Ability Point Distribuition for Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ability Point Distribuition for Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Onslaught[IT]
03-05-05, 07:56 PM Hello, Guys

Sometime in the future I want to DM the adventures of Eberron for my players (after I finish Adventure Path series, wich will take sometime) ...
Recently I've been thinking about the abilityes a common Eberron character should have at the 1st Level ...
I hate dice-roll, so I'm talking about Point Distribuition ... how could 1st Level characters don't look over-powered (18's without racial adjustment) nor make ilogical things like the wizard hitting stronger and more often than the fighter ...
Could Elite Array make a good choise? What you guys (as DMs and players) think is better, when concerning Ability Distribuution?

Thanks =)
AvonRekaes
03-05-05, 08:09 PM Personally, I like having overpowered characters in games I run, cause that means I can throw overpowered monsters at them. There's a section in the DMG that describes the point-buy system (Page 169... i think... could be wrong).

The "high powered" campaign option for point buy gives players 36 points to spend toward their ability scores. (Note: it's not one-for-one, players start at 8 in everything and upping scores costs more per increase depending on how high the score is).

Standard point buy is 25 (I believe... that could be Living Greyhawk nonstandard though).

I like to run games with 45 points. And Gestalt. Yes, I know I'm crazy, but I have fun. :P
Cutlass
03-05-05, 08:49 PM You were correct about the ability score point costs and "buy levels" recommended being on page 169 of the DMG. The highest they go is what they call a "High-powered" campaign with 32 points to spend on the table they give for such things.

To avoid going into a long treatise on how to apply statistical analysis to figure out what the "average" stat should be for a population composed of people with 6 stats independently varying from 3-18, just let me say that my recommendation (for whatever anybody else may think it is worth) is to go with either a 32 point buy or a 36 point buy. At one time I was considering using a 40 point buy for a campaign I was designing, but ended up deciding that might be a little much. Regardless of what point buy total you decide on, I would also suggest a house rule that no starting character can have an ability score higher than 18 after racial bonuses have been added on. (Assuming you are starting with level 1 characters.)

[Note: a 36 point buy will enable a starting character to have ability scores of 14 for all six abilities before racial modifications. A 40 point buy would permit a starting character to have two ability scores of 18 with the other 4 scores being 10 before racial modifications.]
Salla
03-05-05, 09:25 PM Myself, I'm a point-buy-all-the-way kinda guy. :)

I was thinking 38 points; enough for an 18-18-10-10-10-8 distribution (though that's not likely to be the norm, I know my players). Important NPCs will probably be built with the same stat layout, though.

I like giving my players the ability to play what they want, and Multiple Ability Deficiency factors into that very painfully sometimes. On the other hand, I don't want someone with straight 16-18 stats (though I have players who have tried to convince me that they rolled that). This should be enough for two great stats, or a good 'all around' character. It depends on whether or not they want to maximize their strengths or minimize their weaknesses.
The White Sorcerer
03-05-05, 09:28 PM I always use point-buy. Here's the points I use:

NPCs with NPC classes: 15 points (standard 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8)
NPCs with PC classes: 25 points (standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8)
PCs: 28 points
darkthought
03-05-05, 09:30 PM I always use point-buy. Here's the points I use:

NPCs with NPC classes: 15 points (standard 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8)
NPCs with PC classes: 25 points (standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8)
PCs: 28 points

Isn't that the standard and elite array?
Marshall Stone
03-05-05, 11:04 PM I give my players: 18. 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, to arrange in any order they want and then modified by racial adjustments.

So for example, 2 party members in the Group have:
Talenta Plains Halfling fighter (dino-rider) - Str. 16 (18 - 2) , Dex. 18 (16 + 2), Con. 15, Int. 14, Wis. 13, Cha. 12

Warforged Barbarian - Str. 18, Dex. 15, Con. 18 (16 + 2), Int. 14, Wis 11 (13 - 2), and Cha 10 (12 - 2).

So on and so forth. Works great! Satisfies both my "role" players and my "roll" players.

