Adamantine price/pound [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adamantine price/pound [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lognor
08-03-06, 01:02 AM I was curious.... I have looked through the DMG and through some other books on the Topic of adamantine.... and have not found any information on what it woudl be worth by the pound... as a feature to a Room in this ancient dungeon I placed a Large Anvil.... that proved to be made of Adamantine... all 1000lbs of it.. that was resting at the bottom of a 60 foot pit.... thinking this was more than my players could possibly find a way to move... However.. much to my surprise.. they figured out a way of moving said 1000lbs of Adamantine... now we need to know what its worth.... Does anyone know..? Im guessing its worth more than platinum which is 500gp/lb.. since it is Ultra rare...
Thanqol
08-03-06, 02:05 AM My take on adamantine:
It's so hard because once it's forged, it can't be reforged - ergo, your players have to find someone who wants to buy a 1000lb anvil.

Alternative:
Adamantine isn't a type of metal, it's a way to forge that metal, making it ultra-hard - which is why it has a 'by item type' cost rather than 'by pound' cost.
Kreistor1
08-03-06, 11:25 AM If you use steel as a model, iron is a minute fraction of the cost of a longsword. Adamantine can be modelled on the steel method instead of the precious metals method. All the value is in the manufacturing method, not the raw material.

1 pound of iron is 1sp.

A 4lb longsword is 15GP. 4sp/15GP = 2.6%. Only 2.6% of the longsword's final price is the cost of the raw material.

An Adamantine longsword weighs the same but costs 3015GP. If we use the same 2.6% model, then the 4lbs of Admantine raw material cost 80.4GP, or 20GP per pound.

Making the anvil worth 20KGP at most.

You could also bring the price down further because it had been already forged and isn't in its raw state, making it more difficult to retrieve teh raw materials. I disagree with the previous poster that it can't be reforged, because that makes it repairable only by magic if the weapon or armor is damaged.
Evangelos
08-03-06, 11:58 AM That isn't necessarily a valid comparison, though.

With the longsword, you're paying 14.6 gp for labor and so the guy can make a profit. You could also look at it and say that only 14.6 gp of the cost is labor, and the other 3100 gp or so is for the materials.

Realistically? The forging process is more specialized and costs more money. I don't think that 500 gp/pound is an unreasonable estimate.

One question, though...since adamantite is so rare, why the heck would anyone want to use so much of it to make an anvil?
Lognor
08-03-06, 12:21 PM The Anvil in Question was being used by a Giant Master Smith and his apprentices and such... that liked to work with adamantine.. (was known to be THE person to go to for adamantine Item creation) and found his anvils were aften destroyed in the process of trying to work the Ultra hard Metal... So he forged himself an anvil that would not break down no matter how long it was used... it then passed from Master smith to Master smith... and was eventually lost and forgotten.
ekomega
08-03-06, 12:28 PM I like to take the "adamantine is not worth anything, it's the skill of the craftsman who makes it valuable".

The books support this in that an adamantine dagger is 3004 gp (around there), and an adamantine greatsword is slightly more than 3000 gp (3015?). Clearly a greatsword weighs much more than a dagger, and yet the prices for a dagger and greatsword only vary by 10 to 20 gp.

Of course, this is due to the +3000 modifier for adamantine. But they could've easily made that a sliding scale for bigger and smaller weapons. They didn't.

So I figure adamantine as a raw material is worth something, but not very much. The smith who forges it really imparts the value to the item because he can create it. A finished adamantine thing has value, not the ore.

I also take the "only forged once" approach, so that once it's made, it can't be turned into anything else. So I'd make my players find a buyer for an anvil.

Although, as a DM, why would you place something potentially extremely valuable in a dungeon if you didn't want the PCs to have it? My PCs will strip the walls bare if they think there's money to be had.
Kreistor1
08-03-06, 02:54 PM True, ekomega. That's a good way of looking at it. It would make adamantine worth pretty much the same as iron though.
Kinger
08-03-06, 06:00 PM It may be worth more than iron due to other factors (rarity, difficulty mining, etc.), just not enough to make an anvil made from the stuff worth more than, oh... Breland.
Edymnion
08-03-06, 06:32 PM I personally say in my games that adamantine is a once forged alloy. The pure metal, adamantium is rather soft, too soft to make anything useful out of. However, when you melt it down and alloy it with molten iron, you create adamantine. As long as you keep it hot, it doesn't set up (aka, as long as you keep it at forging temperatures). Once it cools down to room temperature, the alloy sets, and after that it can't be reshaped.

