A Way to END your Map Complaints! [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Way to END your Map Complaints! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Buffetassassin
07-03-04, 02:55 PM Yes Yes Yes we have all heard the complaints. Over thousands of threads and posts we hear them. "The maps for Eberron are incomplete." or "The map of Eberron is not detailed enough."
Now that the new Dungeon Magazine has come out, and people are still displeased, we have to ask ourselves this question: Why not stop spending our time complaining about the maps, and simply add details to the map ourselves?

I am making it a game night activity to take sharpies of different colors and mark in the lightning rail lines, trade lines, towns, cities, and important sites to the poster map in the Dungeon Magazine.

It isn't difficult to do. Just look through the individual maps and translate them onto the big map. If you spend a good hour on the map, you will have a big map that is as detailed as YOU need, and you can stop making "The Map Sucks" threads.

I think we all need to think about how great the setting is and realize that we are getting irritated about a minor issue.
Hanuman47
07-03-04, 03:14 PM As far as I have seen, everyone who has spoken out about the maps acknowledges that the setting is great. That's why they're so irritated - WotC did such a great job, except on a fairly important detail. And I suspect that many would rather have something professionally done by a graphics department with advanced equipment rather than a hand drawn job which could be messy.

On the other hand, this might be just the right kind of thing to give to the players--after all, how many cartographers in Khorvaire have access to advanced graphics software and publishing equipment?
Zelgadas
07-03-04, 04:22 PM I was actually thinking of getting some sort of dry-erasable plastic cover for my poster map. That way, I could draw on the relevant bits when I need to, and the players will only see what I want them to see.
Taurren
07-03-04, 04:30 PM Hanuman, you are right in that the vast majority of those who are complaining about the poor maps are also staunch supporters of the setting and are rightfully irritated that despite paying $40, and buying the special Ebberon issue of Dungeon that they still dont have a map of Khorvaire which is accurate or complete.

Buffet, if you wish to scribble on your maps, go for it. I think its an interesting idea and if it improves your game, good for you!

As for me its just disheartening that despite all the complaints, on this board and others, that the only response I've read from WotC is a the statement that the players don't need a map with borders and cities on it, as there are no actual national borders in Eberron.

What type of response is that? Have they even read the book?

An accurate map that lists cities, forests, mountains, rivers borders, and roads should not be something that players have to beg for. This should have been a cornerstone of the information given to the players.

Eberron is a great setting, and you are right that the lack of useful maps is an irritating problem that can be worked around. Its just that I never thought such a professionally done setting would have such a glaring and obvious error, and that no one from WotC would acknowledge it, talk about it, or try to do anything to fix it.
JustKim
07-03-04, 07:01 PM As for me its just disheartening that despite all the complaints, on this board and others, that the only response I've read from WotC is a the statement that the players don't need a map with borders and cities on it, as there are no actual national borders in Eberron.
I found that very confusing since there are numerous references to borders in the book. There are skirmishes held on borders, borders defined by landmarks that correspond to how the nations are separated in the book, and traveling papers for "anyone who travels across national borders". For a world without borders, an exceptional amount of effort was put into establishing that there are borders.
MavrickWeirdo
07-03-04, 11:39 PM Originally posted by Taurren

An accurate map that lists cities, forests, mountains, rivers borders, and roads should not be something that players have to beg for. This should have been a cornerstone of the information given to the players.

I have a slight disagreement with this statment. Accurate maps should be a cornerstone for DM's.

Accurate maps ARE something PLAYERS have to beg (the DM) for.

However it can be difficult to keep published materials out of the hands of players at times.

This is the reason that there is no "Planes Calendar" so that a DM can have planes remote or coterminous whenever they want.

Ambiguity is the bane of "rules-lawyers"

IMHO of course
kildaere007
07-04-04, 12:32 AM I am in the process of making a complete map...see the thread here: MAP

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=267732

It is almost finished (I said 7/6 but I will have it ready tonight....I just need to wait to hear from Johnny (who is out of town) so that he can host the map.
Zelgadas
07-04-04, 06:36 PM Originally posted by Buffetassassin

I am making it a game night activity to take sharpies of different colors and mark in the lightning rail lines, trade lines, towns, cities, and important sites to the poster map in the Dungeon Magazine.

It isn't difficult to do. Just look through the individual maps and translate them onto the big map. If you spend a good hour on the map, you will have a big map that is as detailed as YOU need, and you can stop making "The Map Sucks" threads.

