Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 11-27-06, 01:17 PM	My group almost never used published campaign settings in the past. ...since we started playing back in the day, it was always homebrew for us. Sure, we'd buy the occational setting-specific book for new options to include, but we never (for instance) ran a FR campaign, a Greyhawk campaign, etc... Then I finally got around to reading the books for the Eberron campaign setting ...and just had to run a campaign in it. :D ...and I have been doing so for several months now - and it's been quite successful. :) Thing is, I'm facing an awkward dilemma that I've never even given the slightest thought to in any of our homebrew campaigns... I'm seriously concerned about putting my PCs in the position to majorly change the world. Everything in the setting is well integrated... and there are tons of factions, organizations, houses, etc that all relate to one another in specific ways... One of the big, key secrets of the world (Erandis d'Vol is still around, Kaius III is really Kaius I ...oh and he's a vampire, the secret behind the Mournlands as you see it as the DM, etc... etc...) getting out could cause major ramifications... even moreso if the PCs ever find themselves in a position to "deal" with these secrets. Now yes... lots of these plots and other secrets are very well hidden. ...and yes, many of these hidden threats are powerful indeed (far beyond being being addressed by the PCs till they're quite high level... and even then it would be a great challenge). However, were I to want to use one of these great secret plots in a manner that might lead the PCs to finding out the "truth", I'm worried about how it might effect the campaign by drastically altering the setting. ...possibly even finding things taken to a logical end where it doesn't even feel like the core Eberron setting any longer. Yeah, I'm probably just worrying too much :P ...call it my DM quirk (likely one of many hehe). Have any of you worked your PCs into a position where they found out one of the great secrets of Eberron? ...were they in a position to do anything about it? ...if so, how did it effect your game world? If one campaign that majorly altered the setting came to an end and then started a new campaign set in Eberron, did you just "reset" everything ...or did you continue forward with the majorly altered world? Just curious, more than anything. :)
beelzebuddha 11-27-06, 02:12 PM	Revealing secrets to PCs is the best part of running something in a world as complex as Eberron. What they know won't change the rest of Eberron -- just how they perceive it. How that perception is presented is up to you. How will they deal with that shift in perception? Well, that's up to them. Will people believe them? Will the PCs really care? All that stuff comes down to the roleplaying part of gaming -- there are no rolls to figure this out... Show them the secret and see where they go with it. Remember, you have complete control over how the world deals with the PCs and their new-found knowledge...
mdock2003 11-27-06, 02:13 PM	While I love to use published campaigns I generally don't hold the material as sacred. If the PC's do something that changes something major or discover some hidden secret I integrate it into my Eberron campaign setting. Granted if you were playing in a Living campaign this might no be as possible to do but if you play only home games with a fairly regular group you can pretty much change what you want. Game publishers only lay the foundation for you to build upon. They supply the world, what you do with it is up to you. One of my favorite setting is the Wheel of Time (it's a shame that isn't supported by WoTC anymore) but I don't follow the books in my game. Granted I own all of the books and I know the material enough to run a by the book campaign, but I don't. If my players wanted to play Wheel of Time or Eberron only how they are in the text then they might as well buy the novelizations and not play. That's the great thing about it. You have all this source material to choose from but you only have to use what you want. I actually have 2 Eberron worlds. One is the actual Eberron setting that uses a lot of source material, but it is still not an unchangable world. The 2 world is called Ebyrron which is actually Eberron with touches of Wheel of Time. All the elements of Eberron are there including the cities, but I added in Tar Valon from Wheel of Time to Xen' drick and a few other elements that the players really liked. If you completely destroy Sharn in your campaign, but it is still intact in all the source material and the novels... who cares. As long as you and your players are having fun it doesn't matter. It's kind of like having alternate timelines... everyone who plays in a campaign setting pretty much has a completely different world. The key is consistency... if you change it keep it changed. Unless you all agree to start a new campaign and set it in the original Eberron, then you can start all over again. Any player knowledge from the previous campaign is null and void. I don't know about your group but my gang usually likes knowing they actually matter in the world they game in. It makes the setting feel "real".
Pallin Rahl 11-27-06, 02:37 PM	Of course everyone is free to change things as they see fit... that's not the issue here... I too like my PCs to have an actual impact on the world... and in my homebrew campaigns I have no prob with it at all. However, lots of things are quite interrelated in Eberron. The PCs finding out some hidden truth and acting on it could... I dunno... kick off the next world war (i.e. re-start the Last War) or something... drastically changing the feel and key concepts that make Eberron, Eberron (to me, at least). I want my PCs to be able to shape the world... I just want to hang onto the feel and flow of "Eberron" in the process... thus my concerns... Of course I could just throw caution to the wind and let what happens, happen. ...but once this campaign comes to a close someday - I'm wondering what I might have to do if I wish to start a new campaign in Eberron. Resetting the timeline to bring it back to the standard Eberron would be necessary, I suppose (and pretend like the other campaign didn't take place). That way, if they expose Kaius, kill Erandis and help kick-off the new Last War by accidentally replicating the Day of Mourning centered in Sharn... I could start over fresh with Eberron as we know it... Never expected this odd concern... guess it's just an odd quirk of mine related to running a game in a published campaign world, when so used to homebrewing everything. :P
Mind Flayer Monk 11-28-06, 02:49 AM	I've found the best thing about Eberron is breaking things and watching the fallout. A recent campaign I did resulted in the PCs destroying the source of dragonmarks (so no one was born with Dragonmarks from that time on). The results were fantastic. It gave the campaign an epic feel and the PCs were very happy and the campaign took on a new depth, especially the PCs decision making. Of course, someone found a way to recreate dragonmarks by stealing from those that already possessed them, and so began the next story arc. It's been lots of fun and because the campaign setting is still so new, it responds well to big changes.
