advocates and swords [Archive] - Wizards Community

advocates and swords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
reese
04-10-06, 11:34 PM okay i just finished reading an interesting book that kinda just showed up in my house, called "colours in the steel" and the authors name escapes me at the moment, but characters and plot aside the court system in the city the book takes place in was very interesting and i was wondering where it could be fit into eberron.

the courts work like so. imagine our courts today. there is a judge, a plaintiff, a defendant, and a lawyer (or advocate) for each side. however instead of the lawyers arguing, wooing a jury or harrassing witnesses they just come to court and fight to the death. yeah. i'll let that sink in for a minute.

exceptions are on divorces and wills which are usually only to first blood. but anyway, i'm not an expert fencer myself but i do have a small amount of knowledge and the way they describe it is wonderful to read, but that aside, where in eberron would this fit? any specific nation or maybe just a city?

the duels are fought un-armored, more along the lines of fencing then greatsword and full-plate bashing. different swords are used for different cases, like a greatsword would be used in a witchcraft trial, so the book says, because is it seen as a barbaric and cruel weapon. the way they describe them fighting with those is interesting too by the by.

my other question though, is these fencers-at-law or advocates if you will use swords, and most seem to be of a specific make so they have names in the context like:

" A genuine Guelan. More than that, a genuine Guelan broadsword - there where only about five of them left in existence - rather than the more but still murderously valuable law-swords that the great smith had made his reputation with.... No one had ever made military swords like the great Liras Guelan... Nobody before or after had hit on the precise harmony of weight and balance that made it the next best thing to perfect, for single- or double-handed use, cutting or thrusting.... A Guelan broadsword they said, should be allowed to fight for you: it knew what it was doing, and all the wielder had to or should do was hang on to the blunt end and watch the fun."

so anybody have any ideas like that? i have no idea if i'm getting this across like i want to...

well anyway, thank you in advance, if you have questions please ask away
Just another user
04-11-06, 03:18 AM That sound something that Valenars, or at least, some Valenar family, would do.

Outside of them... I don't know, maybe Karnath could do it, maybe limited to some kind of trials. Maybe limited to people inside a certain organization, like ex graduated from the I-don't-remember-the-name accademy.
It should not be necessarily legal, only traditional, everybody know they do it, even if mostly as an urban legend, but autorities keep their head turned the other way.

Another possibility could be Daargun, maybe the lost Dakkhani(sp) clans. Their legal system could be based on martial ability.

Droam, I don't see it as sofisticated enough for something like that, in Droam there is not trials, or duels, or other cerimonies if someone have something agaist you it just bash you in the head with a tree trunk and it is over.
Naudachu
04-11-06, 05:59 PM I could see this in parts of Darguun, maybe reserved for disputes between tribes. It could even be practiced among the Marguul bugbears.

Another idea is the first blood concept was an ancient Cyran custom still practiced by refugees in remote areas of Q'Barra.

Having unique swords crafted for law is an interesting idea. Maybe there are some still around (or some waiting to be rediscovered) that were crafted in the time of Karrn the Conquerer. Justice was meted out by justicars hounding down criminals with these swords as a symbol of the new order. They could even have been forged by Mror dwarves, perhaps reluctantly, after they were conquered.
Sereno
04-12-06, 09:20 AM No one had ever made military swords like the great Liras Guelan... Nobody before or after had hit on the precise harmony of weight and balance that made it the next best thing to perfect, for single- or double-handed use, cutting or thrusting....

That just reads strangely to me ... I'll admit to having a hard time imagining a society where the best weapons go to lawyers instead of soldiers. Although, it could make sense in a world where there aren't many wars (a large stable empire?) and the finest weapons can only be afforded by the most wealthy. The advocates would be very wealthy as their role is integral to the functioning of society.

Plus, as a side-benefit, there'd wouldn't be very many nuisance lawsuits or "ambulance chasers!" :) But, it would suck to be a prosecutor ... fighting ALL the time; you'd better be pretty good or you'd have a short career.

