"Modern" Food in Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Modern" Food in Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edymnion
03-25-06, 04:03 PM Just how much of what we would consider to be modern day food would you see being appropriate in Eberron?

By modern day, I mean things like chocolate, hard candies, maybe tomato based foods like red pasta sauce, etc.

I know I have a faerun character with a bag full of hard candies, and I was half thinking "I wonder if any of my characters would enjoy pocky?" Of course, thats when my sense of history kicks in and goes "Cocoa is a new world plant, it didn't exist in mideival europe!" Of course, then conspiracy mode kicks in and I remember the cocaine mummies of Egypt, when cocaine is a new world product as well. Then my gamer brain kicks in and goes "Who cares how it went down in the real world, could it happen in the game?"

So, other than a look into my convoluted thinking patterns, what do you think? Are Eberron elites munching on chocolate bars?
Joni-san
03-25-06, 05:07 PM I would have no problem with chocolate, it could be taken from Xen'Drik and grown in Khorvaire.

Tomato sauce? Easy, mushing the things would certaintly happen.

When you get a new food it's not hard to imagine that you'd try many ways of preparing it.
ArcTan
03-25-06, 05:27 PM Wait... but Khorvaire *isn't medieval Europe*.

This isn't a problem at all. There's no reason that just because this fantasy continent in a fantasy world looks, in some ways, like medieval Europe -- which Khorvaire isn't really that similar to anyway -- shouldn't have a root vegetable analogous to potatoes in our world just because our medieval Europe did have potatoes. Or that they *should* have strawberries just because our medieval Europe did have strawberries. There's no reason why cacao can't be a native plant that Khorvaire has had for generations and have strawberries be the exotic import from Xen'drik.
ArcTan
03-25-06, 05:32 PM My problem wouldn't be with the existence or nonexistence of certain plants -- there is absolutely no reason tomatoes, or a fruit exactly like a tomato, can't exist in Khorvaire -- but certain kinds of foods that it takes certain economic or technological conditions to make.

The reason boiled sweets (hard candies) weren't invented until the 19th century in our world isn't because the technology behind them is particularly hard to invent, but because only until the 19th century would sugar be common and cheap enough to make foods like that that would be worth selling. If Khorvaire has boiled sweets, it's because whatever plant they use to make sugar is capable of producing lots and lots and lots of sugar for the common market. Which either means a plantation economy somewhere (which I can't really picture given the campaign setting) or a way of getting sugar out of plants that's a lot more efficient than what they had in medieval Europe. Either way, of course, the wide-magic setting helps a lot -- maybe it's a lot easier to grow sugar cane or beets in a temperate climate with the use of druidic magic or easier to refine sugar with the existence of prestidigitation or fabrication spells or whatnot.
Bluebrush
03-25-06, 06:09 PM No only real foods, but consider the unreal foods possible!

We already know the gnomes use prestigiation to make water (subtly) taste like things you've never imbided before.
Can house Ghallandra make smoked dinosaur seasoned with brain tinglingly artificial flavours?
What do the orcs of the shadow marches drink?
Does the alien food of the dalkyr taste like screaming?
Do the angels of Syrania drink Celestial beer?
Esgay
03-26-06, 04:21 PM ...
Does the alien food of the dalkyr taste like screaming?
...
Reminds me of the simpsons
"how does it taste Ralph? Good?"
"It tastes like... burning..."
Lord_Cabby
03-26-06, 06:18 PM I see no problem with chocolate and whatnot being in Eberron. I imagine anything that existed in the early 20th century is in my Eberron. Shoot, my Eberron has cigarettes!
Edymnion
03-26-06, 06:49 PM What about other modern foods?
If you allow tomatoes, do you allow tomatoe sauce and pasta? Aka, spheghetti? Or bread, tomatoe sauce, and cheese, aka a piza?
Splendide
03-26-06, 07:15 PM The best rule of Eberron is that if you want it there, its there.
Flame_Drake
03-26-06, 09:56 PM I personally have placed both pastas and pizzas as Audairian foods although other types of pastas can be found throughout the Five Nations. As a rule of thumb I've deemed that All fruits and vegtables can either be found in Khorvaire or easily imported from Xen'drik or Sarlona.

