Airships, and flying vehicles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Airships, and flying vehicles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
neo_ninja
03-12-06, 12:50 AM Hey Everyone.
I've been looking at Airships with a bit of anticipation, wanting to make a game. Just one thing: they are WAY too big!
So I want to make a smaller ship, one like a 30 foot elemental airship... and I want some advice/help. Also, the skycoaches and Soarsleds in Sharn... anyone have more information on them, like if they work out of Sharn? Or is it because of Sharn's manifest zone?

Please feel free to say what you think or your ideas!
cianshay
03-12-06, 03:04 PM Thirty feet is a bit short for an airship. For construction purposes, the elemental ring ends up being the most expensive part, and most people would then try to make the largest vessel that could possibly be propelled by the elemental bound within it. It just wouldn't be economically feasible to make an airship yacht with little room for more than perhaps 6 to 7 crew and passengers.

However, the rich and powerful often do odd things. If your adventuring band is wealthy enough, they might be able to spend alot of gold - and pull alot of strings - to get something like this done. I can also see some of the more wealthier nobles (especially in Aundair and Breeland) and the more favored House members of Cannith and Lyrander having fast transports and racing vessels of this type.

In our campaign we have introduced several classes of airships - with the larger Lyrander vessels mapped out in the books being the NEWEST models.

The oldest class of airship in our campaign are fairly unadorned, are layed out much more like sailing vessels (with forecastles and aftcastles) and average between 90 to 110 feet long - only 1/3 the size of the Lyrander behemoths. They are only marginally faster and more manueverable, and can occasionally be seen for sale (75-100 thousand gold).

The mid class of airship are a bit larger (160 to 200 feet long) and were built as warships in the middle decades of the Last War. They feature armored elemental rings, the first griffon stables and roosts, and often have a thin layer of alchemically hardened soarwood plating on the hull. Many of these vessels can be found in the service of the small sky navies of Aundair, Breeland and Zilargo - or as escort vessels for the new Lyrander passenger liners.

We postulated that the engineers and artificers became more technically adept at harnessing elementals in the last 100 years. So, in the early days, elemental rings were smaller and had less power, leading to smaller airships. This has given the players options other than the massive airship liners used by Lyrander in the books.

As far as crew is concerned, we thought about it for a while and came up with fairly small crew sizes. On airships, you don't have to worry about barnacles, bilge pumps, repairing sails, or extremely long journeys. While it may take a watercraft 6 months or more to travel from Sharn to Trollenport, an airship can make the journey in 2 to 3 weeks. Our 90 foot vessel has a crew of 7, including our captain. Remember, it doesn't take a dragonmarked half-elf to run an airship - the elemental can be coaxed with a simple charisma roll (and there is a feat somewhere that adds a +4 bonus to a non-dragonmarked pilot's roll).

Crews typically see airship duty as very good work. They get paid twice as much as sea crew, and they don't spend months at a time away from civilization. Most of the unpleasant aspects of sea duty are removed (spoiled rations, sea sickness, bilge pump duty). Our crew mans the rudders and fins (how the ship steers), cleans the ship, cooks meals and cleans dishes, makes small repairs when needed (larger repairs require soarwood and professional airship shipyards), mans the two dragunns (pintle mounted, elemental cannons) and helps with the loading and unloading of the occasional cargo.

We don't get much cargo. Look at the prices an airship charges per mile....

The only reason a merchant would want to use an airship would be speed. There aren't alot of perishables that are worth a silver piece a mile per ton to get from here to there. Most perishables are grown, gathered, butchered locally anyway. Our primary cargo is the personal possessions of our passengers. People would much rather spend the extra money to get from Sharn to Kaarnath in two weeks by airship, rather than risk a dangerous caravan.

Hope all of this helps.
Purple Yin
03-12-06, 06:11 PM little (nothing?) has been said about skycoaches, but its best to assume they only work because of the manifest zone. soarsleds are the same.

