Action Point Usage Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Action Point Usage Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GrayS
09-08-06, 02:49 AM Did I imagine it, or is there a reference somewhere that says action points can be used to retain a spell in memory after it has been cast, thus allowing the spell to be cast again later? :confused: If I am not imagining it, please can somebody give me the book and page reference?

After all, this function would seem to, sort-of, fit with the bit on page 46 of the ECS that says "...you can spend 2 action points to gain anotehr use of one of the following class features that has a limited number of uses per day..." And what is spell-casting if it isn't a "class features that has a limited number of uses per day"?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Giarc
09-08-06, 04:53 AM It's in the Unearthed Arcana, page 123. Spell Recall.

Since it's in the UA, you'd better make sure your DM will allow it.
Radazim
09-08-06, 08:59 AM My group found this to be far too powerful, especially at higher levels. By 11th level, a caster has 6th level spells and 10 action points. Using an AP to retain a 6th level spell is pretty potent.

Although D&D is designed for ~14 encounters per level, in our campaign it works out to more like half that because we have fewer, tougher fights. The system as written essentially allows casters 1-2 bonus spells (of any level) each fight.

Also, in my opinion this use of APs doesn't fit the Eberron feel of "swashbuckling action"; it's more like having a free supercharged Pearl of Power.

Our solution was to allow a caster to retain a spell at a cost of 1 AP per level of the spell retained. This is far harsher, but was a compromise between eliminating the mechanic altogether and leaving it in its overpowered state.
DragonWatcher
09-08-06, 10:00 AM In general, it seems as though the mechanics for Action Point (AP) in Unearthed Arcana (UA) are more powerful than the use of APs perscribed in the Eberron Campaign Setting. The one example that comes immediately to mind is that by the AP rules in UA, you can spend one AP to gain another Standard or Move Action in a round. However, according to the ECS, you need the Action Surge feat, and even then you need to spend 2 APs to gain the same benefit.

Taking a cue from this example, if you wanted access to this use of APs in Eberron, I would create a feat to use it, and make it cost 2 APs to retain the spell. If a character wants to burn a feat to do this, I think that it could be fair... but I agree that it seems too powerful on its own.
DBlizzard
09-09-06, 12:43 AM In general, it seems as though the mechanics for Action Point (AP) in Unearthed Arcana (UA) are more powerful than the use of APs perscribed in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Indeed, it's been stated that the UA variation was developed first, and they deliberately left out options for Eberron. I'd be very wary about adding back in the UA options (but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it).

Note the similiar ability tied into the feat "Spontaneous Casting" in the setting book. While it lets you swap for any known spell for 2 AP, it only works in swapping out a non-cast spell. I'd say they are of similiar power level. Since this variation costs a feat, I'd say at the very least the UA variant should cost a feat.
Radazim
09-09-06, 11:39 AM Taking a cue from this example, if you wanted access to this use of APs in Eberron, I would create a feat to use it, and make it cost 2 APs to retain the spell. If a character wants to burn a feat to do this, I think that it could be fair... but I agree that it seems too powerful on its own.

I think that would be a good alternative as well. Consider it yoinked.
GrayS
09-13-06, 02:53 AM Thanks Guys,
I just knew I wasn't imagining it. However, just to clear up a slight misconception, I am the DM, and since this rule seems to only be in the UA, which I don't have, it is good news to therefore hear that I don't have to include it in my game!
Cheers.
darkthought
09-14-06, 06:45 PM Thanks Guys,
I just knew I wasn't imagining it. However, just to clear up a slight misconception, I am the DM, and since this rule seems to only be in the UA, which I don't have, it is good news to therefore hear that I don't have to include it in my game!
Cheers.

To be honest, you don't have to allow it in, even if you own the book.

Rule 0.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GrayS 09-08-06, 02:49 AM	Did I imagine it, or is there a reference somewhere that says action points can be used to retain a spell in memory after it has been cast, thus allowing the spell to be cast again later? :confused: If I am not imagining it, please can somebody give me the book and page reference? After all, this function would seem to, sort-of, fit with the bit on page 46 of the ECS that says "...you can spend 2 action points to gain anotehr use of one of the following class features that has a limited number of uses per day..." And what is spell-casting if it isn't a "class features that has a limited number of uses per day"? Thanks in advance for any help.
Giarc 09-08-06, 04:53 AM	It's in the Unearthed Arcana, page 123. Spell Recall. Since it's in the UA, you'd better make sure your DM will allow it.
Radazim 09-08-06, 08:59 AM	My group found this to be far too powerful, especially at higher levels. By 11th level, a caster has 6th level spells and 10 action points. Using an AP to retain a 6th level spell is pretty potent. Although D&D is designed for ~14 encounters per level, in our campaign it works out to more like half that because we have fewer, tougher fights. The system as written essentially allows casters 1-2 bonus spells (of any level) each fight. Also, in my opinion this use of APs doesn't fit the Eberron feel of "swashbuckling action"; it's more like having a free supercharged Pearl of Power. Our solution was to allow a caster to retain a spell at a cost of 1 AP per level of the spell retained. This is far harsher, but was a compromise between eliminating the mechanic altogether and leaving it in its overpowered state.
DragonWatcher 09-08-06, 10:00 AM	In general, it seems as though the mechanics for Action Point (AP) in Unearthed Arcana (UA) are more powerful than the use of APs perscribed in the Eberron Campaign Setting. The one example that comes immediately to mind is that by the AP rules in UA, you can spend one AP to gain another Standard or Move Action in a round. However, according to the ECS, you need the Action Surge feat, and even then you need to spend 2 APs to gain the same benefit. Taking a cue from this example, if you wanted access to this use of APs in Eberron, I would create a feat to use it, and make it cost 2 APs to retain the spell. If a character wants to burn a feat to do this, I think that it could be fair... but I agree that it seems too powerful on its own.
DBlizzard 09-09-06, 12:43 AM	In general, it seems as though the mechanics for Action Point (AP) in Unearthed Arcana (UA) are more powerful than the use of APs perscribed in the Eberron Campaign Setting. Indeed, it's been stated that the UA variation was developed first, and they deliberately left out options for Eberron. I'd be very wary about adding back in the UA options (but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it). Note the similiar ability tied into the feat "Spontaneous Casting" in the setting book. While it lets you swap for any known spell for 2 AP, it only works in swapping out a non-cast spell. I'd say they are of similiar power level. Since this variation costs a feat, I'd say at the very least the UA variant should cost a feat.
Radazim 09-09-06, 11:39 AM	Taking a cue from this example, if you wanted access to this use of APs in Eberron, I would create a feat to use it, and make it cost 2 APs to retain the spell. If a character wants to burn a feat to do this, I think that it could be fair... but I agree that it seems too powerful on its own. I think that would be a good alternative as well. Consider it yoinked.
GrayS 09-13-06, 02:53 AM	Thanks Guys, I just knew I wasn't imagining it. However, just to clear up a slight misconception, I am the DM, and since this rule seems to only be in the UA, which I don't have, it is good news to therefore hear that I don't have to include it in my game! Cheers.
darkthought 09-14-06, 06:45 PM	Thanks Guys, I just knew I wasn't imagining it. However, just to clear up a slight misconception, I am the DM, and since this rule seems to only be in the UA, which I don't have, it is good news to therefore hear that I don't have to include it in my game! Cheers. To be honest, you don't have to allow it in, even if you own the book. Rule 0.