Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Fan 10-20-04, 09:52 AM	I'm running a Whispers of the Vampire's Blade game for a slightly large group (5 people) of 1 level higher than the module (5th) with some absolutely insane ability scores (long story, but the average ability is around 15.8). Needless to say, I may have to modify some things to ensure an appropriate challenge. To help with this I've already added the Swarmshifter template (Libris Mortis) to Lucan to bump his CR up by one. I'm wondering what I should do to make Grilsha an appropriate challenge as well, since I don't see her being higher-level than her brother. Second, my group is normally very good about metagaming, but last session troubled me. When I asked our paladin (the only one with Knowledge (religion)) to make a check to see if he knew a vampire's weaknesses and he got a grand total of 7, the entire group rose up in unison to say that it's "common sense" vampires are vulnerable to silver. Not wanting to argue, I let it slide as they stocked up on silver arrows before they were even sure he was a vampire. To rectify this situation and hopefully teach them a lesson, I've all but decided that he will have swapped vulnerability. I'm thinking cold iron is roughly equivilent advantage/disadvantage-wise to silver, so DR 10/magic cold iron seems fair to me, I'm just not entirely sure on how to justify it in character. Making all vampires like that could have consequences down the line if I forget, so I'm waffling between making it a trait of the Calderus bloodline or going with a plot thread I started earlier that implied Grilsha and Lucan have some fey or eladrin blood in them. Finally, this friday is the big masquerade set-piece encounter. I'm wondering how much of Lucan's abilities I should hold back vs. how much I should show off. After all, this is his one chance to wreak some mass destruction and chaos, but it's also their first encounter with him. I need to balance his need to make a grand villainous entrance vs. his need to still have a few tricks to pull out next time they meet him. Any pointers on any of these issues are appreciated.
Kid SixXx 10-20-04, 10:13 AM	If your party is that high, I would probably forego the scenario where Lucan fights sub-par. I'd have him use his energy-drain slam and launch him fangs-first at the party cleric. Bump up Grilsha's combat capability by tossing her an extra wand or perhaps a ring. A Wand of Haste to use on her brother or a Wand of Slow to use on the PC's seems appropriate enough without causing too much collateral damage. Since she uses a hand crossbow, give her some appropriate magical or envenomed bolts as well. You probably want the initial encounter to be challenging, but not necessarily lethal. Since the jist of the module is a nearly-constant chase, time will be of the essence & you want to pass along that sense of urgency to your players. If they are forced to take time out to recover from lvl drains or worse, have to raise someone, it could kill the fun for the party. OTOH, one way to push on the sense of urgency would be to have Lucan bite one of the PC's and infect him. Then, not only would the party be pressed for time to recover the Soul Blade, but they'd also have to prevent their companion from completely turning into a vampire thrall.
Iron_Weasel 10-20-04, 01:04 PM	If I may ask, why did you ask the group's Paladin to roll his Knowledge skill? Did the group suspect that Lucan was a vampire from the start? In that case, it may not be unreasonable that they would want to stock up on anti-vampire kit. That said, a 7 is a 7, and while it might be "common sense" to your players that silver is effective against vampires, it clearly wasn't so to the PCs. I can understand your desire to move the adventure along and not get caught up in an argument, but I think I would have stood my ground on the subject and explained that the paladin simply didn't know that much about vampires. There's no reason they couldn't have gone to a local temple and made a generous donation in exchange for some time with one of the high priests who could have shared more info with the group. However, you've moved past this already, so the point is moot. I think that you're idea to switch DRs is clever, but it might be seen as "cheating" by your players, who will wonder why exactly Lucan isn't vulnerable to silver. From an excitement standpoint, it makes sense; Lucan should not be easily defeated, but from a mechanics standpoint, it seriously nerfs Knowledge [religion] - "vampires are vulnerable to silver, except when they're not". :twitch: Still, let us know how your players react when they're expensive silver arrows have no effect on Lucan :devil: Cheers!
The_Fan 10-20-04, 02:27 PM	I don't see it as a nerf on knowledge (religion), since I control the info anyway. If I provide conditions, such as "Vampires of X bloodline" or "people with fey blood who become vampires" then I can tell them whether it would work in this particular case. It's nerfing OOC player knowledge, but I think that's kinda the point... Knowing my players though if I tell them I changed something, they'll accept it. I did that with a mummy once (swapping fire for cold vulnerability), but I gave them hints because it looked more like beef jerky than your typical dusty mummy. Later I explained it was a mummy made by smoking over a fire, and they accepted it and even liked the change of pace.
Fourthmensch 10-20-04, 04:06 PM	I don't see it as a nerf on knowledge (religion), since I control the info anyway. If I provide conditions, such as "Vampires of X bloodline" or "people with fey blood who become vampires" then I can tell them whether it would work in this particular case. It's nerfing OOC player knowledge, but I think that's kinda the point... Knowing my players though if I tell them I changed something, they'll accept it. I did that with a mummy once (swapping fire for cold vulnerability), but I gave them hints because it looked more like beef jerky than your typical dusty mummy. Later I explained it was a mummy made by smoking over a fire, and they accepted it and even liked the change of pace. I quite agree that such changes of pace are perfectly fine to use as a DM. In order to keep things interesting for players who have been fighting the same monsters for over a decade, such surprises serve to keep things interesting. Personally, I practically feel obligated to do these sorts of things when my player's can't manage to keep their knowledge and their character's knowledge separate. Just like in your case, they are generally pretty good at it, but when characters start knowing things they couldn't possibly know (especially when they know it because the player has been browsing through the campaign setting), it really makes me angry. So, if they expect (without any good cause), that NPC X is a 4th level artificer, I make him a 9th level psion instead. And if they are stocking up on silver to fight a vampire, then changing that vulnerability to cold iron seems like a nice solution.
Iron_Weasel 10-21-04, 12:03 AM	I don't see it as a nerf on knowledge (religion), since I control the info anyway. If I provide conditions, such as "Vampires of X bloodline" or "people with fey blood who become vampires" then I can tell them whether it would work in this particular case. It's nerfing OOC player knowledge, but I think that's kinda the point... Interesting point, and not one I'd considered. I shall have to keep your ideas in mind when my own players invariably confuse OOC knowledge with IC knowledge. Well done! Cheers!