Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMsDelight 05-13-05, 09:48 AM	Hmm...Perhaps this would be the best place for my question. I was wondering, how would I add material to the Eberron Setting? I was thumbing through it, and all the material seems so set in stone. I was thinking of adding a couple deities and some new races, as well as new planes, but (the planes especially) seems like it wouldn't fit. I was kind of disappointed that there was generally a plane of fire, put they smashed the plane of water, air and earth on a new plane that didn't really have the elemental feel, so I was going to add three new planes, but how would I fit in there? Aradona
Gurv 05-13-05, 10:43 AM	Nothing is set in stone. In fact, the designers have gone out of their way to make sure that there are places and aspects of the setting that are undefined, so that you can add to your heart's content. You can make whatever changes you like. If you want to add a couple of gods, you don't have to check with WotC or anything. There have been several threads on the god-issue, and you could search for them if that feature were up. What most people are going to ask you is: if you don't like the cosmology, deities, or races, what is it that made you play in the setting? If you are going to make huge changes to the setting, you might fist want to consider taking the things you like from Eberron and putting them into a homebrew. There aren't 4 elemental planes because that idea was getting tired and cliché...and it was time for something new. The logic is, if you have an adventure idea for one of those kind of planes, just place it in a really watery/underground/windy part of Lammania or someplace. The plane is infinite, after all, and all those elemental creatures live there. There must be a place for each type. They don't live on top of each other, sharing tea and playing hopscotch. Lammania is likely like the material plane, with many different environments; on Lammania, those environments are much, much more extreme. One solution to introducing new gods is to give them lesser roles than they would have in another world. Make them like archdevils and celestial paragons, have them lead armies or hold court in the outer planes. They might serve the never-seen true gods and act as patrons for the mortal races to emulate, or they might consider themselves true gods themselves. Want to add more races? Xen'drik. That is the default answer anyway. Pick a place that isn't 100% explored and drop them in. If you want raptorians, find a place where they could be without disrupting the rest of the setting, and then have them be discovered. You want derro? Make them mutated dwarven freaks who got caught in the Mourning. Just place them in the setting at the edges, so that nothing is changed. Or just change things and tell the PCs that seeing dromites all over the place is perfectly normal.
Edymnion 05-13-05, 11:39 AM	Agreed. You can add any new gods you want, because there is no direct evidence of the existance of gods. You can have people worshipping whoever you want, because they really don't do anything. Look at real world religions like Hinduism that essentially take whatever god they find, and add it to their own pantheon. Same here, you want people worshipping their own shoes, go right ahead and throw it in. Heck, they'll even get spells as long as they truely believe their shoes are gods. As for adding to the planes, that one doesn't really fly in Eberron. The planes are directly tied to the moons, which are tied to the dragonmarks. Adding to them is generally a bad idea. But there is nothing you could make a plane for that you can't find somewhere in the existing planes of Eberron. I mean, like Gurv said, the things are virtually infinite. Unless you plan on having near infinite romps across each plane, there's no reason you can't have a stint in the elemental plane of water instead take place in the Endless Oceans of Lammania.
Gurv 05-13-05, 02:30 PM	Also, while on the subject of the planes, Eberron has introduced a new factor into the mix of things. They removed some of the availability of higher level magic that would normally allow "trips" into the planes. But they replaced them with manifest zones and coterminious phases, which bring the planes to Eberron. If you want to, you can run most planar adventures right there on Eberron by creating a manifest zone to an appropriate dimension. Instead of sending the PCs to the Elemental Plane of Water, you could instead have a manifest zone in the middle of the ocean that enhances the elemental nature of that locale to something approximating whatever aspect of the core cosmology that you feel is needed. Being in a manifest zone at the wrong time might be even worse: the PCs might be exploring a windswept mountaintop at the moment that Lamannia becomes coterminous (1 week a year!) and find that they aren't in Kansas anymore...while the bottom of the mountain no longer exists, and no ground can be seen! That idea might work better with Syrania though, although having a windstorm turn into a Shavarath bladestorm might be pretty frightening too...remember that manifest zones do not have to possess all the traits of the plane they link to, and often have traits that are completely different. Think outside the box. Stop wondering how to do the "old stuff" in Eberron and look at all the things that you can now do that you could never do before!
