Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baron Stoonir Fel 03-03-05, 11:27 AM	I was flipping through the Eberron campaign setting and i came across the information on airships and i was astounded at how little that they had there to describe them considering their large ammount of use in the world. The most helpful information i could find was in the form of the included picture in the chapter. The reason i am asking is that in my current Eberron camapign the focus is on the skies and i am looking for more information to keep my campaign as realistic to the world as possible. But i am finding that i am lacking that sort of information. Which leaves me with questions...Are they basically flying boats with rings? What are they made out of? What do the interiors look like? How about weaponry? How do they dock with buildings? Air to air combat? etc... If anyone has any information that would be very helpful.
Altaris 03-03-05, 11:36 AM	Um, there is very little information because are there are very few airships. I believe there are only 20 or 30 in use, and they are very new to the world. Basically, they are sea-vessels with rings. They would, at this point, have almost the same designs for interiors and weaponry. They are about as common in Eberron as the TWO that were in FF-VII. That being said, an airship focused campaign is really cool. But you'll have to look to other settings for ideas on design and such. I believe the Kalamar setting has some good material.
RamblingScribe 03-03-05, 11:42 AM	Another good resource form another game is SPACE 1889. It was AFAIK the first Steampunk weird science rpg, with flying ships on Mars. Craig Shackleton The Rambling Scribe
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-03-05, 11:43 AM	I was flipping through the Eberron campaign setting and i came across the information on airships and i was astounded at how little that they had there to describe them considering their large ammount of use in the world. The most helpful information i could find was in the form of the included picture in the chapter. The reason i am asking is that in my current Eberron camapign the focus is on the skies and i am looking for more information to keep my campaign as realistic to the world as possible. But i am finding that i am lacking that sort of information. Which leaves me with questions...Are they basically flying boats with rings? What are they made out of? What do the interiors look like? How about weaponry? How do they dock with buildings? Air to air combat? etc... If anyone has any information that would be very helpful. Flying Boats, yes. Wings, no. Think about an old ship. Now take off the sails and add a giant elemental ring around the middle. Just like in the picture >)~ They're built out of Soarwood from Aerenal. It's an incredibly light-weight, yet sturdy wood that takes quite naturally to flight. Interior is just like that of a ship. Cramped, wooden, not likely to be very comfortable unless you're flying first class. Then, Lyrandar might be interested in giving over some of their cargo space for making you more comfortable. None of the airships have built in weaponry, YET. However, Lyrandar has been working on battle-ship models complete with catapults, ballistae, and even magical turrets that can fire fire-balls and lightning. Feel free to use any of these. Docking requires basically a dock (like for a boat) built off the side of a tower. The airship can't descend to ground level because it might damage the ring. The dock would have to be 4th story or higher. Now, that's not to say that the airship can't get really close to the ground ANYWHERE and allow you to rappel down with ropes and ladders. There might even be a lift/pulley/magical system for unloading cargo direct to the ground. Still, the airship docks are the easiest and most common option. It'd cost a LOT to get Lyrandar to let you off anywhere else. Air to air combat? Mostly relies on the abilities of those on the airship. Wizards and sorcerors often fly with the ship for protection. If two ships get close enough (or the ship gets next to a big flying "something else"), then melee classes might be able to vault over the rail to the opposing side. Of course, a lot of this changes if you happen to have a relatively influential member of House Lyrandar attatched to or a member of your party. Personally, I'd love to do a quest where I rescue some big important guy of House Lyrandar, and he, in return, provides me with the permanent services of a special, faster-moving airship. The captain and crew would fly with me and help out where they could. Of course, then Lyrandar would be likely to call on me for future missions...
Nasheen 03-03-05, 11:56 AM	I believe that the Explorer's Handbook will have more info on airships.
shadowpavement 03-03-05, 12:11 PM	I just saw a book from an indipendent D20 publisher that was totally about airships. I'll see if I can locate the online store I saw selling it.
Taurren 03-03-05, 12:20 PM	The book is called Airships, published by Bastion Press and written by Sam Witt. I like their take on these flying ships and was planning to use some of their idea's in my campaign. Power for their ships is not just provided by elemental means as in Eberron, but by necromantic, vampiric, and mundane sources such as wood and oil. Given the number of airtaxi's in Sharn and that there are even air-pirates flying across the skies of Eberron I always imagined that the number ships was greater than just a couple of dozen. Aside from the gnomes, who else would you feel had the knowledge and resources capable of making airships?