As for NPC's, unless I need it to be otherwise for some reason, usually it's: 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, arranged in whatever makes most sense (16 str. for fighters, 16 dex. for rogues) without bothering with racial modifiers (they're already "included" so to speak).
The White Sorcerer
03-05-05, 11:47 PM Isn't that the standard and elite array?Yes.
Onslaught[IT]
03-06-05, 08:09 AM Thanks everyone! Anyone with diferent ideas, please post =)

I like to run games with 45 points. And Gestalt. Yes, I know I'm crazy, but I have fun.
You're *really* crazy!
Anyway, sometime in my life, I want to run/play a Gestalt party ... but that would be in a more ... hi-powered world (Like FR or even GH) ...

You were correct about the ability score point costs and "buy levels" recommended being on page 169 of the DMG. The highest they go is what they call a "High-powered" campaign with 32 points to spend on the table they give for such things ... I would also suggest a house rule that no starting character can have an ability score higher than 18 after racial bonuses have been added on.
Yes, 1st thinking about 1st Level Characters ...
I had forgotten the DMG Point-Buy System ... which is a good idea, indeed!
And, I'm one of those DMs that think 1st Level Chars shouldn't have too powerful stats like 20 in the first level ... or even multiple 18's ...
I used to give a diferent point-buy system where a character could make a 18/18/14/10/10/10 at maximum (Which was prohibited, of course), but I ended up disliking it as a player (yes!) and as a DM, because my 1st Lvl Chars were ... too powerfull for simple apprendice or unexperienced guys ...

Important NPCs will probably be built with the same stat layout, though.
That's for sure!
Nowadays I'm DMing an Adv Path updated to 3.5 series, but I chance any monster with name to have Elite Array as the players have ...

Marshall ... you're a good DM, and when you die you'll go to DM's Heaven, for sure ... I mean ... 'WOW' stats for PCs and quite-normal stats for NPCs (And even vilans?) ...
When the guy is a true BBEG (that behinds lots of things, like a True Necromancer that I'm making to use between those adventures, and who is liked with 2 of the 4 chars) I use god-friend roll (Like: Wow, this's important? 18! ... and, this is medium important? ok, 14-16 then ...)
That's for making good evil NPCs who shall make some trouble for PCs =)
Fedifensor
03-06-05, 08:42 AM The round-robin campaign I'm in uses 30 points. It's enough to give PC's well-rounded stats (3 12's and 3 14's) or a few high stats with the rest at average levels.
Crimsonsun
03-06-05, 08:59 AM We're doing two different Eberron campaigns. One runs your standard PCs, the other is the players playing as themselves! :eek:

Standard PCs were allowed to roll stats, using 5d6 and dropping the lowest two! Very high powered, but fun stuff

The Avatar group were bought using a 28 point buy, all PCs were human (as far as I know none of us are a 'forged or elf!) and to get access to a magic class you had to take a feat for your human feat (Education for arcane casting, and there was a specific one for divine, but I can't remember it).

Really, it all depends on how "high and mighty" you want your PCs to be. If your not gonna point buy, I always like 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll ones, and if your highest stat was 12 you could reroll the whole set
Cloud Divider
03-06-05, 11:56 AM I always use point-buy. Here's the points I use:

NPCs with NPC classes: 15 points (standard 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8)
NPCs with PC classes: 25 points (standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8)
PCs: 28 points
This is what I did with my campaign, and I've had pretty good luck with it. The PCs haven't felt underpowered at all, and they've generally had success on encounters of a higher level (Lev 2 party and a roughly EL 4, maybe 5 encounter where the PCs were outnumbered by about 2.5:1, but had the element of surprise). In order to do that, however, they do need to work smarter and not harder. For instance, that EL 4 encounter probably would have been pretty ugly if they just charged in, blades swinging.

Though generally speaking, the difference between the 15pt and 25pt array for me is less the divider between PC and NPC classes, and more based on their significance to the story. No-name extras get the 15pt array; named henchmen/lieutenants get the 25pt array; major villains get the 28pt (possibly more).

The normal arguments you hear ("You can't make an effective monk or paladin...") haven't really been an issue at all, and I've got one Silver Flame paladin in the party. The 25-pt NPC monk that showed up last game was certainly competent enough...
papytofu
03-06-05, 12:33 PM all PCs were human (as far as I know none of us are a 'forged or elf!)

You never know when a changeling is with you? Isb't any of the players acting strangely? :D

But that's sound really fun. But now that I think of that... that's what my PCs are always doing... :confused:
Gurv
03-06-05, 02:12 PM Remember that Eberron characters are supposed to be the heroes. So they should have superior stats compared to the average joe.