Why do you want a smaller ship, if you dont mind me asking?
neo_ninja
03-12-06, 07:43 PM Well I run a lot of games up at my college, and I am setting one up involving Airships. The thing is, we want an airship without the hassle of having about 30-100 people to run it. So, if we could create like a yacht style ship that had one pilot and like two or three passengers/other adventurers... it would let them cruise around Final Fantasy Style and still be on their own. It would kind of give a Firefly feel.
The 'older model' might be a cool idea. I was thinking they just harnessed a way to make a smaller elemental ring... and what the adventurers come across is a prototype that was secretly made... probably for a shady customer. So when the adventurers snag it, they can kind of escape with it because the houses can't really put out an all-bulletin on it.

It is a fun concept, and I love airships... I just want smaller ones. Any other ideas or comments?
Fabian
03-12-06, 09:03 PM I have used a similar concept in my PBEM and basically for the same reasons. I wanted the players to be able to ship around without needing a big old crew to deal with. I have a smaller ship (used the caravel plan from Stormwrack found here http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Storm_maps/StormW_map1.jpg).

Yes, I know that it has sails and doesn't show the elemental ring. But if my players can suspend belief and play elves, we can all suspend belief and say that the elemental ring is 'there'. :)

As for the sails, I have them being used to help the ship sail along. The ship is an experimental prototype being developed by House Lyrandar. The experimental part is that it's smaller than normal ships (also 50% faster) and may be piloted without making use of the Mark of Storms. It has a modified 'wheel' that allows the pilot a +5 on his charisma check and also allows a +1 per 5 ranks in Profession-Sailor. This makes it easier to handle thus not needing a Lyrandar pilot.

It's still experimental because House Lyrandar is still evaluating whether this is a good business move on their part. I wouldn't mind discussing how this would affect the Houses' business...

Please let us know what you come up with.

L8r,
neo_ninja
03-13-06, 10:19 AM Allright, I got something.
It was a joint effort, my two main players really helping finish off the dimensions and the inside.

Its a 40 by 16 foot ship powered by two medium fire elementals. Its an experimental prototype, an almost military prototype meant to be fast. The reason is because off the bottom of the ship on each side is a four foot strut. At the end of each is the arcane matrix of the fire elementals, the matrix shaped like a +. Each fire elemental is stored in the bottom of the ship in a sort of small crawlspace, and the left one goes to the left strut, right to the right. The reason for the + shape is because you can have the two elementals working independantly, giving the ability to pull off some fast turning and cool tricks (anyone seen the 'crazy ivan' of Firefly?).
I've got to run to class, but I'll elaborate more on the interior and other specs when I get back. Tell me what you think... I think its a really cool idea, and one that fits smaller ships.
Ehtiar
03-13-06, 11:50 AM From the way I read it, Skycoaches would basically be Flying Carpets.. (mechanically speaking) just with a different look.. and having the benefits of using the "Improved Flight Item" within the manifest zone.