This question was actully one of the reasons I kept clamouring for a Dragonshard on the Foods of Khorvaire, not that we're ever going to get one now :nonono:

Drake
Fordel
03-27-06, 12:38 AM What about other modern foods?
If you allow tomatoes, do you allow tomatoe sauce and pasta? Aka, spheghetti? Or bread, tomatoe sauce, and cheese, aka a piza?

Aslong as it isn't a shrinkwrapped twinkie, it's probably safe to have it on the menu in Eberron. Heck, take away the shrinkwrap and I'd allow the twinkies :eek:
dang
03-27-06, 04:21 AM The best rule of Eberron is that if you want it there, its there.

:gah: don't say that to edymnion!! :gah:

he hates that rule!

but anywho, i mos def think modern food could exist! mix magic with khorvaire's immigrant cultures, and you'd have aerenal curry, sarlonan bi bim bop, and the demon waste's fiendishly hot salsa! :devil:

and i think sharn should definitely have seedy diners with servers barking "what'll it be," and bussing out rothburgers while flirting with noirish inquisitives.

my vote is do anything that lends flavor to a campaign. AH! punny.
Splendide
03-27-06, 05:03 AM "I'll have the Trolanport shrimp, thanks."
"I'm sorry sir, its out of season."
"I meant the gnome!" *BOOM BOOM*

Re: Sharn diners, I would expect it most food vendors would need to be mobile.

Looking at the map of Khorvaire, Cyre would've had some absolutely excellent farmland. Given their reputation for culture and such in Eberron, I imagine that Cyran-style cooking would these days be a pretty good refugee profession.
NathanD
03-27-06, 09:31 AM Re: Sharn diners, I would expect it most food vendors would need to be mobile.

Does anyone remember the noodle cart in the movie fifth element?
DoveArrow
03-27-06, 12:12 PM Personally, I think there should be an airship McDonald's Drive-Thru in every major city in Khorvaire. Of course, that's just my two cents. :P
Siran Dunmorgan
03-27-06, 12:46 PM What?

None of you have seen this thread?

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=585368

—Siran Dunmorgan

P. S. In my Eberron, chocolate is native to the jungles of Zilargo, and forms a major export from that country.

Sugar cane is native to Aerenal. Sugar cane fields were established in the region that is now Valenar during the original elvish colonization in the Dhakaani era. Sugar addiction played a major—though subtle—rôle in the friction between the goblinoids and the elves in those days, and was partially responsible for the war that ended with the abandonment of the elvish colony.

Much of the institution of slavery as practiced in Darguun today has its roots in sucriculture, with vast plantations working to produce sugar to satisfy the sweet tooth of the Darguul warlords. Sadly, most of the sugar, molasses, and rum presently produced in Darguun is also consumed there; little if any is exported.

The principal exporter of sugar and sugar products in Galifar was, of course, Cyre, whose chocolatiers rivaled the Zil. Many consider the loss of the cane fields of southern Cyre—both in the Mourning, and to the Darguul—to be the greatest tragedy of the Last War; prices for raw sugar and for candies of any kind remain high due to their scarcity.

Since the War, several enterprising scions of Ghallanda and Lyrandar have developed a growing sugar industry in Valenar; it remains to be seen whether they will be able to replace the production of the original Cyran plantations.

A few others have made trial of growing sugar cane in Q'barra and some of the islands of southern Lhazaar, but have so far met with little success. A few Zil have also made the attempt to produce a local sugar crop, with mixed results; their efforts so far have concentrated on breeding smaller, more manageable stalks.

In its native Aerenal there are numerous varieties of sugar cane: some of them are highly addictive, others hallucinogenic, and still others provide a temporary bonus to strength or constitution, along with a corresponding penalty to wisdom. Varieties of rum made from specific Aereni sugars are sought after by the wealthy of Khorvaire; Aereni rum is also a favorite prize of Seren pirates.

—SD
Kreistor1
03-27-06, 02:29 PM Modern Cooking began sometime during the Renaissance period. With wider access to spices from the Orient, an expanding middle class to afford larger scale shipping efforts, and ever increasing free time (which lead to the social dinner), food experimentation began with furvor.