DMsDelight 05-13-05, 02:37 PM	you want people worshipping their own shoes, go right ahead and throw it in. Heck, they'll even get spells as long as they truely believe their shoes are gods. First of all, I'm sigging that. That is so quote-worthy. Secondly...hmmm...I guess a lot of the problems I find is this. With the gods, I was going to add a goddess and pantheon dedicated to psionics (since I LOVE Psionics, and Eberron has a large showing of psionics). It would have a similar theme as the Sovereign and the Dark six, but it seemed kind of hard to fit it in the already existing pantheon. Though now that you point it out, Edymnion, you have a point. I suppose I can just say that the pantheon was always there, just not quite as practiced as other pantheons. With the planes, I had just bought the planar handbook at the same time, and it seemed a lot of the stuff in there was geared almost entirely toward the base D&D. How would I adapt it? Gurv made a good point about Xen'drik. However...I was going to add about 8-10 new races, including all from the XPH. Surely they ALL couldn't have come from Xen'drik, could they? If not, how could I add it without severely disrupting the social structure of Eberron? Should I make some from different planes, like the mind-flayers are? (PS--Does the mind-flayers type change because they are native to another plane?)
Just another user 05-13-05, 03:01 PM	mmh, beware to overcrowding problems, 8-10 new intelligent races are a little too much, IMHO. But if you really want them there other possibilities - Sarlona for the average khorvain citizen is almost as inexplored and mysterious as Xen'drik, they could came from there - they could come from the planes, stranded in a little explored part of Khorvain by a freak manifest zone. - they could be in a remote part of the country, with a little population and keep a lot to themselves. - don't forget Argonessen, they could have passed the last centuries under the protection of the dragons. - From one of the moons, maybe? - Created by the day of Mourning a standard race mutated by a long permanence into or near a manifest zone. i.e. the raptorian (the winged people from race of wild IIRC) were originary elves that unknowinlgy made their village near a manifest zone to Syrania, with the passing of the generation the magical energies from the zone mutated them giving them a form that was able to fly. And of course there is Xen'drik it depend on which races do you want to introduce, why don't you tell us whoat they are? Maybe someone here could come up with a good story.
Siran Dunmorgan 05-13-05, 03:25 PM	Of the psionic races presented in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Half-giants, Thri-kreen, and Dromites are all good races from Xen'drik. Elan... Elan have been discussed on other parts of this board. They are effectively a secret society within humanity, though, like most aberrations, they have their origin with the arts of the daelkyr. Duergar are effectively a branch of the Dwarves, and may be found scattered about Khyber, primarily in the regions beneath the Mror Holds and other ancestral dwelling-places of the dwarves. Githyanki and Githzerai are already spoken of as originating on a world destroyed by the Mind Flayers and daelkyr, with the Githyanki presently inhabiting the astral plane, and the Githzerai inhabiting Kythri. Maenads... maenads have the 'sparkling motes' effect in their skin, so they may simply represent an experiment of some kind by an agency other than the daelkyr. If I had to guess, I would suggest that the maenads were an early attempt at 'empty vessels' by the Inspired, now living in exile in Adar after their temperament proved too unstable for their quori masters. Alternatively, the legend of them having overthrown their divine creator may be an echo of their having overthrown a particular quori overlord or daelkyr. That leaves the Xephs. The racial description of them suggests that they have a limited geographical range (the rift valley in darkness), and consequently, they could come from aywhere in the setting: the rift could be anywhere in the Demon Wastes, the Eldeen Reaches, the Blade Desert, Q'barra, or somewhere in Sarlona or Xen'drik. About the only place they aren't likely to come from is Argonnessen, since the dragons tend to keep what is their own. One of the amazing things about Eberron is the ease with which just about anything can be incorporated into the setting. —Siran Dunmorgan
Just another user 05-13-05, 03:34 PM	That leaves the Xephs. The racial description of them suggests that they have a limited geographical range (the rift valley in darkness), and consequently, they could come from aywhere in the setting: the rift could be anywhere in the Demon Wastes, the Eldeen Reaches, the Blade Desert, Q'barra, or somewhere in Sarlona or Xen'drik. About the only place they aren't likely to come from is Argonnessen, since the dragons tend to keep what is their own. —Siran Dunmorgan Unless the Prophecy is not involved.
