Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Atch 06-02-05, 01:25 PM	A long time ago in a comic/gaming store now far far away, I purchased Against the Giants with the hope that someday I could play or DM it. Time passed and I forgot about the campaign until I started to look for something to continue the Four adventures of Eberron with. Currently, my group is working on Whispers of the Vampires Blade and I looking once again into the future. While sitting in my fortress of solitude on my porcelain throne, I had the idea of merging "Against the Giants" with Eberron. Now, I don't know much about "Against the Giants" except that it involves a land ravaged by invading Giants because I didn't want to spoil anything in case I ever found a DM to play it. I thought about having the party members fall back in time to a place when Xen'drik based Giants invaded Khorvaire but the idea sounded "labor-intensive." Instead, I thought about having a group of giants who like their servants forsaw a need for an exodus and instead of heading to an island carried themselves into the future via another plane or a powerful magic explusion. I felt that the Giants realized that there would not be a place for them to retreat to and instead fled to a time when the world would be weakest to their return, i.e. after the Great War. The issue is that not only are the Giants invading but the dragons want them destroyed because the job should have been done in the past. Enter in the group of adventurers charged with not only defending the land(s) but also eradicating the Giants and any magicial knowledge they posess. My goal is to create a plot "slip-knot" that once started, upon completion, can return the campaign setting back to a resemblance of its original design. :plotting: What I am asking from greater minds then mine is if this idea seems feasable and practical as far as time and effort go (have a full time job and a baby on the way). :twitch:
Korhal_IV 06-02-05, 01:50 PM	I don't know anything about Against the Giants, but it seems to me it wouldn't be difficult to run the module in Eberron without such large-scale adjustments - the giants are still there, they're still fearsome, and intelligent enough to organize and invade if they deem it necessary. For the least setting-adjustment, you could have the PCs end up in Stormport when the giants invade out of the depths of Xen'drik, or you could have a few renegade clans of giants up in the north of Khorvaire (or in Droaam/Darguun on the Brelish border, but I'm sick of Breland already). However, your current plot idea does sound pretty cool. Run with it! :)
talion09 06-02-05, 02:02 PM	Well, aside from having the giants travel through time (time travelling makes a coherent story so much more complex), they could of: A) Travelled to another plane where time travels much more slowly and then returned to Eberron in the current Age. While this doesn't work well enough to have the original giants return, it could be their descendants that return to Khorvaire... they have been watching and waiting from the planes, and now return to strike during the aftermath of the Last War. Why are they invading Khorvaire? Maybe House Cannith or Morgrave University has pieces of an Eldritch Machine that the Giants need to restore their empire, etc... B) Sealed one of their cities in stasis via an Eldritch Machine, which has just been disturbed by adventurers. The Giants are now invading Khorvaire to acquire pieces of an Eldritch Machine held by House Cannith, Morgrave, etc... --- A somewhat simpler idea to convert the adventures would be this. Somewhere on the uncharted southern reaches of Xen'drik, place a small human kingdom. Maybe it was established generations ago by Khorvaire humans fleeing the Last War, just like New Galifar. Or maybe it is a colony of Riedra, the Inspired's version of Stormreach. Or a colony of refugees from Sarlona that fled the Inspired to Xen'drik, perhaps because they were barred/exiled from Adar. Go with whatever backstory you like, but I like the Sarlona ones, since they explain why few if any people in Khorvaire know of this small kingdom. Hey, maybe it is like the mythical kingdom of Prestor John in Africa that the european explorer's were always trying to find. Anyways, all you really need in this small kingdom is a small city, maybe a couple of towns, and the surrounding farmland that has been carved out of the jungle. Surround the kingdom on three sides with mountains and leave the fourth side open to the sea. Suddenly the kingdom has been beset by savage giants coming down from the mountains and raiding in coordinated attacks, a far cry from the usual mischief the barbarians normally cause. The human king sends an envoy via ship to Stormreach in a desperate plea for help from any adventurers who will answer his kingdom's time of need. Rewards will be everlasting gratitude and treasure that the kingdom had plundered from Xen'drik ruins, plus the usual battlefield loot. If your party isn't in Stormreach, then have the call continue on further to Sharn. --- Thats about all you need to do, you could even keep the name of this new kingdom as Sterich and use Istivin as the capital city, just sketch out a new map. And maybe make up some new encounter tables as well, to account for the Xendrik jungles. Just keep in mind that Giants in 3.0/3.5 are much tougher than they were in AD&D.
