An FR book that might make Eberron games better? [Archive] - Wizards Community

An FR book that might make Eberron games better? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rechan
03-09-06, 01:52 PM Before you crucify me for bringing up the foul word that is Forgotten Realms, just hear me out.

Check out the Table of Contents (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060308a&page=1) for the Powers of Faerun excerpt.

This book is about Leading. Be it gaining titles (and influence) in a court, becoming a general and leading militarily, becoming a religious figure with rank in a church, becoming a major player in the economy, setting up the frontier, and high-level challenges; running epic situations like armies and hordes and invasions.

Doesn't that sound like Eberronian High Adventure? Working your way into the King's Court, playing subterfuge and intrigue the whole way? Becoming such a prominent and well-sung cleric of the Flame that you get made a Cardinal? Becoming a merchant prince of the Lhazaar? Diving into Q'barra or Xen'drik to tame the wilds and build civilizations? Or what about working your way into the higher echalons of the Dragonmarked Houses?

Given that Eberron has such low-level people, it warrants the idea that as yoru character gets high in level (like say 10), they should be national heros (unless they're working in secrecy of course). So by the very nature of the setting, this sort of stuff shoudl come with being a hero in Eberron.

I havn't seen the book (natch), but from a look at the table of contents and the way it looks, I'd really like to see something like this applied to the Dragonmarked Houses. If they put info in the Dragonmarked book about how to gain prestige and higher positions within the house, I would be so pleased.
UnkemptSage
03-09-06, 01:56 PM Evil! Vile! Foul! :D It had to be said.

You may have a point, but it may be very specific to the Realms. However, I have seen things in Forgotten Realms material (especially Lords of Darkness) that comes in handy with other settings, even one so out of the ordinary as Eberron (Hey, let's face it, Eberron's weird when compared to standard D&D stuff.)
Rechan
03-09-06, 02:20 PM You may have a point, but it may be very specific to the Realms. However, I have seen things in Forgotten Realms material (especially Lords of Darkness) that comes in handy with other settings.

True, but the stuff like "How to gain rank" and "how to run armies" and the market place chapter, etc, is probably going to be less FR-specific; sure it's going to use FR religions/geopolitical/economic as examples, but that's easily stripped out.

The first five chapters are more applicable than the latter four. But still, it at least has potential.

And IMHO, this is the kind of stuff that should have been in the DMGII.
CzarGarrett
03-09-06, 02:40 PM There's a thread about this in the Future Releases section.

It seems like most of it will be generic, with some of the FR flavor given for examples.
Turkforged
03-09-06, 03:16 PM I believe that Eberron is differrent, because of it's source.. It doesn't feed with magical creatures or something wild to kill and loot, or not something divine...
It's dynamics are in it's political, social, a bit national side.. Gaining influence in the election of Arcane Congress.. Or beating a noble to gain the praise of the queen (and more lands..).. Gaining prestige for your ancestors's holy race, beign a part of militarised Karrnath, fighting to praise it's name...
Yeah, an Eberron campaign is (my opinion) more "worldly" and.. social influences based.. More historical..
Ryan_Singer
03-10-06, 02:19 AM I believe that Eberron is differrent, because of it's source.. It doesn't feed with magical creatures or something wild to kill and loot, or not something divine...
It's dynamics are in it's political, social, a bit national side.. Gaining influence in the election of Arcane Congress.. Or beating a noble to gain the praise of the queen (and more lands..).. Gaining prestige for your ancestors's holy race, beign a part of militarised Karrnath, fighting to praise it's name...
Yeah, an Eberron campaign is (my opinion) more "worldly" and.. social influences based.. More historical..

Are you disagreeing with the OP, or are you just rambling? The OP brought up that this book could help players and GM's do things like "Gaining influence in the election of Arcane Congress" or "beating a noble to gain the praise of the queen (and more lands..)", and that's just the first chapter! Another chapter helps "beign [sic] a part of militarised Karrnath". Please read before posting, it will help you say things that mean more. This thread is about how a book written for the Forgotten Realms can help Eberron because it has many similarities for a high level campaign.

Ryan
igotsmeakabob!!
03-10-06, 02:23 AM He's rambling I think.
Save-vs-DM
03-10-06, 04:15 AM I might actually have to pick this up. I think you have a good point in that a lot of this looks like general advice that really could be applied to any Eberron game (or any game in generally, really). I've picked up a few Faerun books once in a while for my Eberron game (Lost Empires was helpful). If you take out the FR fluff, some of these books are really helpful.