DMsDelight 05-13-05, 04:29 PM	I suppose you're all right. I especially like the ideas for the XPH races, although...What about Dromites? See, I LOVE Eberron, it's just, I don't know. I suppose that since I've only had the book for three days, and I've known no other campaign world besides the base D&D, I guess I'm looking for a solid ground to stand on with this new and greatly improved setting. However, Why are the devils and demons all on separate planes? That didn't really make since to me.
KP91 05-13-05, 06:20 PM	Hmm...Perhaps this would be the best place for my question. I was wondering, how would I add material to the Eberron Setting? I was thumbing through it, and all the material seems so set in stone. I was thinking of adding a couple deities and some new races, as well as new planes, but (the planes especially) seems like it wouldn't fit. I was kind of disappointed that there was generally a plane of fire, put they smashed the plane of water, air and earth on a new plane that didn't really have the elemental feel, so I was going to add three new planes, but how would I fit in there? Aradona There is a plane of Fire called Fernia. And instead of Water, there is the Ice Plane, Risia. However, Why are the devils and demons all on separate planes? That didn't really make since to me. In normal dnd they were on different planes. Demons in the Abyss and Devils were in the 9 Hells.
The White Sorcerer 05-13-05, 07:13 PM	Psionic deities? Sure, if you're okay with them being virtually unworshiped. You see, very few people know that psionics exist. Most of those who do (Riedrans) believe that the "gods" the people from the Land of Fiends (Khorvaire) worship are evil demons and don't have clerics. The other significant group that knows about psionics (Adarans) worship il-Yannah. And anyways, what's stopping you from making the Host/Six the gods of psionics? After all, there isn't a separate pantheon of magic, why should there be a pantheon of psionics?
The White Sorcerer 05-13-05, 07:18 PM	In normal dnd they were on different planes. Demons in the Abyss and Devils were in the 9 Hells. I think what he means is, "Glabrezu in Shavarath, balors in Fernia."
Gurv 05-13-05, 07:29 PM	First of all, I'm sigging that. That is so quote-worthy. It'll blow your mind, but I almost made reference to that as well. There was an entire thread that once debated whether worshipping a shoe could produce spells. A pretty good thread too. I still say it could if you were devoted enough, but there is no way you could produce that much devotion over a mundane shoe. Secondly...hmmm...I guess a lot of the problems I find is this. With the gods, I was going to add a goddess and pantheon dedicated to psionics (since I LOVE Psionics, and Eberron has a large showing of psionics). It would have a similar theme as the Sovereign and the Dark six, but it seemed kind of hard to fit it in the already existing pantheon. Though now that you point it out, Edymnion, you have a point. I suppose I can just say that the pantheon was always there, just not quite as practiced as other pantheons. With the planes, I had just bought the planar handbook at the same time, and it seemed a lot of the stuff in there was geared almost entirely toward the base D&D. How would I adapt it? Something that is easy to overlook when reading the general overview of the world that the ECS presents is the sheer size of the world. Those maps don't show every town, not even close. Every place it mentions is important in some way. There are millions of villages that are unmentioned, thousands of locations that are unexplored. Any one of them might follow a god that is otherwise unheard of. And that is on Khorvaire, in relatively settled areas. Read the MMIII if you get a chance. It puts