Aereni-Argonessen War [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aereni-Argonessen War [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dang
01-29-06, 05:40 PM so named in the style of the Franco-Prussian...

anywho, i've found myself in a difficult position -- i need to come up with an explanation of how it started, and why... which leads me to my question: WHY? (dern cataclysm mage prestige class complicates everything!) creative geniuses, lend a hand. negative brownie points to anyone who references clues found in the infamous "legend of aeren."

btw, how'd those little elfies succeed where the giants didn't?
Siran Dunmorgan
01-30-06, 11:12 AM so named in the style of the Franco-Prussian...

anywho, i've found myself in a difficult position -- i need to come up with an explanation of how it started, and why... which leads me to my question: WHY? (dern cataclysm mage prestige class complicates everything!) creative geniuses, lend a hand. negative brownie points to anyone who references clues found in the infamous "legend of aeren."

btw, how'd those little elfies succeed where the giants didn't?
Officially, no one knows: it's one of the things that we get to make up on our own, like the cause of the Mourning.

For myself, I look at bits and pieces of information that have been let fall from the Eberron Campaign Setting and related texts.

We know from the House Phiarlan Dragonshard articles that the first attacks of the war were of Argonnessen agression against Aerenal, after the establishment of the Undying, and that it was in the aftemath of the first wave of attacks that the Undying Court established the Sibling Kings to manage the living of a united Aerenal.

We know also from the Eberron Campaign Setting that later the dragons "watched in awe and horror" as the Prophecy began to play itself out among the lesser races.

Taking these statements into consideration, I submit that the dragons saw the Undying Court as a threat to their monopoly on the understanding of the Prophecy.

Consider: dragons are the longest lived of fully mortal creatures. Their long lives allow them to grow not only in power, but in understanding of their chosen fields of endeavor: we interpret this as the dragon taking class levels in addition to their age category as dragons.

From the end of the Age of Demons to the rise of the Undying Court, there were no members of the so-called "lesser" races who could match the dragons for depth of understanding of the Prophecy: no one but outsiders could reasonably expect to live long enough to learn enough of it to make snse, and the few undead who could rise to the challenge had other concerns—there is something about potent undead that makes them lust for power, rather than understanding.

The rise of the Undying Court changed that. There is some evidence to suggest that at least some of the breakthrough understanding of necromacy that makes the Undying viable originated with the dragons, a point to which I will shortly return.

Perhaps more importantly the function of the Undying Court within Aeeni society is such that they spend much of their time in meditation, free of the limitation in time which had prevented their race from comprehending what they had seen of the Prophecy.

In this scenario, the Dragons attacked, initially, to break the power of the Undying Court before it could be fully established and allow non-dragons access to the secrets of the Prophecy, and have periodically renewed the war when they gain some advantage that they believe will give them the uper hand as it were in the conflict.

Another issue is that dragons—even Eberron's dragons with their relaxed alignment restrictions—are greedy. They are reluctant to give up that which is theirs, and they are generally furious at the idea of a thief.

Now, this next supposition is a bit of a stretch, so feel free to ignore it if you will: we know from the Eberron Campaign Setting that the rare metal targath can be used to bypass the damage reduction of the Undying. It is intriguing to speculate that perhaps targath is used in the ritual that makes the Undying, in combination with the central manifest zone of Aerenal.

In this scenario, the first targath was mined without the permission of the dragons, and the dragons are attempting to strike down the lineage of the "thieves". Note that while the dragons may regard the original targath as 'their' property, they are not averse to selling it: witness the "typical Blod of Vol priest", who carries enough targath on his person—in the form of a dagger—to generate a saving throw bonus against disease.

—Siran Dunmorgan
Hellcow
01-30-06, 05:04 PM btw, how'd those little elfies succeed where the giants didn't?
I don't have time to answer in detail, and I don't want to derail your speculation (for what it's worth, I think Siran has some excellent points). But I will make two points. First, don't assume that ALL dragons support or took part in the skirmishes against Aerenal. We say "the dragons of Argonnessen" in the same way we say "the giants of Xen'drik" - but the fact of the matter is that neither of these are or were monolithic cultures. A key point on this is the line of Vol, which allied with one group of dragons and was then destroyed through Aerenal's alliance with another group of dragons.

