Post/Author/DateTime	Post
joro 07-05-05, 10:18 PM	At the risk of making my new capaign sound completely cheese -- I have a group of players that I have decided to allow to be "air pirates." Think Han Solo except with an airship. :D The problem that I am running into is how to run the piloting of the airship and how they actually came into ownership of the ship. Before I get into to specifics, I just want to say that I excited about running a different style of campaign like this because it is something completely different than an average D&D game and I think Eberron is perfect for testing running a game like this. Here are some of my ideas so far on using an airship for this campaign. 1) The airship isn't actually theirs per se -- at least not yet. The players are in a huge amount of debt and must "work" off their debt from their boss that gives them tasks and cargo to transport. Sometimes they get lucky and get a cut but most of the proceeds go to their debt. Hopefully this eliminates -- we have an airship, we must be rich! 2) Since airships are relatively new and just developed since the Last War, I was thinking that the player's airship is relatively small and a prototype. Since it is a prototype, it's hardly perfect. The elemental acts up all the time with a will of its own due to the imperfect "containment" and it's hardly like the ships that are in the service of House Lyrandar and House Orien. So basically, if the players aren't paying off debt -- they are stuck with trying to fix their airship and control their unruly elemental. One of the players is playing an artificier with a dragon mark from House Lyrandar so that player will probably be very busy most of the time. Those are the two major ideas that I have so far but I'm stuck on the mechanics. Since it seems that airships are intended for NPCs, I'm not sure where to look to get a feel for mechanics during regular gameplay. Something that I'm already considering is seriously high concertration checks for the pilot if the ship is under attack to control the elemental from bolting. Any suggestions or help is appreciated. I know that there is a supplemental book for airships out there, for anyone who has it -- is it something that I could possibly adapt to the Eberron elemental/dragonmark concept? Thanks!
Bodger 07-06-05, 09:46 PM	Hey i was thinking of the same thing for a plot/control device. The Han and Chewie are an half elf rogue and a warforged (with an arm crossbow). They were traveling thru Xen drik and found this hulking ship in the jungle. The design is based off of the M> Falcon with a bound air elemental. To get the vessel to be presentable they went to the gnomes to repair and rebuild her. Ala a gnome articifer/wright (R2) to keep every thing in check. Since the gnomes are the info/spy group they hire/barter for courier runs to coincide with cargo runs. This gives a basis to get the party all over eberron. I have the ship set up with a main deck with a lower cargo deck. There is a walkway along the outer hull that runs just inside the edge. and the bridge is a few steps up where the cockpit is positioned. Multi egressways can get you off port/starboard (doorway decklevel or ramp down) also there is a central turret dead center on top with a dual balista or a quad crossbow (magical of course) Lots of tricks for the ship. Bodger give me stuff and I will make good things don't give me stuff i will make bad stuff for you.
