Adamantine Body after 1st level? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adamantine Body after 1st level? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ImmortalBlueMage
04-02-05, 08:12 PM So the Warforged Samuria just hit level 3 and he wants to take Adamantine Body. His previous AC of 12 was pretty abysmal and made it impossible for him to fill his roll as frontline fighter, but of course, as we all know, a Warforged can't get an Adamantine body, he has to be "born" with it. Be that as it may, I'm willing to let him go for it (partly because he was not aware of the Feat's existance at character creation and I feel as though I should have kept him more informed about his options. He doesn't own the ECS as this is his first Eberron campaign), but naturally I'm not going to just throw it at him for free. He has to earn it.

So, the first thing to consider, how is this even possible? What sort of procedure could a Warforged undergo to so radically alter it's body? I've already worked out the "why" of the matter (in the last game he was struck a nearly fatal blow with a magical sword of Sundering. Technically you can't Sunder Warforged's natural armor, but it's a cool idea, so we'll let that slide and say he has to have himself all but rebuilt or his Sundered body will eventually fail him), and it's not hard to figure out who he'd have to go to to commission his new body, since he's a Samurai charged with the care and protection of a House Cannith heir, just a matter of figuring out the nuts, bolts, and elemental bonds of the matter

Second to consider, and perhaps most important, what's this going to cost him? Obviously this will probably be a small fortune in GP, far more than any level 3 character can afford, so he'll owe this debt for the rest of his natural life, but of course it goes without saying they're going to ask more than just money. What would make such an exorbinant procedure really worth their while?

I'm open to any suggestions. I'm making a big exception for him here, so almost nothing's too tough to be fair.
Edymnion
04-02-05, 08:17 PM There is another way.
There is a Warforged Artifact, Torque of something, don't remember what off the top of my head. Basically, if a WF is wearing one when it dies, it's conciousness is transfered into the Torque, and can be transfered into a new body later on.

Have there be someone with one of these that would be willing to let him use it to transfer into a new body, or perhaps make it a side quest. He's almost out of it, not much use in a fight, but the rest of the team can go to look for one for him.
ImmortalBlueMage
04-02-05, 10:26 PM That's very similar to the idea I was going with, of having him die and be ressed in a new body, sort of a Warforged Reincarnation spell. Is this Torque thing in the ECS? I skipped most of the part about Warforged custom upgrades.
Gurv
04-02-05, 10:32 PM As far as cost, I would use the cost of adamantite full plate. He ends up paying a feat, plus the cost a human character would pay for the same thing, and the armor feat isn't as impressive.

The price covers the cost of the material and work (warforged need less special material to reinforce what is already there, but it takes more work to get it done). Also have it take time equal to the creation of a suit of adamantite plate mail as well.

The Torc of Preservation is on page 270 of the ECS. It is an artifact, however, with great power for abuse. I wouldn't use this alternative unless you have some adventures planned around such a device.
Edymnion
04-02-05, 10:49 PM The Torc of Preservation is on page 270 of the ECS. It is an artifact, however, with great power for abuse. I wouldn't use this alternative unless you have some adventures planned around such a device.Yes, its not something you want to give to the players, especially not at that level. However, if you can get an NPC to own the item, an NPC that can make sure the players are incapable of taking it from him, or find a way for the item to be lost or destroyed after that one use, then it could work out okay.

And BTW, your Samurai player DOES know Adm Body will slow him down a lot, right? I'd probably want to go for Mithril Body, if I were him...
Chiba_Monkey
04-03-05, 12:55 AM I toyed with this idea for awhile myself. Namely b/c I saw the AB feat as too powerful for a first level character (my views have changed a bit since then, btw). My idea was to POSSIBLY make it possible for a WF character to be "re-forged" with the Adamantine. It would involve a major quest, also require finding a Forgehold still in operation, and then the agreement of someone who possesed the skill and knowledge to do it.

