Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NeonWhite 06-06-06, 06:03 PM	There are some skill checks that a DM often makes on behalf of a player, such as spot, search, sense motive, hide or move silently. (Where I play at least), this usually happens when the outcome of a skill check is not immediately known by the character (and hence the player). When the player doesn't know what they rolled on a sense motive check (for example), it helps prevent them unconsciously (or consciously) using the information in the die roll to know whether the NPC was truly trying to mislead them. This is all pretty standard I guess. My question is, how do you handle action points in this context. Usually a player can look at their d20 roll (before the DM informs them of success and failure) and, if the player thinks the roll is borderline and that an action point might tip the balance, they can opt to spent an action point to boost the roll. If the DM is making the roll for them, the player is denied the opportunity to spend an action point, or else has to do so 'blind', thus meaning the action point could easily be wasted. Any suggestions on how to handle this?
Amaril 06-06-06, 07:25 PM	Treat it as normal. If the player wants to use an action point, he needs to indicate such before the DM reveals the result. Personally, I prefer action points to be used without the context of "Oh, I rolled poorly; let me use an action point," effectively turning them into what I call "bailout points." For the record, you make your hide and move silently checks, not the DM. The DM makes opposed rolls. Additionally, action points are supposed to be used for that extra effort, which doesn't apply when simply determining if you happen to hear or see something. The only other skill that the DM makes that I could see applying extra effort for is with Use Rope while setting a grappling hook, but even then, it's more about how the hook happens to land and set rather than how much effort you put into something.
DragonWatcher 06-07-06, 11:11 AM	Personally I agree that on a spot check, etc. if you play where the player is ignorant to the success of their roll, then it only makes sense that they also decide to spend an action point blindly too. They still have a better chance to succeed, but it doesn't change the fact that they don't actually know if they succeed or not.
NeonWhite 06-07-06, 11:23 AM	I was thinking that it may work to allow the player to specify a range where if the DM's roll is within that they may choose to spend an action point. So they may say, "if i roll between 10 and 13, I'll spend an action point, otherwise i won't". This way, the DM can still conceal the roll from them, but the player can choose to spend an action point on marginal rolls in important situations... The DM can reveal whether the action point was spent only after the scene is finished and the PCs have moved on.
Sereno 06-07-06, 01:18 PM	I don't really see it as a problem since I don't think any of my players have used a single action point for anything as mundane as a Spot or Listen check. They tend to save them for boosting combat rolls and when they absolutely need to make a save or use a skill (a Tumble to avoid an AoO, usually). Spot and Listen are really passive skills, anyway, and the idea of using an action point on them kind of goes against the grain of saving them for "heroics."