a late blooming Mark of Shadow. Or if she had no connection to the House, she may have had the Mark laying dormant on her waiting to be awakened (takes the Feat): a mysterious birthmark.

Or she could build on her hunting ability joining the House Tharashk bounty hunter guild. And there are many PrCs that could shape the character in different directions as well as someone said multiclassing.
Wolfwood2
08-14-06, 12:40 PM The Ranger is a female 3rd or 4th generation Khorvarian Elf, with an interest in learning more about her Aerenal ancestridge and a hatred towards the giants of Xendrik' who initially enslaved her people (she took Giants as her favored enemy). However I know the player well enough to know that once she begins to find out about her Aerenal heritage she is not going to like it. I believe she will be turned off by the whole deathless thing, she may like the Valenar, but there is no guarantee there either. I really don’t know what to do with her character that will allow her to shine without taking away from the others because in many regards I see her as a hybrid of the other 2 PC's, the only difference being that she took the Bow feats instead of Two-Weapon Style Fighting, and she will never be as powerful as the Druid in regards to the divine power of Nature. The thing is, is that I don’t want her to feel as though she is in the shadow of the other 2 PC's as the game progresses; never really having that place where only she excels. Right now she's the main one laying it down when it comes to combat, but I know that in time that will change as the as the story progresses and the rest of the party gains levels.

I know this is a lot but any ideas would be most appreciated. What should I do?

I am going to assume that the player stays with the ranger class for the long haul.

Stealth. Rangers have Hide and Move Silently as class skills. The Ranger can creep into the perfect sniping position, take down an enemy from a distance, and then vanish back into the wilderness. (Encourage her to take some Climb ranks as well.) No one sees her coming. No one can stop her.

Targeted death. The Samurai is the terror on the battlefield, fighting a hundred men at once. The Ranger, however, is the terror of the individual. There is little on Eberron she cannot track down and kill once she catches them sufficiently far from shelter. A high level ranger can hit anyone not completely under cover. (Don't you live Improved Precise Shot?)

Bane of Giants. The Ranger can become legendary as the most fearsome nemesis the race of giants has known in hundreds of years.
Seth of the First Brigade
08-14-06, 06:35 PM WOW!!! Everyone. You guys/gals are giving me some amzing ideas for this character, and I really appreciate it. I just wanted to say thanks. So....

Thank You!

Sincerely,
Seth
Siran Dunmorgan
08-14-06, 07:05 PM Another point, by the way, is to recall that the Aereni are but one elvish culture: the other, the Tairnadal, are themselves divided into three factions. One of these, the Valaes Tairn, are well-represented by what we think of as Valenar, though a great many of the Valaes Tairn continue to reside on the island-continent.

Another faction, little mentioned on these boards, is the Draelus Tairn, those whose commitment to battle is to defeat the dragons of Argonnessen.

And finally, and perhaps most interestingly for the character under consideration, is the Silaes Tairn, that faction of the Tairnadal who dedicate themselves to the destruction of those who enslaved the elves of old, and a return to the original elven homelands in Xen'drik.

Think of a primarily warrior culture similar to the Valenar, except that instead of glory in battle, they seek to honor their ancestors by taking back what was taken from them, eighty thousand years ago.

—Siran Dunmorgan

P. S. No, I'm not making this up for the convenience of the character or the Dungeon Master, though I admit to having done so in the past (c.f. the Paladins of the Dragon Below). In this case, the three Tairnadal factions are found described in the EBERRON Campaign Setting.

Disclaimer: All of my elven characters in DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Online: Stormreach bear the surname "of the Silaes Tairn."
mhacdebhandia
08-14-06, 07:29 PM It sounds like this ranger PC might be interested in joining - or at least working with - the Silaes Tairn, in their reclamation of Xen'drik.
Seth of the First Brigade
08-15-06, 01:10 AM It sounds like this ranger PC might be interested in joining - or at least working with - the Silaes Tairn, in their reclamation of Xen'drik.

Indeed... :)
Splendide
08-15-06, 01:24 AM My suggestion would be the following.

