Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ussie 06-08-05, 11:12 PM	I have an idea, you know how there are the abherrent dragonmarks and they might be dragon marks wihch have been lost due to the war of the mark. So I was just wondering, if anyone had any suggestions to make a complete list of possbile effects of these dragon marks. for instance cause fear abherrent dragonmark could be the mark of death, so if we go by that then we need a lesser and greater dragonmark and then the siberys equivalent.
KP91 06-08-05, 11:15 PM	Aberrant dragonmarks were not lost during the War of the Mark. Your mixing up the Mark of Death and the War of the Mark.
ussie 06-09-05, 02:07 AM	Aberrant dragonmarks were not lost during the War of the Mark. Your mixing up the Mark of Death and the War of the Mark. sorry to correct you KP91... but... I was referring to Aberrant dragonmarks being the result of dragonmarked houses which were destroyed during the war of the mark ( p 47: can be tracked back to the bloodlines of corrupted dragonmarked families eliminated in the war of the mark) Therefore we can pretty much safely assume that there were dragonmarked families which had these as their dragonmarks (probably least) for instance cause fear abherrent dragonmark could be the mark of death, so if we go by that then we need a lesser and greater dragonmark and then the siberys equivalent.. here i have to apologize I should have clarified that im talking about this as an example of what I meant. The MArk of Death was destroyed before the war of the mark and im not confusing the two. I was merely suggesting that perhaps cause fear would make sense to be the least dragonmark of The house of Vol, I am taking liberty and suggesting that perhaps they meant that aberrant dragonmarks are dragonmarks of families that no longer survived post War of Mark (in which case yes, this would be the least dragonmark for the house of vol as it was a house destroyed long before). thanks for your pointing out that I was not clarifying what I was saying KP91
Hellcow 06-09-05, 03:25 AM	Just to give you the official answer - which by no means should stop you from exploring this idea and doing something different yourself - aberrant marks are not just unknown dragonmarks. Among other things: Two aberrant dragonmarks that grant the same power can (and usually do) have an entirely different appearance. By comparison, the least mark of storm always looks exactly the same, even though two heirs could have it on different parts of the body. If a child inherits an aberrant dragonmark from a parent (not a sure thing), the mark can be entirely different from that of the parent. So a person bearing a mark generating charm person could have a child who can produce burning hands. Aberrant marks are thus defined by a certain level of unpredictability. There are a limited number of powers, and it is clear that in the past there were people with aberrant marks of far greater power, but there was always a clear difference between the aberrant and pure marks.
fuindordm 06-09-05, 04:41 AM	Months ago I remember you hinting (or maybe it was just wishful thinking) that you had a 'Heir of Khyber' prestige class in mind to develop the aberrent dragonmark concept. Is this still in the works somewhere, Keith? Ben
The White Sorcerer 06-09-05, 08:57 AM	I was referring to Aberrant dragonmarks being the result of dragonmarked houses which were destroyed during the war of the mark ( p 47: can be tracked back to the bloodlines of corrupted dragonmarked families eliminated in the war of the mark) Therefore we can pretty much safely assume that there were dragonmarked families which had these as their dragonmarks (probably least) Note that it says families, not houses. So they were families within the existing Houses.
Hellcow 06-09-05, 02:06 PM	Note that it says families, not houses. So they were families within the existing Houses. Correct. Most of the houses were made up of multiple families who manifested the same dragonmark and joined together to form the houses: House Sivis and House Tharashk are good examples of this, since both frequently use their family names in addition to their house name. "Mixed marks" are aberrant marks that are formed as the result of crossbreeding between dragonmarked lines. Before the War of the Mark, this was a more common practice, leading to more aberrants among the "pure" families. Months ago I remember you hinting (or maybe it was just wishful thinking) that you had a 'Heir of Khyber' prestige class in mind to develop the aberrent dragonmark concept. Is this still in the works somewhere, Keith? Certainly. *I* know what the Lady of the Plague could do - the more powerful aberrants are an important part of history. But as for when that info will see the light of day, it will depend on the WotC production schedule and what sourcebooks they come up with. It's a fairly significant chunk of information, and doesn't have any real relevance to, say, the Five Nations or Explorer's Handbook. (That's the problem of being a new world - always more to say than space to say it.) But again, just becuase I do have my own thoughts on the matter shouldn't keep you from exploring your own ideas.
