Action Points and Party Unity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Action Points and Party Unity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lazaro
07-06-06, 12:05 AM After taking over the helm of DM after our last DM left I decided to run an Eberron game. My group was excited to try something new (they've been playing FR since I meet'em) and after readin my ECS they fell in loved with the idea of action points tp modify rolls and using them to get out of tight situations. But after DMing for 2 months no one has used them. They told me they just cant find a use for them/they dont remember about them. How can I get my players excited about using Action points?

Now on to my second question/problem. The group I am DMing there were only two PC's, J and his wife. Now being that they were experienced players I decided to run the AoW path. Well in week 2 of the campaign J's cousin, Set, joined the group. Other than being a bit of a rules lawyers I had no problem, he played a very charasmatic and hilarious changling. Well the third week came and it happened Set's rogue feel into a trap and died a very painful death.
After making a new character, a shaper, and introducing him into the party his style of play changed. Gone was the guy who liked to rp everything. In his stead was a new person who thumbed his nose at everthing he thought was not an offical "rule". He became very interested in my dice rolling and started to make sure I wasn't cheating. Though he won't admit it he thinks I'm out to get him and kill everyone.
In our 6th session Set's character split up from the party and made his way down into a mine they were trying to bribe their way into. Well his character made it about 40 feet into the mine, when a group of miners stopped him and said he couldn't go any further. After rping for a min he came to the conclusion that bribing them was the best thing to do, but to do so would be beneith his character. So he told them, "You can all go to Dolurrh, you bunch of demon worshipping blackguards", began to attack them. His character believed that worshipping gods and using magic was "evil". Well the miners ganged up on him and stole his coin purse in the end.
When the rest of the group found him he blamed them for not being there to help him and me for letting him be in that kind of situation. So after 5 mins of talking it over he decided to attack and kill all the miners and pcs. Now I know I shouldve have booted him right then and there but I didn't...shame on me.
Well after some thinking I thought we could restart using the Forgotten Forge and the other modules. But now I'm running into more issues. When the remade there characters I allowed the make gesalt characters. J's wife had no problem in making hers (a fighter), but J and Set went a whole other route. Instead of trying to fill niche, they made their pc's to top the others...just in case they had to kill each other :headexplo . In the end my new party looks like this...
J (ninja/rog2), Sandy (ftr/rog2), and Set (Mnk/warlock2). J took stealth route so he could sneak up on Set. And, Set took this path because A) he tought it'd be cool, and B) so he could get see the unseen so J couldnt sneak up on him with his ghost step ability.
After finishing the Forgotten Forge the pc's found a mysterious gem(a warp stone I placed for them to use later on in the adventure mods). Well after trying to detect magic on it Set's character feel unconscious, and at which point J's character stole the gem. J told Set's character he dropped it when he feel unconscious and lost it.
Fast forward to 2 days ago. While in Rose Quarry the group alerted the camp of EC soldiers and by the end of the encounter J was dead. Set was in negs. And Sandy left them all in her dust, she ran back to the land cart.
I just can't seem to get this party back to where it was. No one trusts the other. They only make theire characters to likk the others now, Sandy being the exception. And they call me on the days we're not gaming to get my opinion on what skills and feats they should get to hose the others.
Is this totally a lost cause? Am I just to blind to see this will not work? Is there hope?
Elemental_Elf
07-06-06, 12:57 AM Darn.,.that.sucks.totally.hard.!.!.

Seriously, that does suck.

Anyways, IMO you went the right route in trying to fix the problem via a new campaign with a published Advanture. But it didn'twork, obviously. :weep:

So how to bring the group back together.... Well you could rail road them into playing 3 of the 4 archtypal classes in D&D (Warrior, Thief, mage and Priest) and by Railroad I mean force or rather choose for them. Then start a simplistic campaign, you're standard, run of the mill kinda interesting yet sorta clishe style campaign. Finally put a small threat out into the minds of the pcs that you aren't having fun and if the campaign goes sour then you'll quit being the dm. This oughta shock them into submission as loosing the DM is never good as well as jolting them into realizing what they have been doing is totally bad and ruins everything.

I hope you resolve this! :(
a_psh
07-06-06, 01:19 AM Well, to answer the easy part:They told me they just cant find a use for them/they dont remember about them. How can I get my players excited about using Action points?Here's one thing to try:
Whenever a PC makes an attack roll that looks like it's just borderline between hitting and missing or whenever he must save against any kind of even remotely perilous effect, say, before you resolve the effect, "Do you want to use an action point?"