Like Merrix d'Cannith in Sharn. Who would still require some incentive to do reforge a WF instead of continuing his hobby of making more

This would also take up a feat slot (if it occured mid-level, I would either warn the player in advance so he had a feat slot open, or it would take the place of his next feat choice). So...that's one plan.
ImmortalBlueMage
04-03-05, 01:51 AM Hmm, an Artifact, yeah, that's definitely out...
Kalanth
04-03-05, 03:39 AM I personally like the idea of having the sundered armor. This provides the oportunity for role playing in the dept to the house. However, I too agree that the Samurai should not go for Adamantium. Mythral is more effective for that particular kind of character. Now, if he were a straight slug and thug fighter type that cared nothing about speed and such, then its no big for adamantium.
DarkWarriorKarg
04-03-05, 10:33 AM A quest for a re-creation forge, somewhere in Xendrix. Where drow warriors can pelt him with many poisoned darts.
Simon Jester
04-04-05, 12:43 AM The Torc of Preservation as an artifact is far too powerful, I agree.

But what about a single-use prototype created by House Cannith? IIRC the backstory on the ToP is that its only likely to be found in Xen'drik. This sounds exactly like something House Cannith would be trying to emulate. The Cannith smiths would especially be trying to do something like this now that the creation forges have (supposedly) been shut down. Since its a prototype, they would be far more likely to be willing to let the PC to test it out. Give it some side effects that the Cannith smiths simply didn't know about, or DID know about and thought they had fixed, or DID know about, DIDN'T fix but thought were "interesting."

Best bet is simply to run it like a combined Raise Dead/Reincarnate spell specific for Warforged, but have fun with some of the side effects (Wand of Wonder or Bag of Tricks rolls come to mind).

Simon Jester :devil:
Von Ether
04-04-05, 09:11 AM Here's a crazy idea:

Player: "Hey, my fighter hasn't been the best has he?"

GM: "nope."

Player: "I didn't know about the Adamite/Mithral feats. Can I just retool my character?"

GM: "No problem."

I'm not big into "in-game" solutions that cause more problems than they solve or waste a lot of time I don't really have. Just let the player retool and then game on.

As a side note, I give my players a heads up on any race/class specifict feats and gear when I game. It helps avoid situations like yours. Imagine if the player had picked a Shifter?
Cloud Divider
04-04-05, 04:50 PM Do you want to be an Evil GM?

If so, one option you've got is to give the Lord of Blades access to that artifact (or a damaged-but-repaired-we-think), or something similar.

The LoB could indirectly offer this body-swapping service to your PC. If he's direct, then the strings attached could be pretty obvious ("We rebuild your body, you feed us information from time to time"). If the LoB is using an intermediary (or three) the strings could be MUCH more subtle. I'm imagining an Eldritch Device that not only allows the mind/spirit/etc transfer, but also has an effect like a minor mind seed - ie the PC gets a little bit of "reprogramming" (or subliminal brainwashing, if you prefer) during the mind transfer to make them a bit of a sleeper agent for the LoB. The combination of kewl powers + nasty strings attached sounds like a pretty good zero-sum to me (ie player doesn't have to burn the feat).

The PC's position (bodyguard to a Cannith heir) makes this a particularly appealing bit of subterfuge on the LoB's part. Which is also a good reason why if there IS any reprogramming going on, it should be subtle. What the LoB WOULDN'T do is just send the PC berserk in the Cannith compound (or do the equivalent of a cortex bomb). He'd be FAR more useful as a deeply embedded information source. The easier it is for the spy to stay hidden, the better...

For instance, the Warforged may just find that after the procedure, he's got rather more restlessness than he used to - and he stays up and walks around the city all night...and he just happens to wander by some dead drops (in spy lingo, a place to leave goods/information/microdots/etc for later pickup by the contact) and leaves some information behind...

Or a more subtle version - the PC feels "inspired" to keep a detailed journal after the procedure; he keeps this journal with him all the time. He's also gained a habit of going by a certain warforged "body shop" ("gotta keep the chrome polished!"), where the journal is perused by the LoB's agents while the Warforged Samurai is being worked on by the artificer...