So yeah, I would rule that they have a 10,000 pound adamantine anvil. They can't melt it back down for the metal, and they can't reshape it. If they can find somebody that wants a giant indestructible anvil, more power to 'em. I'd suggest trying to convince one of the historical societies that its valuable and sell it to them.
ArcTan
08-03-06, 06:50 PM I personally say in my games that adamantine is a once forged alloy. The pure metal, adamantium is rather soft, too soft to make anything useful out of. However, when you melt it down and alloy it with molten iron, you create adamantine. As long as you keep it hot, it doesn't set up (aka, as long as you keep it at forging temperatures). Once it cools down to room temperature, the alloy sets, and after that it can't be reshaped.

So yeah, I would rule that they have a 10,000 pound adamantine anvil. They can't melt it back down for the metal, and they can't reshape it. If they can find somebody that wants a giant indestructible anvil, more power to 'em. I'd suggest trying to convince one of the historical societies that its valuable and sell it to them.

Yeah, that's about akin to how adamant*ium* is treated in Marvel. It's a good, interesting way to explain why adamantine things are so expensive to get without making adamantite itself so rare that you wonder how these things exist in the first place.

In real life, "adamantine" refers to diamond, corundum or other gemstones which are, indeed, very very hard to make into anything, with the advantage being, of course, that they are very very hard. A diamond-edged blade makes a decent real-life representation of what I picture an adamantine sword being -- with the same idea that it's not really getting the materials that's hard (diamonds, in fact, are surprisingly common in non-gemstone form) but shaping it.
Edymnion
08-03-06, 10:19 PM In real life, "adamantine" refers to diamond, corundum or other gemstones which are, indeed, very very hard to make into anything, with the advantage being, of course, that they are very very hard.Close, but not quite true.

There is no "real life" word for adamantine or adamantium, they are both metallic sounding derivatives from the root word "Adamant", which means hard and unyeilding. The origins of the word go back to ancient greece, where it was indeed used to refer to a diamond, but it did not mean diamond. Adamant was a mythical material, the hardest of them all. Whatever the hardest thing of the time was could be referred to as adamant, which was usually a diamond because it could cut/scratch anything else.

:)
ArcTan
08-03-06, 10:38 PM True, but the term "adamantine luster", for instance, is still used to refer to the luster that comes from diamond, corundum and other gemstones. And the words "diamond" and "adamant" are, after all, related.

