Ah my new group... and their first adventure [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ah my new group... and their first adventure [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beleriphon
09-05-05, 02:17 AM Well, I was having a blase with Forgotten Forge. The characters a blowing thorugh most of the fights, thanks to a lucky shifter monk and his obession with grappling. That is until they try to fight Sabre. They go mashed, and mashed hard. I managed to get a critical on one of the characters, doing one point short of max damage with his longsword. At first level, this killed the poor PC in one blow. It was a fun fight, and the elf ranger got him down to 1 hit point, he only need to do another 4 points of damage (can't forget that wonderful DR 2 adamantine he Sabre has).

So any ways, I have a TPK on my hands. All the guys are ready to roll up some new characters. This time I think I'm going to start with my own adventure. Something about pirates. No matter what I'm going to have to use the Lord of Blades as the main BBEG, if only because I put the fear of him into the group. Oh, and Sabre will have to make a return appearence.

Just to be clear, this isn't a rant about the adventure, it actually went pretty well. The characters even managed to kill the beetle swarm and horrid rats with little trouble. Over all great fun.
zerotkatama
09-05-05, 03:35 AM You might want to start building on the repurcussions of the orginal party failing. Not to punish you players, but to show them that these things do happen, and they have consequences.
Kalanth
09-05-05, 03:52 AM Most times when a person mentions the TPK I see a lot of people jump up and say that the DM was unfair and the guy/girl should be replaced. I realize this has not happened here yet, but it might (it happened when I comicaly told people about the TPK I experienced due to the Dire Shark in the third module).

I, however, agree with the point zerotkatama made, you should build on this failure. Afterall, there is a whole plot that runs along after this where the schema's are needed in Xen'Drik. So much good stuff could happen from this, and the new PC's could inadvertently end up in the hot seat because of it.

Sabre might get himself a promotion from the LoB and become his 2nd in command because of his efforts to recover the schema. The LoB may also have figured out how to fire up the White Hearth weapon and become a much larger problem than he is. Oh my mind is realing from the possibilities.

I remember being in a TPK one shot game that created a major backstory for the guys Homebrew. A single Orc killed all three PC's in 1 on 3 combat. He became a general in the army, his sword an artifact (Hero Slayer) and his nation was a powerful nation of war that was almost unstoppable (Thanks to the Eye of Grummish). It was good times and provided much fun for the players in future games because we knew why things were as they were.
Tek
09-05-05, 04:28 PM I agree that there should be reprecussions, but if you're going to be writing your own adventures now on, and don't want the whole thing to be a major plot point, you don't have to have it as one.
Beleriphon
09-05-05, 05:05 PM I agree that there should be reprecussions, but if you're going to be writing your own adventures now on, and don't want the whole thing to be a major plot point, you don't have to have it as one.

In general terms I'm probably going to try some high flying swashbuckling action revolving around House Lyrander and pirates. What I do plan on working with is having Sabre come back again as a more powreful foe. I don't think he's going to be the LOBster's second just yet. He will have gained some significant merit with though.
Aneul
09-05-05, 06:49 PM House Cannith still needs the schema....what if your new party was hired by lady Eladrian (sp?) to find out what happened to the first batch of fools she sent down there...and to recover the schema from whatever stopped them? Since your PCs already know the way down to the Forge chamber and have fought the encounters there from the original adventure, you could start your new party off with their characters standing over the bloody corpses of the old PCs, and reading the ominous message Sabre scrawled in blood on the walls of the tunnle as a warning to House Cannith. It could be really good. And, best of all, you can use Sabre as the the archvillian for this plot arch of your campaign and know that your players will hunt him down with extra fervor becouse they'll be seething OOC from their prior defeat at his hands.

