Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Doctor X 02-21-05, 12:24 AM	I'm getting ready to start up a new Eberron campaign, starting at 3rd level, and most of it will take place in Sharn. One of my players has never tried a psionic character before... and because the world provides for it with Sarlona and the Kalashtar, I didn't have any problems with it at all, at first. I let him look through the Expanded Psionics Handbook... and allowed him to consider almost anything as an option. However... I have mixed feelings about Psionics myself. The EPH seems to be composed of two different kinds of material-- cool stuff, and goofy stuff that seems inspired by Dragonball Z. I definitely wouldn't want at least half the crap in that book to be included in my campaigns, but I didn't limit my player's options, because I trusted that he would know the feel of the setting, and understand what works and what doesn't work... Now, he seems set on the idea of a Kalashtar psychic warrior who uses the power "Expansion," when he fights. The problem is... this is one of the DBZ-style things that I just don't like. Instead of "I cloud your mind and make you forget that I was ever here," or "I fight with a blade of raw energy distilled from my soul," it's "I inflate to the size of an elephant and stomp on you." Eberron was inspired by a distinct archetype of heroes... and I just don't think this character fits in with that archetype. The Expansion power is just too goofy... not to mention how cumbersome it would be to use in a place like Sharn, where bridges are often less than 10 feet wide, and cielings lower than 10 feet can't be too uncommon. All in all, it just doesn't feel right to me... and considering the Expanded Psionics Handbooks is basically one giant variant rule, I don't feel like it's something I should necessarily be allowing in my campaign. I hate restricting my players too much, so I've been trying to talk him out of it as opposed to simply saying, "No." However, the more I discuss it with him, the more I feel like a jerk for telling him what he can and can't do with his character. I need some advice from other Eberron fans... Do you guys think I'm wrong in saying that this character just doesn't fit the feel of the setting? Am I being a unfair to this player? Oh, and just in case...To the guy making this characer: I don't know if you read these boards or not, but if you do come across this post, I hope you understand that I mean no offense to you as a player. It's an interesting character... but I just don't feel like it fits. If you have any problems, come talk to me... I don't want to start an arguement over this. I just want the game to stay true to the setting, and I want everyone to enjoy the campaign as much as possible... and I'm fairly sure that your Psychic Warrior would bother the crap out of at least two other players in the party-- one of which being a purist who's obviously not a big fan of psionics, the other being someone who worries nearly as much about Eberron's portrayal as I do.
Vharuck 02-21-05, 12:40 AM	I say let him go with it. Eberron style is a play-style and atmosphere, not the characters and their powers. I would never stand between a player and his power choice except for two things: it was broken, or it was completely unacceptable in the world.
Salla 02-21-05, 12:54 AM	The Expansion power's been around in D&D since 1st Edition, long before Japanese entertainment became unavoidable in the US. Psionics isn't just 'mentalism'; it's using mental energy to affect the physical world as well, everything from space and time to one's own body ... your own force of will altering reality. The psychic warrior, especially, is heavy on Psychometabolism. Would you prohibit a fighter/wizard from casting Enlarge Person on himself? It's basically the same thing from a balance standpoint.
Dagda Mor 02-21-05, 01:01 AM	Also, consider the big hulking bruiser-type that shows up in pulp and the like. I can appreciate your concerns, and you're raising a good point. Have you tried talking to the player and explaining your point of view? Ask him to create a character that can fit this sort of feel; maybe he can do it with his existing character, maybe he'll switch to another. You may have to weigh the fun this player will have with his character against the fun that comes from preserving the feel of a game. You may have already done some or all of this, but I just wanted to bring it up.
Doctor X 02-21-05, 01:05 AM	The Expansion power's been around in D&D since 1st Edition, long before Japanese entertainment became unavoidable in the US. Psionics isn't just 'mentalism'; it's using mental energy to affect the physical world as well, everything from space and time to one's own body ... your own force of will altering reality. The psychic warrior, especially, is heavy on Psychometabolism. Would you prohibit a fighter/wizard from casting Enlarge Person on himself? It's basically the same thing from a balance standpoint. Well... it isn't really about balance. The psychic warrior class is allowed a fairly limited number of powers known, and unlike Fighter/Wizard, they don't have many ways to attack aside from their melee skills, so they'll rely a little more on buffs... which means you'll see it happen a whole lot more often. It's fairly clear that he will be favoring Expansion. He's even building his character's reputation and background around it... The guy is 6' 2" unexpanded, and there are stories of him knocking down large groups of men with single axe blows. These stories are very Eberron-style, I must say, but the way he fights doesn't feel quite right to me... But, I understand where you guys are coming from. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I should probably just shut up and let him do it. Maybe I'm just worrying a little too much...
