Post/Author/DateTime	Post
igotsmeakabob!! 08-08-06, 03:32 PM	Wasn't sure where to put this so I'll stick it here... accidentally stuck it in classes forum heh. Alright, the book just arrived on my doorstep and may I say HOLY **** WTFBBQ. I'm a huge fan of Gish characters (that is, fighter/wizzies or rogue/wizzies) and the Jade Phoenix Mage is freaking awesomely amazing. My favorite PrC. Ever. 10 levels of awesome magnitude. When i finished reading it I had the awesome idea of a Warforged Jade Phoenix Mage. Holy crap. So how should this stuff be adapted to Eberron? I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult, but my time is currently short so I'm just going to finish writing this sentence and get goin', then come back in a while and post my ideas. Oh yeah. Ideas away!
The White Sorcerer 08-08-06, 04:27 PM	Here's where I see the different styles originating from (may change later, since I don't have the book yet): Desert Wind—Tairnadal elves Devoted Spirit—Worshipers of the Sovereign Host Diamond Mind—Adar Iron Heart—Dhakaan Setting Sun—? Shadow Hand—The Umbragen or House Phiarlan Stone Dragon—The Mror Holds Tiger Claw—Shifters White Raven—Ancient Karrnath Also, I'd stat Kaius and Haruuc as warblades, and the Lord of Blades as a crusader.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-08-06, 05:53 PM	I like how they included FR and Eberron in the adaptaions for PrCs. Jade Phoenix Mage WF would be awesome, awakening to find that you've been not a WF before lol.
Feroz 08-09-06, 10:51 AM	Iron Heart Endurance + the Devoted Spirit discipline's revitilazing strikes = a rather nice bit of healing that you can use, even in the Mournland, thanks to the lack of 'Healing' descriptors on the manuvers! ^-^
Korhal_IV 08-10-06, 04:33 PM	The Valenar have warblades. Oh, do they have warblades. The d12 even makes up for the elven Con penalty! The Dhakaani definitely have swordsages, and lots of them. Crusaders probably get divvied up across Khorvaire - I can see crusaders in the service of the Silver Flame, certainly, but the Dhakaani could probably also have crusaders, and various civilizations with an overpowering ideology - the fire-loving drow of Xen'drik, perhaps? They'd be naturals for the Desert Wind style.
igotsmeakabob!! 08-10-06, 05:33 PM	My Warforged Jade Phoenix Mage is going to be so damn cool... Thinking of naming him Viridian.
Amaril 08-10-06, 10:36 PM	The Valenar have warblades. Oh, do they have warblades. The d12 even makes up for the elven Con penalty! The Dhakaani definitely have swordsages, and lots of them. Crusaders probably get divvied up across Khorvaire - I can see crusaders in the service of the Silver Flame, certainly, but the Dhakaani could probably also have crusaders, and various civilizations with an overpowering ideology - the fire-loving drow of Xen'drik, perhaps? They'd be naturals for the Desert Wind style. I'm imagining a warforged crusader from the Mournland follows and worships the Lord of Blades.
aelryinth 08-11-06, 12:22 AM	Here's where I see the different styles originating from (may change later, since I don't have the book yet): Desert Wind—Tairnadal elves Devoted Spirit—Worshipers of the Sovereign Host Diamond Mind—Adar Iron Heart—Dhakaan Setting Sun—? Shadow Hand—The Umbragen or House Phiarlan Stone Dragon—The Mror Holds Tiger Claw—Shifters White Raven—Ancient Karrnath Also, I'd stat Kaius and Haruuc as warblades, and the Lord of Blades as a crusader. Desert Wind, with its speed and fire theme, fits well with the Drow of Xen'Drik. Devoted Spirit sounds to me like something the Silver Flamers would do. Diamond Mind the Kalashtar, although they DO have their own fighting discipline which begs to get more stats then a tactical feat. Setting Sun would then default to the Soveriegn Host, quite reasonable. Shadow Hand as the Umbragen makes great sense. Iron Heart - Flavor might say the Hobgoblins, but the Hobs prided themselves on their Spiked Chains and legions, not their blade masters. I'd actually call this one a Karrnathi discipline, and the reason for their success and reps as fighters. White Raven - This as the leadership central for the hobgobs of Dhakaan dovetails nicely for warrior-bards. Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw are fine for Mror and Shifters, in order. ==Aelryinth
ArcTan 08-11-06, 12:59 AM	Iron Heart - Flavor might say the Hobgoblins, but the Hobs prided themselves on their Spiked Chains and legions, not their blade masters. I'd actually call this one a Karrnathi discipline, and the reason for their success and reps as fighters. On the other hand, remember that "Kech Sharaat" means "Bearers of the Blade", and that the artifact that signifies the office of leadership of the Dhakaani Empire is a bastard sword. I still feel that the Sublime Way of the ToB is too "exotic" feeling for me to want to give it to the Five Nations as a general rule. The semi-mystical way swordsagers, crusaders and warblades get trained doesn't fit with the pragmatic view of fighting I view the Five Nations as having -- at least, making it universal would dilute the potential for a strange, exotic feel you could get by giving them to the strange, exotic nonhuman nations, the kalashtar, the goblinoids, the elves, even the Mror dwarves (for whom Iron Heart makes some sense).