DarkerDreams 03-03-05, 12:39 PM	Certain published adventures have information on ebberonian airships and other vehicles. Don't want to spoil for any players though. I think nasheen is right about the explorer's handbook.
Alac Luin 03-03-05, 02:43 PM	For those intrested look in this thread... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=347529&highlight=Airship The first post contains a link to a fan created map of an airship. Very nicely done!!!!
Sarlax 03-03-05, 02:46 PM	Are they basically flying boats with rings? Yep. While there's no mechanical reason to design airships like ocean vessels, that doesn't matter. People design out of habit as much as necessity. Take bicycle seats, for example. They are modeled after horse saddles. Saddles make sense in that shape since it needs to sit over the horse. But a bike seat really out to be broader. Would you type at your computer in a chair built like a bike seat? In time, Cannith will probably work with more efficient designs. For the moment, though, naval philosophy reigns.
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-03-05, 03:46 PM	For those intrested look in this thread... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=347529&highlight=Airship The first post contains a link to a fan created map of an airship. Very nicely done!!!! VERY nice. I like it a lot. Personally, though, I kind of thought in a different direction. Why not have, attatched to a gate in the interior of the airship, a "pocket dimension" (i think that's the term)? Basically, have a couple of portals installed. One for crew quarters, one for passengers, one for any flying mounts, and one for cargo. A ship like that would obviously be TREMENDOUSLY expensive to build, but with massive cargo and luxurious passenger space, it could easily recoup its costs. Plus, passengers wouldn't be at all jarred by any movements of the airship. Goods could be stored cold or hot, as needed. In the event of a crash, simply make sure that House Lyrandar has in its possession some form of token, allowing them access to the dimension. That way, even if the gate is destroyed, the House could access the passengers and cargo, which would still be in pristine condition. Is this even possible? I'm sure I've overlooked something...
Sarlax 03-03-05, 04:02 PM	Basically, have a couple of portals installed. <SNIP> Is this even possible? I'm not sure what kind of portals you're referring to. The Forgotten Realms-style portals aren't found in Eberron (at least yet). The only way to make portals in Eberron is with Permanent Teleportation Circles (see the respective spells). Your broad point is correct; it would be enormously profitable to install such a portal on an airship. You'd get what amounts to a mobile merchant city - imagine linking Sharn to such a ship. The expense isn't really a factor; it will rapidly pay for itself. The problem is the availability of labor. Where will you find the 17th level wizard to build it? Vol herself is only 16th. Even if such a wizard exists, there's no guarentee that she'd be happy to commercialize her incredible arcane power. There are other concerns. Take a look at this House Orien Portal Network (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=372305) thread.
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-03-05, 04:09 PM	Your broad point is correct; it would be enormously profitable to install such a portal on an airship. You'd get what amounts to a mobile merchant city - imagine linking Sharn to such a ship. The expense isn't really a factor; it will rapidly pay for itself. The problem is the availability of labor. Where will you find the 17th level wizard to build it? Vol herself is only 16th. Even if such a wizard exists, there's no guarentee that she'd be happy to commercialize her incredible arcane power. Not portals, really. Openings into the minor dimensions. Like that Magnificent Mansion spell. Doesn't it open a small portal into a minor dimension? Something like that, only made permanent. And as far as labor goes, I like the ideas in this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=379403 I think that's a system that would work rather well.
Fordel 03-03-05, 04:17 PM	If your going to the massive expense of creating pocket dimensions on your airships, wouldn't your clients just be better served by magicing the distance instead? :p
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-03-05, 04:28 PM	If your going to the massive expense of creating pocket dimensions on your airships, wouldn't your clients just be better served by magicing the distance instead? :p Do YOU want to try teleporting several hundred tons of cargo? :P good luck, my friend. This way, it all gets there at once. How much weight are you allowed to carry with you per teleport? How many times could you teleport per day? It'd take an army of teleporters several days to move all that stuff. The airship could be fairly speedy, since it wouldn't be at all weighted down. And on top of that, you could fly the airship to a remote location unknown to teleporters and use the ship as a base-camp while you do whatever it is you want to do there with your hundreds of tons of cargo. as for the teleport gates and what-not, it doesn't concern me. Gates would be rare, since (as was pointed out in that thread up there ^ ) they would allow access between cities that were likely at war. Also, once you get all your stuff through the gate, you still have to move it to the precise location that you want it. Basically, you could probably teleport or gate your stuff to some city 50,000 miles away, but what do you do when you have to take it another 1000 miles beyond that? To a place no teleporter is familiar with and no gate has been erected?