Edit- Sabre could enlist the aid of some Airship pirates to get back to the Mournland quickly, and the PCs could enlist the aid of the Lyranders, so you could work in your Airships and piracy ideas too.
UnkemptSage
09-05-05, 06:59 PM House Cannith still needs the schema....what if your new party was hired by lady Eladrian (sp?) to find out what happened to the first batch of fools she sent down there...and to recover the schema from whatever stopped them? Since your PCs already know the way down to the Forge chamber and have fought the encounters there from the original adventure, you could start your new party off with their characters standing over the bloody corpses of the old PCs, and reading the ominous message Sabre scrawled in blood on the walls of the tunnle as a warning to House Cannith. It could be really good. And, best of all, you can use Sabre as the the archvillian for this plot arch of your campaign and know that your players will hunt him down with extra fervor becouse they'll be seething OOC from their prior defeat at his hands.
Ooh, I like that :D I'll keep that one in mind for future reference.
Tek
09-05-05, 07:12 PM Those kind of hooks work, if you're planning on running an extension to the old campaign. I don't think he wants to do that, so forcing that kind of plot isn't going to work. I think I see it as his PC's wouldn't really enjoy picking at the scraps their older dead PC's left behind, so by starting a completely new arch, without having anything to do with the schemas might work. You could still tie them in, however. Your choice.
Kid SixXx
09-05-05, 07:17 PM Well, I was having a blase with Forgotten Forge. The characters a blowing thorugh most of the fights, thanks to a lucky shifter monk and his obession with grappling. That is until they try to fight Sabre. They go mashed, and mashed hard. I managed to get a critical on one of the characters, doing one point short of max damage with his longsword. At first level, this killed the poor PC in one blow. It was a fun fight, and the elf ranger got him down to 1 hit point, he only need to do another 4 points of damage (can't forget that wonderful DR 2 adamantine he Sabre has)..

The party I DM had more trouble with the Horrid Rats (even though there were six members of the party) than they did with Sabre, but Sabre was still a handfull.

The key to the defeat of Sabre came from preparation. The party camped after getting past Scalpel and his Shifter Mercs, Neveah and Jobal'jah.

(I made up a name for the NPC's. It annoyed me that they didn't have names. I also converted the Shifters to a mated pair instead of two males. Neveah was a female Razorclaw.)

The artificer took the time to scribe a Cure Light Wounds spell. During the fight, Sabre managed to crit the Shifter Ranger and nearly killed him. The Artificer used her scroll while the Shifter shifted to allow his Healing Factor to kick in. For all intents and purposes, these two were non-factors for the rest of the fight.

Meanwhile the Cleric buffed the party with Bless & took a defensive position near the badly wounded Shifter. The WF Fighter (also with Adamantine Body) engaged Sabre & roughed him up to the point that the Changeling rogue had a chance to severly injure Sabre via an effective Sneak Attack.

Nothing doing. Sabre's DR and a bad damage roll from the Changeling only served to draw Sabre's attention. The Changeling then began to Tumble away for dear life.

However the rogue was a diversion. The only thing Sabre accomplished in chasing the rogue was coming in range of the Kalashtar Psion / Telepath.

One Augmented Mind Thrust later (assisted by Action Points, naturally) and the fight was over.

If that tactic had not worked, Sabre would have most likely killed the entire party (probably starting with the Psion), as Sabre was very high on the initiative list thanks to his Improved Initiative feat and Sabre's minimal amount of DR proved to be a surprising problem for the PC's.

During the fight, the party's WF fighter got pretty badly banged up from Sabre's magical sword. No one in the party had the HP or the spells / infusions to survive a prolonged encounter with Sabre.

The triumphant party (triumphant in spirit perhaps but not in body, given the bruises) then finished looting, and returned to Lady d'Cannith.

I was happy to see that even though I did not buff Sabre's stats or equipment, he still provided an adequate challenge for six 1st lvl PC's.

I was also happy that I decided to make Sabre fight to the death rather than try to escape, as the party seemed to enjoy the fact that they performed well as a team and managed to soundly defeat their first serious villain.
UnkemptSage
09-05-05, 09:46 PM Now that's an exciting battle report! I wish I saw more like that.
KhorvaireChronicler
09-06-05, 06:01 AM Sounds like an all-too-common occurance in Eberron. I've been DM'ing for some time now and had the personal satisfaction of four TPK's.

For the first time in ages I got a chance to play a character and posted on the AKB thread for some further advice on background. Anyhow, I handed over the mantle of DM to my son and he wanted to run the 'Forge' adventure to 'sharpen his teeth' (It was his first attempt at DM'ing!).