talion09 06-02-05, 02:35 PM	If you go with my previous idea of creating a new kingdom in Xendrik that gets invaded by the giants, etc... I left out the issue of what is motivating the giants to attack, and how are they coordinating the raids with each other. I have a couple of ideas I could suggest, but basically it boils down to are you just wanting to play "Against the Giants" or are you looking at playing the whole linked series of adventures all the way through the Underdark and confronting Lolth? Obviously playing the giants trilogy on their own is a less complex undertaking, but both are viable in eberron with a little work. I'd suggest having one or more of the "established" factions in Khorvaire be the instigating force in the giant's coordinated attacks. Perhaps the Emerald Claw wants Sterich removed so they can loot Istivin's treasury of all the Xendrik relics? Maybe a faction of House Cannith is after the same goal? If Sterich was composed of refugees from Sarlona, maybe this a game of the Quori to pit their former foes against refugees from their new land? Or this is a plot hatched by a member of the Aurum, who wants the riches of Sterich/Xendrik for himself, and therefore sends agents to instigate the giants, ultimately planning to have the giants turn on each other, thereby paving the way for him to claim the resources and treasure of sterich. Or maybe adventurers accidently set loose an Abberation from Khyber on an expedition to Xen'drik, and this Mindflayer (or Aboleth, etc) has manipulated the giant tribes and is on his way to establishing a new stronghold of the Daelkyr on the ruins of Sterich. This one works even better if it was your own party that did this on an expedition to Xendrik, maybe during the Grasp of the Emerald Claw. You could easily swap the Abberation for a Fiend as well if you wanted to. By having one of the established factions involved in the conflict, it lends itself to having the adventure rise above being a simple hack n slash (IMHO, as fun as it is, it gets a little repetive by the time you get to the Fire Giants) because the party can do a little detective work and maybe some intrigue as well.
LordMelquiades 06-02-05, 10:16 PM	Good stuff Talion. I had been giving occassional thought to this very issue (setting AtG in Eberron), and my thinking had been more along the lines of yours than Atch's. I suppose the drow could still be used, or more accurately, the Umbragen from the recent Dragon mag. Still, the way Eberron gets away from bog-standard drow is so nice, and the umbragen weaken that. Consequently, I'd been thinking rakshasa. Underground? Check. Duplicitous? Check. Easy use of magic? Check. Nefarious schemes spanning centuries, with obscure motives? Check. Plus, you can use the zhakya (sp?) from the ECS as lower CR foes, and in fact there's a half-rakshasa template on Jhonen Olain's Eberron Journal that you could add to, say, hobgoblins (or even elves for a similar feel) for a nice, low-CR bad guy: http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/fiends.html And hey, if you use rakshasa, you get to have fun with shape-changing! Everyone needs a little shape-changing in their game. I wonder - could the giants be threatening Stormreach itself? The geography would need some tinkering, but it avoids creating a new bit of the continent.
