Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sorreahdarkhart 06-18-07, 12:43 AM	Now apparently Savage Tide gets no love from a lot of groups, but it reintroduced me back to Dungeons and Dragons again, so it gets some credit from me. I looked over the Savage Tide Player's Guide, and it doesn't even hint at conversion notes for Eberron or Forgotten Realms. Now since this isn't the Forgotten Realms board, but the Eberron, I'm just wondering how the Savage Tide adventure path translates to the Eberron setting. I can see several easy solutions for places, such as Sasserine being in Q'barra, and the Isle of Dread being a major locale in Xen'drik, but I really can't place how the Savage Tide's black pearls would originate from, as they're created by Demogorgon, and he doesn't exist in Eberron. And I can't really see Dolurrh acting as a replacement for the Abyss. Perhaps Xoriat would be a better choice? I'm not terribly keen on converting adventures to campaign settings, so any help is appreciated.
Rechan 06-18-07, 12:54 AM	Perhaps Demogorgon could be some powerful entity in Kythri or Mabar?
sorreahdarkhart 06-18-07, 01:35 AM	You've got a good point. Demogorgon is a chaotic little guy, he'd probably fit right in Kythri. The question then would be what would he be? As much as I'd like his twin headed baboon-dino form, it doesn't sit well with me. I'd like to picture him akin to a rakshasa who suffers from split personality sydrome, perhaps due to his lengthy stay in Kythri, and then makes it his home soon thereafter? Yes, I understand that means changing Demogorgon from a baboon-dino thing to a (what I think is more intimidating) tiger-humanoid who's utterly deranged. It just sounds more fun to me anyways.
Paulon 06-18-07, 01:57 AM	There are some conversion notes for the earlier episodes of the Savage Tide on the Paizo site. http://paizo.com/dungeon/news
Rechan 06-18-07, 02:12 PM	Well, Rakshasa are LE by nature. Most if not all outsiders (native or not) are composed purely OF their alignment. So something that changed him to CE would definitely be drastic. Perhaps he was imprisoned for a short time, and his prison happened to be a manifest zone to Kythri, and the continual exposure while he was "dormant" effected him. He also might have been exiled there by the other Lords of Dust, given that he couldn't be trusted (as far as they can trust, that is) or he was a hazard to their existance. His irrational plots and activities were drawing too much attention to them.
Amaril 06-18-07, 03:11 PM	Would demogorgon make an aopropriate inhabitant of Xoriat.
mhacdebhandia 06-18-07, 09:24 PM	Keith Baker's conversion notes - linked by Paulon upthread - are very good. I'm using them myself. To summarise: Demogorgon becomes a powerful unique fiend from the Age of Demons, greater than the rakshasas and other demons who comprise the Lords of Dust but less powerful than the rajahs themselves. While the Lords of Dust seek to free their masters, Demogorgon seeks to assume their power for himself. Demogorgon's realm, and the other Abyssal locations featured in the Adventure Path, become "pocket dimensions" within Khyber itself. Khyber is much more than simply the subterranean Underdark - it contains much more than the physical size of the planet would imply, and there are places in Khyber which are virtually impossible to reach without planes-travelling magic or knowledge of its secret pathways. Sasserine is located on the southern side of the southernmost island of the Lhazaar Principalities, just below Lorghalen and very close to the southeastern corner of Q'barra. It's not really a part of the Principalities proper, due to its having been kept secluded from the outside world by its historical ruling dynasty and then by the Sea Princes (a loose alliance of Lhazaarite pirate lords) who overthrew them and exploited the island and the city until their sudden assassination at the end of the Last War. Sasserine was founded by Sarlonan refugees from the nation of Lamecha, and many older religious traditions survive in the city - most notably, worship of the Sovereign of Light and Darkness, who replaces Wee Jas, and whom Vassals of the Sovereign Host would see as a conflation of Aureon and the Keeper. The Scarlet Brotherhood in Sasserine becomes the Inspired, helping to rebuild the city's links with the outside world and forge closer ties with Riedra. It's rumoured that Riedra was behind the fall of the Sea Princes, but - unlike the open involvement of the Scarlet Brotherhood in the Adventure Path as written - this is only a theory. Since Riedra doesn't engage in slavery, the Scarlet Brotherhood slavers in the third adventure could become either Lhazaar pirates associated with Prince Mika's Cloudreavers, or Seren barbarians on a raid. The Isle of Dread - located in the Dragonreach - was settled by Sarlonans from the nation of Khunan, and the destruction of Thanaclan in the first savage tide went unnoticed amid the chaos and war that paved the way for the coming of the Inspired. The Olmans of the Isle of Dread should be called Khunans, but can otherwise be used unchanged. Scuttlecove is a city in southern Q'barra, though many assume that the Crimson Fleet must be another pirate fleet from the Lhazaar Principalities. You could replace Adderport in Q'barra with Scuttlecove, perhaps, but I think I will make Sekorvia (the island Scuttlecove was built on) a separate little island, perhaps one of the two small islands found in Adder Bay, immediately south of Pitchwall and east of Norinath in Valenar. Once you leave Scuttlecove, you're heading into the Abyss - I think that, given the separations that exist between the various realms of the demon lords already, it won't be hard to rework them as separate pocket dimensions within Khyber, created and ruled by powerful fiends such as Demogorgon.