Dragom 03-03-05, 05:41 PM	Such an Airship becomes a mobile base of opperations that has many similarities to home exept as follows... Item creation is limited to scrolls and potions. Actions directly related to the vessel are: 1: Ground Assault - Basically everyone jumps off and either feather falls, fly's or teleports down. Depending on class, abilities and items. 2: Light Air Defense - Defending the ship against flying individuals that have trouble quickly crashing your vessel. Boarders and flying arrow magnets. 3: Heavy Air Defense - Involves defending the ship against a single foe that can easily destroy the vessel. Dragons, high level wizards and other air ships fall into this catagory. Best strategy would be to keep the foe away. AKA intercept in the air. 4: Air Assault - Attacking another ship. Preferably away from your own ship. In all of this the Halfling off the Plains has a solid advantage with his familiarity with Glidewings even at low levels. Most other non-caster characters are forced to rely on arcane assistance.
Dragom 03-03-05, 05:49 PM	I have considered creating an air "super-dreadnaught" much like the Yamato or the Bismark from WW2. It was destroyed and crash landed no one knows where before it was able to effect the course of the war in any serious way. As is the manner of super-dreadnaughts. Now the PC's are given the quest of finding, requiring a lot of digging in libraries for scant sighting of the ship, and then retrieving some artifact from the ship. Perhaps a weapon, perhaps an item that allowed the unusually heavy ship (that may have been plated in iron... Not mithril... I'm never giving PC's that much mithril again) to fly in the first place. You know the usual.
Taurren 03-03-05, 06:14 PM	Dragom, that's a great idea for an adventure :thumbsup: Intrepid adventurers searching for the remains of a super-weapon which was created during the frenzied final days of the Last War, but was lost on its maiden voyage. Pitted against time and the machinations of ... (any one of a number of groups :plotting: ) ... can the heroes discover the clues and peirce the veil of secrecy and distrust that has kept this weapon a secret for years? Sorry about dragging this thread off topic. :bigeyes:
darkthought 03-03-05, 06:38 PM	Such an Airship becomes a mobile base of opperations that has many similarities to home exept as follows... Item creation is limited to scrolls and potions. Actions directly related to the vessel are: 1: Ground Assault - Basically everyone jumps off and either feather falls, fly's or teleports down. Depending on class, abilities and items. 2: Light Air Defense - Defending the ship against flying individuals that have trouble quickly crashing your vessel. Boarders and flying arrow magnets. 3: Heavy Air Defense - Involves defending the ship against a single foe that can easily destroy the vessel. Dragons, high level wizards and other air ships fall into this catagory. Best strategy would be to keep the foe away. AKA intercept in the air. 4: Air Assault - Attacking another ship. Preferably away from your own ship. In all of this the Halfling off the Plains has a solid advantage with his familiarity with Glidewings even at low levels. Most other non-caster characters are forced to rely on arcane assistance. Thrashk hired monstrous mercenaries would help here. Gargoyles and harpies. Halflings would have an advantage with their glidewings, but then so would the airborne guards of Sharn with thier Hippogriffs. Not to mention a Flying Broom or Flying Carpet. I could see a combat airship out of Aundair... the people who'd do airborne combat have those nifty brooms that aren't that big of a pain to make. Or they'd hire some trainers from Vadalis to care for the flying mounts, and then go at it that way.