It'd make for a pretty tasty little plot device, I think. That said, I think I'd be at least a little up front with the player, OOC, about the nature of the deal ("Just so you know, there's strings attached to this...strings that may be attached to potentially very unpleasant people. You still want to go through with it?").

It's a pretty common "cyberpunk-y" theme to sell yourself out for some keen gear and then discover they've got some nasty strings attached...

...Also, even with all that said, I have to admit I agree with the previous poster who suggested just allowing the player (who built his character in ignorance and made some pretty major errors) to readjust his Feats. I mean, on some level, it's the GM's fault for not having noticed such a major oversight ("Uh, you're a warforged frontline fighter...and you don't have a Body Feat? Did you do that on purpose?").
Save-vs-DM
04-04-05, 08:23 PM Here's an odd idea.

Introduce a waforged who has begun to study wizardry. He has a beautiful adamatine body, strongly powerful. The unfortunate aspect is that it is really ruining his chances to become a wizard. Now, this wizard happens to notice that your friends body is much more caster friendly. So he proposes a body switch using a new spell he has created. They get to trade bodies, effectively.

This way you don't have a powerful artificact lying around, and you introduce an NPC who can act as a patron and the character will owe a huge boon too (but not too big).

I really wouldn't be too harsh on the guy, it is a game, really. Plus this provides all sorts of roleplaying opportunities down the line with this wizard, as he becomes a great plot hook for the warforged.

Cheers,
Save vs DM
zambuka
04-04-05, 09:03 PM Second to consider, and perhaps most important, what's this going to cost him? Obviously this will probably be a small fortune in GP, far more than any level 3 character can afford, so he'll owe this debt for the rest of his natural life, but of course it goes without saying they're going to ask more than just money. What would make such an exorbinant procedure really worth their while?

There is also the option of getting his body enchanted, encourage your player to follow this path. A trip to a Cannith workshop and a favour or two should be all that is needed to get this enchanting done. A +1 is not outside price range of a 3rd level character (1000gp), +2 shouldn't be either. Plus it gives him the option to add other interesting effects.

Or you could just make a magic item, a component that attaches and grants the adamantine body feat. Of course this thing would be very expensive, quite unique, the result of a long and dangerous journey into the depths of Xen'Drik, and the envy of any number of not so nice 'forged out there (ongoing plot device that hooks into LoB). Essentially this path makes him work hard to gain and keep what is effectively a free feat.
ImmortalBlueMage
04-05-05, 05:32 AM If so, one option you've got is to give the Lord of Blades access to that artifact (or a damaged-but-repaired-we-think), or something similar.

Funny, I had that exact same idea. It works even better for this particular character, who's not particularly worldly and generally lets his House Cannith Lords lead him around by the nose. He (Player and Character) doesn't even have a clue who the Lord of Blades is, so it would be pretty easy to lure him into a devil's bargain that will come back to bite him many times over.

Here's a crazy idea:

Player: "Hey, my fighter hasn't been the best has he?"

GM: "nope."

Player: "I didn't know about the Adamite/Mithral feats. Can I just retool my character?"

GM: "No problem."

Lol, that's really not a bad idea either. I tend to keep a tight leash on things like this because, well, if I cut this guy a break, then the other players might start asking special favors too, bending rules here and there, which can get out of hand pretty fast, especially when it comes to Feats.
Makabriel
04-05-05, 01:40 PM Lol, that's really not a bad idea either. I tend to keep a tight leash on things like this because, well, if I cut this guy a break, then the other players might start asking special favors too, bending rules here and there, which can get out of hand pretty fast, especially when it comes to Feats.

I always consider the first few levels or so as trial levels. Letting the players get a feel for the character, their role in th group, etc. During this time they have opportunities to "respec" as they see fit... to an extent, of course. Thiings like class changes and ability changes are subject to denial.

For instance, my Kalashtar player has the option to change things around as soon as the Races of Eberron book comes out, considering the info in the ECS was... lacking :D
Von Ether
04-05-05, 02:37 PM Lol, that's really not a bad idea either. I tend to keep a tight leash on things like this because, well, if I cut this guy a break, then the other players might start asking special favors too, bending rules here and there, which can get out of hand pretty fast, especially when it comes to Feats.