One or two sessions of that tends to make them pretty aware of when action points can be useful.
Korhal_IV
07-06-06, 03:22 AM I'd suggest cooling it on the campaign for a short bit. Play some other games, maybe, and have a chat about hostility between players. If you don't want to DM for a surly, disintegrating party, then don't. If they value the game more than their rivalry, they'll put it aside for the sake of the game. If not, well, you have your answer.
Lazaro
07-06-06, 04:36 PM Well It looks like we are going to take a break from me running and let Set run for a bit. The only grudge we have now is Set thinks it's unfair that we both have the same modules and that I may meta-game :rant: . This just goes from bad to worse, I swear... Anywho, when they're ready for me to DM again I'll run a simpler mod like the Sunless Citadel and just adapt it to Eberron.
Melvin the Mediocre
07-06-06, 04:45 PM I think you all should play Paranoia for a session or two to let everyone have a laugh and get it out of their system.
Gurv
07-06-06, 05:25 PM Your players suck. If you can't talk to them and get this to stop, then just find new players. It stinks, but these guys aren't there to roleplay.

As far as action points, there are a few ways to make players use them more often. Higher level PCs tend to have the most use for them, IMO, simply because they make more rolls and because they have more abilities. You could introduce new things to do with them (Unearthed Arcana has a section about it), or allow feats that permit it. You seem to have a lot of PC deaths: one house rule I have works sort of like the Defensive Roll special ability. Spend an AP to activate it when you would otherwise be dead, but instead of rolling a Reflex save to avoid the damage, the AP automatically brings you to -10hp and stabilizes you. It's a good option for players who are in love with their characters.

Give AP to your NPCs. Maybe not all of them, or as many, but do it. Announce when you use them. That will show your players how useful they can be.

