Post/Author/DateTime	Post
exploding_brain 05-24-05, 03:42 PM	So a player rolls a d20, and has to decide whether or not to add an action die. As long as the player doesn’t know for sure if he’s succeeded or failed, that’s fine. But what about situations where the player knows the DC he’s shooting for. For instance, casting on the defensive. The DC is 15 + spell level. There’s no way for the player not to know if the d20 roll is a success or failure. Does this mean that a player can never add an action die to a concentration check to cast on the defensive? How about the DC 15 tumble check to avoid an AoO? What about attack rolls when you already know the opponent’s AC? For instance, three PCs are attacking monster. The rolls a total attack of 21, and misses. The gets a total attack of 22, and hits. The third rolls well enough to hit AC 20. Can the third player add an action point to that roll? When I play with my friends, we use the following rule for the first situation. If you know the DC that you are trying to beat with a skill check, you must roll your action die simultaneously with your d20. Strictly speaking, I think that’s against the rules, because you’re supposed to roll your action die(ce) after you roll your d20. How do you handle these kinds of situations in your games?
ekomega 05-24-05, 04:27 PM	It's a tough call. I would let my PCs do it and err on the side of caution, since if they are bothering to use an action point it must be a difficult situation. Better to have them know to use an AP for Concentration than getting an AoO and dying. As for the AC issue, well, that's sort of a metagame issue and I don't think the PCs are supposed to act on stuff their players know. That said, the players will anyway. Still better to err on the side of caution. If they are desperate enough to use an AP to attack a monster, it probably should get used.
Gurv 05-24-05, 04:35 PM	When I play with my friends, we use the following rule for the first situation. If you know the DC that you are trying to beat with a skill check, you must roll your action die simultaneously with your d20. Strictly speaking, I think that’s against the rules, because you’re supposed to roll your action die(ce) after you roll your d20. Technically, you are not supposed to roll AP if you know the DC required to succeed. Your house rule sounds perfectly reasonable. I wouldn't worry about it too much. As long as the players are not sitting around using calculators to figure out whether the AP is worth using or not, it isn't a big deal.
MarkB 05-24-05, 04:57 PM	When I play with my friends, we use the following rule for the first situation. If you know the DC that you are trying to beat with a skill check, you must roll your action die simultaneously with your d20. Strictly speaking, I think that’s against the rules, because you’re supposed to roll your action die(ce) after you roll your d20. No. You can do, and if you don't know how much you need, it's safer to do it that way, in case your roll is so bad (or good) that an Action Die wouldn't influence it significantly - but there's nothing in the rules preventing you from rolling the action die simultaneously with your d20 roll if you want to. As for combat, you can get pretty certain what AC you need to beat, but unless the DM tells you explicitly, you can't be certain, even from other players' results. Maybe that 21 missed because the creature's AC is 22 - but maybe it missed because the opponent has the Dodge feat, and specified your friend's character; or maybe it's actually a mount for a Diminuitive creature you haven't spotted, who has the Mounted Combat feat and just made a phenomenal Ride check. You can never be absolutely sure of all the factors at play in a combat, so you can justifiably claim to be unaware of the target AC even if you've been keeping track of previous attacks. Personally, I'm still trying to get my players used to using APs, and wouldn't want to do anything to encourage them. I've taken to leaving long pauses before replying when a player rolls just under the required AC and immediately asks if it's a hit. Most of them still don't catch on.
Siberys 05-24-05, 05:09 PM	Yeah. I actually make my players role the AP die with the d20 - a lot less confusing for me; I often blurt out if it was a hit or miss as soon as I see the roll.
Graywolf 05-24-05, 05:29 PM	Yeah. I actually make my players role the AP die with the d20 - a lot less confusing for me; I often blurt out if it was a hit or miss as soon as I see the roll. Yeah, our DM used to do that a lot. It's actually somewhat entertaining as this is now the first group I've been in where the players point and yell "Shut up!" to the Dm whenever he tries to do that anymore. :D
Dragonmann 05-24-05, 06:19 PM	A simple guideline I am trying to move towards with the group I run for is that action points require action. I try not to let them say "oh I missed, I spend an action point" instead requiring "Just before his parry stops my blade, I drop to one knee bringing my sword below his gaurd." Unfortunatley I have a first time gamer, and a old school wargame in my group and the thought of roleplay is difficult for both of them, so I have to be less strict then I want to be. An alternate solution is to roll the dice for questionable situations yourself. My group has a real problem with every time I ask for a spot check, they assume action is about to begin. And they have been known to blow AP on spot rolls. FOr spot checks (or concentration checks) make the roll for them behind you screen and tell them they rolled low (1-7) average (8-13) or high (14-20) and let them decide based of their skill and roll if they want to spend an AP.
DBlizzard 05-24-05, 06:36 PM	One of my very few house rules is I'll tell players whether they succeed or fail before they decide to spend an action point. To me, it doesn't encourage the heroic feel to be gambling with spending a point. Action points are supposed to represent heroes succeeding when the odds are against them. Gambling by spending a point when you might have succeeded doesn't have that feel for me.
drasticale 05-24-05, 06:40 PM	One of my very few house rules is I'll tell players whether they succeed or fail before they decide to spend an action point. To me, it doesn't encourage the heroic feel to be gambling with spending a point. Action points are supposed to represent heroes succeeding when the odds are against them. Gambling by spending a point when you might have succeeded doesn't have that feel for me. I agree, totally... If, no... when, I DM a group for Eberron that lasts more than one session... I'll be using this as a house rule.
Crimsonsun 05-25-05, 01:20 AM	Our group is pretty good about spending points. I usually dont spend too many of my points on d20 rolls, saving them instead I need to do an infusion RIGHT NOW. We do have one character who tends to have very big bursts of heroic action, and then nothing for quite a while (aka he's about to level and doesnt want to lose his unused AP ;) )
Ravenscroft 05-26-05, 05:25 AM	As a player i use Action Points mostly to confirm a critical (usually when facing some Uber-Bad NPC) or to make a saving throw , that to fail at that moment would be bad. As a DM i never tell players the DC , but they generally have a good idea. If the Fighter gets a good roll and misses , probably you might need to use an AP to hit. Action Surge feat (for that extra attack) combined with Haste is a good way to take down Uber-Bads. I often ask my players at what may/maynot be a Critical point if they want to use an AP (this is not to make players use them up , but to try to highlight a tense situation).