Abstract Resources [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abstract Resources [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Joseph Amarillo
10-11-04, 02:53 AM I'm good in Math. In fact, I'm actually going to the USA in a few months to study Computer Science or Math in a Missouri college (not sure yet which one).

Thanks to my good Math skills, I've never had problems with calculating skill points, gold pieces, attack bonuses, ability modifiers, etc. Sure, it took a lot longer to create a DnD character than a World of Darkness character, but it wasn't really a problem.

And that's when I started DM'ing a group of numerically-challenged players. That's when I discovered just how long it took for them to finish their characters. I had to constantly babysit some of the players because if I didn't, they would get most of the calculations wrong and we'd have to start all over again.

I think that the longest part of the character creation process is the buying of equipment. The players roll to determine their starting gold, and after a few hours, they finish calculating how many gold pieces they have left. But some of them get the calculations wrong and I have to check each and every character sheet myself.

One solution would be to give them the starting packages instead of letting them choose their items. However, this would really ruin the character concepts of some players. For example, a player wants a swordsman, but the package gives him an axe.

Another solution would be to borrow an idea from the World of Darkness games and, if I'm not wrong, D20 Modern.

Abstract resources.

In the WoD games, you allocate dots to Resources to determine what your character may or may not have. For example, if you have Resources 3, you could afford a broadsword (I don't have the Dark Ages: Vampire book right now, so I could be wrong). With Resources 5, maybe a keep, complete with servants and guards.

This system does have its flaws. For example, in the Modern Nights, if you're being chased by a werewolf/vampire hunter/whatever, you could just tell the Storyteller that you pull out a cellphone from your pocket and you call for help. In the Dark Ages, you wouldn't have to keep track of your arrows (if you're an archer).

But its main advantage is that it allows the players to focus more on the story by making them spend less time on keeping track of items. It saves a lot of time. A lot.

So, any chance of getting abstract resources implemented in Eberron? Perhaps as an optional rule? What do you think?
GMSteve
10-11-04, 02:57 AM Well for starting PC's I simply let them tally up a starting equipment list and submit for my review and approval. Then as GM I go through and start marking off stuff they can't have. Often its a you can have this but then can't have this -so choose one or the other. This is completly abritrary, but really speeds up the character creation process.

After that I make em keep track of what they have. Having a calculator around sure speeds the process up.
stone_dog
10-11-04, 03:03 AM The wealth rules (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/msrdwealth.rtf) are pretty tempting. I've never used them or seen examples of them being used so I don't know how well weath bonus translates such things as "I will give you 2,000 gold to do a little job."

However it is an interesting thought. Maybe D20 Past will have some insight on wealth in a medival setting.
Save-vs-DM
10-11-04, 03:43 AM I'm in the category of "whatever is reasonable." Basically so long as it costs under 3-5gp, they can have as much as they want, provided it makes sense. Sometimes it's just better to chuck a few of the rules.
CHeers,
Save vs DM
Setherial
10-11-04, 06:15 AM I never really had this problem with my group (never met anyone who counts that bad he can't create a dnd character to be honest taken he knows the rules), ofcourse the entire character building process is a time consuming thing, especially when you work out your character for several levels in ahead. With all the feats and prestige classes you really have to take time to prepare a character (I usually take a few hours to create a good new character)

Anyway, some of the players in my group know the rules by heart and like to make the most optimized, perfect character you can imagine, others don't really care about the character creation part and just like to play an occasional game. For those who don't care that much I usually create a character for them (my girlfriend for instance).

As for weapons, in my last home cooked adventure (8th level characters) I allowed the players to have simple equipment, nothing magical and then in game they could choose a magical item to start with (with only vague clues to what it really did). Made that one item more special then an entire equipmentlist of wonderous items + playing a low magical adventure turned out to be more fun and had easier/faster gameplay .
Things like arrows we never keep track of, neither do we keep track of equipment weight. It makes the game into a math test rather then a fun afternoon.

Finally I never attempted to have the players create a character before a session. I always have them prepare one in advance and have them make me a copy. Character creation is way too special not to take your time for.
Also I noticed when playing with another DM that when he allowed the players to go shop ingame that we easely lost an hour roleplaying shopping and some players got really bored of that. So I try to minimize things like that.
Setherial
10-11-04, 06:15 AM I never really had this problem with my group (never met anyone who counts that bad he can't create a dnd character to be honest taken he knows the rules), ofcourse the entire character building process is a time consuming thing, especially when you work out your character for several levels in ahead. With all the feats and prestige classes you really have to take time to prepare a character (I usually take a few hours to create a good new character)

Anyway, some of the players in my group know the rules by heart and like to make the most optimized, perfect character you can imagine, others don't really care about the character creation part and just like to play an occasional game. For those who don't care that much I usually create a character for them (my girlfriend for instance).

