Alternate Alignment Systems in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate Alignment Systems in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pilias_simber
10-06-05, 02:45 AM I am thinking about running an Eberron Campaign using The Relative Approach Variant found in the Book of Vile Darkness on page 6.

I think that Eberron is particularly well suited for this because of its more lax outlook on the Alignments of races and the smaller amount of involvement of the gods in religion.

Instead of taking up the suggestion in the book that you get rid of spell slike detect evil and so forth I am going to make these spells based on the personal beliefs of the person casting the spell.

Has anyone tried this system out in Eberron and does anyone have any suggestions for running a system like this in the campaign setting?
Charles Phipps
10-06-05, 03:18 AM Part of the inspiration for my "There's only evil gods" campaign (see the thread) was a new alignment system. It's based on the Powers Check System of Ravenloft.

Basically, I eliminated Law and Chaos as part of the alignment and instead focused on one's inclinations towards good and evil solely.

The Way of the Seven Deadly Virtues

Eberron is not like other worlds. Eberron is a world that has been deeply infected by the demonic wrath of the Rajahs and their increasing awakening is resulted in the actions of the individuals reflecting on their bodies what is inside their heart. While most individuals might see these things as curses, they are more curses to the individuals around them since the stripping of humanity results in individuals becoming more and more capable of doing evil.

A Normal State of Grace

This reflects the souls of individuals whom are not going to draw the attention of the Rajahs with their activities. The majority of individuals in Eberron are the first four kinds of individuals rather than those latter whom are most likely going to be so afflicted. The fifth type is afflicted on a case by case basis. The exception to this rule are those of exceptional virtue or exceptional will who may be afflicted even if they have not done actions so worthwhile as to be punished with the 'Mark of the Seven Deadly Virtues.'

The Seven Sinful Paths to Heaven (it's a horror game recall?)

Innocents- Innocents are individuals whom are beyond the ways of good and evil. Essentially the are people whom have never been seriously challenged morally and have not yet made a concrete stand for good and evil. Innocents tend to be individuals whom think the best of other people and see others as friends rather than enemies, so they are often mistaken for 'Righteous' but this is not the case. That requires someone to consciously choose against considerable temptation. Children, the Sheltered, the Mentally Challenged, and some variants of the insane are innocents.

Righteous- Righteous individuals are those whom chose to take a conscious stance against the suffering of their fellow beings and work towards their betterment. Righteous individuals only have to deliberately intend to make the world a better place rather than have their actions effect such (but this is not to be confused with the Tyrannical). They must also be recantant of when they falter in their activities and strive to do better. Ways of being righteous vary tremendously in their views.

Paladins must have the righteous alignment.

Benevolent- Less than righteous is the individuals whom take life less as a constant struggle to do good but are more or less genuinely good dispositioned towards their fellow man. The Benevolent do not worry about sin largely or honorable codes but instead focus on their own lives but often go out of their way to do what is right when they have incidents of good come across their way.

The Kinfolk- Named so, the Kinfolk are those whom tend to care for their families, friends, and self above all other concerns. Kinfolk will not risk their livelihoods or home for strangers or particularly concern themselves with attitudes beyond their normal worldly lives. Kinfolk tend to cooperate with authorities both good and evil to protect those that care for them and vice versa. They rarely make stands as well lest they endanger said.

The Selfish- The Selfish are individuals whom are self-absorbed but not actively maleovolent and nearly always look out for themselves. They may care for another as to how it benefits them but quickly tire of those whom do not. The Selfish can likely be intimidated into actions that are harmful to others or bribed but wish largely no ill but what will benefit them. Many selfish border the barrier to the Malevolent in their pursuit of gain.

The Tyrannical- The Tyrannical embrace an idealogy that deliberately sets itself at odds with the interests of an immediate large number of indviduals. These idealogies are often mirror images or distorted reflections of the Righteous but instead of the Righteous whom are largely concerned with how they themselves can benefit the world, the Tyrannical are far more concerned about how others must be changed to fit their own vision. Tyrants often believe their activities are either justified, deserved, or simply overruling the interests of others.