And Soarsleds are given specific treatment under Magical Items in the back of the book . ie. a disk with the abilities of a fly spell within the manifest zone, but if taken outside the zone can only be used 3/day and is much slower.
Serow
03-23-06, 04:05 PM I find the idea of a flight ring around the ship is kind of bias. Could'nt you, in theory, have fire elemental bound rocks (about 2 feet in diamiter) in a canister (3 feet long, 2 feet diamiter, cap with swivel in center (like swirles on an ice cream cone))with water elemental bound plate on the bottom and clear 6,000 psi of steam pressure to "fly" a small sky ship (or a skife, boat, ect.) by placing two of them at a time, along side the boat? I really find it purly up to the pc's imagination to create prototype aireal vessels, thus defines what draws people to play D&D, stuff you can't do in real life, so use your mind, creativity, imagination, and anything else you can through your DM's way to anger and/or agrivate them to see things your way.
Knowledge of physics or sailing would have good synergy with the crafts to make them.
Purple Yin
03-23-06, 06:37 PM not sure if id let them 'know' about gasses expanding.. i think such knowledge would be obscured by the magic in their experiments.
Serow
03-24-06, 03:56 PM Then how about bound wind elementals in cannons. The wind produced, if used efficiently, would easily push sails, glide across water fronts ... Even make new weapons. Imagine three spinging long blade turbines. Far fetched and way off topic, but as many ideas I can pull up, not all of them could be push away, even for the most biased DM...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
neo_ninja 03-12-06, 12:50 AM	Hey Everyone. I've been looking at Airships with a bit of anticipation, wanting to make a game. Just one thing: they are WAY too big! So I want to make a smaller ship, one like a 30 foot elemental airship... and I want some advice/help. Also, the skycoaches and Soarsleds in Sharn... anyone have more information on them, like if they work out of Sharn? Or is it because of Sharn's manifest zone? Please feel free to say what you think or your ideas!
cianshay 03-12-06, 03:04 PM	Thirty feet is a bit short for an airship. For construction purposes, the elemental ring ends up being the most expensive part, and most people would then try to make the largest vessel that could possibly be propelled by the elemental bound within it. It just wouldn't be economically feasible to make an airship yacht with little room for more than perhaps 6 to 7 crew and passengers. However, the rich and powerful often do odd things. If your adventuring band is wealthy enough, they might be able to spend alot of gold - and pull alot of strings - to get something like this done. I can also see some of the more wealthier nobles (especially in Aundair and Breeland) and the more favored House members of Cannith and Lyrander having fast transports and racing vessels of this type. In our campaign we have introduced several classes of airships - with the larger Lyrander vessels mapped out in the books being the NEWEST models. The oldest class of airship in our campaign are fairly unadorned, are layed out much more like sailing vessels (with forecastles and aftcastles) and average between 90 to 110 feet long - only 1/3 the size of the Lyrander behemoths. They are only marginally faster and more manueverable, and can occasionally be seen for sale (75-100 thousand gold). The mid class of airship are a bit larger (160 to 200 feet long) and were built as warships in the middle decades of the Last War. They feature armored elemental rings, the first griffon stables and roosts, and often have a thin layer of alchemically hardened soarwood plating on the hull. Many of these vessels can be found in the service of the small sky navies of Aundair, Breeland and Zilargo - or as escort vessels for the new Lyrander passenger liners. We postulated that the engineers and artificers became more technically adept at harnessing elementals in the last 100 years. So, in the early days, elemental rings were smaller and had less power, leading to smaller airships. This has given the players options other than the massive airship liners used by Lyrander in the books. As far as crew is concerned, we thought about it for a while and came up with fairly small crew sizes. On airships, you don't have to worry about barnacles, bilge pumps, repairing sails, or extremely long journeys. While it may take a watercraft 6 months or more to travel from Sharn to Trollenport, an airship can make the journey in 2 to 3 weeks. Our 90 foot vessel has a crew of 7, including our captain. Remember, it doesn't take a dragonmarked half-elf to run an airship - the elemental can be coaxed with a simple charisma roll (and there is a feat somewhere that adds a +4 bonus to a non-dragonmarked pilot's roll). Crews typically see airship duty as very good work. They get paid twice as much as sea crew, and they don't spend months at a time away from civilization. Most of the unpleasant aspects of sea duty are removed (spoiled rations, sea sickness, bilge pump duty). Our crew mans the rudders and fins (how the ship steers), cleans the ship, cooks meals and cleans dishes, makes small repairs when needed (larger repairs require soarwood and professional airship shipyards), mans the two dragunns (pintle mounted, elemental cannons) and helps with the loading and unloading of the occasional cargo. We don't get much cargo. Look at the prices an airship charges per mile.... The only reason a merchant would want to use an airship would be speed. There aren't alot of perishables that are worth a silver piece a mile per ton to get from here to there. Most perishables are grown, gathered, butchered locally anyway. Our primary cargo is the personal possessions of our passengers. People would much rather spend the extra money to get from Sharn to Kaarnath in two weeks by airship, rather than risk a dangerous caravan. Hope all of this helps.
