Ancient Quori [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ancient Quori [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psion_3
10-06-07, 06:10 AM IIRC, the Quori that fought against the giants in Xen'Drik were not the same Quori who invaded Riedra, right?

So, can we safely assume they were the "good" Quori?
ieattrollsforbreakfast
10-06-07, 07:02 AM They were different, yes, but assuming they were 'good' is a bit unsafe. The only creature we know of with any knowledge of the previous Quori, the docent Shira, [Dreaming Dark spoiler]was horrified by new quori, but that's far from conclusive. They could easily be neutral, or explify some other trait not associated with alignment.
Remember that the old quori invaded Xen'drik and waged war on the Giants. If you want to old quori to be good in your game, that's something you'll have to justify.
ChimericalWolf
10-06-07, 07:05 AM Maybe. That's the big assumption.

I think maybe not, though. Between the age of man and the age of giants was the age of monsters, focused mainly on the Dhakaani empire. If the Quori ages are synced with Eberron's ages, that would make the Dhakaani Quori Light, and the Giants Quori Dark.

But, who knows? Maybe that Philosopher Quori was wrong, and there is no turning of the Age. Maybe it is in the nature of the Quori to be nightmares, forever.
Psion_3
10-06-07, 08:41 AM If the Quori ages are synced with Eberron's ages, that would make the Dhakaani Quori Light, and the Giants Quori Dark.
Do we have something in the books that relates Quori ages with Eberron's ages?
ieattrollsforbreakfast
10-06-07, 09:22 AM Do we have something in the books that relates Quori ages with Eberron's ages?

No, I'm pretty sure the current quori have been around since the end of the Age of Giants (for the current age and the Age of Monsters). I don't have time to search for a quote, though, but Races of Eberron is probably the best place to look.
Toloran
10-06-07, 12:52 PM No, I'm pretty sure the current quori have been around since the end of the Age of Giants (for the current age and the Age of Monsters). I don't have time to search for a quote, though, but Races of Eberron is probably the best place to look.

Correct, The current age of il-lashtar (The Darkness that Dreams) has been around since the end of the age of Giants when the Dal Quor shifted. Although that is only presumeably since it could actually be almost any time after Dal Quors connection with Eberron was severed (although it is likely to be about the same time).

As far as what it was like before Shira describes Dal Quor as a world of light and hope rather then its current darkness. So I assume that they were like the current Kalashtar: Generally neutral to good (heck, maybe back then they had their own "Evil Kalashtar" who didn't like their goody two-shoes brethren. Hmm... thats a good idea for a campaign...). In either case, no one knows what triggers the shift since it isn't like the normal planar orbits.

Here is my Theory:

My theory is that the Shift is triggered by changes in the intelligent societies. The Giants and Elves of Xen'drik were on the long road to destruction long before the Quori invaded them. The giants were growing powerful in their magics but they were also increasingly arrogant and over confidant. In addition, the elves were a subjugated race and obviously resentful of this. Their personalities and beliefs shaped their dreams which in turn shaped Dal Quor and gradually was shifting it towards changing. The Quori tried to leave and when they were rejected their war only accelerated the process. Then, I believe, after the war when the Giants in their arrogance tried to turn their magics against Eberron itself that was the finally bit that tipped the scales and turned Dal Quor in to a realm of evil and darkness.

Now, theoretically, it should work the other way as well: Eberron is currently on the long road towards peace with the end of the Last War. Granted, they are in the middle of a Cold War but progress is being made. The current Quori are against this because if things become too happy/good Dal Quor will shift again and change it once more.

Thats my theory anyway.
The Dreaming Duck
10-06-07, 03:00 PM Setting aside the novels for the moment, I'll point to the sidebar quoting Shira on page 154 of Secrets of Xen'drik. However, the description of the docent clearly states that it's up to the DM to decide if this is truth or propaganda... if she's the last survivor of an age of light or a trickster with her own agenda.