Oh, I understand. You have to know your group. I had something similar come up (a player who decided she felt much more comfortable as a wizard compared to an artificer). To make it as fair as possible, I offered to let everyone change out classes (but not race or PC concept) if they wanted to at the next level. It was only when I offered to let people jump to that next level in between adventures, regardless of XP, that things went south among my players who had two or three levels between them.

Of course the guy who made the biggest stink about the jump being unfair to lower level PC suggested that everyone start out the same level (which would have been unfair to the high level PCs). His PC was in between.

We reached a middle ground by giving everyone a lump sum of XP that got boosted everyone a level except the lowest level level guy who got two.

After all that, the whiner left anyway, much to everyone's relief. Sometimes it just takes a firm and fair hand and problems take care of themselves.
Streamweaver
04-05-05, 05:15 PM I'm not sure I'd personally allow a player to take the feat after 1st level. Mostly because rules are already in place to accomplish this. Warforged can wear armor just like anyone else, all they really have to do is buy a set of adamantite armor.

If you really want them to take the feat because of cost or story issues though I'd make a quest for it. You could have information come to teh player that the Lord of Blades had developed a process for adamantie plating of Warforged after creation. This could involved some challenging roleplaying issues as well. Perhaps Merix d'Cannith (sp?) is doing something like this instead, what would he ask of a player to do this for them? How about some sort of magic item? Perhaps some kind of adhearing plating from Xendrik or something like it?
ImmortalBlueMage
04-06-05, 03:06 AM Actually, the sticking point of the matter is that WF can't wear armor.

From ECS, page 23: "...composite plating occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a Warforged cannot wear armor or magical robes."

I had actually forgotten that rule too until this character was rolled up.