a tribe of goatfolk in the Blackcap Mountains in Breland, and even tells about their role in the Last War! Gurv made a good point about Xen'drik. However...I was going to add about 8-10 new races, including all from the XPH. Surely they ALL couldn't have come from Xen'drik, could they? If not, how could I add it without severely disrupting the social structure of Eberron? Should I make some from different planes, like the mind-flayers are? (PS--Does the mind-flayers type change because they are native to another plane?) Why not come from Xen'drik? Or Sarlona? Or Argonnessen (if the dragons created them, for example)? You wouldn't have any problem placing a random monster no one had ever seen for an adventure, would you? You could place the half-giants and create a village of them two days from Stormreach, have them start trading with the humans, and it wouldn't ruin a thing. Now, if you put a nation of them with armies and political influence, then you're on your own. I placed half-giants on Xen'drik along with thri-kreen, made dromites from Sarlona, elans are a small secretive group that blends in amongst the humans. Duergar fit in the Mror Holds: just because they are not mentioned specifically doesn't mean they're not about...did you read anything saying that dwarves couldn't be psionic and that an entire clan of psionic dwarves would shake things up? The impression that every inch of Eberron, or even Khorvaire, has been properly explored is incorrect. Places such as the Demon Wastes, Droaam, and Q'barra are almost completely unknown to the civilized people at the core of the land. And even the settled areas have isolated places where you could put something small. You don't have to make a race have political power to introduce it to a game. No, mind flayers remain aberrations for two reasons: 1) not all creatures from other planes are outsiders. You can have magical beasts, elementals, humanoids, whatever. Outsiders are beings created from the essence of the plane they come from. Other things can live there too. 2) Most mind flayers don't even gain the extraplanar subtype that a creature coming from another plane would normally have, because they are mortal and most of the ones on Eberron were born here. After a couple generations, they're natives.
MarkB 05-13-05, 08:03 PM	Secondly...hmmm...I guess a lot of the problems I find is this. With the gods, I was going to add a goddess and pantheon dedicated to psionics (since I LOVE Psionics, and Eberron has a large showing of psionics). In Khorvaire, psionics are practically unknown, so you're not going to see established pantheons devoted to them. In Sarlona, you've got two religions centred around psionics. The empire of Riedra is built upon the worship of the Inspired, and thus the Quori of the Dreaming Dark who possess them, as living gods. This is psionics and psionic beings as the centre of the single largest and most organised religion on Eberron. And in Adar, the besieged Kalashtar follow their own religion, the Path of Light. Whilst it has no deities as such, the Path of Light is the purest expression of the Kalashtar devotion to the rebel Quori spirits with whom they share their existence, and the principles for which they stand. So there you go - for all the people who actually know about psionics, there are already two major religions available. If you want to introduce a third, structured similarly to the Sovereign Host / Dark Six pantheons, it might be possible for it to exist as a highly-persecuted underground movement emerging in Sarlona (but deep underground - the Inspired won't like it at all, and they're psionic, after all), which is gradually spreading into Khorvaire, picking up support from a minority of disaffected Kalashtar and natural telepaths.