I come from a group that has traditionally had very high stats. Starting with my DMing Eberron, I have been using a 35 point buy (mostly because no one can complain due to 32 being clearly listed as 'high power') for PCs and 25 points for pure NPCs.

The truth is that as long as whatever you use is consistant amongst the players, you can adjust them game a bit so that they are neither slicing through foes nor suffering constant TPK. Just be aware of whether your players are high-powered or low-powered when running encounters directly out of premade adventures, or from the Monster Manual.
Crimsonsun
03-06-05, 02:47 PM You never know when a changeling is with you? Isb't any of the players acting strangely? :D

But that's sound really fun. But now that I think of that... that's what my PCs are always doing... :confused:

We have some fun characters in that group. One is a fighter/artificer (he works on cars IRL, so he figured that would give him experince enough) a rogue who's going invisiable blade, mostly skills in bluff and other stuff (customer service rep, they can lie like no one else!) a spirit shaman (he's a native american), a PSI warrior who manifested the mark of handling (he says its because he works at an animal hospital, so is empathic towards them, House Vadalis is VERY interested in him), a fighter who went heavy on action point feats (d8, extra points, action boost, etc) and a warmage (myself, ive always been obsessed with, and i quote my GM, "blowing :censored: up", had to take education so i could access the class)

The thing is, EVERY SYSTEM we play, our DM has us build ourselves out as PCs... I dont know why, its just a quirk of his, but its kinda fun too ;)
talion09
03-06-05, 02:49 PM Assuming that you allowed a mulligan for a really bad set of rolls, and that everyone was fine with it, I'd actually say to go with 4d6, drop the lowest, arrange as you like.

My reasoning for this?

First, it provides for characters that are above the average, which I believe the heroes should be, especially in eberron. And as stated by others, you really need above average stats to play a monk or paladin that is effective compared to "single stat" classes.

Second, I like rolling dice for a character's stats. But then I remember playing in plain old Advanced Dungeons and Dragons when the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance were "new" settings, so that may just be nostalgia talking.

Third, it reduces the tendency to min/max.

Now, keep in mind that I post on the Character Optimization board, and I definitely have min/max and powergame tendencies. But I find with my group that we don't spend so long agonizing and contemplating over how to distribute our stats when it is a roll method vs point buy. Which means we spend more time developing the story and personality of the character instead of allocating points.

Plus, we have a couple of players who aren't, for lack of a better term, as devout/dedicated roleplayers as the rest of the group. And deciding how to allocate 6 numbers is less intimidating and complicated for them instead of looking at the chart in the DMG and deciding how to spend their points.

The downside of this is that the characters potentially aren't equal. But most of the time I've found that it works out fine.
Onslaught[IT]
03-07-05, 01:30 PM The PCs haven't felt underpowered at all, and they've generally had success on encounters of a higher level (Lev 2 party and a roughly EL 4, maybe 5 encounter where the PCs were outnumbered by about 2.5:1, but had the element of surprise). In order to do that, however, they do need to work smarter and not harder. For instance, that EL 4 encounter probably would have been pretty ugly if they just charged in, blades swinging.
My PCs are kind of 'stupid' from that point ...

When I DM Sunless Cidadel, they were crying for more stats and always getting nervous b/c they were 'too low-powered' (Tought I think that just with Str 20 that halfling thief could hit someone with his rolls ... oh no, wait, it's still a low Str Score ...)
Indeed, that made me angry ... I hate powerfull characters ... I mean, sometimes is nice, but it takes more effort (and time) to make things hard for them ... Since I have no pacience nor time to change the adventures (besides the fact that I'm updating all NPCs to 3.5 and, at the same time, putting them in the same basis as their characters: Elite Array), I really won't let them have things like that ...

Anyway, the the Mage used to 'swing the sword and charge' (Indeed, pick his quarterstaff and go tring to hit the evil guys) ... so, you can notice that's not much mental work there (And, you know, I'm not all that bad, I warned them ... more than once!)

The normal arguments you hear ("You can't make an effective monk or paladin...") haven't really been an issue at all, and I've got one Silver Flame paladin in the party.
Hard to deal with a Paladin with low-score, but ... hey ... why not use this for RP? I don't understand my players ...