JustX 11-28-06, 03:47 AM	I let my players do things to alter the setting all the time. Usually it involves them doing something that causes them more trouble, but there have been times where their creativity has to be rewarded. In my current game, they have yet to actually go adventuring. They have been plotting to reorganize the reminants of cyre and bring about some signifigant changes. They managed get information that allowed them to the blackmail the Dwarves for a sizable loan with very generous repayment options because they discovered that the Dwarven country wasn't exactly legal because some idiot forgot to sign. By helping them get that done, they manged to get a foothold in their objective. The sizable loan allowed for them to get a floating fortress into preproduction that would serve as the home to New Cyre and be stationed in the sea between Stormreach and Shar as a way to stick it to both and turn a profit by becoming a mobile port of call. To this end, they have been hard at work recruiting adventures and funding their adventures for a cut of the take. Their goals are to rebuild Cyre as a city-state and expand the concepts behind the floating city until it can become a floating metropolis. Part of their income has come in the form of trade with the Saughuin for Syberis shards that might have fallen in their territories. They have also been working to pull in those minor races that have been scattered across the lands. then when you add in their plots to hopefully reactivate and upgrade a Xen'drik forge, something out of the scope of the treaty of thronehold and something that Cyre didn't sign, they are looking for a way to rebuild the military power of the once great nation. As their ideas begin to take shape, there are interested parties that are looking to ally with them for their own reasons. Namely certain warforged obsessed House leaders.
Mr. VanderMeer 11-28-06, 05:33 AM	Discovering big secrets and doing something about them is a big part of the fun of using a published setting. By the time you are through with the campaign a lot should have changed. The world should know the PC's have been there!
Pallin Rahl 11-28-06, 12:26 PM	Eh... guess I am just worrying too much. I suppose I should just run it as I would any homebrew world and let the pieces fall as they may ;) (note: Honestly, in my Eberron campaign, nothing huge has come up yet... just got to thinking about it. ...it's not like I'm limiting my PC's options or anything. But I suppose I should just go with the flow as normal and if they drastically alter the world, just proceed as I would in any homebrew campaign) :)
DoveArrow 11-28-06, 12:58 PM	I understand your dilemma. Believe me, it's a dilemma we all face when running a pre-published campaign setting. I think, though, there are a number of things you can keep in mind that will help you as a DM. First, just because the PCs are able to kill a major villain, like King Kaius, or the Lord of Blades, doesn't mean that those villains have to stay dead. King Kaius, after all, is a vampire, and while you may wind up reducing him to 0 hit points, you can't really kill him without either exposing him to sunlight or destroying his coffin. Meanwhile, it's possible that the Lord of Blades may not be a single entity, but any number of warforged who carry the name as a kind of title (I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts, so to speak). It's also possible that the LoB has access to a creation forge capable of reforging his body and endowing that body with his spiritual essence. The other thing to think about is that while a major villain may be behind a particular plot, it doesn't necessarily mean that the PCs can get to them. The Daughters of Sora Kell, for example, are constantly surrounded by any number of monstrous bodyguards, and Erlandis d'Vol has the Emerald Claw and the legions of the undead at her beck and call. The PCs may be aware that these villains are the ones stirring the pot, and they may think that taking them out will ultimately solve the problem. However, sometimes, it's easier (and safer) to stop the minions, then it is to attempt a quixotic mission against their leaders that will only wind up in the death of the PCs. So those are some things to think about. Hope it helps. :)
Korhal_IV 11-28-06, 08:26 PM	Let your PCs do it, but keep track of time. If the PCs do something major (such as dethroning Kaius or shattering the Riedran empire), keep track of which point in the timeline it occurs. If you think it's getting too complex, trail off the campaign there, rewind the timeline to the beginning of 998YK, clear your throat, and begin with "As great events unfold elsewhere, a group of unlikely heroes convene here in Sharn..." Your players will get the success of doing something huge, and the bennies of hearing about it as their other campaigns keep going ("Did you hear? The entire staff of the Riedran embassy fell ill yesterday! They've barricaded the door and won't let Jorasco healers in!"). If you don't feel inspired to sort out the damage the players caused, you can leave it there, or you can pick it up again when you feel like it. ("Hailed as legends by kalashtar across the continent, you are enjoying the royal treatment when an Orien courier enters...")