Purple Yin 03-12-06, 06:11 PM	little (nothing?) has been said about skycoaches, but its best to assume they only work because of the manifest zone. soarsleds are the same. Why do you want a smaller ship, if you dont mind me asking?
neo_ninja 03-12-06, 07:43 PM	Well I run a lot of games up at my college, and I am setting one up involving Airships. The thing is, we want an airship without the hassle of having about 30-100 people to run it. So, if we could create like a yacht style ship that had one pilot and like two or three passengers/other adventurers... it would let them cruise around Final Fantasy Style and still be on their own. It would kind of give a Firefly feel. The 'older model' might be a cool idea. I was thinking they just harnessed a way to make a smaller elemental ring... and what the adventurers come across is a prototype that was secretly made... probably for a shady customer. So when the adventurers snag it, they can kind of escape with it because the houses can't really put out an all-bulletin on it. It is a fun concept, and I love airships... I just want smaller ones. Any other ideas or comments?
Fabian 03-12-06, 09:03 PM	I have used a similar concept in my PBEM and basically for the same reasons. I wanted the players to be able to ship around without needing a big old crew to deal with. I have a smaller ship (used the caravel plan from Stormwrack found here http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Storm_maps/StormW_map1.jpg). Yes, I know that it has sails and doesn't show the elemental ring. But if my players can suspend belief and play elves, we can all suspend belief and say that the elemental ring is 'there'. :) As for the sails, I have them being used to help the ship sail along. The ship is an experimental prototype being developed by House Lyrandar. The experimental part is that it's smaller than normal ships (also 50% faster) and may be piloted without making use of the Mark of Storms. It has a modified 'wheel' that allows the pilot a +5 on his charisma check and also allows a +1 per 5 ranks in Profession-Sailor. This makes it easier to handle thus not needing a Lyrandar pilot. It's still experimental because House Lyrandar is still evaluating whether this is a good business move on their part. I wouldn't mind discussing how this would affect the Houses' business... Please let us know what you come up with. L8r,
neo_ninja 03-13-06, 10:19 AM	Allright, I got something. It was a joint effort, my two main players really helping finish off the dimensions and the inside. Its a 40 by 16 foot ship powered by two medium fire elementals. Its an experimental prototype, an almost military prototype meant to be fast. The reason is because off the bottom of the ship on each side is a four foot strut. At the end of each is the arcane matrix of the fire elementals, the matrix shaped like a +. Each fire elemental is stored in the bottom of the ship in a sort of small crawlspace, and the left one goes to the left strut, right to the right. The reason for the + shape is because you can have the two elementals working independantly, giving the ability to pull off some fast turning and cool tricks (anyone seen the 'crazy ivan' of Firefly?). I've got to run to class, but I'll elaborate more on the interior and other specs when I get back. Tell me what you think... I think its a really cool idea, and one that fits smaller ships.
Ehtiar 03-13-06, 11:50 AM	From the way I read it, Skycoaches would basically be Flying Carpets.. (mechanically speaking) just with a different look.. and having the benefits of using the "Improved Flight Item" within the manifest zone. And Soarsleds are given specific treatment under Magical Items in the back of the book . ie. a disk with the abilities of a fly spell within the manifest zone, but if taken outside the zone can only be used 3/day and is much slower.
Serow 03-23-06, 04:05 PM	I find the idea of a flight ring around the ship is kind of bias. Could'nt you, in theory, have fire elemental bound rocks (about 2 feet in diamiter) in a canister (3 feet long, 2 feet diamiter, cap with swivel in center (like swirles on an ice cream cone))with water elemental bound plate on the bottom and clear 6,000 psi of steam pressure to "fly" a small sky ship (or a skife, boat, ect.) by placing two of them at a time, along side the boat? I really find it purly up to the pc's imagination to create prototype aireal vessels, thus defines what draws people to play D&D, stuff you can't do in real life, so use your mind, creativity, imagination, and anything else you can through your DM's way to anger and/or agrivate them to see things your way. Knowledge of physics or sailing would have good synergy with the crafts to make them.
Purple Yin 03-23-06, 06:37 PM	not sure if id let them 'know' about gasses expanding.. i think such knowledge would be obscured by the magic in their experiments.
Serow 03-24-06, 03:56 PM	Then how about bound wind elementals in cannons. The wind produced, if used efficiently, would easily push sails, glide across water fronts ... Even make new weapons. Imagine three spinging long blade turbines. Far fetched and way off topic, but as many ideas I can pull up, not all of them could be push away, even for the most biased DM...