Ibbins 06-09-05, 09:17 PM	I think Ussie has an excellent idea, here. The War of the Mark (where's the bulk of info for that, BTW? I remember reading it somewhere but can't find it anymore) resulted in all the official dragonmarks remaining pure in their forms and lineages. There are potentially other dragonmarks--Aberrant Dragonmarks in this case-- that once followed the regularity of the normal marks, but most of them were driven to near extinction, plus they were properly forstered and maintained over the course of several centuries. Aberrant marks are, like our master Keith said, irregular and unpredictable in nature, though there could be a bare few of those that could be once again coaxed into growing/becoming more powerful, because they would in fact not be Abberant marks, since the CS clearly states that Aberrant marks cannot become more powerful. Hm, I seem to be rambling. Note that one of Vol's greater schemes is to revive the mark of Death, and much of her focus concerning the matter is on the Aberrant marks. Well, I don't think my thoughts came out entirely clearly... I'll try to clarify if anyone cares for me to. Excellent work, Ussie.
ussie 06-10-05, 12:48 AM	okay first of all yay im giddy that the one who invented eberron posted on my thing woohoooo, I think Ibbins we seem to be on the same track, im trying to develop a mini campaign arc based on Vol trying to recover the mark of death and stuff like that, maybe if youre up for it we can hammer out the details together.
Ibbins 06-10-05, 04:05 PM	Alrighty, sounds like a plan.
KP91 06-10-05, 10:20 PM	Certainly. *I* know what the Lady of the Plague could do - the more powerful aberrants are an important part of history. But as for when that info will see the light of day, it will depend on the WotC production schedule and what sourcebooks they come up with. It's a fairly significant chunk of information, and doesn't have any real relevance to, say, the Five Nations or Explorer's Handbook. (That's the problem of being a new world - always more to say than space to say it.) But again, just becuase I do have my own thoughts on the matter shouldn't keep you from exploring your own ideas. Who needs your work in a book when you have a website. *couph*hint*couph*
Ibbins 06-15-05, 09:09 PM	Ok, here's some ideas for new Dragonmarks. Using the Aberrant list for ideas here: Burning Hands -> Mark of Flame Cause Fear -> Mark of Fear. Also Potentially the Mark of Death. Charm Person -> Mark of Control Chill Touch -> Mark of Draining/Weakening... fits better with Ray of Enfeeblement. Detect Secret Doors -> N/A(Should be an option for Mark of Detection) Feather Fall -> Mark of Flight Inflict Light Wounds -> A more likely Candidate for Mark of Death Jump -> Another option for Mark of Flight Pass Without Trace -> Mark of Stealth Produce Flame -> Another option for Mark of Flame Shield-> Mark of Defense(Much like Mark of Sentinel) Tenser's Floating Disk-> N/A. It should'nt be hard to work out full progressions from there. I suppose the emergence of these Marks would be similar to the nature of the appearance of the Original 13. I haven't seen anything detailed about that, though. Could anyone enlighten me? EDIT: Oh yeah, another mark I completely forgot about (Idea came from Lord of Xoriat): Mark of Time. No idea what the Least spell would be. Candidates for lesser, greater, and syberys: Time Hop(psi), Haste, Slow, Temporal Acceleration(psi), Mass Time Hop(psi), Time Stop, Timeless Body(psi)
Ibbins 06-15-05, 09:39 PM	A few possible reasons why these marks emerge as true Dragonmarks would be nice, too. One possibility: The Chamber translates a bit more of the Prophecy and decides to engineer the emergence of all these new marks. It would be nice to know why, though. And maybe some clue as to how; Vol has been working on it for centuries.
PoeticJustice 06-15-05, 11:17 PM	So far as Dragonmarks go, IIRC, The Twelve, the Dragonmarked House's arcane research guild, issued a statement at its founding that after interpreting the prophecy to this effect: "although 13 is the perfect number, there is no indication of a 13th (MoD) mark. Hence we shall be the Twelve." Whether that justifies exterminating other houses till you get down to thirteen or whether or not there were only 13 marks to begin with is still up for debate though. Lastly, I lost my chance to incorporate him, but I once made a villain that used the (tragically named) Mark of Cancer. It was essentially a dragonmark version of the Necrotic Cyst feat from Libris Mortis. That, and I always dreamed of making a Mark of Time.
D4rkchylde 06-15-05, 11:35 PM	Hmm an interesting idea, I'll see if I can whip up the Heir of Khyber prestige class and post it here for us to tweak until the thing is balanced and stuff.
DolArrah 06-16-05, 12:27 AM	I created a prestige class, somewhat like the Heir of Syberis, but called it the Abberant Heir. It is in my sig and is a prestige class for people who want a powerful abberant mark.
Ibbins 06-19-05, 09:37 AM	I think a PrC that actually focuses on the Aberrant Mark feat is in order. Your PrC requires that the character have no previous dragonmark of any kind.