As far as which societies could have a legal system like this, I agree with most of the above posters; the Dhakaani and the Valenar make the most sense, with noble Kaarnathi being a more distant third.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
reese 04-10-06, 11:34 PM	okay i just finished reading an interesting book that kinda just showed up in my house, called "colours in the steel" and the authors name escapes me at the moment, but characters and plot aside the court system in the city the book takes place in was very interesting and i was wondering where it could be fit into eberron. the courts work like so. imagine our courts today. there is a judge, a plaintiff, a defendant, and a lawyer (or advocate) for each side. however instead of the lawyers arguing, wooing a jury or harrassing witnesses they just come to court and fight to the death. yeah. i'll let that sink in for a minute. exceptions are on divorces and wills which are usually only to first blood. but anyway, i'm not an expert fencer myself but i do have a small amount of knowledge and the way they describe it is wonderful to read, but that aside, where in eberron would this fit? any specific nation or maybe just a city? the duels are fought un-armored, more along the lines of fencing then greatsword and full-plate bashing. different swords are used for different cases, like a greatsword would be used in a witchcraft trial, so the book says, because is it seen as a barbaric and cruel weapon. the way they describe them fighting with those is interesting too by the by. my other question though, is these fencers-at-law or advocates if you will use swords, and most seem to be of a specific make so they have names in the context like: " A genuine Guelan. More than that, a genuine Guelan broadsword - there where only about five of them left in existence - rather than the more but still murderously valuable law-swords that the great smith had made his reputation with.... No one had ever made military swords like the great Liras Guelan... Nobody before or after had hit on the precise harmony of weight and balance that made it the next best thing to perfect, for single- or double-handed use, cutting or thrusting.... A Guelan broadsword they said, should be allowed to fight for you: it knew what it was doing, and all the wielder had to or should do was hang on to the blunt end and watch the fun." so anybody have any ideas like that? i have no idea if i'm getting this across like i want to... well anyway, thank you in advance, if you have questions please ask away
Just another user 04-11-06, 03:18 AM	That sound something that Valenars, or at least, some Valenar family, would do. Outside of them... I don't know, maybe Karnath could do it, maybe limited to some kind of trials. Maybe limited to people inside a certain organization, like ex graduated from the I-don't-remember-the-name accademy. It should not be necessarily legal, only traditional, everybody know they do it, even if mostly as an urban legend, but autorities keep their head turned the other way. Another possibility could be Daargun, maybe the lost Dakkhani(sp) clans. Their legal system could be based on martial ability. Droam, I don't see it as sofisticated enough for something like that, in Droam there is not trials, or duels, or other cerimonies if someone have something agaist you it just bash you in the head with a tree trunk and it is over.
Naudachu 04-11-06, 05:59 PM	I could see this in parts of Darguun, maybe reserved for disputes between tribes. It could even be practiced among the Marguul bugbears. Another idea is the first blood concept was an ancient Cyran custom still practiced by refugees in remote areas of Q'Barra. Having unique swords crafted for law is an interesting idea. Maybe there are some still around (or some waiting to be rediscovered) that were crafted in the time of Karrn the Conquerer. Justice was meted out by justicars hounding down criminals with these swords as a symbol of the new order. They could even have been forged by Mror dwarves, perhaps reluctantly, after they were conquered.
Sereno 04-12-06, 09:20 AM	No one had ever made military swords like the great Liras Guelan... Nobody before or after had hit on the precise harmony of weight and balance that made it the next best thing to perfect, for single- or double-handed use, cutting or thrusting.... That just reads strangely to me ... I'll admit to having a hard time imagining a society where the best weapons go to lawyers instead of soldiers. Although, it could make sense in a world where there aren't many wars (a large stable empire?) and the finest weapons can only be afforded by the most wealthy. The advocates would be very wealthy as their role is integral to the functioning of society. Plus, as a side-benefit, there'd wouldn't be very many nuisance lawsuits or "ambulance chasers!" :) But, it would suck to be a prosecutor ... fighting ALL the time; you'd better be pretty good or you'd have a short career. As far as which societies could have a legal system like this, I agree with most of the above posters; the Dhakaani and the Valenar make the most sense, with noble Kaarnathi being a more distant third.