Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neochronic 12-14-06, 01:04 AM	Hello, I posted this idea (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=751702) previously on the general D&D boards, but I wanted to get opinions on how well it would work in Eberron. Here's how it would work (slightly modifying makeshiftwings' description, since it's better then mine): Undead are treated as Evil. Deathless are treated as Good. Outsiders and other creatures with an alignment subtype are treated as that alignment. Clerics are treated as the alignment of their god. Paladins are treated as Lawful Good. Blackguards are treated as Evil. Anything else with a strong aura (such as an Incarnate or Soulborn) is treated as that alignment. Anything else is treated as True Neutral. You can meet any alignment requirement, as long as you're not of an opposed alignment. As with normal eberron, creatures of a particular alignment (other then true neutral) are inclined to act in certain ways, but you could have a creature act very unlike its alignment would suggest. Thoughts?
makeshiftwings 12-14-06, 03:45 AM	Well, I think it's a good idea ;)
Charles Phipps 12-14-06, 04:01 AM	I never believed Deathless were particularly good. I always felt that they were alien entities that were incredibly full of themselves and just extremely powerful.
Neochronic 12-14-06, 04:41 AM	*Waves at Makeshiftwings* Charles, I fully agree. In this system, deathless wouldn't nessecerly be good, but since they're so charged with positive energy, they would be treated as good for detection spells, Smite Good abilities, etc.
Charles Phipps 12-14-06, 05:29 AM	While it's a fine distinction to make, I tend to think that opens something of a can of worms. I suppose if you want to go that way then you can but I'm inclined to have undead register by alignment before I'd have positive register as good. Otherwise, you have Imhotep from the Mummy registering as good. An alternative might be that Negative Energy Undead register as evil but Positive Material Energy beings register just like any other mortal (after all, the Deathless are just filled with positive energy in the same way human beings are). In other words, they register as Neutral.
makeshiftwings 12-14-06, 05:46 AM	While it's a fine distinction to make, I tend to think that opens something of a can of worms. I suppose if you want to go that way then you can but I'm inclined to have undead register by alignment before I'd have positive register as good. Otherwise, you have Imhotep from the Mummy registering as good. An alternative might be that Negative Energy Undead register as evil but Positive Material Energy beings register just like any other mortal (after all, the Deathless are just filled with positive energy in the same way human beings are). In other words, they register as Neutral. I'm pretty sure in their original write-up in Book of Exalted Deeds, Deathless were "Always Good", the same way all undead are "Always Evil". In Eberron, the Undying Council deathless are "Usually Good", but that's probably because in Eberron they try to avoid using the "Always", and recommend changing the "Always" to "Usually" on most core creatures. I don't see the problem with Deathless registering as good, even if they can be evil. It's the same as a vampire always registering as evil, even if he is good. Mostly it just has to do with which spell version you need to cast to affect them.
Charles Phipps 12-14-06, 06:00 AM	Mostly, it's just my take that any nearly omnipotent quasi-undead things registering as good sort of sets me on edge. I never much cared for the Exalted version either. This is just a personal preference.
Neochronic 12-14-06, 01:55 PM	I don't see deathless as being animated by positive energy "in the same way human beings are". I see living creatures as being animated by their own power, a neutral energy if you will, which positive energy will help heal. Undead and deathless are animated directly by negative/positive energy, so they're so infused with so much energy that it shows up to alignment detecting spells. Similarly, a cleric without a god would show up as good if they channel positive energy, and evil if they channel negative energy. (also, a godless cleric with any alignment domain would count as that alignment, so one with the evil domain wouldn't be able to channel positive energy) _____________________________ One other effect out of this is that since most people trust that alignment detecting spells show the creature's actual alignment (like it does in normal eberron), deathless seem to be "good", even when they're very very evil. I like the idea that people think deathless are good, while they could actually be a major villain.
makeshiftwings 12-14-06, 10:59 PM	Mostly, it's just my take that any nearly omnipotent quasi-undead things registering as good sort of sets me on edge. I never much cared for the Exalted version either. This is just a personal preference. Well, the standard rules also have them registering as good. I don't think it's really that much weirder than a gigantic 9' tall blue thing with wings, the firepower of a nuclear arsenal, surrounded by floating swords and carrying a bow that turns anything it touches into an arrow of instant death being "the embodiment of all that is good".