Ultimately, it seems like it's a DMs call. The current age is dark and the kalashtar believe the next age will be light. It may be that the pattern is dark-light-dark-light, it could be dark-light-gray-dark-light-gray, or being the world of dreams, it might be dark-light-paisley-spoon.
Kaizer_Ryu
10-06-07, 07:34 PM ...or being the world of dreams, it might be dark-light-paisley-spoon.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/1500220141_05acf27a79_o.jpg

I feel ashamed, yet strangely proud of this. :D
Shady314
10-07-07, 04:19 AM Here is my Theory:

My theory is that the Shift is triggered by changes in the intelligent societies. The Giants and Elves of Xen'drik were on the long road to destruction long before the Quori invaded them. The giants were growing powerful in their magics but they were also increasingly arrogant and over confidant. In addition, the elves were a subjugated race and obviously resentful of this. Their personalities and beliefs shaped their dreams which in turn shaped Dal Quor and gradually was shifting it towards changing. The Quori tried to leave and when they were rejected their war only accelerated the process. Then, I believe, after the war when the Giants in their arrogance tried to turn their magics against Eberron itself that was the finally bit that tipped the scales and turned Dal Quor in to a realm of evil and darkness.

Now, theoretically, it should work the other way as well: Eberron is currently on the long road towards peace with the end of the Last War. Granted, they are in the middle of a Cold War but progress is being made. The current Quori are against this because if things become too happy/good Dal Quor will shift again and change it once more.

Thats my theory anyway.

It's a fine theory that I've seen before. The only issue is that Elves don't dream.
Toloran
10-07-07, 04:19 PM Hmm... True. I always forget that. Well, that doesn't hurt the theory, just lessens it a bit.
Edymnion
10-08-07, 08:38 PM So, can we safely assume they were the "good" Quori?No, we can't. Even if we want to assume that the plane always has a normal alignment, it could just as easily have been Neutral, or it could have also been evil. It could be cyclical, going Good -> Neutral -> Evil -> Good... or it could be random, or it could be non-aligned and its simply an oddity that the entire plane is overall the same this time around.

We can't really assume though that the last one was good just because this one is evil.
Kaizer_Ryu
10-08-07, 09:00 PM We can't really assume though that the last one was good just because this one is evil.On a similar note, it could be that the Quori that invaded Xendric, be they good, evil, spoon, or Forgotten Freedom in outlook, were trying to accomplish the very same thing the current day Quori are. Just in a much more straight forward way.

Or they might have been fleeing the apparent turning of the age. Either makes a cool campaign idea I may have to use. :D
dang
10-09-07, 03:56 AM maybe my views have been corrupted by novels, but i'm not sure that the quori of the previous age "invaded" xen'drik, so much as tried to colonize and were attacked. the giants were pretty nasty, after all (slave-holding bullies)

so yes, i agree with the theory that it cycles good/evil, or perhaps good/evil/neutral, but we haven't seen neutral yet. (it could even be that the inspired are unwittingly accelerating the change by sending the Riedran masses pleasant dreams to keep them docile.)

so an age of mostly pleasant dreams, followed by nightmares, followed by... weird and awkward dreams? (that's how most of mine are, anywho.)

sidenote: interesting that the elves could have served as the perfect slave soldiers in the quori/giant wars -- could also be how they managed to put together enough weapons and magic to escape and attack their weakened masters -- a combined coup d'etat/slave revolt.
Vharuck
10-09-07, 04:38 PM Isn't the current Dal Quor in the third cycle? That means that there was another Dal Quor before and different from the one which the Quori fled to invade the giants.

So maybe it is Good (first cycle) -> Neutral (invasion cycle) -> Evil (current cycle)
OrionArisen
10-12-07, 11:55 AM Who says it was the Quori who initially invaded the Giants? Maybe the Giants did something to really tick the Quori off?
LivingShadow
10-12-07, 05:04 PM Being a somewhat mutable realm maybe it's possible that the quori mutated getting darker and more evil as the dark cycle nears its end.

Along that theory it is possible for the quori that Shira encountered were evil but not as evil as the ones at the current time.
Zahrah
10-16-07, 08:19 PM I've been putting a lot of thought into using the Dreaming Dark as a villain in my campaign and I came up with a few cool ideas. Back when the giants rules Xendric the elves and drow DID dream, when the giants unleashed the catastrophic magic that threw Dal Quor away from Eberron they did so at the cost of the dreams of all on Xendric. I was also thinking that perhaps the giants had ripped Dal Quor into two pieces. The large piece was to remain Dal Quor, forever stuck in a remote orbit to Eberron. The small piece, the part with the dreams of Xendric bound in it remained in a coterminous, but hugely fast orbit, so fast does it orbit that it is VERY hard to travel between Eberron and Lesser Dal Quor, somewhat like trying to step onto a speeding train.

Anyway, that's just some weird thoughts I had while sitting up far too late.
ZeroSD
10-19-07, 05:26 PM It could be they were evil, but different on the law/chaos spectrum, and what would horrify the old Quori is how regimented and controlled the new ones are, whereas mortals of Eberron would still consider them evil nightmares.