Decree Of Boredom 08-11-06, 09:12 AM	Desert Wind, with its speed and fire theme, fits well with the Drow of Xen'Drik. Only one particular tribe of drow--the Sulatar League--has anything to do with fire. If you're going to give it to them, at least let the Valenar have it. Possible plot hook when the Valenar discover that their ancient fighting style, passed down through the ages, is just plagiarized from the giant's servants. Diamond Mind the Kalashtar, although they DO have their own fighting discipline which begs to get more stats then a tactical feat. Solution: Change name from "Diamond Mind" to "Path of Shadows", or whatever the kalashtar call it. Shadow Hand as the Umbragen makes great sense. See what I said with Desert Wind, only this time with House Phiarlan. Iron Heart - Flavor might say the Hobgoblins, but the Hobs prided themselves on their Spiked Chains and legions, not their blade masters. I'd actually call this one a Karrnathi discipline, and the reason for their success and reps as fighters. Uh...what the guy above me said. Spiked chains were more of a specialty weapon, not the Dhakaani weapon.
Korhal_IV 08-11-06, 04:04 PM	Setting Sun would then default to the Soveriegn Host, quite reasonable. Setting Sun is about judo-esque throws and flinging your enemies yards away. I can't really see that fitting with the Sovreign Host. Since the Silver Flame already has a near-monopoly on paladins, we could give Devoted Spirit Crusaders to the Sovreign Host as well. Or, just like paladins, the Sovreign Host just doesn't produce a lot of mystical warriors. Quite a few clerics, but not a lot of mystical warriors. Setting Sun is really the hardest style to fit anywhere that isn't overtly martial-arts themed already. It's a style of misdirection and fooling your opponents. My God. Zilargo is full of judo artists. :eek: :D
Encard 08-11-06, 05:04 PM	You know, though it's a reasonable response, I don't think the disciplines need to be split up by nation like that. I'd rather see different styles based on the various groups - not necessarily nations - that focus on combining several of the disciplines toward the group's combat goal. For example, the Dhakaani shaarat'khesh might be particularly known for their Swordsages, who mix Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, and bits of other disciplines (possibly Iron Heart and Diamond Mind as secondary foci) to make extremely effective spy/assassin/etc types. Personally, I think this fits better with what I'd expect to see in a real-world-ish scenario, not to mention that it keeps the ToB classes from being severely gimped in power from being forced to only take discipline's maneuvers.
Amaril 08-11-06, 05:19 PM	Is it plausible to keep the disciplines associated with temples/monasteries/training schools that are simply organizations independent of nations, races or other organizations? I haven't read the book completely, just glanced through it, so I'm genuinely asking.
Just another user 08-11-06, 05:34 PM	Uh...what the guy above me said. Spiked chains were more of a specialty weapon, not the Dhakaani weapon. And any style can be used with any weapons.
Just another user 08-11-06, 05:35 PM	My God. Zilargo is full of judo artists. :eek: :D Kidding aside it make sense for the Setting Sun style, a style where phiscal strength is not fundamental, to be used/developed by the phisically weak gnomes (or halfling)
reese 08-11-06, 08:15 PM	Setting Sun is about judo-esque throws and flinging your enemies yards away. I can't really see that fitting with the Sovreign Host. i'd have to agree if it wasn't for Boldrei (i think, or Arawai?) who is all about community and getting along. seems like a good deal for her, letting your enemies beat themselves, so you don't actually have to hurt them Since the Silver Flame already has a near-monopoly on paladins, we could give Devoted Spirit Crusaders to the Sovreign Host as well. Or, just like paladins, the Sovreign Host just doesn't produce a lot of mystical warriors. Quite a few clerics, but not a lot of mystical warriors. just a side note about the whole silver flame class monopoly i'm considering limiting classes to both religions, namely the SF gets the favored souls and crusaders, seeing as both classes abilities are "given" by a deity and the silver flame does have more of a physical appearance. Setting Sun is really the hardest style to fit anywhere that isn't overtly martial-arts themed already. It's a style of misdirection and fooling your opponents. My God. Zilargo is full of judo artists. :eek: :D thank you for in advance for the nightmares i will be having tonight. and every night. for the rest of my life.
Encard 08-11-06, 08:39 PM	just a side note about the whole silver flame class monopoly i'm considering limiting classes to both religions, namely the SF gets the favored souls and crusaders, seeing as both classes abilities are "given" by a deity and the silver flame does have more of a physical appearance. You know, there's nothing to say that the "flashes of divine insight" a Crusader gets are actually divine and not, oh, a crazed long-term Daelkyr plot to corrupt society/the meddling of a Rajah/draconic manipulation in accordance to the Prophecy/some magical intervention by the living Couatl/some new form of Quori seeding/the sensitivity of certain people to the sleeping and/or dead dreams of the Progenitor Wyrms/etc...