Cheers,
Save vs DM
Firimar Elerrino
03-10-06, 11:39 AM I doubt that I would BUY the foul thing, but I can see myself sitting down in the bookstore and taking some notes.
nastynate
03-10-06, 01:45 PM I doubt that I would BUY the foul thing, but I can see myself sitting down in the bookstore and taking some notes.LOL! I too used Borders Book Store and Cafe like a library. I wouldn't ever buy a $30 hardback novel, but I've read at least five in their cafe. There's not a single D&D book I own, that I haven't read at least half of ahead of time. I'm such a cheep-skate... :D
Rechan
03-10-06, 03:33 PM LOL! I too used Borders Book Store and Cafe like a library. I wouldn't ever buy a $30 hardback novel, but I've read at least five in their cafe. There's not a single D&D book I own, that I haven't read at least half of ahead of time. I'm such a cheep-skate... :D

When I was in DC, they had a two-level Borders. It was magnificent. :drool: And their D&D section was ginormous. That's where I sat and read up on Eberron before purchase. :cool:
Gez
03-12-06, 03:08 PM Ed Greenwood[/url]"]There's a chapter on trade that looks at running guilds, how costers work, dealing with pirates and bandits and the like, provides a sample guildhall, and so on. The focus wasn't on "this current takes ships just here" or "the caravans go around this rock," but rather on here are how things interact, so you can bring mercantile trade to life in any corner of the Realms or your own non-Realms campaign.

This makes me believe some thoughts have been kept in mind for a "generecized" usage of this book. Also:

Wizards: As far as regions are covered, where will the book take us -- Calimshan? The Border Kingdoms? And what might we find there?

Eric: In general, this is not a regionally focused sourcebook, but we do get to touch on a lot of dangling plot threads, like the fate of the Sythillisian Empire and the Iron Throne. As we conceived this book, we realized that the Border Kingdoms [...] were the perfect "playpen" in which to allow your PCs to try out the concepts introduced in this book. So Ed takes us on a whirlwind tour of that everchanging backwater of the Realms ...

Judging from this, the book is organized with the rules first, and the FR example after.
D4rkchylde
03-13-06, 09:42 PM I found the Serpent Kingdoms useful when I was fleshing out some Lizard Folk tribes.
Damien_Hiro
03-14-06, 01:44 PM I found the Serpent Kingdoms useful when I was fleshing out some Lizard Folk tribes.

That is such a great book to bring over. I used the champions of Valor and Ruin also to flesh out bad good guys and vice versa. Most of the Prestige classes can be easily transfered to Eberron.
Ryan_Singer
03-16-06, 12:59 AM I bought the book today from my local games store. Reading through it, my first thoughts were:

1. This is all I need to be a Royal heir
2. This is all I need to be a general of the armies of one of the five nations
3. This is all I need to be a Dragonmarked Baron.

This is very exciting. I can't wait to run such an epic campaign.

R
Rechan
03-16-06, 01:10 AM So, how generic is the info? How applicable to Eberron?

I'm most interested in the non-Army stuff myself.

I really hope WotC puts this kinda stuff in it for the Dragonmarked House.
lugnut71
03-16-06, 03:05 PM it is kind of tempting for me also but I wouldn't be suprised if eventually we also get a more generic kingdom ruling book. (not saying that this one isn't generic enough) (also not using capitlization for some reason).
Ryan_Singer
03-16-06, 03:51 PM So, how generic is the info? How applicable to Eberron?

I'm most interested in the non-Army stuff myself.

I really hope WotC puts this kinda stuff in it for the Dragonmarked House.

The information is perfectly generic. All of the examples and NPC's are for the realms, but the rules and advice is applicable to Eberron.

There are seven fluff chapters:

1. Playing in and around a noble or royal court. Some Eberron parties get neck deep into this, especially those games that are primarily espionage games.

2. Being a high rank in a military. Although you might not be interested in this, it has a great value to eberron games in which Khorvaire erupts into war again and the heroes either pick sides or work as mercenaries.

3. Being a Spiritual Leader. Want to spread the silver flame among the non-believers? How about become a Bishop of the Soveriegn host? Here's how.

4. Being a business leader. My favorite, includes enough rules and advice (including the crunch chapter later on) to actually roleplay as a Baron of a dragonmarked house. This chapter was worth the book to me.

5. Tame the Frontier! Settle unsettled lands! Making an area safe for human life and leading the communities through killer winters makes a great game in any setting.

6. NPC Org's: Marshals and Heralds.

7. The border kingdom's: FR-specific fluff about an area with shifting leadership.

There are also two crunch chapters:

1. High-level challenges

2. Mechanics of ruling: Expands on the leadership feat in the DMG and also provides an inluence mechanic that you can raise through roleplaying that gives a bonus to leadership.