Edymnion 05-13-05, 08:58 PM	Btw, for the Cult of the Almighty Shoe, I would suggest the Travel domain for it's clerics ;) And yes, one very valid way to work Eberron religions and spellcasting is that all divine magic comes from the three Progenitor Wyrms. Good Divine magic comes from Syberis, Natural Divine magic (druids) come from Eberron, while Evil Divine magic comes from Khyber. The whole thing about gods is just a mental focus that allows the clerics/druids to work up the faith necissary to tap into the Creator Dragons via proxy. Which means you really can worship your own shoe and have it grant you high level divine power. It also helps that your holy symbol makes for a good improvised sap :P Anyway, back on topic: Droamites and Thri-Keen. Bug people. They'd definately be in Xen'Drik somewhere. The Thri-Keen I can easily see being in the jungle regions, seeing as they're rather preying mantis like. The Droamites I'd peg as being more ant-like, living in their large communal hives underground, probably on the Xen'Drik plains (remember, Xen'Drik is an entire contintent twice the size of Khovair, its not all rain forest jungles, its got all terrains from jungle to desert to snow). Half-Giants I actually already put in my game as inhabiting a series of islands just north of Xen'Drik. I made them the descendants of Quori sympathizers that ran for it when it was obvious that the Giants were going to win. They managed to get to those isolated islands, kept up their psionic powers until they became racial, and slowly devolved in size until you're left with the Psionic half-giants. They likely don't even remember WHY they use psionics, or know of their shameful past (hey, if you were on the wrong end of an arse-whooping, would YOU tell your kids about it?). Elans I have based in Sharn as the Kalashtar's answer to the Inspired. Instead of vessels breed to be perfect hosts to the Quori, the Kalashtar figured out the binding rituals, and created human prisons for the Quori. After all, a new Quori is born when an old one dies, so its better to imprison your enemy than to kill them. You imprison enough, you win. Elans are the immortal prisons caging Dreaming Dark captives, created by the Kalashtar. They are psionic because they are able to tap into the imprisoned Quori spirit within them and leech some of their power. The Gith, like was already said, are already in Eberron. Their world was one of the ones the Dreaming Dark destroyed, and they are currently hiding in the Astral Plane trying their best not to be found again. Duerger are probably what you'll find in the vast underground dwarven city that was infested by Khyber. One clan stayed to defend the rest, and they're probably still down there, twisted into dark beings by Khyber, into the Duerger. The rest don't fit very well into Eberron, I don't think, and I wouldn't advise using them.If you want to introduce a third, structured similarly to the Sovereign Host / Dark Six pantheons, it might be possible for it to exist as a highly-persecuted underground movement emerging in Sarlona (but deep underground - the Inspired won't like it at all, and they're psionic, after all), which is gradually spreading into Khorvaire, picking up support from a minority of disaffected Kalashtar and natural telepaths.Actually, if you go with my way of putting in the Half-Giants, then you could give them a highly distorted rememberance of the Quori. A Psionic Pantheon, or at least one "good" Psionic god (what the Dreaming Dark got turned into), and one "evil" Psionic god (what they remember the rebel Quori as). They're based in real events and people, but over the millenia stories got blended, exaggerated, etc, until the entire Quori race got boiled down into one super-being. A creator god figure, the Dreaming Dark, and the chaotic, rebellious destroyer that is the son of the creator god, the rogue Quori that became the Kalashtar. Gives you some built in tension between any Half-Giant characters and the Kalashtar, who would immediantly be seen, essentially, as the children of Satan.
Gurv 05-13-05, 09:07 PM	The Gith, like was already said, are already in Eberron. Their world was one of the ones the Dreaming Dark destroyed, and they are currently hiding in the Astral Plane trying their best not to be found again. The Daelkyr destroy worlds, not the Dreaming Dark. And they have the mind flayers. So the mind flayers helped destroy the gith world(s) and they fled to the Astral and Kythri, and hate the mind flayers and their Daelkyr masters. But they hate the mind flayers more because they were the ones that did all the leg-work of the invasion while the Daelkyr stayed in the background.
Edymnion 05-13-05, 09:40 PM	The Daelkyr destroy worlds, not the Dreaming Dark.Daelkyr, right. Anybody else notice that Keith was fixated on badguys that started with a D? The Dreaming Dark, the Daelkyr, the Lords of Dust...
Gurv 05-13-05, 10:05 PM	Daelkyr, right. Anybody else notice that Keith was fixated on badguys that started with a D? The Dreaming Dark, the Daelkyr, the Lords of Dust... Not to mention their Dolgaunt and Dolgrim pets, as well as the number of places wth "D" names: Darguun, Demon Wastes, and Droaam... Poor Keith. You would think that we had nothing to do besides analyze his every word...I guess thats what you get for creating a pulp noir setting...no one trusts ya anymore.