sorreahdarkhart 06-19-07, 12:00 AM	Damn. That summary of the conversion notes sounds absolutely fabulous. That makes what I'm going to say so hard to say out of (mostly) shame, really. I was considering the ideas at my job today (I seem to be most productive when I'm working, go figure), and while I didn't get much of a chance to see the posts here (when I last left this, only Rechan had posted), this is what I thought: --I pretty much came to a similar conclusion as Rechan did when I thought of Demogorgon as a rakshasa. He was temporarily imprisioned there, and during that time, he went mad from the sheer chaos of the plane. However, his madness gives him control over a small part of the plane, where he makes his lair later and plots to destroy Eberron. --I also came to the conclusion Demogorgon would be an excellent daelkyr. Which then makes his home plane Xoriat. I'm wondering if he should be imprisioned in Khyber in such a situation, which makes the pocket planes reality, or find a way that he can touch Eberron from the now sealed plane of Xoriat. I'll have to take a closer look at those conversion notes. I like what I hear from it, but what been formulated too sounds pretty cool. Maybe an amalgamation is in order?
mahavira 06-19-07, 12:39 AM	While I have the disadvantage of only having read peripheral materials relating to the Savage Tide, I found the concept interesting enough that I actually sketched out an entire campaign based on the concept. Xendrik seemed like a good setting, particularly because Secrets of Xendrik mentions one theory as to why no large civilization replaced the giants was outbreaks of homocidal madness, which seems savage tidelike to me. I made Demogorgon an ASPECT of an imprisoned Rajah, freed when the giants blew Dal Quor out of orbit. He uses a chunk of Dal Quor and his own powers to taint Siberys shards (replacing blood pearls, if I understand their function properly). I isolated Stormreach from the mainland by having Dagon and Pazuzu (lord of dust scale minions of the Rajah or perhaps other aspects of the same Rajah) agitate the Sahuagin and drive birds mad to interfere with sea and air routes (my opening was a flock of seaguls swarming over the pilot of the PCs airship a la Hitchcock's The Birds) respectively.
sorreahdarkhart 06-19-07, 01:09 AM	That sounds pretty cool too. Although when you get to the Isle of Dread in the adventure segment, it seems that the PCs operate in a fairly small radius (I have to double check this, as I am not certain) around the Isle of Dread itself. Now you mention an airship, so there shouldn't be a problem with creating some islands nearby so you can have some of the other adventures take place. I'd believe you'd need at least 2, one for Scuttlecove (?, is that the right one?) and one for Ermagg's dominion.
mahavira 06-19-07, 01:22 AM	There actually seem to be quite a lot of islands on the south side of Xendrik, and even if you wanted to put some to the north or east of the continent, it's not like there's sattelite mapping. Most ships probably take the routes to Xendrik their Sahuagin guides let them take, so with the exception of some reckless explorers or pirates, it's possible there are any number of islands around Xendrik nobody knows about. Alternately the island could be on a manifest zone and only actually there during certain celestial conjunctions.