If you decide that Soarwood and Elemental vessels increase the capacity of food stuffs being moved from one nation to another, then increased food experimentation is inevitable. S:CoT clearly includes many restaurants one would say has a "chef", and so for me, yes, wide scale food experimentation began before even the Last War kicked into high gear. So, yes, similar concepts to multi-course meals, dessert, afternoon tea, and every other modern food invention exists. I play my Eberron with an 1800's flavour, so of course advanced food perparation techniques are present in my Eberron.
Cutlass
03-27-06, 09:01 PM I don't think that there's anything so inherently difficult about making pasta that it would be unreasonable to expect the natives of Eberron to have pasta. Also IIRC, tomatoes didn't catch on in Europe for quite a while because it was mistakenly believed that tomatoes were poisonous. Given the reasonably widespread access to magic capable of detecting poisons I can't see that sort of thing persisting in Eberron. So, there's no reason why there couldn't be all sorts of tomato based sauces available.

I would even go so far as to say that the "wide magic" stipulated for Eberron could imply that there was enough access to things capable of generating a "ray of frost" effect that ice cream might be available. Probably relatively expensive but still findable as a dessert at some of the high end restaurants.
superdeadsmurf
03-28-06, 12:10 AM I like the idea of sugar cane being native to Aerenal and cocoa to Zilargo, I don't know why.

What I'm thinking is perhaps setting up a sugar rivalry between Q'barra and Breland in establishing sugar plantations.
Q'barra attempting to set up slave plantations, originally using the natives (ie: captured lizardfolk) and when the lixardfolk become very dangerous and have a slave revolt or two, begin dealing with Darguul slave traders.