talion09 02-21-05, 01:52 AM	I'd say let him go for it. You already noted the potential problems inherent in Sharn's design/layout in regards to his size. ie. narrow skybridges, low ceilings, the cogs, etc... And don't be afraid to send other large sized opponent's after him, especially if he has a reputation and has made some enemies.I always thought enlarge was the coolest buffing spell for low levels, for style anyways, and eberron is all about style, right? Afterall, in a "magic as technology" setting like eberron, there must be some type of continual effect magic item that uses the first level enlarge spell. Off the top of my head, that would only cost around 3 or 4 thousand GP to create, and a fairly low level artificer or spellcaster with creation feats could whip it up easily. He starts creating too much havok running around enlarged? Send a couple of enlarged warforged after him. Or if he starts getting a reputation for being a kalashtar hero flagrantly using his psionic powers, then send the dreaming dark after him. Or their corrupted-Deneith minions... In any case, I think a guy being able to grow in size to kick ass does fit eberron's style.... at least my conception of eberron anyways, its your campaign. But from a balance standpoint, it is hardly broken, and there are numerous ways in which to counteract it.
Doctor X 02-21-05, 02:04 AM	Cool. I've just talked to him about it, and decided that I was just worrying too much. It fits in just fine, now that I think about it. Much of the style comes from the defiance of stereotypes, really... People reading the Kalashtar racial description probably think "These guys are weiners... they probably all hide behind the Shifters and throw crystal shards." But then, you have 6' 2'' Psychic Warrior with 18 Strength... and he has a reputation of asskickery in his wake. Also, the idea of martially-alligned kalashtar intrigues me... After all, the entire race shares the subtle influence of a few separate Quori spirits. Maybe the one he shares with his forefathers was inclined to dreams of honor and glory in combat...
Gurv 02-21-05, 11:26 AM	Psionic expansion is pretty much the same as magical enlargement. Psionics is just a 3rd type of magic, with a different approach and flavor. There are only a few things that it can do that magic cannot, and vice versa. IMO, it is actually nice because it comes with some flavor, compared to the relatively bland flavor of D&D magic. Psionics is not about pure mentalism anymore, its about mind over matter, mind over mind, and about controlling reality by force of will. Given the darker place in has in Eberron, as a force from beyond our own dreams, it fits in pretty good. That said, and hoping that you reconsider, I would advise not to let anything into your game that you don't like. If you don't like the feel of psionics, that’s fine, because there are plenty of things I don't like either and I keep them out of my game. If you do decide to limit psionics, make sure everyone is clear on what limits you are setting. Its only unfair if someone is already enjoying a character and then discovers that he can't take any of the best choices after he has already sunk time and effort into it. I would advise you to flip through the book, and pick out the things you want to get rid of, with an eye to prestige classes and new races. Those are the ones that take some thinking to fit into a new setting. The psionic powers are pretty much similar to spells and although the feats are pretty unique, they're balanced pretty well too. If you haven't seen it before, this LINK (http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/conversions-xph.html) goes to the psionics conversions page of Jhonen Olian's Eberron Journal. It has some cool ways of fitting almost anything into Eberron.
ImmortalBlueMage 02-21-05, 02:40 PM	I grow very weary of the constant "This isn't real D&D flavor" attitude that gets thrown around a lot, often with specific note of anime or video game RPGS (or both). People seem increasingly paranoid that "real" D&D is dying out, to the point that they see anime boogymen lurking in every sourcebook (anime boogymen are of course particularly adept at lurking, because they are the seven sons of the great demon dragon Ghoro-shu, gifted with seven magical seals that make them unseen to the human eye, and they ruthlessly hunt their cyborg brethren through 3.x soucrebooks everywhere).
Edymnion 02-21-05, 03:27 PM	Agreed. Psionics are neither science fictiony-y nor out of place in any setting, IMO. It is simply the third school of magic. We have arcane magic, which is the manipulation of the magical energies present in the world. We have divine magic, which is the manipulation of the magical energies of the gods. And we have psionic magic, which is the manipulation of the magical energies inside your own mind. Arcane magic has a focus in spell components and arcane formulas. Divine magic has a focus in, literally, their Divine Focus and their gods. Psionic magic has a focus on crystals and the astral plane. And really, think back, and how much of the history of magic actually features the uses of crystals in a strong manner? Heck, we have birthstones because those particular gems were thought to convey special magical protection to those types of people. Final Fantasy 7 was ENTIRELY about crystals. Eberron itself is built around crystal magic with the Dragonshards.
MonkeyPaladin 02-21-05, 04:06 PM	Well, sounds like it's settled then. It's nice to hear a PC use a power as a roleplaying hook and a reputation kind of thing rather than just one more on the list. I'm glad he got over his initial bias and gave the guy the benefit or the doubt.