Do you do XP by the book, or do you ad hoc? I explained to my players that I give a base reward dependant on what they did (monsters killed, traps bypassed, etc.) and then figured out bonus XP based on how much effort they put into it. Walking out of an encounter with full hit points, spells, AP, etc., meant the encounter was too easy. Nowadays, my players know that having tons of AP left over when they level means that I'll figure things were not challenging enough. Less reward, and things get tougher.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lazaro 07-06-06, 12:05 AM	After taking over the helm of DM after our last DM left I decided to run an Eberron game. My group was excited to try something new (they've been playing FR since I meet'em) and after readin my ECS they fell in loved with the idea of action points tp modify rolls and using them to get out of tight situations. But after DMing for 2 months no one has used them. They told me they just cant find a use for them/they dont remember about them. How can I get my players excited about using Action points? Now on to my second question/problem. The group I am DMing there were only two PC's, J and his wife. Now being that they were experienced players I decided to run the AoW path. Well in week 2 of the campaign J's cousin, Set, joined the group. Other than being a bit of a rules lawyers I had no problem, he played a very charasmatic and hilarious changling. Well the third week came and it happened Set's rogue feel into a trap and died a very painful death. After making a new character, a shaper, and introducing him into the party his style of play changed. Gone was the guy who liked to rp everything. In his stead was a new person who thumbed his nose at everthing he thought was not an offical "rule". He became very interested in my dice rolling and started to make sure I wasn't cheating. Though he won't admit it he thinks I'm out to get him and kill everyone. In our 6th session Set's character split up from the party and made his way down into a mine they were trying to bribe their way into. Well his character made it about 40 feet into the mine, when a group of miners stopped him and said he couldn't go any further. After rping for a min he came to the conclusion that bribing them was the best thing to do, but to do so would be beneith his character. So he told them, "You can all go to Dolurrh, you bunch of demon worshipping blackguards", began to attack them. His character believed that worshipping gods and using magic was "evil". Well the miners ganged up on him and stole his coin purse in the end. When the rest of the group found him he blamed them for not being there to help him and me for letting him be in that kind of situation. So after 5 mins of talking it over he decided to attack and kill all the miners and pcs. Now I know I shouldve have booted him right then and there but I didn't...shame on me. Well after some thinking I thought we could restart using the Forgotten Forge and the other modules. But now I'm running into more issues. When the remade there characters I allowed the make gesalt characters. J's wife had no problem in making hers (a fighter), but J and Set went a whole other route. Instead of trying to fill niche, they made their pc's to top the others...just in case they had to kill each other :headexplo . In the end my new party looks like this... J (ninja/rog2), Sandy (ftr/rog2), and Set (Mnk/warlock2). J took stealth route so he could sneak up on Set. And, Set took this path because A) he tought it'd be cool, and B) so he could get see the unseen so J couldnt sneak up on him with his ghost step ability. After finishing the Forgotten Forge the pc's found a mysterious gem(a warp stone I placed for them to use later on in the adventure mods). Well after trying to detect magic on it Set's character feel unconscious, and at which point J's character stole the gem. J told Set's character he dropped it when he feel unconscious and lost it. Fast forward to 2 days ago. While in Rose Quarry the group alerted the camp of EC soldiers and by the end of the encounter J was dead. Set was in negs. And Sandy left them all in her dust, she ran back to the land cart. I just can't seem to get this party back to where it was. No one trusts the other. They only make theire characters to likk the others now, Sandy being the exception. And they call me on the days we're not gaming to get my opinion on what skills and feats they should get to hose the others. Is this totally a lost cause? Am I just to blind to see this will not work? Is there hope?
Elemental_Elf 07-06-06, 12:57 AM	Darn.,.that.sucks.totally.hard.!.!. Seriously, that does suck. Anyways, IMO you went the right route in trying to fix the problem via a new campaign with a published Advanture. But it didn'twork, obviously. :weep: So how to bring the group back together.... Well you could rail road them into playing 3 of the 4 archtypal classes in D&D (Warrior, Thief, mage and Priest) and by Railroad I mean force or rather choose for them. Then start a simplistic campaign, you're standard, run of the mill kinda interesting yet sorta clishe style campaign. Finally put a small threat out into the minds of the pcs that you aren't having fun and if the campaign goes sour then you'll quit being the dm. This oughta shock them into submission as loosing the DM is never good as well as jolting them into realizing what they have been doing is totally bad and ruins everything. I hope you resolve this! :(
a_psh 07-06-06, 01:19 AM	Well, to answer the easy part:They told me they just cant find a use for them/they dont remember about them. How can I get my players excited about using Action points?Here's one thing to try: Whenever a PC makes an attack roll that looks like it's just borderline between hitting and missing or whenever he must save against any kind of even remotely perilous effect, say, before you resolve the effect, "Do you want to use an action point?" One or two sessions of that tends to make them pretty aware of when action points can be useful.
Korhal_IV 07-06-06, 03:22 AM	I'd suggest cooling it on the campaign for a short bit. Play some other games, maybe, and have a chat about hostility between players. If you don't want to DM for a surly, disintegrating party, then don't. If they value the game more than their rivalry, they'll put it aside for the sake of the game. If not, well, you have your answer.
Lazaro 07-06-06, 04:36 PM	Well It looks like we are going to take a break from me running and let Set run for a bit. The only grudge we have now is Set thinks it's unfair that we both have the same modules and that I may meta-game :rant: . This just goes from bad to worse, I swear... Anywho, when they're ready for me to DM again I'll run a simpler mod like the Sunless Citadel and just adapt it to Eberron.
Melvin the Mediocre 07-06-06, 04:45 PM	I think you all should play Paranoia for a session or two to let everyone have a laugh and get it out of their system.
Gurv 07-06-06, 05:25 PM	Your players suck. If you can't talk to them and get this to stop, then just find new players. It stinks, but these guys aren't there to roleplay. As far as action points, there are a few ways to make players use them more often. Higher level PCs tend to have the most use for them, IMO, simply because they make more rolls and because they have more abilities. You could introduce new things to do with them (Unearthed Arcana has a section about it), or allow feats that permit it. You seem to have a lot of PC deaths: one house rule I have works sort of like the Defensive Roll special ability. Spend an AP to activate it when you would otherwise be dead, but instead of rolling a Reflex save to avoid the damage, the AP automatically brings you to -10hp and stabilizes you. It's a good option for players who are in love with their characters. Give AP to your NPCs. Maybe not all of them, or as many, but do it. Announce when you use them. That will show your players how useful they can be. Do you do XP by the book, or do you ad hoc? I explained to my players that I give a base reward dependant on what they did (monsters killed, traps bypassed, etc.) and then figured out bonus XP based on how much effort they put into it. Walking out of an encounter with full hit points, spells, AP, etc., meant the encounter was too easy. Nowadays, my players know that having tons of AP left over when they level means that I'll figure things were not challenging enough. Less reward, and things get tougher.