The party wasn't exactly weak. My Hobgoblin Psychic Warrior, a Gnome Bard, Shifter Ranger and a Human Warlock. With the skill and feat selections they could have proved to ba a formidable force to be reconned with. Unfortunatly if failed to be. Everything was running smoothly at first, with some of the best roleplaying I'd been privvy to for some time. That is, until the combat started.

Decending into the the tunnel the shifter ranger on point noticed the Warforged in hiding and proceeded to shift (Razorclaw) and bullrush him down the stairs. She only partially suceeded, resulting in her and the forged wrestling at the bottom of the stair well, with no one able to come to her aid effectively. The Gnome tumbled over their heads and landed in the water, the Warlock proceeded to load his heavy crossbow and aim at the brawling pair, the shot missed the 'forged and scored a critical hit against the shifter, killing her outright. The only thing my Hobgoblin could do (being last in the initiative order) was try the shifter's tactic again, which suceeded and the 'forged was forced back into the water, alowing the three remaining team members to spread out.

With the ranger down, and nobody else in the party with decent spot or listen skills they didn't spot the two Shifter's approaching silently up the tunnel. The forged and the Hobgoblin commenced in a mammoth duel that lasted for 8 rounds and finally culminated in the death of the forged. Meanwhile the bard and warlock turned their attention to the rest of the tunnel and refused to aid the Hobgoblin saying he was big enough and ugly enough to deal with the threat himself.

The Bard illuminated the tunnel with Dancing Lights, but too late, the shifters were already upon them and both the Gnome and Warlock were the subject of sneak attacks, having not heard or seen the approaching enemy. Both were reduced to minus HP and fell unconscious. It was at this point that my son happily allowed me to continue fighting the forged alone, while the two shifter's began to devour the corpses of my team mates (he had decided they were cannibals). When I finally defeated the Warforged (I was rolling very badly that day) I was on 2HP and the shifter's, hunger abaited were turning their beady eyes on me. I did the only reasonable thing you can do in such circumstances. Hefting my Gyrspike I charged them both, and died in glory!

The party didn't even make it past the first encounter and my son was so smug I decided to reclaim my mantle as DM from him.
Kid SixXx
09-06-05, 09:21 PM Wow, KC, I'm terribly sorry to hear about the TPK.

One thing I've noticed from playstesting before I run modules or adventures is that Eberron material seems to have the spending of Action Points built into the structure.

Some encounters in the three published modules are downright infamous in their lethality or near-lethality.

The aforementioned Horrid Rats: Forgotten Forge
Boss fight with Sabre: Forgotten Forge
Dire Shark encounter: Grasp of the Emerald Claw
Encounter with the Drowned: Grasp of the Emerald Claw
The "coach ride" fireball: Whisper of the Vampire's Blade

Ad infinitum. I could name others but my list would be pretty extensive and kinda spoilerish, hence the hidden text.

Suffice to say that I'm pretty sure that the difficulty is built in on the notion that you should probably be spending your AP in situations that are obviously uber-dangerous.
(Psi)SeveredHead
09-06-05, 11:27 PM You should have included that beetle swarm.
Kid SixXx
09-07-05, 06:48 AM You should have included that beetle swarm.

Beetle Swarm was a dead giveaway if your party took time to ask questions.

Spoiler Block for those that haven't run or played the adventure yet.

In the "Are there any dangers we should be aware of?" section of the conversation suggestions for Lady Elaydren, she specifically says that Bonal (ie. the murdered scholar for those that don't know) mentioned before he died that he'd definitely need to bring along fire for the expedition.

Upon hearing that, the first thing the Party I DMed did was go shopping for flasks of oil. When the time came, the party was able to disperse the swarm with few problems. Sadly the brief fire & the smell of charred beetles attracted the Horrid Rats, but such is the peril of being an adventurer.