Edymnion 05-14-05, 02:32 PM	Not to mention their Dolgaunt and Dolgrim pets, as well as the number of places wth "D" names: Darguun, Demon Wastes, and Droaam...Eberron, it gives you the best game of D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D,D&D you've ever played! :P
MarkB 05-15-05, 08:00 PM	Not to mention their Dolgaunt and Dolgrim pets, as well as the number of places wth "D" names: Darguun, Demon Wastes, and Droaam... Are we getting close to 13 yet? ;)
Solarious 05-15-05, 11:17 PM	Are we getting close to 13 yet? ;) Only if you start adding in deities like Dol Arrah or Dol Dorn. :smirk: Hellcow (Keith Baker for those of us who are not regulars) strongly hints that The Mockery used to be a Dol as well, so there is a case for the '13' clause. For that matter, really, there are only 13 members of the divine extended family. Sure, there are 15 Gods, but The Shadow is basicly Auron, and nobody knows what the heck The Traveler is, who therefore doesn't count. Egads! We've discovered another '13'! :eek:
KP91 05-15-05, 11:21 PM	Only if you start adding in deities like Dol Arrah or Dol Dorn. :smirk: Hellcow (Keith Baker for those of us who are not regulars) strongly hints that The Mockery used to be a Dol as well, so there is a case for the '13' clause. For that matter, really, there are only 13 members of the divine extended family. Sure, there are 15 Gods, but The Shadow is basicly Auron, and nobody knows what the heck The Traveler is, who therefore doesn't count. Egads! We've discovered another '13'! :eek: *twitch*not again! Edit: 13 D's? Dolgaunt Dolgrim Daelkyr Lords of Dust Dol Arrah Dol Dorn The Devourer Droaam Demon Wastes Darguun Dhakanni (sp?) Deneith Dreaming Dark Dragon Below ^There aren't!^ Anything I missed?
Draco Light 05-16-05, 04:32 AM	A pretty good thread too. I still say it could if you were devoted enough, but there is no way you could produce that much devotion over a mundane shoe. How about a pair of ruby slippers? Hates witches and loves rainbows? :D
ryanroyce 05-16-05, 03:48 PM	Something that is easy to overlook when reading the general overview of the world that the ECS presents is the sheer size of the world. Those maps don't show every town, not even close. Every place it mentions is important in some way. There are millions of villages that are unmentioned, thousands of locations that are unexplored. Any one of them might follow a god that is otherwise unheard of. And that is on Khorvaire, in relatively settled areas. Read the MMIII if you get a chance. It puts a tribe of goatfolk in the Blackcap Mountains in Breland, and even tells about their role in the Last War! Interestingly enough, the introductory adventure for my new campaign involves a rural village in Karrnath that worships a local deity of "truth and justice", but no one outside of that village has ever heard of him. The traditional punishment for the village consists of dropping criminals into a dungeon with minimal equipment and letting their god sort it out (i.e., if you die, you were guilty. If you live, you were innocent. So far, the village has a 100% conviction rating). I'm also creating a small god of luck whose existence can only be known by those few who are fortunate enough to find out about him through luck and happenstance (i.e., find his holy symbol on dead rogue, overhear his name spoken in a smoky tavern, find a book referencing "the Lucky Bastard", and so on). Ryan
Gurv 05-16-05, 04:56 PM	Hellcow (Keith Baker for those of us who are not regulars) strongly hints that The Mockery used to be a Dol as well, so there is a case for the '13' clause. The fact that none of the Dark Six have real names suggests to me that either the names have been forbidden to be spoken (and have therefore been lost to common knowledge) or that by some divine means they have been stripped of names entirely. Several of the early articles mention a Dol Azur, as well as relics and artifacts related to the name. I suspect that Azur is the name of one of the Dark Six.
Euangelion 05-16-05, 06:18 PM	How about a pair of ruby slippers? Hates witches and loves rainbows? :D Well, there is the cult that follows the radiant idol Nigh Kee (Travel portfolio). Since the removal of his wings, Nigh Kee has focused on developing an eldritch machine that produces vast numbers of very comfortable walking shoes.