As for weapons, in my last home cooked adventure (8th level characters) I allowed the players to have simple equipment, nothing magical and then in game they could choose a magical item to start with (with only vague clues to what it really did). Made that one item more special then an entire equipmentlist of wonderous items + playing a low magical adventure turned out to be more fun and had easier/faster gameplay .
Things like arrows we never keep track of, neither do we keep track of equipment weight. It makes the game into a math test rather then a fun afternoon.

Finally I never attempted to have the players create a character before a session. I always have them prepare one in advance and have them make me a copy. Character creation is way too special not to take your time for.
Also I noticed when playing with another DM that when he allowed the players to go shop ingame that we easely lost an hour roleplaying shopping and some players got really bored of that. So I try to minimize things like that.
Joseph Amarillo
10-11-04, 06:31 AM To stone_dog:

Do you have a text version of that file? I'm in a cybercafe right now, and downloading is prohibited ("Your security settings blah blah blah do not allow you to do this...").

To the others:

Lucky you. Few of my players have memorized the character creation rules. It's very boring having to guide them slowly through the character creation process.
Setherial
10-11-04, 07:21 AM I never really had this problem with my group (never met anyone who counts that bad he can't create a dnd character to be honest taken he knows the rules), ofcourse the entire character building process is a time consuming thing, especially when you work out your character for several levels in ahead. With all the feats and prestige classes you really have to take time to prepare a character (I usually take a few hours to create a good new character)

Anyway, some of the players in my group know the rules by heart and like to make the most optimized, perfect character you can imagine, others don't really care about the character creation part and just like to play an occasional game. For those who don't care that much I usually create a character for them (my girlfriend for instance).

As for weapons, in my last home cooked adventure (8th level characters) I allowed the players to have simple equipment, nothing magical and then in game they could choose a magical item to start with (with only vague clues to what it really did). Made that one item more special then an entire equipmentlist of wonderous items + playing a low magical adventure turned out to be more fun and had easier/faster gameplay .
Things like arrows we never keep track of, neither do we keep track of equipment weight. It makes the game into a math test rather then a fun afternoon.