Remember that Eberron characters are supposed to be the heroes. So they should have superior stats compared to the average joe.
Elite Array means exaclty this: Superior compared to the average.
Notice that even monsters, when they're build with Elite Array, they get a +1 on ND ...

Second, I like rolling dice for a character's stats.
Since I'm against this as a player - don't like to see my character with 14's and my fridn's char with 18's ... nor the opposite ... I also prefere point distribuition when I DM ...

Third, it reduces the tendency to min/max.
Now, keep in mind that I post on the Character Optimization board, and I definitely have min/max and powergame tendencies. But I find with my group that we don't spend so long agonizing and contemplating over how to distribute our stats when it is a roll method vs point buy. Which means we spend more time developing the story and personality of the character instead of allocating points.
I'm getting realy upset with Min/Max b/c my players just do that and never ever RP the way I want them to (I mean, act a bit, create a character that's different from the other) ...

Anyway, I'm 100% agains int-penality (unable to talk properly sux, makes the game more ... funny, but less fun) ... and my players wouldn't play Wis-Penality well (like, wops, I made an AoO on purpose) ... =P
AvonRekaes
03-07-05, 03:05 PM Hehe, yeah, I'm really crazy.

For me, gestalt fits eberron because the players are supposed to be the pulp action heros.

If Indiana jones was a DnD character, I'd place him as a gestat Rogue/Fighter. Either that, or a Rogue/Ranger.

More class features means more abilities that you can pull out at a moments notice, just when they're needed. That's why I think gestalt works for Eberron. The whole "low-powered setting" is only meant for NPCs. The PCs aren't meant to be low-powered by any means. (How else are they supposed to deal with a level 16 half-dragon lich and a continent of dragons!)

But this is all just the ramblings of a crazy man. ^_-
chiefcastor
03-07-05, 05:35 PM Here is what my group decided on for stats... some of us like rolling and some of us like point buy so we compromised.

everyone rolled 3 sets of 6 stats (using the 4d6 drop the lowest)

then everyone picked the set they wanted and figured out how many points you would need to buy those stats

everyone was then allowed to keep the stats they rolled or use the point buy of the highest rolling character to buy there stats

this keeps all the characters at the same power lvl which is my major issue with rolling but adds the randomness in that the rollers like

by the way... we ended up with a 44 point buy, but it could have been 20... its all chance