joro 07-07-05, 02:27 PM	Awesome. That gives me some ideas on how big to make my airship. So far I've come up with the following backstory: It is very unlikely that House Lyrandar would ever sell an airship to a group of adventurers; after all they commission the building of their airships to the gnomes of Zilargo. It is for that very reason that this tale begins in the capital of Zilargo, Trolanport. In most cases, the cost of airship building is very high with House Lyrandar’s airship at minimum costing 92,000 gp. However, airships have been developed very recently with the gnomes of Zilargo perfecting the art of elemental binding. It is, therefore, very likely that the gnomes had previously built prototypes of the ships that would evolve into the transport ships of Lyrandar. The gnomes even have discovered a method for binding elementals into vehicles, armor and weapons. Joaquin is a very charismatic gnome that deals in the selling of gnome magical items. He has hodge podge collection of goods for sale. Some items are valuable, others are not. But he would be willing to sell you all of the items “for a fair price.” His shop is in a poorer part of Trolanport and although it looks cluttered – it is impeccably clean and fresh smelling. When the adventurers first approach him, he denies he has an airship for sale. When the adventurers mention their boss and the letter of credit – he becomes much more open about his airship. He mentions that the airship is a steal for the price. The ship is an earlier model that was developed at the beginning of the Last War. It is a concept airship on a experimental binding technique, so it uses a smaller elemental and only takes 2 people to man the ship at the bare minimum but 4 people is optimal. If asked about the elemental, he mentions that it can be temperamental. A successful sense motive check of 20 will tell the adventurers that he is being very kind in just saying temperamental. By using diplomacy with a successful roll of 22 or better, he is persuaded into telling the adventurers that the elemental acts up from occasion and it harder to control and keep calm than later bindings of elementals. He is quick to add that the price is a steal! For rules during combat I've come up with following (however it is very very rough still and it's going to take me some more thought): An Elemental has no desire to be destroyed just like any other creature. During combat a pilot must successfully pass a concentration check each round to keep control of the elemental while being attacked. If the pilot is unsuccessful at succeeding their concentration check, the pilot must roll a contested charisma check at keeping the elemental calm. If a player has ranks of pilot airship, they may add this to their contested charisma check. Depending on the battle situation, the difficulty for successfully piloting an airship may change. If the charisma check is unsuccessful, for each round following the pilot suffers a -1 penalty to attempting to control the elemental. This penalty stacks; after 5 rounds of unsuccessfully keeping the elemental calm, the elemental will move the airship to preserve its survival. Since an elemental has a lower intelligence than a pilot, this movement may or may not be the best course of action for winning a battle. To regain control of the elemental, the pilot must make a full round action and a contested charisma check with the elemental to stop the elemental from erratic movement however the already incurred penalty remains the same. The pilot at any time may take a full round action to negate a previously unsuccessful charisma check at calming the elemental before the -5 penalty is incurred. If the pilot does not regain control after 2 rounds (for a total of 5 unsuccessful checks and 2 rounds after this point for a total of 7 rounds), the elemental will gain control and the pilot risks losing control of the elemental for 1d4 minutes. A good comparison is a rider losing control of a horse during a combat situation.
Keth_Rhiavadhi 07-07-05, 03:43 PM	The concentration check idea is a good one. You might even make a house ruling for the Ride skill. Or you could take the Pilot skill from the Star Wars Rpg, D20 modern, or the like.
DragonWatcher 07-07-05, 03:53 PM	According to the ECS (I don't have my book with me ATM, so I can't quote the page), to control an elemental vessel (such as an airship) requires the person at the helm to make an opposed Charisma roll against the elemental bound to the vehicle. Most elementals have a Cha bonus of +0. This check need only be made when a change of any kind is desired from the vessel (such as starting, stopping, turning, increasing or decreasing speed, etc.). Once a ship is moving in a given direction, it will continue to move in that direction at that speed until another opposed test is made. If the pilot wins the test, their desired change takes effect. If the elemental wins the test, the ship maintains the status quo. Keep in mind that an elemental bound to an airship is not even harmed, let alone destroyed if the binding ring is broken... it is freed. At which point it can either fight or escape. So, a combat going on around the ship shouldn't have any effect on the elemental's behavior. There is some debate as to whether or not the elemental is even aware of it's surroundings while it is bound, or whether it's only aware of the pilot's wishes. As to the cost of an airship... I would say at least 10 times the cost of a water vessel, but that's just a guess. To this point there is no official pricing for such a vehicle.