Finally I never attempted to have the players create a character before a session. I always have them prepare one in advance and have them make me a copy. Character creation is way too special not to take your time for.
Also I noticed when playing with another DM that when he allowed the players to go shop ingame that we easely lost an hour roleplaying shopping and some players got really bored of that. So I try to minimize things like that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Joseph Amarillo 10-11-04, 02:53 AM	I'm good in Math. In fact, I'm actually going to the USA in a few months to study Computer Science or Math in a Missouri college (not sure yet which one). Thanks to my good Math skills, I've never had problems with calculating skill points, gold pieces, attack bonuses, ability modifiers, etc. Sure, it took a lot longer to create a DnD character than a World of Darkness character, but it wasn't really a problem. And that's when I started DM'ing a group of numerically-challenged players. That's when I discovered just how long it took for them to finish their characters. I had to constantly babysit some of the players because if I didn't, they would get most of the calculations wrong and we'd have to start all over again. I think that the longest part of the character creation process is the buying of equipment. The players roll to determine their starting gold, and after a few hours, they finish calculating how many gold pieces they have left. But some of them get the calculations wrong and I have to check each and every character sheet myself. One solution would be to give them the starting packages instead of letting them choose their items. However, this would really ruin the character concepts of some players. For example, a player wants a swordsman, but the package gives him an axe. Another solution would be to borrow an idea from the World of Darkness games and, if I'm not wrong, D20 Modern. Abstract resources. In the WoD games, you allocate dots to Resources to determine what your character may or may not have. For example, if you have Resources 3, you could afford a broadsword (I don't have the Dark Ages: Vampire book right now, so I could be wrong). With Resources 5, maybe a keep, complete with servants and guards. This system does have its flaws. For example, in the Modern Nights, if you're being chased by a werewolf/vampire hunter/whatever, you could just tell the Storyteller that you pull out a cellphone from your pocket and you call for help. In the Dark Ages, you wouldn't have to keep track of your arrows (if you're an archer). But its main advantage is that it allows the players to focus more on the story by making them spend less time on keeping track of items. It saves a lot of time. A lot. So, any chance of getting abstract resources implemented in Eberron? Perhaps as an optional rule? What do you think?
GMSteve 10-11-04, 02:57 AM	Well for starting PC's I simply let them tally up a starting equipment list and submit for my review and approval. Then as GM I go through and start marking off stuff they can't have. Often its a you can have this but then can't have this -so choose one or the other. This is completly abritrary, but really speeds up the character creation process. After that I make em keep track of what they have. Having a calculator around sure speeds the process up.
stone_dog 10-11-04, 03:03 AM	The wealth rules (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/msrdwealth.rtf) are pretty tempting. I've never used them or seen examples of them being used so I don't know how well weath bonus translates such things as "I will give you 2,000 gold to do a little job." However it is an interesting thought. Maybe D20 Past will have some insight on wealth in a medival setting.
Save-vs-DM 10-11-04, 03:43 AM	I'm in the category of "whatever is reasonable." Basically so long as it costs under 3-5gp, they can have as much as they want, provided it makes sense. Sometimes it's just better to chuck a few of the rules. CHeers, Save vs DM
Setherial 10-11-04, 06:15 AM	I never really had this problem with my group (never met anyone who counts that bad he can't create a dnd character to be honest taken he knows the rules), ofcourse the entire character building process is a time consuming thing, especially when you work out your character for several levels in ahead. With all the feats and prestige classes you really have to take time to prepare a character (I usually take a few hours to create a good new character) Anyway, some of the players in my group know the rules by heart and like to make the most optimized, perfect character you can imagine, others don't really care about the character creation part and just like to play an occasional game. For those who don't care that much I usually create a character for them (my girlfriend for instance). As for weapons, in my last home cooked adventure (8th level characters) I allowed the players to have simple equipment, nothing magical and then in game they could choose a magical item to start with (with only vague clues to what it really did). Made that one item more special then an entire equipmentlist of wonderous items + playing a low magical adventure turned out to be more fun and had easier/faster gameplay . Things like arrows we never keep track of, neither do we keep track of equipment weight. It makes the game into a math test rather then a fun afternoon. Finally I never attempted to have the players create a character before a session. I always have them prepare one in advance and have them make me a copy. Character creation is way too special not to take your time for. Also I noticed when playing with another DM that when he allowed the players to go shop ingame that we easely lost an hour roleplaying shopping and some players got really bored of that. So I try to minimize things like that.
Setherial 10-11-04, 06:15 AM	I never really had this problem with my group (never met anyone who counts that bad he can't create a dnd character to be honest taken he knows the rules), ofcourse the entire character building process is a time consuming thing, especially when you work out your character for several levels in ahead. With all the feats and prestige classes you really have to take time to prepare a character (I usually take a few hours to create a good new character) Anyway, some of the players in my group know the rules by heart and like to make the most optimized, perfect character you can imagine, others don't really care about the character creation part and just like to play an occasional game. For those who don't care that much I usually create a character for them (my girlfriend for instance). As for weapons, in my last home cooked adventure (8th level characters) I allowed the players to have simple equipment, nothing magical and then in game they could choose a magical item to start with (with only vague clues to what it really did). Made that one item more special then an entire equipmentlist of wonderous items + playing a low magical adventure turned out to be more fun and had easier/faster gameplay . Things like arrows we never keep track of, neither do we keep track of equipment weight. It makes the game into a math test rather then a fun afternoon. Finally I never attempted to have the players create a character before a session. I always have them prepare one in advance and have them make me a copy. Character creation is way too special not to take your time for. Also I noticed when playing with another DM that when he allowed the players to go shop ingame that we easely lost an hour roleplaying shopping and some players got really bored of that. So I try to minimize things like that.
Joseph Amarillo 10-11-04, 06:31 AM	To stone_dog: Do you have a text version of that file? I'm in a cybercafe right now, and downloading is prohibited ("Your security settings blah blah blah do not allow you to do this..."). To the others: Lucky you. Few of my players have memorized the character creation rules. It's very boring having to guide them slowly through the character creation process.
Setherial 10-11-04, 07:21 AM	I never really had this problem with my group (never met anyone who counts that bad he can't create a dnd character to be honest taken he knows the rules), ofcourse the entire character building process is a time consuming thing, especially when you work out your character for several levels in ahead. With all the feats and prestige classes you really have to take time to prepare a character (I usually take a few hours to create a good new character) Anyway, some of the players in my group know the rules by heart and like to make the most optimized, perfect character you can imagine, others don't really care about the character creation part and just like to play an occasional game. For those who don't care that much I usually create a character for them (my girlfriend for instance). As for weapons, in my last home cooked adventure (8th level characters) I allowed the players to have simple equipment, nothing magical and then in game they could choose a magical item to start with (with only vague clues to what it really did). Made that one item more special then an entire equipmentlist of wonderous items + playing a low magical adventure turned out to be more fun and had easier/faster gameplay . Things like arrows we never keep track of, neither do we keep track of equipment weight. It makes the game into a math test rather then a fun afternoon. Finally I never attempted to have the players create a character before a session. I always have them prepare one in advance and have them make me a copy. Character creation is way too special not to take your time for. Also I noticed when playing with another DM that when he allowed the players to go shop ingame that we easely lost an hour roleplaying shopping and some players got really bored of that. So I try to minimize things like that.