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Onslaught[IT] 03-05-05, 07:56 PM	Hello, Guys Sometime in the future I want to DM the adventures of Eberron for my players (after I finish Adventure Path series, wich will take sometime) ... Recently I've been thinking about the abilityes a common Eberron character should have at the 1st Level ... I hate dice-roll, so I'm talking about Point Distribuition ... how could 1st Level characters don't look over-powered (18's without racial adjustment) nor make ilogical things like the wizard hitting stronger and more often than the fighter ... Could Elite Array make a good choise? What you guys (as DMs and players) think is better, when concerning Ability Distribuution? Thanks =)
AvonRekaes 03-05-05, 08:09 PM	Personally, I like having overpowered characters in games I run, cause that means I can throw overpowered monsters at them. There's a section in the DMG that describes the point-buy system (Page 169... i think... could be wrong). The "high powered" campaign option for point buy gives players 36 points to spend toward their ability scores. (Note: it's not one-for-one, players start at 8 in everything and upping scores costs more per increase depending on how high the score is). Standard point buy is 25 (I believe... that could be Living Greyhawk nonstandard though). I like to run games with 45 points. And Gestalt. Yes, I know I'm crazy, but I have fun. :P
Cutlass 03-05-05, 08:49 PM	You were correct about the ability score point costs and "buy levels" recommended being on page 169 of the DMG. The highest they go is what they call a "High-powered" campaign with 32 points to spend on the table they give for such things. To avoid going into a long treatise on how to apply statistical analysis to figure out what the "average" stat should be for a population composed of people with 6 stats independently varying from 3-18, just let me say that my recommendation (for whatever anybody else may think it is worth) is to go with either a 32 point buy or a 36 point buy. At one time I was considering using a 40 point buy for a campaign I was designing, but ended up deciding that might be a little much. Regardless of what point buy total you decide on, I would also suggest a house rule that no starting character can have an ability score higher than 18 after racial bonuses have been added on. (Assuming you are starting with level 1 characters.) [Note: a 36 point buy will enable a starting character to have ability scores of 14 for all six abilities before racial modifications. A 40 point buy would permit a starting character to have two ability scores of 18 with the other 4 scores being 10 before racial modifications.]
Salla 03-05-05, 09:25 PM	Myself, I'm a point-buy-all-the-way kinda guy. :) I was thinking 38 points; enough for an 18-18-10-10-10-8 distribution (though that's not likely to be the norm, I know my players). Important NPCs will probably be built with the same stat layout, though. I like giving my players the ability to play what they want, and Multiple Ability Deficiency factors into that very painfully sometimes. On the other hand, I don't want someone with straight 16-18 stats (though I have players who have tried to convince me that they rolled that). This should be enough for two great stats, or a good 'all around' character. It depends on whether or not they want to maximize their strengths or minimize their weaknesses.
The White Sorcerer 03-05-05, 09:28 PM	I always use point-buy. Here's the points I use: NPCs with NPC classes: 15 points (standard 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) NPCs with PC classes: 25 points (standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) PCs: 28 points
darkthought 03-05-05, 09:30 PM	I always use point-buy. Here's the points I use: NPCs with NPC classes: 15 points (standard 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) NPCs with PC classes: 25 points (standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) PCs: 28 points Isn't that the standard and elite array?
Marshall Stone 03-05-05, 11:04 PM	I give my players: 18. 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, to arrange in any order they want and then modified by racial adjustments. So for example, 2 party members in the Group have: Talenta Plains Halfling fighter (dino-rider) - Str. 16 (18 - 2) , Dex. 18 (16 + 2), Con. 15, Int. 14, Wis. 13, Cha. 12 Warforged Barbarian - Str. 18, Dex. 15, Con. 18 (16 + 2), Int. 14, Wis 11 (13 - 2), and Cha 10 (12 - 2). So on and so forth. Works great! Satisfies both my "role" players and my "roll" players. As for NPC's, unless I need it to be otherwise for some reason, usually it's: 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, arranged in whatever makes most sense (16 str. for fighters, 16 dex. for rogues) without bothering with racial modifiers (they're already "included" so to speak).
The White Sorcerer 03-05-05, 11:47 PM	Isn't that the standard and elite array?Yes.