Of course, there are other ways to improve AC, but at level 3 most are outside the price range and/or power level, leaving him with only a +2 AC bonus from composite plating and a rather meager 11 Dexterity (and yes, I've thought of letting him switch around Ability scores, but the only thing to do really would be to take away his high Strength or Constitution scores, which would just be trading one set of problems for another really).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ImmortalBlueMage 04-02-05, 08:12 PM	So the Warforged Samuria just hit level 3 and he wants to take Adamantine Body. His previous AC of 12 was pretty abysmal and made it impossible for him to fill his roll as frontline fighter, but of course, as we all know, a Warforged can't get an Adamantine body, he has to be "born" with it. Be that as it may, I'm willing to let him go for it (partly because he was not aware of the Feat's existance at character creation and I feel as though I should have kept him more informed about his options. He doesn't own the ECS as this is his first Eberron campaign), but naturally I'm not going to just throw it at him for free. He has to earn it. So, the first thing to consider, how is this even possible? What sort of procedure could a Warforged undergo to so radically alter it's body? I've already worked out the "why" of the matter (in the last game he was struck a nearly fatal blow with a magical sword of Sundering. Technically you can't Sunder Warforged's natural armor, but it's a cool idea, so we'll let that slide and say he has to have himself all but rebuilt or his Sundered body will eventually fail him), and it's not hard to figure out who he'd have to go to to commission his new body, since he's a Samurai charged with the care and protection of a House Cannith heir, just a matter of figuring out the nuts, bolts, and elemental bonds of the matter Second to consider, and perhaps most important, what's this going to cost him? Obviously this will probably be a small fortune in GP, far more than any level 3 character can afford, so he'll owe this debt for the rest of his natural life, but of course it goes without saying they're going to ask more than just money. What would make such an exorbinant procedure really worth their while? I'm open to any suggestions. I'm making a big exception for him here, so almost nothing's too tough to be fair.
Edymnion 04-02-05, 08:17 PM	There is another way. There is a Warforged Artifact, Torque of something, don't remember what off the top of my head. Basically, if a WF is wearing one when it dies, it's conciousness is transfered into the Torque, and can be transfered into a new body later on. Have there be someone with one of these that would be willing to let him use it to transfer into a new body, or perhaps make it a side quest. He's almost out of it, not much use in a fight, but the rest of the team can go to look for one for him.
ImmortalBlueMage 04-02-05, 10:26 PM	That's very similar to the idea I was going with, of having him die and be ressed in a new body, sort of a Warforged Reincarnation spell. Is this Torque thing in the ECS? I skipped most of the part about Warforged custom upgrades.
Gurv 04-02-05, 10:32 PM	As far as cost, I would use the cost of adamantite full plate. He ends up paying a feat, plus the cost a human character would pay for the same thing, and the armor feat isn't as impressive. The price covers the cost of the material and work (warforged need less special material to reinforce what is already there, but it takes more work to get it done). Also have it take time equal to the creation of a suit of adamantite plate mail as well. The Torc of Preservation is on page 270 of the ECS. It is an artifact, however, with great power for abuse. I wouldn't use this alternative unless you have some adventures planned around such a device.
Edymnion 04-02-05, 10:49 PM	The Torc of Preservation is on page 270 of the ECS. It is an artifact, however, with great power for abuse. I wouldn't use this alternative unless you have some adventures planned around such a device.Yes, its not something you want to give to the players, especially not at that level. However, if you can get an NPC to own the item, an NPC that can make sure the players are incapable of taking it from him, or find a way for the item to be lost or destroyed after that one use, then it could work out okay. And BTW, your Samurai player DOES know Adm Body will slow him down a lot, right? I'd probably want to go for Mithril Body, if I were him...
Chiba_Monkey 04-03-05, 12:55 AM	I toyed with this idea for awhile myself. Namely b/c I saw the AB feat as too powerful for a first level character (my views have changed a bit since then, btw). My idea was to POSSIBLY make it possible for a WF character to be "re-forged" with the Adamantine. It would involve a major quest, also require finding a Forgehold still in operation, and then the agreement of someone who possesed the skill and knowledge to do it. Like Merrix d'Cannith in Sharn. Who would still require some incentive to do reforge a WF instead of continuing his hobby of making more This would also take up a feat slot (if it occured mid-level, I would either warn the player in advance so he had a feat slot open, or it would take the place of his next feat choice). So...that's one plan.
ImmortalBlueMage 04-03-05, 01:51 AM	Hmm, an Artifact, yeah, that's definitely out...
Kalanth 04-03-05, 03:39 AM	I personally like the idea of having the sundered armor. This provides the oportunity for role playing in the dept to the house. However, I too agree that the Samurai should not go for Adamantium. Mythral is more effective for that particular kind of character. Now, if he were a straight slug and thug fighter type that cared nothing about speed and such, then its no big for adamantium.