Breland will establish plantations in northern Xen'drik near storm-reach attempting to use a system of indentured servitude (a person signs on for 7 year period of near slavery/low wages, then when the servitude is over they become landowners in their own right.) These landed planters are insatialble need of workers, seeking men from anywhere, even if it means kidnapping men off the streets of sharn, or dealing with the Inspired to import sarlonan labour.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 03-25-06, 04:03 PM	Just how much of what we would consider to be modern day food would you see being appropriate in Eberron? By modern day, I mean things like chocolate, hard candies, maybe tomato based foods like red pasta sauce, etc. I know I have a faerun character with a bag full of hard candies, and I was half thinking "I wonder if any of my characters would enjoy pocky?" Of course, thats when my sense of history kicks in and goes "Cocoa is a new world plant, it didn't exist in mideival europe!" Of course, then conspiracy mode kicks in and I remember the cocaine mummies of Egypt, when cocaine is a new world product as well. Then my gamer brain kicks in and goes "Who cares how it went down in the real world, could it happen in the game?" So, other than a look into my convoluted thinking patterns, what do you think? Are Eberron elites munching on chocolate bars?
Joni-san 03-25-06, 05:07 PM	I would have no problem with chocolate, it could be taken from Xen'Drik and grown in Khorvaire. Tomato sauce? Easy, mushing the things would certaintly happen. When you get a new food it's not hard to imagine that you'd try many ways of preparing it.
ArcTan 03-25-06, 05:27 PM	Wait... but Khorvaire isn't medieval Europe. This isn't a problem at all. There's no reason that just because this fantasy continent in a fantasy world looks, in some ways, like medieval Europe -- which Khorvaire isn't really that similar to anyway -- shouldn't have a root vegetable analogous to potatoes in our world just because our medieval Europe did have potatoes. Or that they should have strawberries just because our medieval Europe did have strawberries. There's no reason why cacao can't be a native plant that Khorvaire has had for generations and have strawberries be the exotic import from Xen'drik.
ArcTan 03-25-06, 05:32 PM	My problem wouldn't be with the existence or nonexistence of certain plants -- there is absolutely no reason tomatoes, or a fruit exactly like a tomato, can't exist in Khorvaire -- but certain kinds of foods that it takes certain economic or technological conditions to make. The reason boiled sweets (hard candies) weren't invented until the 19th century in our world isn't because the technology behind them is particularly hard to invent, but because only until the 19th century would sugar be common and cheap enough to make foods like that that would be worth selling. If Khorvaire has boiled sweets, it's because whatever plant they use to make sugar is capable of producing lots and lots and lots of sugar for the common market. Which either means a plantation economy somewhere (which I can't really picture given the campaign setting) or a way of getting sugar out of plants that's a lot more efficient than what they had in medieval Europe. Either way, of course, the wide-magic setting helps a lot -- maybe it's a lot easier to grow sugar cane or beets in a temperate climate with the use of druidic magic or easier to refine sugar with the existence of prestidigitation or fabrication spells or whatnot.
Bluebrush 03-25-06, 06:09 PM	No only real foods, but consider the unreal foods possible! We already know the gnomes use prestigiation to make water (subtly) taste like things you've never imbided before. Can house Ghallandra make smoked dinosaur seasoned with brain tinglingly artificial flavours? What do the orcs of the shadow marches drink? Does the alien food of the dalkyr taste like screaming? Do the angels of Syrania drink Celestial beer?
Esgay 03-26-06, 04:21 PM	... Does the alien food of the dalkyr taste like screaming? ... Reminds me of the simpsons "how does it taste Ralph? Good?" "It tastes like... burning..."
Lord_Cabby 03-26-06, 06:18 PM	I see no problem with chocolate and whatnot being in Eberron. I imagine anything that existed in the early 20th century is in my Eberron. Shoot, my Eberron has cigarettes!
Edymnion 03-26-06, 06:49 PM	What about other modern foods? If you allow tomatoes, do you allow tomatoe sauce and pasta? Aka, spheghetti? Or bread, tomatoe sauce, and cheese, aka a piza?
Splendide 03-26-06, 07:15 PM	The best rule of Eberron is that if you want it there, its there.
Flame_Drake 03-26-06, 09:56 PM	I personally have placed both pastas and pizzas as Audairian foods although other types of pastas can be found throughout the Five Nations. As a rule of thumb I've deemed that All fruits and vegtables can either be found in Khorvaire or easily imported from Xen'drik or Sarlona. This question was actully one of the reasons I kept clamouring for a Dragonshard on the Foods of Khorvaire, not that we're ever going to get one now :nonono: Drake
Fordel 03-27-06, 12:38 AM	What about other modern foods? If you allow tomatoes, do you allow tomatoe sauce and pasta? Aka, spheghetti? Or bread, tomatoe sauce, and cheese, aka a piza? Aslong as it isn't a shrinkwrapped twinkie, it's probably safe to have it on the menu in Eberron. Heck, take away the shrinkwrap and I'd allow the twinkies :eek:
dang 03-27-06, 04:21 AM	The best rule of Eberron is that if you want it there, its there. :gah: don't say that to edymnion!! :gah: he hates that rule! but anywho, i mos def think modern food could exist! mix magic with khorvaire's immigrant cultures, and you'd have aerenal curry, sarlonan bi bim bop, and the demon waste's fiendishly hot salsa! :devil: and i think sharn should definitely have seedy diners with servers barking "what'll it be," and bussing out rothburgers while flirting with noirish inquisitives. my vote is do anything that lends flavor to a campaign. AH! punny.