The Malevolent- The Malevolent go one step further than the Tyrants or the Selfish and deliberately set out to do harm to other people for it's own sake in addition to their own pursuit of wealth or power. The Malevolent are often driven by hatred for a thing such as women, a member of a distinct ethnicity, and sometimes even themselves in their activities. It is not enough they gain wealth or power but they must use this to the destruction of some group of their fellow man.

The Curses

These are pretty much identical to the ones in the Ravenloft Second Edition handbook.
makeshiftwings
10-06-05, 12:29 PM I don't remember the BoVD section, but the way I run alignment is that for most people, it doesn't exist; all normal people and creatures detect/are affected as if they are neutral. Only things that get special entries in Detect Evil and a few other things are actually affected by alignment: Undead, Demons, Angels, high level clerics/paladins, certain magic items, etc. They all mechanically have their listed alignment even though they don't necessarily have to act that way at all, ie, a good vampire still is affected by Smite Evil. This way, characters with those abilities still get some use out of them; it's better than just ditching all of them completely.
pilias_simber
10-06-05, 01:32 PM One of the purposes I am choosing to do the alternate alignment system is because right now half the party has no defined set of beliefs, mostly, I think, because those people are fairly new to Eberron, I have been putting out some little flyers and so forth that skim important topics and introduce them to the world without reading the books, as I am the resident scholar that owns/reads all the D&D books (only missing 4 right now including adventures)

I want everyone to think more about how their characters would act in situations and what it is that they believe because it will improve their RPing with the character.

Also we have an exalted character in the group and as he is the only Lawful person in the group as well I am trying to give him a little break so hes not constantly worrying when the predominantly CN group does questionable stuff, it should hopefully enhance the group cohesion there, though I don't want to completely remove the tension, as they are fairly conflicting alignments (LG (exalted) and CN)
makeshiftwings
10-06-05, 01:38 PM Also we have an exalted character in the group and as he is the only Lawful person in the group as well I am trying to give him a little break so hes not constantly worrying when the predominantly CN group does questionable stuff, it should hopefully enhance the group cohesion there, though I don't want to completely remove the tension, as they are fairly conflicting alignments (LG (exalted) and CN)

Well, personally I don't allow any Exalted stuff, because I think it's all pretty broken. Even if you don't agree, a lot of the uber powers you get from being exalted are supposed to be "balanced" by the fact that you have to be "good" all the time, and that the DM can smite you down for not agreeing with him on what "good" means. If you're playing without strict alignment, then letting people take exalted feats can be a little overpowering, since there's no downside anymore.
pilias_simber
10-06-05, 03:34 PM I am requiring every character to have well defined systems of belief, especially the exalted character. He is still restricted by those beliefs in what he is free to do, and with the freedom the other people in the group will have in their actions this will make the difference even more apparent than usual. The only difference is that this will allow him to get along with certain other members of the group better.

As the campaign is an intrigue based game rather than hack and slash the benefits of most of the Exalted abilities are not as huge as they are in more combat oriented games anyways.
AlDaRoN Arg
10-06-05, 03:54 PM Normal people are good, neutral and evil why make them all neutral? The paladin in my game can detect evil, and if he do it in a tavern in Sharn he would detect a lot a evil people but he won't start killing them. A paladin can't kill people just becouse they are evil.