Alac Luin 03-03-05, 06:56 PM	Why not have, attatched to a gate in the interior of the airship, a "pocket dimension" (i think that's the term)? <snip> Is this even possible? I'm sure I've overlooked something... Well, its not really possible. Magnificent Mansion creates a point in space. That point in space is stationary, so when the ship moves, it would move through that point in space. Leaving the opening in mid air. Same things as portals in the realms. They are stationary. I think the reasoning is, to return to a point from someplace different (including a pocket dimention), you need a fixed location, a moble object doesn't fit. Other considerations, Magnificent Mansion is a 7th level spell and gate is a 9th level spell. Gate would be required to have am opening to an extra dimentional area. So the high req wiz needed to make one just hasen't happened by to find a way to do it. :)
Sarlax 03-03-05, 08:10 PM	That point in space is stationary, so when the ship moves, it would move through that point in space. Leaving the opening in mid air. Same things as portals in the realms. They are stationary. I am almost certain I remember either a creation feat or a portal special quality that allowed portals to be mobile - the Perilous Gateway series (which is official, as it appears on the Wizards site) featured at least one such portal. It's the Pirate Escape Portal created by the Portal Master. Still, that's not Eberron. While you can't create a teleportation circle that always leads to a ship, you can do the reverse. It would still greatly increase the speed at which goods are transported.
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-04-05, 01:34 AM	Didn't I read somethign about Ring Gates? Little, portable critters that you could pack away, then get out and reach through to grab or attack something... make it bigger, like the size of a loading dock door. have it link to a secure warehouse somewhere... then, on one voyage, have the airship get raided from one of the portals. someone obviously found a way to break into the warehouses. Now, they've got all the passengers held hostage and all the cargo to sell. It's up to the PCs to not only stop them, but figure out HOW they got into the warehouses to begin with. hehehe... :smirk:
nyysjan 03-04-05, 02:05 AM	why not just stuff the hold full of bags of holding and portable holes :thinks:
Tanvalis 03-04-05, 02:06 AM	All this is cool, actually I'm playing a Lyrandar Heir right now so this DEFINATELY applies to me and the campaign I'm in. BUT does anyone know or have any stats for a Stormship? As in the ships that are present in the very begining of City of Towers? AND About how large would you say the Pride of Storms is? Would that be something about the size as the picture on page 125 of the ECS or is that a NORMAL sized ship?
Lokiyn 03-04-05, 10:40 AM	try the arms and equipment guide. Nondimentional trunks, and cloudkeels really increase the options. I want to make a Galleon (galley x4) with a cloudkeel and out fit that but at 120k for the ship, 200k for the keel, and 67k for wind favored sail (major) its not going to happen any time soon. ;(
Baron Stoonir Fel 03-04-05, 11:20 AM	Well i for one know that airships are quite populous in Eberron, heck i think you can view more than a dozen in a few pictures of Sharn alone. My question is if airships are a brand new invention in eberron, what shape would they be likly to take in the next few years? Would they become larger and more powerful ship looking things? Or would they develop more flight friendly shapes?
Okami 03-04-05, 11:40 AM	I think the big differentiation that must be made is what is and is not an airship. The Lyrandar craft are to the Sharn shuttles what an F-14 is to a hang glider. They both fly but one is far more rugged and advanced than the other in terms of distance and endurance of the craft. Speaking of weaponry.. does anyone remember in FF9 the scene where the airship shoots a Bomb (Fire Elemental) instead of a cannonball? I picture the Eberronian ballistics logic to follow that sort of thinking.
darkthought 03-04-05, 11:46 AM	I think the big differentiation that must be made is what is and is not an airship. The Lyrandar craft are to the Sharn shuttles what an F-14 is to a hang glider. They both fly but one is far more rugged and advanced than the other in terms of distance and endurance of the craft. Speaking of weaponry.. does anyone remember in FF9 the scene where the airship shoots a Bomb (Fire Elemental) instead of a cannonball? I picture the Eberronian ballistics logic to follow that sort of thinking. I agree. There are elementally bound airships that work just about anywhere in Eberron. Then there's the non-elemental flying ships that work in Sharn, and crash and burn everywhere else. I consider airships to be anything with the elemental binding and can fly. The others are just oddities of the manifest zone. :) OOOOoo... gnomish built fire elemental shooter thingie... joy!
Alac Luin 03-04-05, 02:47 PM	I am almost certain I remember either a creation feat or a portal special quality that allowed portals to be mobile - the Perilous Gateway series (which is official, as it appears on the Wizards site) featured at least one such portal. It's the Pirate Escape Portal created by the Portal Master. Still, that's not Eberron. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20020814x also note, http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20020807x These are not portals that lead to an extrdimentional space, they both have one point fixed on the material plane. My statement may not have been compleatly true, so I can take the correction. :) If you are going to use a telepotation circle, why would you even bother with a ship?