Digging into her Aerenal ancestry, she finds a key ancestor who got kicked out of Aerenal and disgraced his family in the process. He was uncovered for secretly talking to <enemies(giants/dragons/humans)> during the height of battle. While he claimed he was acting in the elves' best interests, he was hounded off the continent. Rumours persisted that he made it to Khorvaire.

Now it just so happens he was also a skilled archer, and was buried both with his memoirs and his bow. All the PC has to do now is find the grave (clues could be delivered through dreams), and BOOM - Weapon of Legacy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seth of the First Brigade 08-09-06, 10:47 AM	I currently have playing in my group 3 PC's. I intend to take them to epic levels within the campaign. In addition to this I am currently entertaining the idea of allowing them after these PC's have retired, to play their children. Thinking along the lines that these characters main goal was to prepare the way for their children, and that the true epic goals would be accomplished by these children. Don’t get me wrong, mom and dad are going to do some pretty darn epic things. Maybe even to the point of returning as NPC's in the next campaign and actually dying to truly prepare the way for their children. But here is my dilemma, the 3 PC's that I have are playing the following classes. 1. Samurai 2. Ranger 3. Druid I have individual coolness and epic level plot lines for the Samurai and the Druid because in my mind they are absolutes. Meaning, one is a fighter, he will simply become the MAN (Big time bad boy on the battle field). The druid is the embodiment of nature and its might, again an easy story of epic proportion to write for this character. I can write amazing things for both of these characters without fear of one overshadowing or out shining the other. But with the Ranger I am at a loss. The Ranger is a female 3rd or 4th generation Khorvarian Elf, with an interest in learning more about her Aerenal ancestridge and a hatred towards the giants of Xendrik' who initially enslaved her people (she took Giants as her favored enemy). However I know the player well enough to know that once she begins to find out about her Aerenal heritage she is not going to like it. I believe she will be turned off by the whole deathless thing, she may like the Valenar, but there is no guarantee there either. I really don’t know what to do with her character that will allow her to shine without taking away from the others because in many regards I see her as a hybrid of the other 2 PC's, the only difference being that she took the Bow feats instead of Two-Weapon Style Fighting, and she will never be as powerful as the Druid in regards to the divine power of Nature. The thing is, is that I don’t want her to feel as though she is in the shadow of the other 2 PC's as the game progresses; never really having that place where only she excels. Right now she's the main one laying it down when it comes to combat, but I know that in time that will change as the as the story progresses and the rest of the party gains levels. I know this is a lot but any ideas would be most appreciated. What should I do? PS: The first part of this post was to give a general overview of the situation. Hope it wasn’t to longwinded. :)
Madhouse 08-09-06, 11:28 AM	Hello again Seth! :D Although I don't want to invalidate your concerns, I do think that your misgivings may be a little premature. Unless I've missed something in your description of the PCs, there's nothing to suggest that the Ranger will always be nothing but a Ranger. Multi-classing can lead to a lot of additional and unforeseen options. It's also important to remember that the characters aren't in competition. There's nothing wrong with being a supporting character (unless, of course, the player doesn't like that), and a well-rounded support character can really make the difference in situations where brute force (the Samurai) or natural magic (the Druid) aren't necessarily the answer. That said, I do understand your concerns, so here are some suggestions: 1. Suggest that she take a few Rogue levels over the course of her career. This can open up all new vistas for the character and gives her an area of expertise that neither of the others can match. 2. Plan for the revelation of the Undying and don't pre-suppose that she'll be turned off by it. If she is, that's fine. That can easily develop into its own storyline, depending on how she wants to take it. Be fluid and tailor your campaign (at least as it applies to her) to the motives she develops. 3. Focus on the giant angle. If she's anti-giant, she could lead an expedition against the giants. No matter how tough a fighter-type is, they simply can't match a Ranger fighting a favoured enemy. This gives her a great opportunity to shine and allows her to show off her expertise in hunting giants and knowing their ways. 4. Talk to her. This probably should have been my first suggestion, but I think it's a better option to end the post on. Tell her your misgivings (without giving away too much) and see what she says. Maybe she's ok with playing a support role. Maybe she has her own ideas on what she wants to do with the character. Listen to her goals and see how you can fit them into your campaign. You'd be amazed how much easier it is to come up with ideas when you get the players to do your thinking for you. ;) I hope this helps! Let me know how things progress...I'd love to hear about it! Cheers!