In my opinion, this book is required reading for any Eberron GM who sets his sights higher than published adventures and / or 10th level.
Tait Ransom
03-16-06, 10:02 PM I picked it up about a week ago, and plan to use it in my current Eberron campaign. There's some Realms specific examples, and a good bit of Realms fluff in the Boarder Kingdoms section, but the meat of the book can be used in any setting.

The only issue I have with it is the information for gaining rank in the military campaign section requires Heroes of Battle for the actual mechanics, and the business section requires the DMGII for some actual mechanics. The general information in these sections is great, but I have no interest in picking up Heroes of Battle, so it would have been helpful to me if they'd reprinted that section.

This book is definitely worth taking a look at!
Rechan
03-17-06, 12:48 AM In my opinion, this book is required reading for any Eberron GM who sets his sights higher than published adventures and / or 10th level.

Excellent. Although, unless the stuff mentioned is level dependent (requiring making high DCs), you could conceivably do all of that stuff at lower levels.
Ryan_Singer
03-17-06, 01:01 AM Excellent. Although, unless the stuff mentioned is level dependent (requiring making high DCs), you could conceivably do all of that stuff at lower levels.

It's actually less level dependant than in the core rules. Of course, to have the Leadership feat you have to be sixth level, but the influence mechanic allows you to get a high leadership score from roleplaying and role instead of just from level + CHA.
Kid SixXx
03-20-06, 10:35 AM IMO, PoF really is a definitive work when it comes to explaining the mechanics of government, bureaucracy, or religious hierarchies in game terms.

I tend to agree with the chorus of this thread in touting PoF as a must-read for any DM regardless of the setting. I had hoped that 5N would have provided the same sort of info that PoF does in relation to power structures in Eberron, & PoF it pretty much supports my notion that 5N should have been a much larger book.

Either that or hopefully there will be a PoF web supplement providing clear cut ideas on transporting concepts from PoF to other settings.

Another good FR book for Eberron DM's, IMO, is Lost Empires of Faerūn or at least it will be good to have until our Xen'Drik book comes out.

LEoF is a wonderful tool for building lore around your textbook "advanced / lost civilizations." I've been using concepts from LEoF to fill in the blanks concerning pre-cataclysm Giant civilization.