Naturally, if the party had not asked questions, I wouldn't have been obliged to give them that information.
Ricohard_Draconis
09-07-05, 09:54 AM mine was the same, they got that piece of info and bought the items.

didn't help that the rogue missed every time...
Umlaut
09-12-05, 01:31 PM I just ran this module as a player (25 pointWF Fighter). I rolled high in every combat, and got four or five one hit kills. The final kill (and icing on the cake) was when I charged Sabre in the second round with a MW greataxe. I rolled a 20 (+7) and then a 13 (+7 again), scoring a 3x crit at d12+4. I did 35 damage and dropped him with the first hit. There goes that problem :) .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beleriphon 09-05-05, 02:17 AM	Well, I was having a blase with Forgotten Forge. The characters a blowing thorugh most of the fights, thanks to a lucky shifter monk and his obession with grappling. That is until they try to fight Sabre. They go mashed, and mashed hard. I managed to get a critical on one of the characters, doing one point short of max damage with his longsword. At first level, this killed the poor PC in one blow. It was a fun fight, and the elf ranger got him down to 1 hit point, he only need to do another 4 points of damage (can't forget that wonderful DR 2 adamantine he Sabre has). So any ways, I have a TPK on my hands. All the guys are ready to roll up some new characters. This time I think I'm going to start with my own adventure. Something about pirates. No matter what I'm going to have to use the Lord of Blades as the main BBEG, if only because I put the fear of him into the group. Oh, and Sabre will have to make a return appearence. Just to be clear, this isn't a rant about the adventure, it actually went pretty well. The characters even managed to kill the beetle swarm and horrid rats with little trouble. Over all great fun.
zerotkatama 09-05-05, 03:35 AM	You might want to start building on the repurcussions of the orginal party failing. Not to punish you players, but to show them that these things do happen, and they have consequences.
Kalanth 09-05-05, 03:52 AM	Most times when a person mentions the TPK I see a lot of people jump up and say that the DM was unfair and the guy/girl should be replaced. I realize this has not happened here yet, but it might (it happened when I comicaly told people about the TPK I experienced due to the Dire Shark in the third module). I, however, agree with the point zerotkatama made, you should build on this failure. Afterall, there is a whole plot that runs along after this where the schema's are needed in Xen'Drik. So much good stuff could happen from this, and the new PC's could inadvertently end up in the hot seat because of it. Sabre might get himself a promotion from the LoB and become his 2nd in command because of his efforts to recover the schema. The LoB may also have figured out how to fire up the White Hearth weapon and become a much larger problem than he is. Oh my mind is realing from the possibilities. I remember being in a TPK one shot game that created a major backstory for the guys Homebrew. A single Orc killed all three PC's in 1 on 3 combat. He became a general in the army, his sword an artifact (Hero Slayer) and his nation was a powerful nation of war that was almost unstoppable (Thanks to the Eye of Grummish). It was good times and provided much fun for the players in future games because we knew why things were as they were.
Tek 09-05-05, 04:28 PM	I agree that there should be reprecussions, but if you're going to be writing your own adventures now on, and don't want the whole thing to be a major plot point, you don't have to have it as one.
Beleriphon 09-05-05, 05:05 PM	I agree that there should be reprecussions, but if you're going to be writing your own adventures now on, and don't want the whole thing to be a major plot point, you don't have to have it as one. In general terms I'm probably going to try some high flying swashbuckling action revolving around House Lyrander and pirates. What I do plan on working with is having Sabre come back again as a more powreful foe. I don't think he's going to be the LOBster's second just yet. He will have gained some significant merit with though.
Aneul 09-05-05, 06:49 PM	House Cannith still needs the schema....what if your new party was hired by lady Eladrian (sp?) to find out what happened to the first batch of fools she sent down there...and to recover the schema from whatever stopped them? Since your PCs already know the way down to the Forge chamber and have fought the encounters there from the original adventure, you could start your new party off with their characters standing over the bloody corpses of the old PCs, and reading the ominous message Sabre scrawled in blood on the walls of the tunnle as a warning to House Cannith. It could be really good. And, best of all, you can use Sabre as the the archvillian for this plot arch of your campaign and know that your players will hunt him down with extra fervor becouse they'll be seething OOC from their prior defeat at his hands. Edit- Sabre could enlist the aid of some Airship pirates to get back to the Mournland quickly, and the PCs could enlist the aid of the Lyranders, so you could work in your Airships and piracy ideas too.