DoveArrow 08-09-06, 06:25 PM	I know the player well enough to know that once she begins to find out about her Aerenal heritage she is not going to like it. I have a hard time understanding this. If the player has already suggested an interest in exploring her Aereni heritage, then logic seems to suggest that she knows something about the Deathless and would interested in exploring that as an option. However, if you're worried that she won't enjoy it, politely nudge her towards exploring her Valenarian heritage instead. Valenar elves are devoted to ancestor worship, but not in the way that the elves of Aerenal are. Rather than bringing their greatest warriors back as Deathless elves, the Valenar elves believe that their warrior ancestors continue to live on through heroic deeds performed by those that are still alive. I think this might be a better way to go anyway, since Valenar is located in Khorvaire, and the Valenar elves have a strong martial culture, thus tying into your player's character class. If you want some more information on the elves of Valenar, take a look at the following dragonshards: The Elves of Valenar Part 1 (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041004a) The Elves of Valenar Part II (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041011a)
R 08-09-06, 06:50 PM	I know this may only shift the concern in another direction, but the Valenar Elf PrC, Revenant Blade (PgtE) is nothing short of awesome. The CW Samurai wasn't very optimal to begin with, but the Revenant Blade actually puts most melee-centric PrCs to shame. Edit: Note: I mention that the (Complete Warrior) Samurai is weak, but only in relative power. This is because my primary haunt on these boards is the Character Optimization board, where Clerics and Druids terrify gods, angry men shatter planets, and a 5th level Kobold became the most powerful being in the multiverse. Still, considering just the material in the PHB2, Fighter 20 is still mechanically stronger, more versatile, and more enduring than Samurai 20.
Thwyvylyn 08-13-06, 02:58 PM	I know this may only shift the concern in another direction, but the Valenar Elf PrC, Revenant Blade (PgtE) is nothing short of awesome. The CW Samurai wasn't very optimal to begin with, but the Revenant Blade actually puts most melee-centric PrCs to shame. Edit: Note: I mention that the (Complete Warrior) Samurai is weak, but only in relative power. This is because my primary haunt on these boards is the Character Optimization board, where Clerics and Druids terrify gods, angry men shatter planets, and a 5th level Kobold became the most powerful being in the multiverse. Still, considering just the material in the PHB2, Fighter 20 is still mechanically stronger, more versatile, and more enduring than Samurai 20. IIRC a Knight 20 is more powerful than a Samurai 20
exploding_brain 08-14-06, 11:05 AM	Try looking at the ranger from a different point of view. Instead of a hybrid of Druid and Fighter type, look at the ranger as the ultimate DnD embodiment of the hunter. Stealth skills, track, favored enemies, these are all things that the ranger has that the Druid and the Samurai lack. Play up those abilities. Also the spot/listen stuff. Druids can be better at spot listen than Rangers, but they often aren't, so play that up too, if it helps. Make it an important part of the adventures to find the enemy, and helpful to be able to sneak up on them and attack from hiding. Also, make sure that the Ranger gets to use her favored enemy bonuses a reasonable amount of the time.
Naudachu 08-14-06, 12:12 PM	If she doesn't end up liking her Aereni heritage, then she could discover the story of the Phiarlan elves escaping persecution from Aerenal to Khorvaire. This story echos the elves escape from Xen'drik and may strike a chord with the character. It may be possible that she has a late blooming Mark of Shadow. Or if she had no connection to the House, she may have had the Mark laying dormant on her waiting to be awakened (takes the Feat): a mysterious birthmark. Or she could build on her hunting ability joining the House Tharashk bounty hunter guild. And there are many PrCs that could shape the character in different directions as well as someone said multiclassing.