Onslaught[IT] 03-06-05, 08:09 AM	Thanks everyone! Anyone with diferent ideas, please post =) I like to run games with 45 points. And Gestalt. Yes, I know I'm crazy, but I have fun. You're really crazy! Anyway, sometime in my life, I want to run/play a Gestalt party ... but that would be in a more ... hi-powered world (Like FR or even GH) ... You were correct about the ability score point costs and "buy levels" recommended being on page 169 of the DMG. The highest they go is what they call a "High-powered" campaign with 32 points to spend on the table they give for such things ... I would also suggest a house rule that no starting character can have an ability score higher than 18 after racial bonuses have been added on. Yes, 1st thinking about 1st Level Characters ... I had forgotten the DMG Point-Buy System ... which is a good idea, indeed! And, I'm one of those DMs that think 1st Level Chars shouldn't have too powerful stats like 20 in the first level ... or even multiple 18's ... I used to give a diferent point-buy system where a character could make a 18/18/14/10/10/10 at maximum (Which was prohibited, of course), but I ended up disliking it as a player (yes!) and as a DM, because my 1st Lvl Chars were ... too powerfull for simple apprendice or unexperienced guys ... Important NPCs will probably be built with the same stat layout, though. That's for sure! Nowadays I'm DMing an Adv Path updated to 3.5 series, but I chance any monster with name to have Elite Array as the players have ... Marshall ... you're a good DM, and when you die you'll go to DM's Heaven, for sure ... I mean ... 'WOW' stats for PCs and quite-normal stats for NPCs (And even vilans?) ... When the guy is a true BBEG (that behinds lots of things, like a True Necromancer that I'm making to use between those adventures, and who is liked with 2 of the 4 chars) I use god-friend roll (Like: Wow, this's important? 18! ... and, this is medium important? ok, 14-16 then ...) That's for making good evil NPCs who shall make some trouble for PCs =)
Fedifensor 03-06-05, 08:42 AM	The round-robin campaign I'm in uses 30 points. It's enough to give PC's well-rounded stats (3 12's and 3 14's) or a few high stats with the rest at average levels.
Crimsonsun 03-06-05, 08:59 AM	We're doing two different Eberron campaigns. One runs your standard PCs, the other is the players playing as themselves! :eek: Standard PCs were allowed to roll stats, using 5d6 and dropping the lowest two! Very high powered, but fun stuff The Avatar group were bought using a 28 point buy, all PCs were human (as far as I know none of us are a 'forged or elf!) and to get access to a magic class you had to take a feat for your human feat (Education for arcane casting, and there was a specific one for divine, but I can't remember it). Really, it all depends on how "high and mighty" you want your PCs to be. If your not gonna point buy, I always like 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll ones, and if your highest stat was 12 you could reroll the whole set
Cloud Divider 03-06-05, 11:56 AM	I always use point-buy. Here's the points I use: NPCs with NPC classes: 15 points (standard 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) NPCs with PC classes: 25 points (standard 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) PCs: 28 points This is what I did with my campaign, and I've had pretty good luck with it. The PCs haven't felt underpowered at all, and they've generally had success on encounters of a higher level (Lev 2 party and a roughly EL 4, maybe 5 encounter where the PCs were outnumbered by about 2.5:1, but had the element of surprise). In order to do that, however, they do need to work smarter and not harder. For instance, that EL 4 encounter probably would have been pretty ugly if they just charged in, blades swinging. Though generally speaking, the difference between the 15pt and 25pt array for me is less the divider between PC and NPC classes, and more based on their significance to the story. No-name extras get the 15pt array; named henchmen/lieutenants get the 25pt array; major villains get the 28pt (possibly more). The normal arguments you hear ("You can't make an effective monk or paladin...") haven't really been an issue at all, and I've got one Silver Flame paladin in the party. The 25-pt NPC monk that showed up last game was certainly competent enough...
papytofu 03-06-05, 12:33 PM	all PCs were human (as far as I know none of us are a 'forged or elf!) You never know when a changeling is with you? Isb't any of the players acting strangely? :D But that's sound really fun. But now that I think of that... that's what my PCs are always doing... :confused:
Gurv 03-06-05, 02:12 PM	Remember that Eberron characters are supposed to be the heroes. So they should have superior stats compared to the average joe. I come from a group that has traditionally had very high stats. Starting with my DMing Eberron, I have been using a 35 point buy (mostly because no one can complain due to 32 being clearly listed as 'high power') for PCs and 25 points for pure NPCs. The truth is that as long as whatever you use is consistant amongst the players, you can adjust them game a bit so that they are neither slicing through foes nor suffering constant TPK. Just be aware of whether your players are high-powered or low-powered when running encounters directly out of premade adventures, or from the Monster Manual.
Crimsonsun 03-06-05, 02:47 PM	You never know when a changeling is with you? Isb't any of the players acting strangely? :D But that's sound really fun. But now that I think of that... that's what my PCs are always doing... :confused: We have some fun characters in that group. One is a fighter/artificer (he works on cars IRL, so he figured that would give him experince enough) a rogue who's going invisiable blade, mostly skills in bluff and other stuff (customer service rep, they can lie like no one else!) a spirit shaman (he's a native american), a PSI warrior who manifested the mark of handling (he says its because he works at an animal hospital, so is empathic towards them, House Vadalis is VERY interested in him), a fighter who went heavy on action point feats (d8, extra points, action boost, etc) and a warmage (myself, ive always been obsessed with, and i quote my GM, "blowing :censored: up", had to take education so i could access the class) The thing is, EVERY SYSTEM we play, our DM has us build ourselves out as PCs... I dont know why, its just a quirk of his, but its kinda fun too ;)