I'll fill in any "official" blanks with the Xen'Drik book once it hits shelves, but will use LEoF as my reference for any vagaries.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rechan 03-09-06, 01:52 PM	Before you crucify me for bringing up the foul word that is Forgotten Realms, just hear me out. Check out the Table of Contents (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060308a&page=1) for the Powers of Faerun excerpt. This book is about Leading. Be it gaining titles (and influence) in a court, becoming a general and leading militarily, becoming a religious figure with rank in a church, becoming a major player in the economy, setting up the frontier, and high-level challenges; running epic situations like armies and hordes and invasions. Doesn't that sound like Eberronian High Adventure? Working your way into the King's Court, playing subterfuge and intrigue the whole way? Becoming such a prominent and well-sung cleric of the Flame that you get made a Cardinal? Becoming a merchant prince of the Lhazaar? Diving into Q'barra or Xen'drik to tame the wilds and build civilizations? Or what about working your way into the higher echalons of the Dragonmarked Houses? Given that Eberron has such low-level people, it warrants the idea that as yoru character gets high in level (like say 10), they should be national heros (unless they're working in secrecy of course). So by the very nature of the setting, this sort of stuff shoudl come with being a hero in Eberron. I havn't seen the book (natch), but from a look at the table of contents and the way it looks, I'd really like to see something like this applied to the Dragonmarked Houses. If they put info in the Dragonmarked book about how to gain prestige and higher positions within the house, I would be so pleased.
UnkemptSage 03-09-06, 01:56 PM	Evil! Vile! Foul! :D It had to be said. You may have a point, but it may be very specific to the Realms. However, I have seen things in Forgotten Realms material (especially Lords of Darkness) that comes in handy with other settings, even one so out of the ordinary as Eberron (Hey, let's face it, Eberron's weird when compared to standard D&D stuff.)
Rechan 03-09-06, 02:20 PM	You may have a point, but it may be very specific to the Realms. However, I have seen things in Forgotten Realms material (especially Lords of Darkness) that comes in handy with other settings. True, but the stuff like "How to gain rank" and "how to run armies" and the market place chapter, etc, is probably going to be less FR-specific; sure it's going to use FR religions/geopolitical/economic as examples, but that's easily stripped out. The first five chapters are more applicable than the latter four. But still, it at least has potential. And IMHO, this is the kind of stuff that should have been in the DMGII.
CzarGarrett 03-09-06, 02:40 PM	There's a thread about this in the Future Releases section. It seems like most of it will be generic, with some of the FR flavor given for examples.
Turkforged 03-09-06, 03:16 PM	I believe that Eberron is differrent, because of it's source.. It doesn't feed with magical creatures or something wild to kill and loot, or not something divine... It's dynamics are in it's political, social, a bit national side.. Gaining influence in the election of Arcane Congress.. Or beating a noble to gain the praise of the queen (and more lands..).. Gaining prestige for your ancestors's holy race, beign a part of militarised Karrnath, fighting to praise it's name... Yeah, an Eberron campaign is (my opinion) more "worldly" and.. social influences based.. More historical..
Ryan_Singer 03-10-06, 02:19 AM	I believe that Eberron is differrent, because of it's source.. It doesn't feed with magical creatures or something wild to kill and loot, or not something divine... It's dynamics are in it's political, social, a bit national side.. Gaining influence in the election of Arcane Congress.. Or beating a noble to gain the praise of the queen (and more lands..).. Gaining prestige for your ancestors's holy race, beign a part of militarised Karrnath, fighting to praise it's name... Yeah, an Eberron campaign is (my opinion) more "worldly" and.. social influences based.. More historical.. Are you disagreeing with the OP, or are you just rambling? The OP brought up that this book could help players and GM's do things like "Gaining influence in the election of Arcane Congress" or "beating a noble to gain the praise of the queen (and more lands..)", and that's just the first chapter! Another chapter helps "beign [sic] a part of militarised Karrnath". Please read before posting, it will help you say things that mean more. This thread is about how a book written for the Forgotten Realms can help Eberron because it has many similarities for a high level campaign. Ryan
igotsmeakabob!! 03-10-06, 02:23 AM	He's rambling I think.
Save-vs-DM 03-10-06, 04:15 AM	I might actually have to pick this up. I think you have a good point in that a lot of this looks like general advice that really could be applied to any Eberron game (or any game in generally, really). I've picked up a few Faerun books once in a while for my Eberron game (Lost Empires was helpful). If you take out the FR fluff, some of these books are really helpful. Cheers, Save vs DM
Firimar Elerrino 03-10-06, 11:39 AM	I doubt that I would BUY the foul thing, but I can see myself sitting down in the bookstore and taking some notes.
nastynate 03-10-06, 01:45 PM	I doubt that I would BUY the foul thing, but I can see myself sitting down in the bookstore and taking some notes.LOL! I too used Borders Book Store and Cafe like a library. I wouldn't ever buy a $30 hardback novel, but I've read at least five in their cafe. There's not a single D&D book I own, that I haven't read at least half of ahead of time. I'm such a cheep-skate... :D
Rechan 03-10-06, 03:33 PM	LOL! I too used Borders Book Store and Cafe like a library. I wouldn't ever buy a $30 hardback novel, but I've read at least five in their cafe. There's not a single D&D book I own, that I haven't read at least half of ahead of time. I'm such a cheep-skate... :D When I was in DC, they had a two-level Borders. It was magnificent. :drool: And their D&D section was ginormous. That's where I sat and read up on Eberron before purchase. :cool:
Gez 03-12-06, 03:08 PM	Ed Greenwood[/url]"]There's a chapter on trade that looks at running guilds, how costers work, dealing with pirates and bandits and the like, provides a sample guildhall, and so on. The focus wasn't on "this current takes ships just here" or "the caravans go around this rock," but rather on here are how things interact, so you can bring mercantile trade to life in any corner of the Realms or your own non-Realms campaign. This makes me believe some thoughts have been kept in mind for a "generecized" usage of this book. Also: Wizards: As far as regions are covered, where will the book take us -- Calimshan? The Border Kingdoms? And what might we find there? Eric: In general, this is not a regionally focused sourcebook, but we do get to touch on a lot of dangling plot threads, like the fate of the Sythillisian Empire and the Iron Throne. As we conceived this book, we realized that the Border Kingdoms [...] were the perfect "playpen" in which to allow your PCs to try out the concepts introduced in this book. So Ed takes us on a whirlwind tour of that everchanging backwater of the Realms ... Judging from this, the book is organized with the rules first, and the FR example after.
D4rkchylde 03-13-06, 09:42 PM	I found the Serpent Kingdoms useful when I was fleshing out some Lizard Folk tribes.
Damien_Hiro 03-14-06, 01:44 PM	I found the Serpent Kingdoms useful when I was fleshing out some Lizard Folk tribes. That is such a great book to bring over. I used the champions of Valor and Ruin also to flesh out bad good guys and vice versa. Most of the Prestige classes can be easily transfered to Eberron.
Ryan_Singer 03-16-06, 12:59 AM	I bought the book today from my local games store. Reading through it, my first thoughts were: 1. This is all I need to be a Royal heir 2. This is all I need to be a general of the armies of one of the five nations 3. This is all I need to be a Dragonmarked Baron. This is very exciting. I can't wait to run such an epic campaign. R
Rechan 03-16-06, 01:10 AM	So, how generic is the info? How applicable to Eberron? I'm most interested in the non-Army stuff myself. I really hope WotC puts this kinda stuff in it for the Dragonmarked House.
lugnut71 03-16-06, 03:05 PM	it is kind of tempting for me also but I wouldn't be suprised if eventually we also get a more generic kingdom ruling book. (not saying that this one isn't generic enough) (also not using capitlization for some reason).
Ryan_Singer 03-16-06, 03:51 PM	So, how generic is the info? How applicable to Eberron? I'm most interested in the non-Army stuff myself. I really hope WotC puts this kinda stuff in it for the Dragonmarked House. The information is perfectly generic. All of the examples and NPC's are for the realms, but the rules and advice is applicable to Eberron. There are seven fluff chapters: 1. Playing in and around a noble or royal court. Some Eberron parties get neck deep into this, especially those games that are primarily espionage games. 2. Being a high rank in a military. Although you might not be interested in this, it has a great value to eberron games in which Khorvaire erupts into war again and the heroes either pick sides or work as mercenaries. 3. Being a Spiritual Leader. Want to spread the silver flame among the non-believers? How about become a Bishop of the Soveriegn host? Here's how. 4. Being a business leader. My favorite, includes enough rules and advice (including the crunch chapter later on) to actually roleplay as a Baron of a dragonmarked house. This chapter was worth the book to me. 5. Tame the Frontier! Settle unsettled lands! Making an area safe for human life and leading the communities through killer winters makes a great game in any setting. 6. NPC Org's: Marshals and Heralds. 7. The border kingdom's: FR-specific fluff about an area with shifting leadership. There are also two crunch chapters: 1. High-level challenges 2. Mechanics of ruling: Expands on the leadership feat in the DMG and also provides an inluence mechanic that you can raise through roleplaying that gives a bonus to leadership. In my opinion, this book is required reading for any Eberron GM who sets his sights higher than published adventures and / or 10th level.
Tait Ransom 03-16-06, 10:02 PM	I picked it up about a week ago, and plan to use it in my current Eberron campaign. There's some Realms specific examples, and a good bit of Realms fluff in the Boarder Kingdoms section, but the meat of the book can be used in any setting. The only issue I have with it is the information for gaining rank in the military campaign section requires Heroes of Battle for the actual mechanics, and the business section requires the DMGII for some actual mechanics. The general information in these sections is great, but I have no interest in picking up Heroes of Battle, so it would have been helpful to me if they'd reprinted that section. This book is definitely worth taking a look at!
Rechan 03-17-06, 12:48 AM	In my opinion, this book is required reading for any Eberron GM who sets his sights higher than published adventures and / or 10th level. Excellent. Although, unless the stuff mentioned is level dependent (requiring making high DCs), you could conceivably do all of that stuff at lower levels.
Ryan_Singer 03-17-06, 01:01 AM	Excellent. Although, unless the stuff mentioned is level dependent (requiring making high DCs), you could conceivably do all of that stuff at lower levels. It's actually less level dependant than in the core rules. Of course, to have the Leadership feat you have to be sixth level, but the influence mechanic allows you to get a high leadership score from roleplaying and role instead of just from level + CHA.
Kid SixXx 03-20-06, 10:35 AM	IMO, PoF really is a definitive work when it comes to explaining the mechanics of government, bureaucracy, or religious hierarchies in game terms. I tend to agree with the chorus of this thread in touting PoF as a must-read for any DM regardless of the setting. I had hoped that 5N would have provided the same sort of info that PoF does in relation to power structures in Eberron, & PoF it pretty much supports my notion that 5N should have been a much larger book. Either that or hopefully there will be a PoF web supplement providing clear cut ideas on transporting concepts from PoF to other settings. Another good FR book for Eberron DM's, IMO, is Lost Empires of Faerūn or at least it will be good to have until our Xen'Drik book comes out. LEoF is a wonderful tool for building lore around your textbook "advanced / lost civilizations." I've been using concepts from LEoF to fill in the blanks concerning pre-cataclysm Giant civilization. I'll fill in any "official" blanks with the Xen'Drik book once it hits shelves, but will use LEoF as my reference for any vagaries.