ArcTan 08-12-06, 12:21 AM	Since the Silver Flame already has a near-monopoly on paladins, we could give Devoted Spirit Crusaders to the Sovreign Host as well. Or, just like paladins, the Sovreign Host just doesn't produce a lot of mystical warriors. Quite a few clerics, but not a lot of mystical warriors. Near-monopoly? They're more martial than the Sovereign Host, but Tira Miron herself was a paladin of Dol Arrah, and I see no reason to believe that the idea of Host paladins has vanished just because the Flame now exists. The Monks of the Broken Blade serve Dol Dorn, not the Flame, for instance.
Fion81 08-12-06, 04:12 AM	if one was playing a straight figher up the levels would this still be useful?
Amaril 08-12-06, 10:40 AM	if one was playing a straight figher up the levels would this still be useful? I think PHII is more geared for that. It has lots of feats with high BAB requirements.
Korhal_IV 08-12-06, 05:44 PM	Near-monopoly? They're more martial than the Sovereign Host, but Tira Miron herself was a paladin of Dol Arrah, and I see no reason to believe that the idea of Host paladins has vanished just because the Flame now exists. The Monks of the Broken Blade serve Dol Dorn, not the Flame, for instance. Near-monopoly may be an exaggeration, but I have seen far more paladins of the Silver Flame than paladins of the Sovreign Host, both in sourcebooks and in the hands of players. The more militant faith gets the more militant followers. Reese: thank you for in advance for the nightmares i will be having tonight. and every night. for the rest of my life. You're welcome. :D By the way, your sig quote is hilarious.
Bluebrush 08-12-06, 08:36 PM	if one was playing a straight figher up the levels would this still be useful?Sort of. There are feats which allow you to gain martial arts abilities, but they're more effective in the hands of the three new classes in the book.
Korhal_IV 08-12-06, 10:02 PM	if one was playing a straight figher up the levels would this still be useful? Yes. Both Martial Study (gain one maneuver) and Martial Stance (gain one martial stance) are fighter bonus feats, as well as Blade Meditation (+1 damage, +2 on chosen skill, etc). This means that if you're going to be a specialist type of fighter, and your specialization won't eat up all 18 feats, you could acquire a surprising number of martial maneuvers and stances with which to beat on your surprised opponents. :)
Encard 08-14-06, 03:29 AM	Well... Three maneuvers (Martial Study can only be taken three times) and as many stances as you have feats for (no limit on Martial Stance), if I recall correctly. Stances are awesome, of course... Also guessing that a lot of fighters might go with Iron Heart Surge as their goal for maneuvers. Getting rid of any status effect that doesn't stop you from taking a standard action? Awesome indeed.
davethebrave371 02-04-07, 09:36 PM	Cross posted from one in the Classes Forum, just in case. So, what happened to Keith's Eberron Expanded article on this? I remember reading something he wrote in a thread about how he'd already written the ToB article, and that it was on its way. What gives?
The White Sorcerer 02-05-07, 01:05 AM	What gives? Master Baker's trying to sort it out with the folk in charge of the website. The Eberron Expandeds are propably caught in the same void as the Dragonshards.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 02-05-07, 11:56 AM	You know, I've also been giving a lot of thought to how the Jade Phoenix Mage fits into Eberron. IIRC, they defeated something known as the Soul Drake or something like that, and now keep being reincarnated to keep it down. I don't know about you, but this sounds like in Eberron it could easily be adapted to, "Keep Khyber sleeping." Especially after I read one theory about the Day of Mourning - Khyber tried to wake up. Just imagine that campaign hook working into your history. Or you could tie it to one of the other famous cataclysms - Dal Quor or Xoriat incursions. Nice. Jade Phoenix Mage really fits in Eberron, doesn't it?
GreenWarlock 02-05-07, 05:59 PM	Alright I posted this idea on a different Tome of Battle Thread that promptly died...so let's hope I don't kill this one. This isn't so much about where the disciplines come from but how they got everywhere and how they mixed. Now I don't remeber the head dude's name but I know he mastered all 9 disciplines. What if he was a mercenary in the Last War. Now I remenber something in the begining of the book which discusses alignments saying "it isn't for the blacksmith to decide how the sword will be used" or something close to that. I took that as meaning if you wanted to learn from a initiator they were honor-bound to instruct you in the paths they knew. Think about it, 100 years of war in which student learned form master and then became master to a new student, passing thorugh armies and mercenary companies, then taken back to villages when the war ended or you were too wounded to fight anymore, and temples and school of learning would follow. In my mind that is how you justify nearly any character concept learning nearly any discipline, and how each class knows multiple disciplines.