joro 07-07-05, 04:09 PM	I was aware of the charisma check for changing direction, however I wanted something for combat since I don't want the pilot player to say "hey, I put it on auto pilot" or "I just let it go the same direction" and then fight as if they don't need to concertrate. I also want some type of consequences if they could not keep control of the airship. Since it was described in the book almost like a contest of wills, I thought if they couldn't keep their concertration they would have to try to regain control by rolling another charisma check. As far as elementals wanting to perserve themselves, eh I have no clue. There is a that other thread about the elementals awareness, but I'm going more on the basis that their elemental is a little spunky elemental and the bindig that was performed was not completely perfected yet. So it has a tendency to act up. I read in the preview for the Explorers handbook that a watership will cost you 18,000 gp for a Lyrandar sailing ship. So I thought for a run down small prototype airship it would cost the adventurers 20,000 gp. If I times it by a hundred that would be more expensive than a House Lyrander airship. :(
DoveArrow 07-07-05, 04:38 PM	There's a d20 supplement from Mongoose Publishing called Seas of Blood. I like this supplement a lot because it actually provides statistics for ships (like hit points and AC) that you can use when engaging in ship-to-ship combat. It doesn't talk about airships much (it gives an example of a spell that can make ships fly, and I think one example of a flying ship), but the rules are easily adaptable, and I've actually made air ships for another campaign of mine using these statistics (I don't remember the exact statistics that I came up with, so unfortunately I'm not much help there). If you get a chance, I highly recommend checking it out.
DragonWatcher 07-07-05, 05:03 PM	I was aware of the charisma check for changing direction, however I wanted something for combat since I don't want the pilot player to say "hey, I put it on auto pilot" or "I just let it go the same direction" and then fight as if they don't need to concertrate. I also want some type of consequences if they could not keep control of the airship. Since it was described in the book almost like a contest of wills, I thought if they couldn't keep their concertration they would have to try to regain control by rolling another charisma check. I can respect that you want to keep it interesting, but I would just be careful that you don't make it so interesting that it really hampers the characters in the game. After all, combat aboard an airship already has a lot of potential for a character to worry about. Such as: 1. If the pilot engages in combat, that leaves the wheel unmanned. It's certainly reasonable that anyone who boards the ship will try to gain control of the wheel. 2. Fighting high above the ground, characters will have to worry about being bullrushed over the side of the ship. 3. If you really want to make a combat interesting, just have it take place where there are obstacles (other airships, mountains, towers, etc) this way the pilot will be making near-constant Charisma checks. Also, think about it this way, if you were running a sea-faring campaign out in the open seas, there's no need for a pilot to be at the wheel every moment. They would just lash the wheel down so it couldn't turn freely and go about their business unless they had to navigate around obstacles. IMO, why should an airship be any different? I guess I'm just thinking that if during every combat aboard the ship, someone had to babysit the helm, that character would lose out on the fun of the combat. If he was in combat, but trying to concentrate the dice-rolling would get ridiculous (making even small combats take up the whole session), and/or they would quickly lose control of the ship. If you've already considered the aforementioned possibilities and have no problem with them, then go for it! :D It's your game, and if everyone's having fun, then you're running it right. I just wanted to make sure that you've considered the possible issues that might arise with you're ideas. Unless you really want flying the ship to be the central focus of your game, I would keep things more abstract and save the extra rolls for really dramatic moments. Then again... maybe that's just me. ;) Either way... good luck with the story. It sounds like it could be a great time.
joro 07-07-05, 06:33 PM	1. If the pilot engages in combat, that leaves the wheel unmanned. It's certainly reasonable that anyone who boards the ship will try to gain control of the wheel. 2. Fighting high above the ground, characters will have to worry about being bullrushed over the side of the ship. 3. If you really want to make a combat interesting, just have it take place where there are obstacles (other airships, mountains, towers, etc) this way the pilot will be making near-constant Charisma checks. Those are actually some excellent points that I am going to have to sit down and think hard about. I want to keep the game changllening but at the same time not hamper the gameplay. I'm sure exactly how often combat would happen anyways in the air but it is a possibility. Hmm, the obstacle idea might be an excellent idea to use instead. Thanks for the input. The next things that I am going to have to think about is the actual layout and size of the ship, said maintinance of the ship and realistically how they can get on and off the ship without being on port. Some people in the another thread mentioned a lift for the airship so that could be a possibility. Thanks, DoveArrow for the book recommendation -- I'm definately going to check it out. I'll keep everyone updated how it goes after the first game. I'm sure I'll need further suggestions. :D