Cloud Divider 03-04-05, 03:32 PM	I have considered creating an air "super-dreadnaught" much like the Yamato or the Bismark from WW2. It was destroyed and crash landed no one knows where before it was able to effect the course of the war in any serious way. That's cool. I think I'll save the fully functional dreadnoughts for The Next War, in my Eberron. Airship technology is still relatively new, after all. That said...One of my first Eberron campaign ideas I had a half-formed was based around a proto-dreadnought being built. Essentially the Lyrandar wrights in Zilargo were going to launch the equivalent of an airship luxury liner (that was far larger than any airships to date), christened the Vandenberg (an OOC reference to both the Hindenburg and Vandenberg AFB where a lot of prototype aircraft testing occurs). The Vandenberg had a crew of about 40, with the capability to transport over 70 passengers in stately quarters, plus a spacious cargo hold. It's basically the Hindenburg... The maiden "goodwill" Voyage of the Vandenberg would have taken the ship on a tour (approx 6wk) tour across Khorvaire, stopping at the major cities (Sharn, Wroat, the other Five Nations' capitals; plus a final pass over Darguun). The initial invitation-only passenger list would be something like a Who's Who of Khorvaire (lots of wealth, politicos, and so on). However, the REAL purpose to the voyage was actually a Lyrandar show of force. It doesn't take a seasoned defense analyst to realize that a ship THAT big could be a potent weapon, and it wouldn't take much to refit the Vandenberg for war. And if Lyrandar could build one, they could build more... So while you've got the "glitterati" aboard (who'd make great kidnapping targets, you've got spies (trying to evaluate the Vandenberg's capabilities or even sabotage), assassins (trying to take out the politicos), and maybe even a terrorist team who'd try to capture the ship in transit or take hostages... So lots of neat potential, I think. And air pirates! Can't forget the air pirates! I thought it'd make for a pretty interesting campaign stretch, and it'd be fairly nontraditional to boot... I think I'll start seeding my current campaign with a Sharn Inquisitive minor headline about a "Colossal airship takes shape in Zilargo!" Maybe I'll bring it up eventually...if only as a sideline.
Lokiyn 03-04-05, 04:54 PM	heh ever seen a granery explode? lets take a full boat load of flour and drop it above sharn creating a large cloud of fine particulates. then lets fireball the middle. Buwahahahah....... wow i'm tired. Anyway prehaps you could have a ship from the ?skyrinia? whatever i don't have my books at the time. That used a souped up version of the orrey (the one that can make manifest zones) to maintain flight by creating its own pocket zone. make it big, make it Huge! take the equivalent of a Sharn tower on its side with four or five rings of fire encircleing the thing for propulsion.... and then put it in kyber for some unknown reason... heheh under sharn. anyone ever seen that old anime on sci fi channel with the huge ark built under a city? destroyed the whole city when it prematurely activated.
Baron Stoonir Fel 03-04-05, 05:56 PM	Well for the purpose of making my current campaign more air oriented i went ahead and instituted a few changes, tell me what you think. 1. If you can bind a fire elemenal of any size, why not a Tempest? So i went ahead and did so. What i found was that because of the nature of a tempest elemtal the ship would function something like one of the hovercraft from the Matrix universe. 2. Taking a page from an anime series called Last Exile i designed a template that can be used to create what i dubbed 'fast movers' a sort of primative fighter type airship modeled off of Last Exile van-ships and WWI by and tri planes. 3. Faster speeds. It is stated in the Eberron campaign setting that the average speed for an airship is something around 20 miles per hour. I found that this was fine for a very large airship, but unsatisfactory for something smaller, espicially the fast movers i designed. So i did some reworking and came up with a formula to account for elemnetal power vs. mass of the object it is propelling. And thus faster speed for smaller airships. The players love the campaign so far and i am enjoying the sucess of the decisions above as well.
darkthought 03-04-05, 09:10 PM	A really good idea! I'm thinking of giving my PCs a Reidran Inspired Patron. They wouldn't know what the Inspired are about, and the patron will be charming as all hell. Eventually they'll want to aquire a military-grade airship, all the better to get over the mountains that Adar is hiding in/behind. Of course along the way they'll be corrupted into becoming lackies and such... ah, the joy of mindseed when a PC totally screws up your patron's plan. ;)