DarkWarriorKarg 04-03-05, 10:33 AM	A quest for a re-creation forge, somewhere in Xendrix. Where drow warriors can pelt him with many poisoned darts.
Simon Jester 04-04-05, 12:43 AM	The Torc of Preservation as an artifact is far too powerful, I agree. But what about a single-use prototype created by House Cannith? IIRC the backstory on the ToP is that its only likely to be found in Xen'drik. This sounds exactly like something House Cannith would be trying to emulate. The Cannith smiths would especially be trying to do something like this now that the creation forges have (supposedly) been shut down. Since its a prototype, they would be far more likely to be willing to let the PC to test it out. Give it some side effects that the Cannith smiths simply didn't know about, or DID know about and thought they had fixed, or DID know about, DIDN'T fix but thought were "interesting." Best bet is simply to run it like a combined Raise Dead/Reincarnate spell specific for Warforged, but have fun with some of the side effects (Wand of Wonder or Bag of Tricks rolls come to mind). Simon Jester :devil:
Von Ether 04-04-05, 09:11 AM	Here's a crazy idea: Player: "Hey, my fighter hasn't been the best has he?" GM: "nope." Player: "I didn't know about the Adamite/Mithral feats. Can I just retool my character?" GM: "No problem." I'm not big into "in-game" solutions that cause more problems than they solve or waste a lot of time I don't really have. Just let the player retool and then game on. As a side note, I give my players a heads up on any race/class specifict feats and gear when I game. It helps avoid situations like yours. Imagine if the player had picked a Shifter?
Cloud Divider 04-04-05, 04:50 PM	Do you want to be an Evil GM? If so, one option you've got is to give the Lord of Blades access to that artifact (or a damaged-but-repaired-we-think), or something similar. The LoB could indirectly offer this body-swapping service to your PC. If he's direct, then the strings attached could be pretty obvious ("We rebuild your body, you feed us information from time to time"). If the LoB is using an intermediary (or three) the strings could be MUCH more subtle. I'm imagining an Eldritch Device that not only allows the mind/spirit/etc transfer, but also has an effect like a minor mind seed - ie the PC gets a little bit of "reprogramming" (or subliminal brainwashing, if you prefer) during the mind transfer to make them a bit of a sleeper agent for the LoB. The combination of kewl powers + nasty strings attached sounds like a pretty good zero-sum to me (ie player doesn't have to burn the feat). The PC's position (bodyguard to a Cannith heir) makes this a particularly appealing bit of subterfuge on the LoB's part. Which is also a good reason why if there IS any reprogramming going on, it should be subtle. What the LoB WOULDN'T do is just send the PC berserk in the Cannith compound (or do the equivalent of a cortex bomb). He'd be FAR more useful as a deeply embedded information source. The easier it is for the spy to stay hidden, the better... For instance, the Warforged may just find that after the procedure, he's got rather more restlessness than he used to - and he stays up and walks around the city all night...and he just happens to wander by some dead drops (in spy lingo, a place to leave goods/information/microdots/etc for later pickup by the contact) and leaves some information behind... Or a more subtle version - the PC feels "inspired" to keep a detailed journal after the procedure; he keeps this journal with him all the time. He's also gained a habit of going by a certain warforged "body shop" ("gotta keep the chrome polished!"), where the journal is perused by the LoB's agents while the Warforged Samurai is being worked on by the artificer... It'd make for a pretty tasty little plot device, I think. That said, I think I'd be at least a little up front with the player, OOC, about the nature of the deal ("Just so you know, there's strings attached to this...strings that may be attached to potentially very unpleasant people. You still want to go through with it?"). It's a pretty common "cyberpunk-y" theme to sell yourself out for some keen gear and then discover they've got some nasty strings attached... ...Also, even with all that said, I have to admit I agree with the previous poster who suggested just allowing the player (who built his character in ignorance and made some pretty major errors) to readjust his Feats. I mean, on some level, it's the GM's fault for not having noticed such a major oversight ("Uh, you're a warforged frontline fighter...and you don't have a Body Feat? Did you do that on purpose?").
Save-vs-DM 04-04-05, 08:23 PM	Here's an odd idea. Introduce a waforged who has begun to study wizardry. He has a beautiful adamatine body, strongly powerful. The unfortunate aspect is that it is really ruining his chances to become a wizard. Now, this wizard happens to notice that your friends body is much more caster friendly. So he proposes a body switch using a new spell he has created. They get to trade bodies, effectively. This way you don't have a powerful artificact lying around, and you introduce an NPC who can act as a patron and the character will owe a huge boon too (but not too big). I really wouldn't be too harsh on the guy, it is a game, really. Plus this provides all sorts of roleplaying opportunities down the line with this wizard, as he becomes a great plot hook for the warforged. Cheers, Save vs DM