Just more free-spirited evil nightmares.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psion_3 10-06-07, 06:10 AM	IIRC, the Quori that fought against the giants in Xen'Drik were not the same Quori who invaded Riedra, right? So, can we safely assume they were the "good" Quori?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 10-06-07, 07:02 AM	They were different, yes, but assuming they were 'good' is a bit unsafe. The only creature we know of with any knowledge of the previous Quori, the docent Shira, [Dreaming Dark spoiler]was horrified by new quori, but that's far from conclusive. They could easily be neutral, or explify some other trait not associated with alignment. Remember that the old quori invaded Xen'drik and waged war on the Giants. If you want to old quori to be good in your game, that's something you'll have to justify.
ChimericalWolf 10-06-07, 07:05 AM	Maybe. That's the big assumption. I think maybe not, though. Between the age of man and the age of giants was the age of monsters, focused mainly on the Dhakaani empire. If the Quori ages are synced with Eberron's ages, that would make the Dhakaani Quori Light, and the Giants Quori Dark. But, who knows? Maybe that Philosopher Quori was wrong, and there is no turning of the Age. Maybe it is in the nature of the Quori to be nightmares, forever.
Psion_3 10-06-07, 08:41 AM	If the Quori ages are synced with Eberron's ages, that would make the Dhakaani Quori Light, and the Giants Quori Dark. Do we have something in the books that relates Quori ages with Eberron's ages?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 10-06-07, 09:22 AM	Do we have something in the books that relates Quori ages with Eberron's ages? No, I'm pretty sure the current quori have been around since the end of the Age of Giants (for the current age and the Age of Monsters). I don't have time to search for a quote, though, but Races of Eberron is probably the best place to look.
Toloran 10-06-07, 12:52 PM	No, I'm pretty sure the current quori have been around since the end of the Age of Giants (for the current age and the Age of Monsters). I don't have time to search for a quote, though, but Races of Eberron is probably the best place to look. Correct, The current age of il-lashtar (The Darkness that Dreams) has been around since the end of the age of Giants when the Dal Quor shifted. Although that is only presumeably since it could actually be almost any time after Dal Quors connection with Eberron was severed (although it is likely to be about the same time). As far as what it was like before Shira describes Dal Quor as a world of light and hope rather then its current darkness. So I assume that they were like the current Kalashtar: Generally neutral to good (heck, maybe back then they had their own "Evil Kalashtar" who didn't like their goody two-shoes brethren. Hmm... thats a good idea for a campaign...). In either case, no one knows what triggers the shift since it isn't like the normal planar orbits. Here is my Theory: My theory is that the Shift is triggered by changes in the intelligent societies. The Giants and Elves of Xen'drik were on the long road to destruction long before the Quori invaded them. The giants were growing powerful in their magics but they were also increasingly arrogant and over confidant. In addition, the elves were a subjugated race and obviously resentful of this. Their personalities and beliefs shaped their dreams which in turn shaped Dal Quor and gradually was shifting it towards changing. The Quori tried to leave and when they were rejected their war only accelerated the process. Then, I believe, after the war when the Giants in their arrogance tried to turn their magics against Eberron itself that was the finally bit that tipped the scales and turned Dal Quor in to a realm of evil and darkness. Now, theoretically, it should work the other way as well: Eberron is currently on the long road towards peace with the end of the Last War. Granted, they are in the middle of a Cold War but progress is being made. The current Quori are against this because if things become too happy/good Dal Quor will shift again and change it once more. Thats my theory anyway.
The Dreaming Duck 10-06-07, 03:00 PM	Setting aside the novels for the moment, I'll point to the sidebar quoting Shira on page 154 of Secrets of Xen'drik. However, the description of the docent clearly states that it's up to the DM to decide if this is truth or propaganda... if she's the last survivor of an age of light or a trickster with her own agenda. Ultimately, it seems like it's a DMs call. The current age is dark and the kalashtar believe the next age will be light. It may be that the pattern is dark-light-dark-light, it could be dark-light-gray-dark-light-gray, or being the world of dreams, it might be dark-light-paisley-spoon.
Kaizer_Ryu 10-06-07, 07:34 PM	...or being the world of dreams, it might be dark-light-paisley-spoon. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/1500220141_05acf27a79_o.jpg I feel ashamed, yet strangely proud of this. :D