And why eliminate detect evil? It makes your paladin useless.
Modenstein
10-06-05, 09:25 PM If I was so inclined, I would try adapting the piety system from Green Ronin's "Testament" game since I liked how the approach worked in that system. Essentially you set up a list of "sins" that lower piety for each specific religion/culture along with a list of "redeeming virtues" by which one can raise piety. So in effect you have a system measuring how closely a character adheres to the ideals/dogma of his particular religion. I haven't actually tried it though, so no specific ideas...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pilias_simber 10-06-05, 02:45 AM	I am thinking about running an Eberron Campaign using The Relative Approach Variant found in the Book of Vile Darkness on page 6. I think that Eberron is particularly well suited for this because of its more lax outlook on the Alignments of races and the smaller amount of involvement of the gods in religion. Instead of taking up the suggestion in the book that you get rid of spell slike detect evil and so forth I am going to make these spells based on the personal beliefs of the person casting the spell. Has anyone tried this system out in Eberron and does anyone have any suggestions for running a system like this in the campaign setting?
Charles Phipps 10-06-05, 03:18 AM	Part of the inspiration for my "There's only evil gods" campaign (see the thread) was a new alignment system. It's based on the Powers Check System of Ravenloft. Basically, I eliminated Law and Chaos as part of the alignment and instead focused on one's inclinations towards good and evil solely. The Way of the Seven Deadly Virtues Eberron is not like other worlds. Eberron is a world that has been deeply infected by the demonic wrath of the Rajahs and their increasing awakening is resulted in the actions of the individuals reflecting on their bodies what is inside their heart. While most individuals might see these things as curses, they are more curses to the individuals around them since the stripping of humanity results in individuals becoming more and more capable of doing evil. A Normal State of Grace This reflects the souls of individuals whom are not going to draw the attention of the Rajahs with their activities. The majority of individuals in Eberron are the first four kinds of individuals rather than those latter whom are most likely going to be so afflicted. The fifth type is afflicted on a case by case basis. The exception to this rule are those of exceptional virtue or exceptional will who may be afflicted even if they have not done actions so worthwhile as to be punished with the 'Mark of the Seven Deadly Virtues.' The Seven Sinful Paths to Heaven (it's a horror game recall?) Innocents- Innocents are individuals whom are beyond the ways of good and evil. Essentially the are people whom have never been seriously challenged morally and have not yet made a concrete stand for good and evil. Innocents tend to be individuals whom think the best of other people and see others as friends rather than enemies, so they are often mistaken for 'Righteous' but this is not the case. That requires someone to consciously choose against considerable temptation. Children, the Sheltered, the Mentally Challenged, and some variants of the insane are innocents. Righteous- Righteous individuals are those whom chose to take a conscious stance against the suffering of their fellow beings and work towards their betterment. Righteous individuals only have to deliberately intend to make the world a better place rather than have their actions effect such (but this is not to be confused with the Tyrannical). They must also be recantant of when they falter in their activities and strive to do better. Ways of being righteous vary tremendously in their views. Paladins must have the righteous alignment. Benevolent- Less than righteous is the individuals whom take life less as a constant struggle to do good but are more or less genuinely good dispositioned towards their fellow man. The Benevolent do not worry about sin largely or honorable codes but instead focus on their own lives but often go out of their way to do what is right when they have incidents of good come across their way. The Kinfolk- Named so, the Kinfolk are those whom tend to care for their families, friends, and self above all other concerns. Kinfolk will not risk their livelihoods or home for strangers or particularly concern themselves with attitudes beyond their normal worldly lives. Kinfolk tend to cooperate with authorities both good and evil to protect those that care for them and vice versa. They rarely make stands as well lest they endanger said. The Selfish- The Selfish are individuals whom are self-absorbed but not actively maleovolent and nearly always look out for themselves. They may care for another as to how it benefits them but quickly tire of those whom do not. The Selfish can likely be intimidated into actions that are harmful to others or bribed but wish largely no ill but what will benefit them. Many selfish border the barrier to the Malevolent in their pursuit of gain. The Tyrannical- The Tyrannical embrace an idealogy that deliberately sets itself at