talion09 06-03-05, 11:40 PM	Good stuff Talion. I had been giving occassional thought to this very issue (setting AtG in Eberron), and my thinking had been more along the lines of yours than Atch's. I suppose the drow could still be used, or more accurately, the Umbragen from the recent Dragon mag. Still, the way Eberron gets away from bog-standard drow is so nice, and the umbragen weaken that. Consequently, I'd been thinking rakshasa. Underground? Check. Duplicitous? Check. Easy use of magic? Check. Nefarious schemes spanning centuries, with obscure motives? Check. Plus, you can use the zhakya (sp?) from the ECS as lower CR foes, and in fact there's a half-rakshasa template on Jhonen Olain's Eberron Journal that you could add to, say, hobgoblins (or even elves for a similar feel) for a nice, low-CR bad guy: http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/fiends.html And hey, if you use rakshasa, you get to have fun with shape-changing! Everyone needs a little shape-changing in their game. I wonder - could the giants be threatening Stormreach itself? The geography would need some tinkering, but it avoids creating a new bit of the continent. Thanks. Yeah, I had stayed away from suggesting the Drow as the instigators, b/c while I personally like drow, they are overused, especially in comparison to the other eberron monsters we have access to. Same reason why I'm trying to stay away from the Emerald Claw/Blood of Vol as bad guys in my own campaign, they are just a little over-exposed after playing through the official trilogy, and we have so many more options in the ECS alone... I hadn't thought much about Stormreach as the equivalent of Istivin/Sterich. I kinda assumed that since the Dragonmark Houses have substantial interests there, that any threat would be dealt with fairly easily, especially now that the Last War is over. Of course if the players were to be the champions of the Dragonmark Houses (or merc's hired by them), then that does fit with my conception of Stormreach. So using Stormreach as the center of the campaign, and substituting the Dragonmark Houses for the King of Sterich does work pretty well, and you have the benefit of tying the adventure more tightly to the rest of eberron, plus you don't have to go through the effort of creating a whole new area. --- Now that I'm thinking about this, I am tempted to toss it into my campaign, at least as an option if the PC's want to pursue it... I have to say that the Greyhawk adventure path that started with "Temple of Elemental Evil", continued with "Against the Slave Lords" and then wrapped up with "Against the Giants" and the "Queen of the Demon-Web", has to be one of my favorite campaigns for any setting. Off the top of my head, I've played/Dm'd through all or part of that adventure path in pretty much every edition of DnD, from AD&D on. And my players obviously like it too, since one of my players commented on this thread to me in person today, and was asking if I was serious about 'porting it over to Eberron... but I think I have too many other plots going on in my campaign, but maybe later...
Errant 06-04-05, 01:30 PM	Mention of the rakshasas as instigators made me wonder why not set the giants' lairs in the fringes of the Demon Wastes? I imagine if the rakshasas did manage to dominate a few clans of giants as the united force, sending them into the Eldeen Reaches in search of slaves and loot, they would pose a serious threat. Looking at the map on p.161 of the ECS surely there are icy heights in the "Ice"horn Mountains, and volcanic reaches around the "Lake of Fire". Natural progressions from a hill giants' stockade set up as a staging area in the western Eldeen Reaches. Hmmm, I've been wondering what sort of adventures I could run in that region. :cool:
LordMelquiades 06-06-05, 07:42 PM	Interesting. I had been thinking Xen'Drik 'cos of the whole giants thing (and also it's an excuse to run something based there), but really it doesn't matter provided it fits, and the best fit is the goal here. I wonder if the original follow-on drow modules would work, with the Demon Wastes as the underdark substitute? I don't know the D modules well enough. It would require a fair bit of work though, dull work converting stat blocks etc. Going back to Stormreach as the setting, the PCs could be the 'champions' of various DMHs, the result of a large number of meetings and decisions around what to do with this new problem. Building a party around a loose alliance with an overall unifying goal is always attractive, as you can chuck in conflicting secondary agenda etc. I take your point about the DMHs sorting this issue out themselves, but assuming a group at least at the high-end of mid-levels as suitable for G1-3 (say 10th to begin with), then the PCs do represent an appropriate response to the problem. Pulling these two together, setting the G series in Xen'Drik and then the D series in the Demon Wastes might still work, Eberron's easier travel options overcoming the need for geographical closeness. So the PCs butcher their way through the giants, only to discover the nefarious influence of the Lords of Dust, so head over the the Wastes... Talion - I note with interest your comment about the Slave Lords ("Mmmmmmmm, Slaaaave Loooords"). The primary plot-line of my next game (currently in the never-never, but it's always good to plan, right?) is the Freeport modules leading to the Slave Lords - so N'Tal in the Freeport modules is a Slave Lord, leading the party to investigate on the mainland. I had planned ot change Eldralve from a drow to a rakshasa, which could then lead in someway to the giants.... Melq