Alac Luin 02-21-05, 07:11 PM	Expansion and Enlarge Person are in basic traits, exactly the same. (as previously mentioned) What’s the difference between a psychic warrior using this, or a cleric with the Strength domain? Too much like DBZ? How about like the hulk? Next thing you know, a reported from the Sharn Inquisitive will be following this guy around. "Don't make me angry Mr. ir'Gree, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry"
Androlphas 02-21-05, 08:38 PM	My vote is to let him do it. However, take this into account: Kalashtar are not ones to attract a lot of attention. If his character starts using powers like Expansion to make a big spectacle of himself (no pun intended), he could end up attracting the attention of some interesting individuals (i.e.The Inspired). Make sure your player is aware of this.
Doctor X 02-21-05, 11:16 PM	My vote is to let him do it. However, take this into account: Kalashtar are not ones to attract a lot of attention. If his character starts using powers like Expansion to make a big spectacle of himself (no pun intended), he could end up attracting the attention of some interesting individuals (i.e.The Inspired). Make sure your player is aware of this. Oh, he is... His character, however, is fresh off the boat from Adar. He probably hasn't yet learned how much more dangerous the world is for him outside of his race's sanctuary. If he thinks the Inspired are just going to ignore him, he's dead wrong. :plotting:
Gurv 02-21-05, 11:28 PM	I'm DMing a character from Adar as well, a soulknife. He is well aware of the dangers of the Inspired and fustrated as heck that no one takes it seriously. The fact that he caused some trouble back in the Old World (disrupted an Inspired infiltration of a kalashtar enclave) means that he's on their short list of people who need to be dealt with.
Solidcobra 02-22-05, 10:11 AM	Solution to all psionic problems... Banninate. >_> Yeah, psionics are part of Eberron. Mhmm. no you can't play an inspired, a kalashtar, a psion, a psionic warrior, a wilder OR someone with the wild talent feat. In my games, psionics means "that thing used by aboleths and mindflayers" And, guess what? I don't have any psionic Player problems. :P
philopharynx 02-22-05, 10:28 AM	And cloud mind is about as pulp a power as you can get. Remember the Shadow?
FenixZero 02-22-05, 12:06 PM	I bigger problem will be later on when you he can expaned two sizes by spanding more power points. Of coure a Huge kalashtar is easier to see then a Large one. FenixZero
Graz'zt, Prince of Shadow 02-22-05, 12:42 PM	Solution to all psionic problems... Banninate. >_> Yeah, psionics are part of Eberron. Mhmm. no you can't play an inspired, a kalashtar, a psion, a psionic warrior, a wilder OR someone with the wild talent feat. In my games, psionics means "that thing used by aboleths and mindflayers" And, guess what? I don't have any psionic Player problems. :P Frankly, I'm surprised that you have *Player* problems at all.
Lord Schpungus 02-22-05, 12:51 PM	Frankly, I'm surprised that you have *Player* problems at all. I'm surprised he has *any* Players.
greatfrito 02-22-05, 01:00 PM	Yeah... after dealing with a new DM who's gut instinct when he doesn't understand something is "broken? BAN IT", I have to say that the "if you don't like it, ban it" thing is kinda... unsettling if it doesn't come with some kind of reason with it. That said, I'm glad to hear you and your player worked it out, Doctor X. Psionic characters just seem to add so much to a party... and by "so much" I mean "plotlines involving the very-frightening Dreaming Dark and Inspired". Good luck with your game.
Jar Head 02-22-05, 01:38 PM	I can't wait to play this game. We have: A goblin scout that served in the military for 20 years. (Me) A House Cannith foundling cleric of Onatar with the Mark of Making from Mror Holds. A kalashtar pyschic warrior who fought for Breland. And a House Cannith artificer with the Mark of Making. All of which have cool little plotlines in their backround.
darkthought 02-22-05, 01:41 PM	Yeah... after dealing with a new DM who's gut instinct when he doesn't understand something is "broken? BAN IT", I have to say that the "if you don't like it, ban it" thing is kinda... unsettling if it doesn't come with some kind of reason with it. That said, I'm glad to hear you and your player worked it out, Doctor X. Psionic characters just seem to add so much to a party... and by "so much" I mean "plotlines involving the very-frightening Dreaming Dark and Inspired". Good luck with your game. My ideas... if he uses a lot of psionics, he WILL gain the attention of the Inspired and the Dreaming Dark. He doesn't protect his dreams when he goes to sleep, does he? :evillaugh Of course if he's Kalashtar that's not a problem... Also remember to take into account of where he uses his powers. If he uses enlarge in a corridor that's too small, well, congratulations. You've just blocked the path for everybody else, are stuck at half movement, and a big -4 on all physical rolls because you're head and back are smacked up against the ceiling and you're stumped over. But think on the bright side, he'll probably have to pay 1/2 price with that ability when he goes to the Red Light districts of Sharn... :D
philopharynx 02-23-05, 09:28 AM	I have a game with three Kalashtar and a shifter psionic monk, and it's an amazingly Eberronian feeling game. I'll never forget the moment when they found themselves on the front page of the Korranberg chronicle...