I think we all need to think about how great the setting is and realize that we are getting irritated about a minor issue.

I just followed this advice, and I must say I'm very pleased with the results. I went out and bought a blue and a black ultra-fine-tipped sharpie, and I went through the poster map and started adding things in. Rather than put everything in, however, I only put in major settlements and active lightning rail routes. This way, I have a map that has the basic information that the party would have access to, but leaves out the stuff I don't want them to know about (the exact locations of the various cities and towns in the Demon Wastes, for example). As I've said, I'm very pleased with the results, and it only took me about an hour to whip up.
Dylan Horrocks
07-04-04, 06:46 PM I have to agree with Taurren. Eberron is great, but the lack of a reliable detailed map is extremely annoying as a DM - and I am quite amazed that no-one at Wizards seems to have considered this necessary. It's utterly basic, for heaven's sake!

Good on Kildaere - but really, Wizards ought to be responding to this concern quickly and apologetically, by promising such a map in a forthcoming product or at least as a download. The longer they spend ignoring this, the more they erode the goodwill of Eberron's new fans.

Of course, we don't want this to destroy our enjoyment of the setting, but surely the presence of "thousands of threads and posts" complaining about this ought to tell Wizards that they screwed up and need to do something about it!
Taurren
07-04-04, 11:53 PM Despite the fact that they the majority of those who bought the setting appear to feel that they have messed up regarding the lack of useful maps, neither Hellcow or WotC appears willing to say anything at all about. That is a real shame especially given the high visability that the ECS has received.

I'm looking forward to Kildaere's maps very much and I hope it puts an end to all the complaints ( especially from me :headexplo )

Now I guess the next step would be to create some fan generated support of Kildaere's map. Since WotC is not interested in supporting the gamers in this particular area of Eberron ... we might as well do it for them.
Quithion
07-04-04, 11:53 PM I would love to see this map.

However, I think part of the reason the maps are little off or low in detail is to allow us to let our imaginations wonder.

I like the new feeling that eberron gives off. I can only imagine that this is how people felt when they first held Forgotten Realms in there hands.
Taurren
07-05-04, 12:10 AM Quithion, according to WotC Customer Service, the reason why there was no map of Khorvaire that actually listed cities, mountains, forests, roads etc ... is that we don't need one.
:confused: :confused:

Apparently, none of the nations have any actual borders, everything is fluid, and the R&D department was actually impressed with a suggestion made by a player to include such a map in the future.

Eberron is a game of intruige, double dealing and pulp fantasy set in a world recovering from a devastating war. Given the nature of this setting, to not include a good map, is a major blunder that I never imagined WotC would have missed, or would have tried to sweep under the carpet until it went away.

Sorry if I am re-hashing old news, but I just went through a frustrating 2 hour session trying to educate my players on where my game would be based out of and what political and racial options would best fit in. Needless to say we spent ALOT of time flipping back ond forth, searching for the locations of places that are mentioned in the book but not found on the maps.
Michael Tree
07-05-04, 03:44 AM Originally posted by Taurren
neither Hellcow or WotC appears willing to say anything at all about.
...
Since WotC is not interested in supporting the gamers in this particular area of Eberron ... we might as well do it for them. Bear in mind that WotC is a big company, and it takes a while for it to make decisions. Hellcow and the others on these boards are designers, not the ones that make business or art decisions. WotC may very well be deciding what to do with the map issue, but no one there can say anything before a decision is finalized and plans are made.
zcthu3
07-05-04, 05:30 PM Originally posted by Buffetassassin
...and important sites to the poster map in the Dungeon Magazine.

Out of curiosity which Dungeon was this in? My FLGS has a number of back issues so I might try and pick it up if they still have it.
Zelgadas
07-05-04, 06:59 PM Originally posted by zcthu3
Out of curiosity which Dungeon was this in? My FLGS has a number of back issues so I might try and pick it up if they still have it.