So to begin with, the Xen'drik cataclysm involved a more unified draconic force than the Aereni-Dragon conflicts.

Second, the key to how those little elfies succeeded is the Undying Court. Note that the elfies have never been able to effectively take the battle back to Argonnessen (though I suspect they've tried on occasion), but only to fend off attacks. Why? Because the Undying Court, as a gestalt entity, is one of the only known, provably sentient forces that possesses divine power in Eberron: in a world where gods don't walk the Earth, the Undying Court IS a god (at least, taken en masse). What we have said, however, is that it can only manifest its full divine might in the vicinity of Aerenal - and that beyond this sacred land it can only channel its energy through its priests in the form of spells, just like any other divine force.

So it's a stalemate. Off of Aerenal, there's no question that the dragons have the power edge. But the Court can bring immense power to bear in the defense of Aerenal itself (though it's still unclear precisely what form that power takes; the fact that the Tairnadal have helped defend Aerenal in these draconic struggles implies that the power may still need to be channelled through elves, as opposed to being bolts of lightning falling from the sky).

Let me reiterate that in my opinion, it is the Court as a gestalt entity that possesses this power - that wielding this level of energy requires hundreds of Undying Councilors working in concert. The individual members of the Court are not gods: but working together they serve as a lens for this greater level of power.
dang
01-30-06, 10:13 PM two lengthy and excellent answers -- thank you both, very much!

i tend to agree with you siran, that the dragons were motivated by power-jealousy. would it also be possible that they work with a more noble motive, however? for example, might the undying court appear as another planar incursion? they fought against the quori (or at least equipped the giants in their fight), and taught the orcs to guard against xoriat, might they also see the undying as a form of irian-invasion? the planes might after all be connected to the moons, dragonmarks, and prophecy... i guess, like Keith wrote, it would depend on which dragons fought the elves.