UnkemptSage 09-05-05, 06:59 PM	House Cannith still needs the schema....what if your new party was hired by lady Eladrian (sp?) to find out what happened to the first batch of fools she sent down there...and to recover the schema from whatever stopped them? Since your PCs already know the way down to the Forge chamber and have fought the encounters there from the original adventure, you could start your new party off with their characters standing over the bloody corpses of the old PCs, and reading the ominous message Sabre scrawled in blood on the walls of the tunnle as a warning to House Cannith. It could be really good. And, best of all, you can use Sabre as the the archvillian for this plot arch of your campaign and know that your players will hunt him down with extra fervor becouse they'll be seething OOC from their prior defeat at his hands. Ooh, I like that :D I'll keep that one in mind for future reference.
Tek 09-05-05, 07:12 PM	Those kind of hooks work, if you're planning on running an extension to the old campaign. I don't think he wants to do that, so forcing that kind of plot isn't going to work. I think I see it as his PC's wouldn't really enjoy picking at the scraps their older dead PC's left behind, so by starting a completely new arch, without having anything to do with the schemas might work. You could still tie them in, however. Your choice.
Kid SixXx 09-05-05, 07:17 PM	Well, I was having a blase with Forgotten Forge. The characters a blowing thorugh most of the fights, thanks to a lucky shifter monk and his obession with grappling. That is until they try to fight Sabre. They go mashed, and mashed hard. I managed to get a critical on one of the characters, doing one point short of max damage with his longsword. At first level, this killed the poor PC in one blow. It was a fun fight, and the elf ranger got him down to 1 hit point, he only need to do another 4 points of damage (can't forget that wonderful DR 2 adamantine he Sabre has).. The party I DM had more trouble with the Horrid Rats (even though there were six members of the party) than they did with Sabre, but Sabre was still a handfull. The key to the defeat of Sabre came from preparation. The party camped after getting past Scalpel and his Shifter Mercs, Neveah and Jobal'jah. (I made up a name for the NPC's. It annoyed me that they didn't have names. I also converted the Shifters to a mated pair instead of two males. Neveah was a female Razorclaw.) The artificer took the time to scribe a Cure Light Wounds spell. During the fight, Sabre managed to crit the Shifter Ranger and nearly killed him. The Artificer used her scroll while the Shifter shifted to allow his Healing Factor to kick in. For all intents and purposes, these two were non-factors for the rest of the fight. Meanwhile the Cleric buffed the party with Bless & took a defensive position near the badly wounded Shifter. The WF Fighter (also with Adamantine Body) engaged Sabre & roughed him up to the point that the Changeling rogue had a chance to severly injure Sabre via an effective Sneak Attack. Nothing doing. Sabre's DR and a bad damage roll from the Changeling only served to draw Sabre's attention. The Changeling then began to Tumble away for dear life. However the rogue was a diversion. The only thing Sabre accomplished in chasing the rogue was coming in range of the Kalashtar Psion / Telepath. One Augmented Mind Thrust later (assisted by Action Points, naturally) and the fight was over. If that tactic had not worked, Sabre would have most likely killed the entire party (probably starting with the Psion), as Sabre was very high on the initiative list thanks to his Improved Initiative feat and Sabre's minimal amount of DR proved to be a surprising problem for the PC's. During the fight, the party's WF fighter got pretty badly banged up from Sabre's magical sword. No one in the party had the HP or the spells / infusions to survive a prolonged encounter with Sabre. The triumphant party (triumphant in spirit perhaps but not in body, given the bruises) then finished looting, and returned to Lady d'Cannith. I was happy to see that even though I did not buff Sabre's stats or equipment, he still provided an adequate challenge for six 1st lvl PC's. I was also happy that I decided to make Sabre fight to the death rather than try to escape, as the party seemed to enjoy the fact that they performed well as a team and managed to soundly defeat their first serious villain.
UnkemptSage 09-05-05, 09:46 PM	Now that's an exciting battle report! I wish I saw more like that.