Splendide 03-27-06, 05:03 AM	"I'll have the Trolanport shrimp, thanks." "I'm sorry sir, its out of season." "I meant the gnome!" BOOM BOOM Re: Sharn diners, I would expect it most food vendors would need to be mobile. Looking at the map of Khorvaire, Cyre would've had some absolutely excellent farmland. Given their reputation for culture and such in Eberron, I imagine that Cyran-style cooking would these days be a pretty good refugee profession.
NathanD 03-27-06, 09:31 AM	Re: Sharn diners, I would expect it most food vendors would need to be mobile. Does anyone remember the noodle cart in the movie fifth element?
DoveArrow 03-27-06, 12:12 PM	Personally, I think there should be an airship McDonald's Drive-Thru in every major city in Khorvaire. Of course, that's just my two cents. :P
Siran Dunmorgan 03-27-06, 12:46 PM	What? None of you have seen this thread? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=585368 —Siran Dunmorgan P. S. In my Eberron, chocolate is native to the jungles of Zilargo, and forms a major export from that country. Sugar cane is native to Aerenal. Sugar cane fields were established in the region that is now Valenar during the original elvish colonization in the Dhakaani era. Sugar addiction played a major—though subtle—rôle in the friction between the goblinoids and the elves in those days, and was partially responsible for the war that ended with the abandonment of the elvish colony. Much of the institution of slavery as practiced in Darguun today has its roots in sucriculture, with vast plantations working to produce sugar to satisfy the sweet tooth of the Darguul warlords. Sadly, most of the sugar, molasses, and rum presently produced in Darguun is also consumed there; little if any is exported. The principal exporter of sugar and sugar products in Galifar was, of course, Cyre, whose chocolatiers rivaled the Zil. Many consider the loss of the cane fields of southern Cyre—both in the Mourning, and to the Darguul—to be the greatest tragedy of the Last War; prices for raw sugar and for candies of any kind remain high due to their scarcity. Since the War, several enterprising scions of Ghallanda and Lyrandar have developed a growing sugar industry in Valenar; it remains to be seen whether they will be able to replace the production of the original Cyran plantations. A few others have made trial of growing sugar cane in Q'barra and some of the islands of southern Lhazaar, but have so far met with little success. A few Zil have also made the attempt to produce a local sugar crop, with mixed results; their efforts so far have concentrated on breeding smaller, more manageable stalks. In its native Aerenal there are numerous varieties of sugar cane: some of them are highly addictive, others hallucinogenic, and still others provide a temporary bonus to strength or constitution, along with a corresponding penalty to wisdom. Varieties of rum made from specific Aereni sugars are sought after by the wealthy of Khorvaire; Aereni rum is also a favorite prize of Seren pirates. —SD
Kreistor1 03-27-06, 02:29 PM	Modern Cooking began sometime during the Renaissance period. With wider access to spices from the Orient, an expanding middle class to afford larger scale shipping efforts, and ever increasing free time (which lead to the social dinner), food experimentation began with furvor. If you decide that Soarwood and Elemental vessels increase the capacity of food stuffs being moved from one nation to another, then increased food experimentation is inevitable. S:CoT clearly includes many restaurants one would say has a "chef", and so for me, yes, wide scale food experimentation began before even the Last War kicked into high gear. So, yes, similar concepts to multi-course meals, dessert, afternoon tea, and every other modern food invention exists. I play my Eberron with an 1800's flavour, so of course advanced food perparation techniques are present in my Eberron.
Cutlass 03-27-06, 09:01 PM	I don't think that there's anything so inherently difficult about making pasta that it would be unreasonable to expect the natives of Eberron to have pasta. Also IIRC, tomatoes didn't catch on in Europe for quite a while because it was mistakenly believed that tomatoes were poisonous. Given the reasonably widespread access to magic capable of detecting poisons I can't see that sort of thing persisting in Eberron. So, there's no reason why there couldn't be all sorts of tomato based sauces available. I would even go so far as to say that the "wide magic" stipulated for Eberron could imply that there was enough access to things capable of generating a "ray of frost" effect that ice cream might be available. Probably relatively expensive but still findable as a dessert at some of the high end restaurants.
superdeadsmurf 03-28-06, 12:10 AM	I like the idea of sugar cane being native to Aerenal and cocoa to Zilargo, I don't know why. What I'm thinking is perhaps setting up a sugar rivalry between Q'barra and Breland in establishing sugar plantations. Q'barra attempting to set up slave plantations, originally using the natives (ie: captured lizardfolk) and when the lixardfolk become very dangerous and have a slave revolt or two, begin dealing with Darguul slave traders. Breland will establish plantations in northern Xen'drik near storm-reach attempting to use a system of indentured servitude (a person signs on for 7 year period of near slavery/low wages, then when the servitude is over they become landowners in their own right.) These landed planters are insatialble need of workers, seeking men from anywhere, even if it means kidnapping men off the streets of sharn, or dealing with the Inspired to import sarlonan labour.