zambuka 04-04-05, 09:03 PM	Second to consider, and perhaps most important, what's this going to cost him? Obviously this will probably be a small fortune in GP, far more than any level 3 character can afford, so he'll owe this debt for the rest of his natural life, but of course it goes without saying they're going to ask more than just money. What would make such an exorbinant procedure really worth their while? There is also the option of getting his body enchanted, encourage your player to follow this path. A trip to a Cannith workshop and a favour or two should be all that is needed to get this enchanting done. A +1 is not outside price range of a 3rd level character (1000gp), +2 shouldn't be either. Plus it gives him the option to add other interesting effects. Or you could just make a magic item, a component that attaches and grants the adamantine body feat. Of course this thing would be very expensive, quite unique, the result of a long and dangerous journey into the depths of Xen'Drik, and the envy of any number of not so nice 'forged out there (ongoing plot device that hooks into LoB). Essentially this path makes him work hard to gain and keep what is effectively a free feat.
ImmortalBlueMage 04-05-05, 05:32 AM	If so, one option you've got is to give the Lord of Blades access to that artifact (or a damaged-but-repaired-we-think), or something similar. Funny, I had that exact same idea. It works even better for this particular character, who's not particularly worldly and generally lets his House Cannith Lords lead him around by the nose. He (Player and Character) doesn't even have a clue who the Lord of Blades is, so it would be pretty easy to lure him into a devil's bargain that will come back to bite him many times over. Here's a crazy idea: Player: "Hey, my fighter hasn't been the best has he?" GM: "nope." Player: "I didn't know about the Adamite/Mithral feats. Can I just retool my character?" GM: "No problem." Lol, that's really not a bad idea either. I tend to keep a tight leash on things like this because, well, if I cut this guy a break, then the other players might start asking special favors too, bending rules here and there, which can get out of hand pretty fast, especially when it comes to Feats.
Makabriel 04-05-05, 01:40 PM	Lol, that's really not a bad idea either. I tend to keep a tight leash on things like this because, well, if I cut this guy a break, then the other players might start asking special favors too, bending rules here and there, which can get out of hand pretty fast, especially when it comes to Feats. I always consider the first few levels or so as trial levels. Letting the players get a feel for the character, their role in th group, etc. During this time they have opportunities to "respec" as they see fit... to an extent, of course. Thiings like class changes and ability changes are subject to denial. For instance, my Kalashtar player has the option to change things around as soon as the Races of Eberron book comes out, considering the info in the ECS was... lacking :D
Von Ether 04-05-05, 02:37 PM	Lol, that's really not a bad idea either. I tend to keep a tight leash on things like this because, well, if I cut this guy a break, then the other players might start asking special favors too, bending rules here and there, which can get out of hand pretty fast, especially when it comes to Feats. Oh, I understand. You have to know your group. I had something similar come up (a player who decided she felt much more comfortable as a wizard compared to an artificer). To make it as fair as possible, I offered to let everyone change out classes (but not race or PC concept) if they wanted to at the next level. It was only when I offered to let people jump to that next level in between adventures, regardless of XP, that things went south among my players who had two or three levels between them. Of course the guy who made the biggest stink about the jump being unfair to lower level PC suggested that everyone start out the same level (which would have been unfair to the high level PCs). His PC was in between. We reached a middle ground by giving everyone a lump sum of XP that got boosted everyone a level except the lowest level level guy who got two. After all that, the whiner left anyway, much to everyone's relief. Sometimes it just takes a firm and fair hand and problems take care of themselves.
Streamweaver 04-05-05, 05:15 PM	I'm not sure I'd personally allow a player to take the feat after 1st level. Mostly because rules are already in place to accomplish this. Warforged can wear armor just like anyone else, all they really have to do is buy a set of adamantite armor. If you really want them to take the feat because of cost or story issues though I'd make a quest for it. You could have information come to teh player that the Lord of Blades had developed a process for adamantie plating of Warforged after creation. This could involved some challenging roleplaying issues as well. Perhaps Merix d'Cannith (sp?) is doing something like this instead, what would he ask of a player to do this for them? How about some sort of magic item? Perhaps some kind of adhearing plating from Xendrik or something like it?
ImmortalBlueMage 04-06-05, 03:06 AM	Actually, the sticking point of the matter is that WF can't wear armor. From ECS, page 23: "...composite plating occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a Warforged cannot wear armor or magical robes." I had actually forgotten that rule too until this character was rolled up. Of course, there are other ways to improve AC, but at level 3 most are outside the price range and/or power level, leaving him with only a +2 AC bonus from composite plating and a rather meager 11 Dexterity (and yes, I've thought of letting him switch around Ability scores, but the only thing to do really would be to take away his high Strength or Constitution scores, which would just be trading one set of problems for another really).