Adamant usually referred to corundum or quartz (or maybe steel) in ancient Greece -- the idea being that only in mythology could the super-hard mineral actually be made into a metallic, steel-like substance, while in real life you found it as bits and pieces of stone -- and only referred to diamonds once they became relatively well known (not until after the Hellenistic Age when they started trading with Africa).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lognor 08-03-06, 01:02 AM	I was curious.... I have looked through the DMG and through some other books on the Topic of adamantine.... and have not found any information on what it woudl be worth by the pound... as a feature to a Room in this ancient dungeon I placed a Large Anvil.... that proved to be made of Adamantine... all 1000lbs of it.. that was resting at the bottom of a 60 foot pit.... thinking this was more than my players could possibly find a way to move... However.. much to my surprise.. they figured out a way of moving said 1000lbs of Adamantine... now we need to know what its worth.... Does anyone know..? Im guessing its worth more than platinum which is 500gp/lb.. since it is Ultra rare...
Thanqol 08-03-06, 02:05 AM	My take on adamantine: It's so hard because once it's forged, it can't be reforged - ergo, your players have to find someone who wants to buy a 1000lb anvil. Alternative: Adamantine isn't a type of metal, it's a way to forge that metal, making it ultra-hard - which is why it has a 'by item type' cost rather than 'by pound' cost.
Kreistor1 08-03-06, 11:25 AM	If you use steel as a model, iron is a minute fraction of the cost of a longsword. Adamantine can be modelled on the steel method instead of the precious metals method. All the value is in the manufacturing method, not the raw material. 1 pound of iron is 1sp. A 4lb longsword is 15GP. 4sp/15GP = 2.6%. Only 2.6% of the longsword's final price is the cost of the raw material. An Adamantine longsword weighs the same but costs 3015GP. If we use the same 2.6% model, then the 4lbs of Admantine raw material cost 80.4GP, or 20GP per pound. Making the anvil worth 20KGP at most. You could also bring the price down further because it had been already forged and isn't in its raw state, making it more difficult to retrieve teh raw materials. I disagree with the previous poster that it can't be reforged, because that makes it repairable only by magic if the weapon or armor is damaged.
Evangelos 08-03-06, 11:58 AM	That isn't necessarily a valid comparison, though. With the longsword, you're paying 14.6 gp for labor and so the guy can make a profit. You could also look at it and say that only 14.6 gp of the cost is labor, and the other 3100 gp or so is for the materials. Realistically? The forging process is more specialized and costs more money. I don't think that 500 gp/pound is an unreasonable estimate. One question, though...since adamantite is so rare, why the heck would anyone want to use so much of it to make an anvil?
Lognor 08-03-06, 12:21 PM	The Anvil in Question was being used by a Giant Master Smith and his apprentices and such... that liked to work with adamantine.. (was known to be THE person to go to for adamantine Item creation) and found his anvils were aften destroyed in the process of trying to work the Ultra hard Metal... So he forged himself an anvil that would not break down no matter how long it was used... it then passed from Master smith to Master smith... and was eventually lost and forgotten.
ekomega 08-03-06, 12:28 PM	I like to take the "adamantine is not worth anything, it's the skill of the craftsman who makes it valuable". The books support this in that an adamantine dagger is 3004 gp (around there), and an adamantine greatsword is slightly more than 3000 gp (3015?). Clearly a greatsword weighs much more than a dagger, and yet the prices for a dagger and greatsword only vary by 10 to 20 gp. Of course, this is due to the +3000 modifier for adamantine. But they could've easily made that a sliding scale for bigger and smaller weapons. They didn't. So I figure adamantine as a raw material is worth something, but not very much. The smith who forges it really imparts the value to the item because he can create it. A finished adamantine thing has value, not the ore. I also take the "only forged once" approach, so that once it's made, it can't be turned into anything else. So I'd make my players find a buyer for an anvil. Although, as a DM, why would you place something potentially extremely valuable in a dungeon if you didn't want the PCs to have it? My PCs will strip the walls bare if they think there's money to be had.
Kreistor1 08-03-06, 02:54 PM	True, ekomega. That's a good way of looking at it. It would make adamantine worth pretty much the same as iron though.
Kinger 08-03-06, 06:00 PM	It may be worth more than iron due to other factors (rarity, difficulty mining, etc.), just not enough to make an anvil made from the stuff worth more than, oh... Breland.
Edymnion 08-03-06, 06:32 PM	I personally say in my games that adamantine is a once forged alloy. The pure metal, adamantium is rather soft, too soft to make anything useful out of. However, when you melt it down and alloy it with molten iron, you create adamantine. As long as you keep it hot, it doesn't set up (aka, as long as you keep it at forging temperatures). Once it cools down to room temperature, the alloy sets, and after that it can't be reshaped. So yeah, I would rule that they have a 10,000 pound adamantine anvil. They can't melt it back down for the metal, and they can't reshape it. If they can find somebody that wants a giant indestructible anvil, more power to 'em. I'd suggest trying to convince one of the historical societies that its valuable and sell it to them.
ArcTan 08-03-06, 06:50 PM	I personally say in my games that adamantine is a once forged alloy. The pure metal, adamantium is rather soft, too soft to make anything useful out of. However, when you melt it down and alloy it with molten iron, you create adamantine. As long as you keep it hot, it doesn't set up (aka, as long as you keep it at forging temperatures). Once it cools down to room temperature, the alloy sets, and after that it can't be reshaped. So yeah, I would rule that they have a 10,000 pound adamantine anvil. They can't melt it back down for the metal, and they can't reshape it. If they can find somebody that wants a giant indestructible anvil, more power to 'em. I'd suggest trying to convince one of the historical societies that its valuable and sell it to them. Yeah, that's about akin to how adamantium is treated in Marvel. It's a good, interesting way to explain why adamantine things are so expensive to get without making adamantite itself so rare that you wonder how these things exist in the first place. In real life, "adamantine" refers to diamond, corundum or other gemstones which are, indeed, very very hard to make into anything, with the advantage being, of course, that they are very very hard. A diamond-edged blade makes a decent real-life representation of what I picture an adamantine sword being -- with the same idea that it's not really getting the materials that's hard (diamonds, in fact, are surprisingly common in non-gemstone form) but shaping it.
Edymnion 08-03-06, 10:19 PM	In real life, "adamantine" refers to diamond, corundum or other gemstones which are, indeed, very very hard to make into anything, with the advantage being, of course, that they are very very hard.Close, but not quite true. There is no "real life" word for adamantine or adamantium, they are both metallic sounding derivatives from the root word "Adamant", which means hard and unyeilding. The origins of the word go back to ancient greece, where it was indeed used to refer to a diamond, but it did not mean diamond. Adamant was a mythical material, the hardest of them all. Whatever the hardest thing of the time was could be referred to as adamant, which was usually a diamond because it could cut/scratch anything else. :)
ArcTan 08-03-06, 10:38 PM	True, but the term "adamantine luster", for instance, is still used to refer to the luster that comes from diamond, corundum and other gemstones. And the words "diamond" and "adamant" are, after all, related. Adamant usually referred to corundum or quartz (or maybe steel) in ancient Greece -- the idea being that only in mythology could the super-hard mineral actually be made into a metallic, steel-like substance, while in real life you found it as bits and pieces of stone -- and only referred to diamonds once they became relatively well known (not until after the Hellenistic Age when they started trading with Africa).