Wolfwood2 08-14-06, 12:40 PM	The Ranger is a female 3rd or 4th generation Khorvarian Elf, with an interest in learning more about her Aerenal ancestridge and a hatred towards the giants of Xendrik' who initially enslaved her people (she took Giants as her favored enemy). However I know the player well enough to know that once she begins to find out about her Aerenal heritage she is not going to like it. I believe she will be turned off by the whole deathless thing, she may like the Valenar, but there is no guarantee there either. I really don’t know what to do with her character that will allow her to shine without taking away from the others because in many regards I see her as a hybrid of the other 2 PC's, the only difference being that she took the Bow feats instead of Two-Weapon Style Fighting, and she will never be as powerful as the Druid in regards to the divine power of Nature. The thing is, is that I don’t want her to feel as though she is in the shadow of the other 2 PC's as the game progresses; never really having that place where only she excels. Right now she's the main one laying it down when it comes to combat, but I know that in time that will change as the as the story progresses and the rest of the party gains levels. I know this is a lot but any ideas would be most appreciated. What should I do? I am going to assume that the player stays with the ranger class for the long haul. Stealth. Rangers have Hide and Move Silently as class skills. The Ranger can creep into the perfect sniping position, take down an enemy from a distance, and then vanish back into the wilderness. (Encourage her to take some Climb ranks as well.) No one sees her coming. No one can stop her. Targeted death. The Samurai is the terror on the battlefield, fighting a hundred men at once. The Ranger, however, is the terror of the individual. There is little on Eberron she cannot track down and kill once she catches them sufficiently far from shelter. A high level ranger can hit anyone not completely under cover. (Don't you live Improved Precise Shot?) Bane of Giants. The Ranger can become legendary as the most fearsome nemesis the race of giants has known in hundreds of years.
Seth of the First Brigade 08-14-06, 06:35 PM	WOW!!! Everyone. You guys/gals are giving me some amzing ideas for this character, and I really appreciate it. I just wanted to say thanks. So.... Thank You! Sincerely, Seth
Siran Dunmorgan 08-14-06, 07:05 PM	Another point, by the way, is to recall that the Aereni are but one elvish culture: the other, the Tairnadal, are themselves divided into three factions. One of these, the Valaes Tairn, are well-represented by what we think of as Valenar, though a great many of the Valaes Tairn continue to reside on the island-continent. Another faction, little mentioned on these boards, is the Draelus Tairn, those whose commitment to battle is to defeat the dragons of Argonnessen. And finally, and perhaps most interestingly for the character under consideration, is the Silaes Tairn, that faction of the Tairnadal who dedicate themselves to the destruction of those who enslaved the elves of old, and a return to the original elven homelands in Xen'drik. Think of a primarily warrior culture similar to the Valenar, except that instead of glory in battle, they seek to honor their ancestors by taking back what was taken from them, eighty thousand years ago. —Siran Dunmorgan P. S. No, I'm not making this up for the convenience of the character or the Dungeon Master, though I admit to having done so in the past (c.f. the Paladins of the Dragon Below). In this case, the three Tairnadal factions are found described in the EBERRON Campaign Setting. Disclaimer: All of my elven characters in DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Online: Stormreach bear the surname "of the Silaes Tairn."
mhacdebhandia 08-14-06, 07:29 PM	It sounds like this ranger PC might be interested in joining - or at least working with - the Silaes Tairn, in their reclamation of Xen'drik.
Seth of the First Brigade 08-15-06, 01:10 AM	It sounds like this ranger PC might be interested in joining - or at least working with - the Silaes Tairn, in their reclamation of Xen'drik. Indeed... :)
Splendide 08-15-06, 01:24 AM	My suggestion would be the following. Digging into her Aerenal ancestry, she finds a key ancestor who got kicked out of Aerenal and disgraced his family in the process. He was uncovered for secretly talking to <enemies(giants/dragons/humans)> during the height of battle. While he claimed he was acting in the elves' best interests, he was hounded off the continent. Rumours persisted that he made it to Khorvaire. Now it just so happens he was also a skilled archer, and was buried both with his memoirs and his bow. All the PC has to do now is find the grave (clues could be delivered through dreams), and BOOM - Weapon of Legacy.