talion09 03-06-05, 02:49 PM	Assuming that you allowed a mulligan for a really bad set of rolls, and that everyone was fine with it, I'd actually say to go with 4d6, drop the lowest, arrange as you like. My reasoning for this? First, it provides for characters that are above the average, which I believe the heroes should be, especially in eberron. And as stated by others, you really need above average stats to play a monk or paladin that is effective compared to "single stat" classes. Second, I like rolling dice for a character's stats. But then I remember playing in plain old Advanced Dungeons and Dragons when the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance were "new" settings, so that may just be nostalgia talking. Third, it reduces the tendency to min/max. Now, keep in mind that I post on the Character Optimization board, and I definitely have min/max and powergame tendencies. But I find with my group that we don't spend so long agonizing and contemplating over how to distribute our stats when it is a roll method vs point buy. Which means we spend more time developing the story and personality of the character instead of allocating points. Plus, we have a couple of players who aren't, for lack of a better term, as devout/dedicated roleplayers as the rest of the group. And deciding how to allocate 6 numbers is less intimidating and complicated for them instead of looking at the chart in the DMG and deciding how to spend their points. The downside of this is that the characters potentially aren't equal. But most of the time I've found that it works out fine.
Onslaught[IT] 03-07-05, 01:30 PM	The PCs haven't felt underpowered at all, and they've generally had success on encounters of a higher level (Lev 2 party and a roughly EL 4, maybe 5 encounter where the PCs were outnumbered by about 2.5:1, but had the element of surprise). In order to do that, however, they do need to work smarter and not harder. For instance, that EL 4 encounter probably would have been pretty ugly if they just charged in, blades swinging. My PCs are kind of 'stupid' from that point ... When I DM Sunless Cidadel, they were crying for more stats and always getting nervous b/c they were 'too low-powered' (Tought I think that just with Str 20 that halfling thief could hit someone with his rolls ... oh no, wait, it's still a low Str Score ...) Indeed, that made me angry ... I hate powerfull characters ... I mean, sometimes is nice, but it takes more effort (and time) to make things hard for them ... Since I have no pacience nor time to change the adventures (besides the fact that I'm updating all NPCs to 3.5 and, at the same time, putting them in the same basis as their characters: Elite Array), I really won't let them have things like that ... Anyway, the the Mage used to 'swing the sword and charge' (Indeed, pick his quarterstaff and go tring to hit the evil guys) ... so, you can notice that's not much mental work there (And, you know, I'm not all that bad, I warned them ... more than once!) The normal arguments you hear ("You can't make an effective monk or paladin...") haven't really been an issue at all, and I've got one Silver Flame paladin in the party. Hard to deal with a Paladin with low-score, but ... hey ... why not use this for RP? I don't understand my players ... Remember that Eberron characters are supposed to be the heroes. So they should have superior stats compared to the average joe. Elite Array means exaclty this: Superior compared to the average. Notice that even monsters, when they're build with Elite Array, they get a +1 on ND ... Second, I like rolling dice for a character's stats. Since I'm against this as a player - don't like to see my character with 14's and my fridn's char with 18's ... nor the opposite ... I also prefere point distribuition when I DM ... Third, it reduces the tendency to min/max. Now, keep in mind that I post on the Character Optimization board, and I definitely have min/max and powergame tendencies. But I find with my group that we don't spend so long agonizing and contemplating over how to distribute our stats when it is a roll method vs point buy. Which means we spend more time developing the story and personality of the character instead of allocating points. I'm getting realy upset with Min/Max b/c my players just do that and never ever RP the way I want them to (I mean, act a bit, create a character that's different from the other) ... Anyway, I'm 100% agains int-penality (unable to talk properly sux, makes the game more ... funny, but less fun) ... and my players wouldn't play Wis-Penality well (like, wops, I made an AoO on purpose) ... =P
AvonRekaes 03-07-05, 03:05 PM	Hehe, yeah, I'm really crazy. For me, gestalt fits eberron because the players are supposed to be the pulp action heros. If Indiana jones was a DnD character, I'd place him as a gestat Rogue/Fighter. Either that, or a Rogue/Ranger. More class features means more abilities that you can pull out at a moments notice, just when they're needed. That's why I think gestalt works for Eberron. The whole "low-powered setting" is only meant for NPCs. The PCs aren't meant to be low-powered by any means. (How else are they supposed to deal with a level 16 half-dragon lich and a continent of dragons!) But this is all just the ramblings of a crazy man. ^_-
chiefcastor 03-07-05, 05:35 PM	Here is what my group decided on for stats... some of us like rolling and some of us like point buy so we compromised. everyone rolled 3 sets of 6 stats (using the 4d6 drop the lowest) then everyone picked the set they wanted and figured out how many points you would need to buy those stats everyone was then allowed to keep the stats they rolled or use the point buy of the highest rolling character to buy there stats this keeps all the characters at the same power lvl which is my major issue with rolling but adds the randomness in that the rollers like by the way... we ended up with a 44 point buy, but it could have been 20... its all chance