KhorvaireChronicler 09-06-05, 06:01 AM	Sounds like an all-too-common occurance in Eberron. I've been DM'ing for some time now and had the personal satisfaction of four TPK's. For the first time in ages I got a chance to play a character and posted on the AKB thread for some further advice on background. Anyhow, I handed over the mantle of DM to my son and he wanted to run the 'Forge' adventure to 'sharpen his teeth' (It was his first attempt at DM'ing!). The party wasn't exactly weak. My Hobgoblin Psychic Warrior, a Gnome Bard, Shifter Ranger and a Human Warlock. With the skill and feat selections they could have proved to ba a formidable force to be reconned with. Unfortunatly if failed to be. Everything was running smoothly at first, with some of the best roleplaying I'd been privvy to for some time. That is, until the combat started. Decending into the the tunnel the shifter ranger on point noticed the Warforged in hiding and proceeded to shift (Razorclaw) and bullrush him down the stairs. She only partially suceeded, resulting in her and the forged wrestling at the bottom of the stair well, with no one able to come to her aid effectively. The Gnome tumbled over their heads and landed in the water, the Warlock proceeded to load his heavy crossbow and aim at the brawling pair, the shot missed the 'forged and scored a critical hit against the shifter, killing her outright. The only thing my Hobgoblin could do (being last in the initiative order) was try the shifter's tactic again, which suceeded and the 'forged was forced back into the water, alowing the three remaining team members to spread out. With the ranger down, and nobody else in the party with decent spot or listen skills they didn't spot the two Shifter's approaching silently up the tunnel. The forged and the Hobgoblin commenced in a mammoth duel that lasted for 8 rounds and finally culminated in the death of the forged. Meanwhile the bard and warlock turned their attention to the rest of the tunnel and refused to aid the Hobgoblin saying he was big enough and ugly enough to deal with the threat himself. The Bard illuminated the tunnel with Dancing Lights, but too late, the shifters were already upon them and both the Gnome and Warlock were the subject of sneak attacks, having not heard or seen the approaching enemy. Both were reduced to minus HP and fell unconscious. It was at this point that my son happily allowed me to continue fighting the forged alone, while the two shifter's began to devour the corpses of my team mates (he had decided they were cannibals). When I finally defeated the Warforged (I was rolling very badly that day) I was on 2HP and the shifter's, hunger abaited were turning their beady eyes on me. I did the only reasonable thing you can do in such circumstances. Hefting my Gyrspike I charged them both, and died in glory! The party didn't even make it past the first encounter and my son was so smug I decided to reclaim my mantle as DM from him.
Kid SixXx 09-06-05, 09:21 PM	Wow, KC, I'm terribly sorry to hear about the TPK. One thing I've noticed from playstesting before I run modules or adventures is that Eberron material seems to have the spending of Action Points built into the structure. Some encounters in the three published modules are downright infamous in their lethality or near-lethality. The aforementioned Horrid Rats: Forgotten Forge Boss fight with Sabre: Forgotten Forge Dire Shark encounter: Grasp of the Emerald Claw Encounter with the Drowned: Grasp of the Emerald Claw The "coach ride" fireball: Whisper of the Vampire's Blade Ad infinitum. I could name others but my list would be pretty extensive and kinda spoilerish, hence the hidden text. Suffice to say that I'm pretty sure that the difficulty is built in on the notion that you should probably be spending your AP in situations that are obviously uber-dangerous.
(Psi)SeveredHead 09-06-05, 11:27 PM	You should have included that beetle swarm.
Kid SixXx 09-07-05, 06:48 AM	You should have included that beetle swarm. Beetle Swarm was a dead giveaway if your party took time to ask questions. Spoiler Block for those that haven't run or played the adventure yet. In the "Are there any dangers we should be aware of?" section of the conversation suggestions for Lady Elaydren, she specifically says that Bonal (ie. the murdered scholar for those that don't know) mentioned before he died that he'd definitely need to bring along fire for the expedition. Upon hearing that, the first thing the Party I DMed did was go shopping for flasks of oil. When the time came, the party was able to disperse the swarm with few problems. Sadly the brief fire & the smell of charred beetles attracted the Horrid Rats, but such is the peril of being an adventurer. Naturally, if the party had not asked questions, I wouldn't have been obliged to give them that information.
Ricohard_Draconis 09-07-05, 09:54 AM	mine was the same, they got that piece of info and bought the items. didn't help that the rogue missed every time...
Umlaut 09-12-05, 01:31 PM	I just ran this module as a player (25 pointWF Fighter). I rolled high in every combat, and got four or five one hit kills. The final kill (and icing on the cake) was when I charged Sabre in the second round with a MW greataxe. I rolled a 20 (+7) and then a 13 (+7 again), scoring a 3x crit at d12+4. I did 35 damage and dropped him with the first hit. There goes that problem :) .