Lord Of Xoriat 06-20-05, 07:53 AM	Love the idea & where this is going! Kudos to Ibbins for the creative credit on Mark of Time..but what kind of a Lord would I be if I didn't suggest a Mark Of Madness which is beginning to manifest on the native creatures warped by the Daelkyr within the Shadow Marshes as Xoriat begins to move closer to it's coterminous position again..... :evillaugh Perhaps Lesser Confusion 1/day & Ghost sound for lesser going to Dream 1/day Fear 1/day False Vision 1/day or Hallucinatory Terrain 1/day for stronger marks; anyway you get the idea. Would love to help develop this some more if you want it... :)
ussie 06-20-05, 01:54 PM	Mark of Death Least: Disrupt Undead OR Cause Fear; in addition get +2 to any saving throw against a death spell or effect Lesser: Animate Dead OR Speak with Undead OR Death ward Great: Create Undead OR Slay Living Siberys: Create Greater Undead OR Wail of the Banshee guys go all out on ripping it apart and adding input
Shades 06-20-05, 06:10 PM	Subnote... you guys will have your own ideas of course, and I'm sure the mark of death novel will inspire a lot of gms one way or another, but keep in mind just because it's called the mark of death doesn't force you to make it completely about death. (Be it raise dead, instant kill, or both/either) Allowing for possible contradiction (I've read through most of the soucebooks, but I'm sure I've missed quite a bit), what the mark of death did has never been specified. The only people who might know are Vol herself, and possibly some of the undying court. So, here we have a completely blank mark that could theoretically do anything. But "Wait," you say, "everyone calls it the mark of death!" Well, what's the one fact we do know about it? That everyone who had it was hunted down and killed. So you could easily say anyone who had the 13th dragonmark was 'marked for death', ie the mark of death. So what does this mean? Don't feel bound to make the mark about death. Who knows, maybe the mark controlled time, maybe it made pretty flowers and happy rainbows. Anything is up to grabs, I'd say. Personally I'm partial to the tolkien approach: One mark to rule them all. (So the 'mark of death' actually gives the power to control other mark users, but it might turn you a bit batty in the head, like an aberrant is supposed to.) Could have other powers in addition to that, but I just sort of like that idea as a plot arc, though I'm sure you're better off sticking to core spells. Anyway, point being just don't feel bound to make it about death. Run wild with it if you choose to bring it into your campaign. One of my favorite things about Eberron is the open-ended plot hooks. Keith and the sourcebooks purposefully leave it wide open, so make the best of this awesome fact, and dont let anything limit your ideas.
Lord Of Xoriat 06-21-05, 09:27 AM	Personally I'm partial to the tolkien approach: One mark to rule them all I likey!! Or the Mark draws power from other marks i.e. in itself it has no power; except when you touch another dragonmarked person in which case it takes on that marks powers (possibly draining the vistim of their mark) until the next victim comes along. Also more ideas for marks: Mark of Ice: Least- Chill Touch 1/day, *Glaze Lock 1/day, *Snowdrift 1/day; +4 to survival/fortitude check in frozen terrain or against cold spells Lesser- *Shivering Touch 1/day, Sleet Storm 1/day Greater- *Flesh to Ice or Ice to Flesh 1/day & Cone of Cold 1/day *from Frostburn Supplement Also what if their is a Mark of the Dragon: Least- Feather Fall 1/day, Burning Hands 1/day, Cause Fear 1/day; is literate in draconic & has Keen Senses as a dragon Lesser- Fireball 1/day (with a limit on damage maybe); Fly 1/day Greater- Dominate Person 1/day; Contact Dragon (like contact other plane except for obvious named difference) 1/day
Caul 07-01-05, 03:00 PM	A few possible reasons why these marks emerge as true Dragonmarks would be nice, too. Ah, but they ARE true dragonmarks. They are simply called abberant by the Twelve because they don't fit into the existing and accepted houses.
Ibbins 07-01-05, 04:23 PM	There is, however, a distinct difference between aberrant marks and dragonmarks, as explained by Hellcow above. I'm wondering what might cause the aberrant marks to evolve into marks that are less erratic in nature and can grow more powerful over time. This question also leads to the question of where the original dragonmarks came from. Other than that they have something to do with Eberron's moons, I don't know much about it.
Grey_Mage 04-03-06, 01:39 PM	Hmm... interesting ideas. Remember though that as |DM its your power to rule that source book data can be flawed- or that its the commonly held idea of the poeple, wich is in error.
Wrathamon 04-03-06, 03:05 PM	Mark of Death Least: Disrupt Undead OR Cause Fear; in addition get +2 to any saving throw against a death spell or effect Lesser: Animate Dead OR Speak with Undead OR Death ward Great: Create Undead OR Slay Living Siberys: Create Greater Undead OR Wail of the Banshee guys go all out on ripping it apart and adding input That sounds more like the Mark of Undeath. Personally the Mark of Death should be about Life and Death... choosing to take life or remove death. I modified your list a bit, there was some good suggestions you came up with. Least: Inflict Light Wounds OR Cause Fear; in addition get +2 to any saving throw against a death spell or effect (good suggestion) Lesser: Inflict Moderate WoundsOR Speak with Undead OR Death ward Great: Raise Dead OR Slay Living Siberys: Resurrection OR Finger of Death