It's the most recent issue of Dungeon (i.e., the August issue that just came out at the beginning of July, as magazines do for some reason). At any rate, yes there's a poster map; it's basically the same map that appears on page 135 of the ECSB, but much bigger. The magazine also comes with a 1st-level Eberron adventure. Oh, and 'Eberron' is spelled wrong on the front cover, which I think is pretty funny (thought it seems to be spelled correctly in the actual text of the adventure).
zcthu3
07-05-04, 07:07 PM Thanks - by the time it gets here (New Zealand) it'll probably be August :) .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Buffetassassin 07-03-04, 02:55 PM	Yes Yes Yes we have all heard the complaints. Over thousands of threads and posts we hear them. "The maps for Eberron are incomplete." or "The map of Eberron is not detailed enough." Now that the new Dungeon Magazine has come out, and people are still displeased, we have to ask ourselves this question: Why not stop spending our time complaining about the maps, and simply add details to the map ourselves? I am making it a game night activity to take sharpies of different colors and mark in the lightning rail lines, trade lines, towns, cities, and important sites to the poster map in the Dungeon Magazine. It isn't difficult to do. Just look through the individual maps and translate them onto the big map. If you spend a good hour on the map, you will have a big map that is as detailed as YOU need, and you can stop making "The Map Sucks" threads. I think we all need to think about how great the setting is and realize that we are getting irritated about a minor issue.
Hanuman47 07-03-04, 03:14 PM	As far as I have seen, everyone who has spoken out about the maps acknowledges that the setting is great. That's why they're so irritated - WotC did such a great job, except on a fairly important detail. And I suspect that many would rather have something professionally done by a graphics department with advanced equipment rather than a hand drawn job which could be messy. On the other hand, this might be just the right kind of thing to give to the players--after all, how many cartographers in Khorvaire have access to advanced graphics software and publishing equipment?
Zelgadas 07-03-04, 04:22 PM	I was actually thinking of getting some sort of dry-erasable plastic cover for my poster map. That way, I could draw on the relevant bits when I need to, and the players will only see what I want them to see.
Taurren 07-03-04, 04:30 PM	Hanuman, you are right in that the vast majority of those who are complaining about the poor maps are also staunch supporters of the setting and are rightfully irritated that despite paying $40, and buying the special Ebberon issue of Dungeon that they still dont have a map of Khorvaire which is accurate or complete. Buffet, if you wish to scribble on your maps, go for it. I think its an interesting idea and if it improves your game, good for you! As for me its just disheartening that despite all the complaints, on this board and others, that the only response I've read from WotC is a the statement that the players don't need a map with borders and cities on it, as there are no actual national borders in Eberron. What type of response is that? Have they even read the book? An accurate map that lists cities, forests, mountains, rivers borders, and roads should not be something that players have to beg for. This should have been a cornerstone of the information given to the players. Eberron is a great setting, and you are right that the lack of useful maps is an irritating problem that can be worked around. Its just that I never thought such a professionally done setting would have such a glaring and obvious error, and that no one from WotC would acknowledge it, talk about it, or try to do anything to fix it.
JustKim 07-03-04, 07:01 PM	As for me its just disheartening that despite all the complaints, on this board and others, that the only response I've read from WotC is a the statement that the players don't need a map with borders and cities on it, as there are no actual national borders in Eberron. I found that very confusing since there are numerous references to borders in the book. There are skirmishes held on borders, borders defined by landmarks that correspond to how the nations are separated in the book, and traveling papers for "anyone who travels across national borders". For a world without borders, an exceptional amount of effort was put into establishing that there are borders.
MavrickWeirdo 07-03-04, 11:39 PM	Originally posted by Taurren An accurate map that lists cities, forests, mountains, rivers borders, and roads should not be something that players have to beg for. This should have been a cornerstone of the information given to the players. I have a slight disagreement with this statment. Accurate maps should be a cornerstone for DM's. Accurate maps ARE something PLAYERS have to beg (the DM) for. However it can be difficult to keep published materials out of the hands of players at times. This is the reason that there is no "Planes Calendar" so that a DM can have planes remote or coterminous whenever they want. Ambiguity is the bane of "rules-lawyers" IMHO of course
kildaere007 07-04-04, 12:32 AM	I am in the process of making a complete map...see the thread here: MAP http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=267732 It is almost finished (I said 7/6 but I will have it ready tonight....I just need to wait to hear from Johnny (who is out of town) so that he can host the map.