Shady314 10-07-07, 04:19 AM	Here is my Theory: My theory is that the Shift is triggered by changes in the intelligent societies. The Giants and Elves of Xen'drik were on the long road to destruction long before the Quori invaded them. The giants were growing powerful in their magics but they were also increasingly arrogant and over confidant. In addition, the elves were a subjugated race and obviously resentful of this. Their personalities and beliefs shaped their dreams which in turn shaped Dal Quor and gradually was shifting it towards changing. The Quori tried to leave and when they were rejected their war only accelerated the process. Then, I believe, after the war when the Giants in their arrogance tried to turn their magics against Eberron itself that was the finally bit that tipped the scales and turned Dal Quor in to a realm of evil and darkness. Now, theoretically, it should work the other way as well: Eberron is currently on the long road towards peace with the end of the Last War. Granted, they are in the middle of a Cold War but progress is being made. The current Quori are against this because if things become too happy/good Dal Quor will shift again and change it once more. Thats my theory anyway. It's a fine theory that I've seen before. The only issue is that Elves don't dream.
Toloran 10-07-07, 04:19 PM	Hmm... True. I always forget that. Well, that doesn't hurt the theory, just lessens it a bit.
Edymnion 10-08-07, 08:38 PM	So, can we safely assume they were the "good" Quori?No, we can't. Even if we want to assume that the plane always has a normal alignment, it could just as easily have been Neutral, or it could have also been evil. It could be cyclical, going Good -> Neutral -> Evil -> Good... or it could be random, or it could be non-aligned and its simply an oddity that the entire plane is overall the same this time around. We can't really assume though that the last one was good just because this one is evil.
Kaizer_Ryu 10-08-07, 09:00 PM	We can't really assume though that the last one was good just because this one is evil.On a similar note, it could be that the Quori that invaded Xendric, be they good, evil, spoon, or Forgotten Freedom in outlook, were trying to accomplish the very same thing the current day Quori are. Just in a much more straight forward way. Or they might have been fleeing the apparent turning of the age. Either makes a cool campaign idea I may have to use. :D
dang 10-09-07, 03:56 AM	maybe my views have been corrupted by novels, but i'm not sure that the quori of the previous age "invaded" xen'drik, so much as tried to colonize and were attacked. the giants were pretty nasty, after all (slave-holding bullies) so yes, i agree with the theory that it cycles good/evil, or perhaps good/evil/neutral, but we haven't seen neutral yet. (it could even be that the inspired are unwittingly accelerating the change by sending the Riedran masses pleasant dreams to keep them docile.) so an age of mostly pleasant dreams, followed by nightmares, followed by... weird and awkward dreams? (that's how most of mine are, anywho.) sidenote: interesting that the elves could have served as the perfect slave soldiers in the quori/giant wars -- could also be how they managed to put together enough weapons and magic to escape and attack their weakened masters -- a combined coup d'etat/slave revolt.
Vharuck 10-09-07, 04:38 PM	Isn't the current Dal Quor in the third cycle? That means that there was another Dal Quor before and different from the one which the Quori fled to invade the giants. So maybe it is Good (first cycle) -> Neutral (invasion cycle) -> Evil (current cycle)
OrionArisen 10-12-07, 11:55 AM	Who says it was the Quori who initially invaded the Giants? Maybe the Giants did something to really tick the Quori off?
LivingShadow 10-12-07, 05:04 PM	Being a somewhat mutable realm maybe it's possible that the quori mutated getting darker and more evil as the dark cycle nears its end. Along that theory it is possible for the quori that Shira encountered were evil but not as evil as the ones at the current time.
Zahrah 10-16-07, 08:19 PM	I've been putting a lot of thought into using the Dreaming Dark as a villain in my campaign and I came up with a few cool ideas. Back when the giants rules Xendric the elves and drow DID dream, when the giants unleashed the catastrophic magic that threw Dal Quor away from Eberron they did so at the cost of the dreams of all on Xendric. I was also thinking that perhaps the giants had ripped Dal Quor into two pieces. The large piece was to remain Dal Quor, forever stuck in a remote orbit to Eberron. The small piece, the part with the dreams of Xendric bound in it remained in a coterminous, but hugely fast orbit, so fast does it orbit that it is VERY hard to travel between Eberron and Lesser Dal Quor, somewhat like trying to step onto a speeding train. Anyway, that's just some weird thoughts I had while sitting up far too late.
ZeroSD 10-19-07, 05:26 PM	It could be they were evil, but different on the law/chaos spectrum, and what would horrify the old Quori is how regimented and controlled the new ones are, whereas mortals of Eberron would still consider them evil nightmares. Just more free-spirited evil nightmares.