i think the "noble dragon" theory is interesting, but i can't connect all the dots, so Siran's is probably the best option. thanks, hellcow, for the perspective!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dang 01-29-06, 05:40 PM	so named in the style of the Franco-Prussian... anywho, i've found myself in a difficult position -- i need to come up with an explanation of how it started, and why... which leads me to my question: WHY? (dern cataclysm mage prestige class complicates everything!) creative geniuses, lend a hand. negative brownie points to anyone who references clues found in the infamous "legend of aeren." btw, how'd those little elfies succeed where the giants didn't?
Siran Dunmorgan 01-30-06, 11:12 AM	so named in the style of the Franco-Prussian... anywho, i've found myself in a difficult position -- i need to come up with an explanation of how it started, and why... which leads me to my question: WHY? (dern cataclysm mage prestige class complicates everything!) creative geniuses, lend a hand. negative brownie points to anyone who references clues found in the infamous "legend of aeren." btw, how'd those little elfies succeed where the giants didn't? Officially, no one knows: it's one of the things that we get to make up on our own, like the cause of the Mourning. For myself, I look at bits and pieces of information that have been let fall from the Eberron Campaign Setting and related texts. We know from the House Phiarlan Dragonshard articles that the first attacks of the war were of Argonnessen agression against Aerenal, after the establishment of the Undying, and that it was in the aftemath of the first wave of attacks that the Undying Court established the Sibling Kings to manage the living of a united Aerenal. We know also from the Eberron Campaign Setting that later the dragons "watched in awe and horror" as the Prophecy began to play itself out among the lesser races. Taking these statements into consideration, I submit that the dragons saw the Undying Court as a threat to their monopoly on the understanding of the Prophecy. Consider: dragons are the longest lived of fully mortal creatures. Their long lives allow them to grow not only in power, but in understanding of their chosen fields of endeavor: we interpret this as the dragon taking class levels in addition to their age category as dragons. From the end of the Age of Demons to the rise of the Undying Court, there were no members of the so-called "lesser" races who could match the dragons for depth of understanding of the Prophecy: no one but outsiders could reasonably expect to live long enough to learn enough of it to make snse, and the few undead who could rise to the challenge had other concerns—there is something about potent undead that makes them lust for power, rather than understanding. The rise of the Undying Court changed that. There is some evidence to suggest that at least some of the breakthrough understanding of necromacy that makes the Undying viable originated with the dragons, a point to which I will shortly return. Perhaps more importantly the function of the Undying Court within Aeeni society is such that they spend much of their time in meditation, free of the limitation in time which had prevented their race from comprehending what they had seen of the Prophecy. In this scenario, the Dragons attacked, initially, to break the power of the Undying Court before it could be fully established and allow non-dragons access to the secrets of the Prophecy, and have periodically renewed the war when they gain some advantage that they believe will give them the uper hand as it were in the conflict. Another issue is that dragons—even Eberron's dragons with their relaxed alignment restrictions—are greedy. They are reluctant to give up that which is theirs, and they are generally furious at the idea of a thief. Now, this next supposition is a bit of a stretch, so feel free to ignore it if you will: we know from the Eberron Campaign Setting that the rare metal targath can be used to bypass the damage reduction of the Undying. It is intriguing to speculate that perhaps targath is used in the ritual that makes the Undying, in combination with the central manifest zone of Aerenal. In this scenario, the first targath was mined without the permission of the dragons, and the dragons are attempting to strike down the lineage of the "thieves". Note that while the dragons may regard the original targath as 'their' property, they are not averse to selling it: witness the "typical Blod of Vol priest", who carries enough targath on his person—in the form of a dagger—to generate a saving throw bonus against disease. —Siran Dunmorgan
Hellcow 01-30-06, 05:04 PM	btw, how'd those little elfies succeed where the giants didn't? I don't have time to answer in detail, and I don't want to derail your speculation (for what it's worth, I think Siran has some excellent points). But I will make two points. First, don't assume that ALL dragons support or took part in the skirmishes against Aerenal. We say "the dragons of Argonnessen" in the same way we say "the giants of Xen'drik" - but the fact of the matter is that neither of these are or were monolithic cultures. A key point on this is the line of Vol, which allied with one group of dragons and was then destroyed through Aerenal's alliance with another group of dragons. So to begin with, the Xen'drik cataclysm involved a more unified draconic force than the Aereni-Dragon conflicts. Second, the key to how those little elfies succeeded is the Undying Court. Note that the elfies have never been able to effectively take the battle back to Argonnessen (though I suspect they've tried on occasion), but only to fend off attacks. Why? Because the Undying Court, as a gestalt entity, is one of the only known, provably sentient forces that possesses divine power in Eberron: in a world where gods don't walk the Earth, the Undying Court IS a god (at least, taken en masse). What we have said, however, is that it can only manifest its full divine might in the vicinity of Aerenal - and that beyond this sacred land it can only channel its energy through its priests in the form of spells, just like any other divine force. So it's a stalemate. Off of Aerenal, there's no question that the dragons have the power edge. But the Court can bring immense power to bear in the defense of Aerenal itself (though it's still unclear precisely what form that power takes; the fact that the Tairnadal have helped defend Aerenal in these draconic struggles implies that the power may still need to be channelled through elves, as opposed to being bolts of lightning falling from the sky). Let me reiterate that in my opinion, it is the Court as a gestalt entity that possesses this power - that wielding this level of energy requires hundreds of Undying Councilors working in concert. The individual members of the Court are not gods: but working together they serve as a lens for this greater level of power.
dang 01-30-06, 10:13 PM	two lengthy and excellent answers -- thank you both, very much! i tend to agree with you siran, that the dragons were motivated by power-jealousy. would it also be possible that they work with a more noble motive, however? for example, might the undying court appear as another planar incursion? they fought against the quori (or at least equipped the giants in their fight), and taught the orcs to guard against xoriat, might they also see the undying as a form of irian-invasion? the planes might after all be connected to the moons, dragonmarks, and prophecy... i guess, like Keith wrote, it would depend on which dragons fought the elves. i think the "noble dragon" theory is interesting, but i can't connect all the dots, so Siran's is probably the best option. thanks, hellcow, for the perspective!