Zelgadas 07-04-04, 06:36 PM	Originally posted by Buffetassassin I am making it a game night activity to take sharpies of different colors and mark in the lightning rail lines, trade lines, towns, cities, and important sites to the poster map in the Dungeon Magazine. It isn't difficult to do. Just look through the individual maps and translate them onto the big map. If you spend a good hour on the map, you will have a big map that is as detailed as YOU need, and you can stop making "The Map Sucks" threads. I think we all need to think about how great the setting is and realize that we are getting irritated about a minor issue. I just followed this advice, and I must say I'm very pleased with the results. I went out and bought a blue and a black ultra-fine-tipped sharpie, and I went through the poster map and started adding things in. Rather than put everything in, however, I only put in major settlements and active lightning rail routes. This way, I have a map that has the basic information that the party would have access to, but leaves out the stuff I don't want them to know about (the exact locations of the various cities and towns in the Demon Wastes, for example). As I've said, I'm very pleased with the results, and it only took me about an hour to whip up.
Dylan Horrocks 07-04-04, 06:46 PM	I have to agree with Taurren. Eberron is great, but the lack of a reliable detailed map is extremely annoying as a DM - and I am quite amazed that no-one at Wizards seems to have considered this necessary. It's utterly basic, for heaven's sake! Good on Kildaere - but really, Wizards ought to be responding to this concern quickly and apologetically, by promising such a map in a forthcoming product or at least as a download. The longer they spend ignoring this, the more they erode the goodwill of Eberron's new fans. Of course, we don't want this to destroy our enjoyment of the setting, but surely the presence of "thousands of threads and posts" complaining about this ought to tell Wizards that they screwed up and need to do something about it!
Taurren 07-04-04, 11:53 PM	Despite the fact that they the majority of those who bought the setting appear to feel that they have messed up regarding the lack of useful maps, neither Hellcow or WotC appears willing to say anything at all about. That is a real shame especially given the high visability that the ECS has received. I'm looking forward to Kildaere's maps very much and I hope it puts an end to all the complaints ( especially from me :headexplo ) Now I guess the next step would be to create some fan generated support of Kildaere's map. Since WotC is not interested in supporting the gamers in this particular area of Eberron ... we might as well do it for them.
Quithion 07-04-04, 11:53 PM	I would love to see this map. However, I think part of the reason the maps are little off or low in detail is to allow us to let our imaginations wonder. I like the new feeling that eberron gives off. I can only imagine that this is how people felt when they first held Forgotten Realms in there hands.
Taurren 07-05-04, 12:10 AM	Quithion, according to WotC Customer Service, the reason why there was no map of Khorvaire that actually listed cities, mountains, forests, roads etc ... is that we don't need one. :confused: :confused: Apparently, none of the nations have any actual borders, everything is fluid, and the R&D department was actually impressed with a suggestion made by a player to include such a map in the future. Eberron is a game of intruige, double dealing and pulp fantasy set in a world recovering from a devastating war. Given the nature of this setting, to not include a good map, is a major blunder that I never imagined WotC would have missed, or would have tried to sweep under the carpet until it went away. Sorry if I am re-hashing old news, but I just went through a frustrating 2 hour session trying to educate my players on where my game would be based out of and what political and racial options would best fit in. Needless to say we spent ALOT of time flipping back ond forth, searching for the locations of places that are mentioned in the book but not found on the maps.
Michael Tree 07-05-04, 03:44 AM	Originally posted by Taurren neither Hellcow or WotC appears willing to say anything at all about. ... Since WotC is not interested in supporting the gamers in this particular area of Eberron ... we might as well do it for them. Bear in mind that WotC is a big company, and it takes a while for it to make decisions. Hellcow and the others on these boards are designers, not the ones that make business or art decisions. WotC may very well be deciding what to do with the map issue, but no one there can say anything before a decision is finalized and plans are made.
zcthu3 07-05-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Buffetassassin ...and important sites to the poster map in the Dungeon Magazine. Out of curiosity which Dungeon was this in? My FLGS has a number of back issues so I might try and pick it up if they still have it.
Zelgadas 07-05-04, 06:59 PM	Originally posted by zcthu3 Out of curiosity which Dungeon was this in? My FLGS has a number of back issues so I might try and pick it up if they still have it. It's the most recent issue of Dungeon (i.e., the August issue that just came out at the beginning of July, as magazines do for some reason). At any rate, yes there's a poster map; it's basically the same map that appears on page 135 of the ECSB, but much bigger. The magazine also comes with a 1st-level Eberron adventure. Oh, and 'Eberron' is spelled wrong on the front cover, which I think is pretty funny (thought it seems to be spelled correctly in the actual text of the adventure).
zcthu3 07-05-04, 07:07 PM	Thanks - by the time it gets here (New Zealand) it'll probably be August :) .