odds with the interests of an immediate large number of indviduals. These idealogies are often mirror images or distorted reflections of the Righteous but instead of the Righteous whom are largely concerned with how they themselves can benefit the world, the Tyrannical are far more concerned about how others must be changed to fit their own vision. Tyrants often believe their activities are either justified, deserved, or simply overruling the interests of others. The Malevolent- The Malevolent go one step further than the Tyrants or the Selfish and deliberately set out to do harm to other people for it's own sake in addition to their own pursuit of wealth or power. The Malevolent are often driven by hatred for a thing such as women, a member of a distinct ethnicity, and sometimes even themselves in their activities. It is not enough they gain wealth or power but they must use this to the destruction of some group of their fellow man. The Curses These are pretty much identical to the ones in the Ravenloft Second Edition handbook.
makeshiftwings 10-06-05, 12:29 PM	I don't remember the BoVD section, but the way I run alignment is that for most people, it doesn't exist; all normal people and creatures detect/are affected as if they are neutral. Only things that get special entries in Detect Evil and a few other things are actually affected by alignment: Undead, Demons, Angels, high level clerics/paladins, certain magic items, etc. They all mechanically have their listed alignment even though they don't necessarily have to act that way at all, ie, a good vampire still is affected by Smite Evil. This way, characters with those abilities still get some use out of them; it's better than just ditching all of them completely.
pilias_simber 10-06-05, 01:32 PM	One of the purposes I am choosing to do the alternate alignment system is because right now half the party has no defined set of beliefs, mostly, I think, because those people are fairly new to Eberron, I have been putting out some little flyers and so forth that skim important topics and introduce them to the world without reading the books, as I am the resident scholar that owns/reads all the D&D books (only missing 4 right now including adventures) I want everyone to think more about how their characters would act in situations and what it is that they believe because it will improve their RPing with the character. Also we have an exalted character in the group and as he is the only Lawful person in the group as well I am trying to give him a little break so hes not constantly worrying when the predominantly CN group does questionable stuff, it should hopefully enhance the group cohesion there, though I don't want to completely remove the tension, as they are fairly conflicting alignments (LG (exalted) and CN)
makeshiftwings 10-06-05, 01:38 PM	Also we have an exalted character in the group and as he is the only Lawful person in the group as well I am trying to give him a little break so hes not constantly worrying when the predominantly CN group does questionable stuff, it should hopefully enhance the group cohesion there, though I don't want to completely remove the tension, as they are fairly conflicting alignments (LG (exalted) and CN) Well, personally I don't allow any Exalted stuff, because I think it's all pretty broken. Even if you don't agree, a lot of the uber powers you get from being exalted are supposed to be "balanced" by the fact that you have to be "good" all the time, and that the DM can smite you down for not agreeing with him on what "good" means. If you're playing without strict alignment, then letting people take exalted feats can be a little overpowering, since there's no downside anymore.
pilias_simber 10-06-05, 03:34 PM	I am requiring every character to have well defined systems of belief, especially the exalted character. He is still restricted by those beliefs in what he is free to do, and with the freedom the other people in the group will have in their actions this will make the difference even more apparent than usual. The only difference is that this will allow him to get along with certain other members of the group better. As the campaign is an intrigue based game rather than hack and slash the benefits of most of the Exalted abilities are not as huge as they are in more combat oriented games anyways.
AlDaRoN Arg 10-06-05, 03:54 PM	Normal people are good, neutral and evil why make them all neutral? The paladin in my game can detect evil, and if he do it in a tavern in Sharn he would detect a lot a evil people but he won't start killing them. A paladin can't kill people just becouse they are evil. And why eliminate detect evil? It makes your paladin useless.
Modenstein 10-06-05, 09:25 PM	If I was so inclined, I would try adapting the piety system from Green Ronin's "Testament" game since I liked how the approach worked in that system. Essentially you set up a list of "sins" that lower piety for each specific religion/culture along with a list of "redeeming virtues" by which one can raise piety. So in effect you have a system measuring how closely a character adheres to the ideals/dogma of his particular religion. I haven't actually tried it though, so no specific ideas...