mhacdebhandia 06-19-07, 03:54 AM	There are four distinct locations you would need to place in Eberron: Sasserine - Keith places this on the southernmost island of the Lhazaar Principalities chain. The Isle of Dread, upon which is found the destroyed city-state of Thanaclan and the new colony of Farshore - Keith places this in the Dragonreach. Scuttlecove - Keith places this in "southern Q'barra", although Paizo haven't published conversion notes for "Serpents of Scuttlecove" yet. Gaping Maw and other locations in the Abyss - Keith places them as extradimensional realms within the depths of Khyber. Placing the Isle of Dread in close proximity to Xen'drik works, but you have to account for the fact that Lavinia Vanderboren's parents founded the colony of Farshore there. It can't be too hard to find - no winking in and out of existence, or anything! Not without changing things, anyway. The Crimson Fleet of Scuttlecove also needs to be able to find the place fairly easily, given their involvement in Demogorgon's plot. Here are direct links to the conversion notes on Paizo's website. Each file includes the Forgotten Realms conversion notes by Eric Boyd and the Eberron conversion notes by Keith Baker: There Is No Honour (http://paizo.com/dungeonissues/SavageTide/SavageTide_conversion.pdf) (Dungeon #139) The Bullywug Gambit (http://paizo.com/dungeonissues/SavageTide/SavageTideConversion2.pdf) (Dungeon #140) The Sea Wyvern's Wake (http://paizo.com/dungeonissues/SavageTide/SavageTideConversion3.pdf) (Dungeon #141) Here There Be Monsters (http://paizo.com/dungeonissues/SavageTide/SavageTideConversion4.pdf) (Dungeon #142) They're already up to #148, but the conversion notes for the remaining adventures are on the backburner at Paizo for the time being because they're finishing up Dragon and Dungeon while in the process of launching Pathfinder . . . even something as seemingly simple as a page or two of notes from Eric and Keith is too big a job to get through the production process just yet.
mhacdebhandia 06-19-07, 04:32 AM	For the record: Sasserine features in "There Is No Honour" and "The Bullywug Gambit". The PCs leave Sasserine in "The Sea Wyvern's Wake" for the long journey to the Isle of Dread, hugging the coastline for a while (Keith's conversion notes have them sticking to the Q'barra coast) before turning into the open sea and heading for the Isle of Dread itself. The Sea Wyvern is wrecked on the shores of the Isle of Dread at the conclusion of that adventure, and "Here There Be Monsters" picks up with the party making their way around to the other side of the island to the colony of Farshore, their original destination. "Tides of Dread" begins as the PCs arrive at Farshore to find it under attack by pirates of the Crimson Fleet, and then they have two months to shore up the colony with supplies and allies before the pirates return in greater numbers. Assuming they successfully repel the attack, "The Lightless Depths" requires the PCs to discover the source of the shadow pearls, which turns out to be the ancient aboleth city of Golismorga deep beneath the island - directly below the shattered Olman city of Thanaclan. Putting a stop to the production of the pearls requires not only a disruption of the process in Golismorga, but also in Thanaclan itself - the subject of "City of Broken Idols", wherein the PCs face and defeat Khala the Two-Headed, an aspect of Demogorgon who oversees the second phase of the shadow pearl production process. Defeating Khala leads to the discovery that many shadow pearls have already been sent to the Crimson Fleet in Scuttlecove - the same location to which Lavinia Vanderboren has been abducted while the PCs were delving beneath the Isle of Dread. The PCs chase their patron and the shadow pearls there in "Serpents of Scuttlecove", but defeating the Crimson Fleet merely points them towards Demogorgon's realm. "Into the Maw" involves rescuing Lavinia from Demogorgon's prison isle, Divided's Ire, and finishing her brother Vanthus off once and for all. "Wells of Darkness" is, by all accounts (I haven't received my copy yet) a fact-finding mission - you visit the titular Abyssal prison to interrogate Shami-Amourae, Demogorgon's former lover, to discover his secret weakness. Seems like "Enemies of My Enemy" will involve making deals with Demogorgon's enemies both fiendish and celestial, so that he will be weak enough to defeat when the PCs face him in "Prince of Demons" in Dungeon #150, the final issue.
sorreahdarkhart 06-20-07, 01:02 AM	It's kinda sad to see it go though, isn't it? I know I will, cause I got started on issue 138. So it's pretty much I started getting into it, and it's like, "we're closing shop in the next couple issues". Sucks. Anyways, my computer sucks. I still can't get to the conversion files. Don't panic though, as I'll just travel to my friend's and get it there. My computer tends to be very picky when letting me do things, and it apparently doesn't want me to see the notes. Whatever.:D
mhacdebhandia 06-21-07, 09:09 PM	I've marked up a little map to show where I'm placing things in Eberron: Clicky clicky. (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h144/mhacdebhandia/savage-tide-locations.jpg) The island coloured red is Sasserine; the city is on the southern side. The large orange square is approximate location of the Isle of Dread, in the Dragonreach. The small blue square is the approximate location of Scuttlecove, on the island of Sekorvia in Adder Bay, one of two islands which are part of Q'barra but close to Valenar.