Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DBlizzard 11-22-06, 04:00 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberron/957287200 ------------------------- The Forge of War Eberron Campaign Supplement James Wyatt, Wolfgang Baur, Ari Marmell Secrets of the Last War revealed, plus new character options for war-torn heroes! Explore the battles, campaigns, and heroes of the Last War with this richly detailed 160-page Eberron supplement. Add historical detail to campaigns set in Eberron’s present day, or send adventurers hurtling through time to avert the disaster of the Day of Mourning! The Forge of War includes a comprehensive outline of the course of the war, extensive new character options for war-torn heroes, a variety of campaign options, and detailed descriptions of military forces, fortresses, and battlefields. Item Code 957287200 Release Date June 2007 Format Hardcover Page Count 160 ISBN 978-0-7869-4153-7 Price $29.95; C$37.95 --------------------------------------- I have to say, this is looking more promising than I initially thought when I first heard the concept. I was thinking this might be the second "skip" Eberron book (after Secrets of Sarlona). However, all three authors are quality, and the blurb really gets my attention.
Jancarius 11-22-06, 04:29 PM	Better not be any stopping the day of Mourning or explanation of what caused it. PS: You double created your topic.
Pallis 11-22-06, 05:06 PM	another reason to look forward to 2007, then... :P I can see a campaign being set up for my gaming group in the long years of the Last War. Bring it on.
Deekin 11-22-06, 05:20 PM	I have nothing for respect for Wolfgang Baur, especialy since he wrote the Alternity Dark*Matter material. (It's some of the best material for running a modern conspicry game)
DBlizzard 11-22-06, 05:49 PM	I have nothing for respect for Wolfgang Baur, especialy since he wrote the Alternity Dark*Matter material. (It's some of the best material for running a modern conspicry game) Yes. I've been involved in both his Patron design projects, and the amount of information gained has been impressive. Plus, the first adventure ("Steam and Brass") will fit pretty well into Eberron with some minor tweaking.
Kemmotar_veon 11-22-06, 08:02 PM	first: :mymy: WHOA! :OMG! Second: if they talk about the last war... the Warriors that died in it... and how it went all around the 100 years of war i keep my first impression... BUT if they give a Reason... a way to stop... or anything about the Mourning that is more than just naming it as an unstoppable force of destrucction the book is crap... Third: if they did something as awful as give a cause to the mourning I will turn my back and denny the existance of this book... just my thoughts...
ChaoticGood 11-23-06, 03:02 AM	RE: Making comments of the "If they give a reason for the Day of Mourning" variety... How many times do they have to say "This is one of the great mysteries of Eberron" before you will stop making it an issue? Even ins Secrets of Xen'drik, there was plenty of room left for DMs to do whatever the heck they feel like with the continent. Even the vaunted "map of Xen'drik" is specifically noted in the book as "suggestions for where to put things." None of their books will ever give specifics stats for the Lord of Blades (LE Ftr 12 is not "specific stats"), nor will they ever reveal the Mark of Death, nor will they ever give a reason for the Mourning. Get over it already! Geez, sometimes you people are as bad as the "4th Edition is coming, WotC is going to make all of our books useless, WTF???" crowd on the main boards... :rolleyes:
ressurrector 11-23-06, 04:03 AM	I'll be looking forward to this personally, since I've got some players whos backstory is as Valenar mercs. Something to help flesh out backstories would be nice. Plus I'm a "splatbook" w***e It's up on Amazon as The Last War (http://www.amazon.com/Last-War-Eberron-Supplement/dp/0786941537/sr=1-1/qid=1164272692/ref=sr_1_1/102-5370175-6542517?ie=UTF8&s=books)
Mr. VanderMeer 11-23-06, 05:14 AM	None of their books will ever give specifics stats for the Lord of Blades (LE Ftr 12 is not "specific stats"), nor will they ever reveal the Mark of Death, nor will they ever give a reason for the Mourning. Get over it already! Geez, sometimes you people are as bad as the "4th Edition is coming, WotC is going to make all of our books useless, WTF???" crowd on the main boards... :rolleyes: Don't be too sure. The specific stats for the Lord of Blades have been printed in Dragon magazine, so who knows what's next. I expect the Mark of Death to be next. Before 2008 we will probably have the exact powers of this Dragonmark. I do not expect the cause for the Mourning to be given in this book, but if it is, I just hope it is good.
Lady Morn 11-23-06, 09:24 AM	...detailed descriptions of military forces... I hope "detailed" doesn't mean excruciating. Write-ups on the more interesting/exotic units and artillery is fine. Knowing how many cooks, armorers and prostitutes each army is dragging around...excessive. :rolleyes:
ieattrollsforbreakfast 11-23-06, 09:27 AM	Don't be too sure. The specific stats for the Lord of Blades have been printed in Dragon magazine, so who knows what's next. I expect the Mark of Death to be next. Before 2008 we will probably have the exact powers of this Dragonmark. I do not expect the cause for the Mourning to be given in this book, but if it is, I just hope it is good. The stats were in Dungeon, rather than Dragon, I think. Oh, and they were in Five Nations as well. I don't expect them to reveal the cause of the Mourning, but I wouldn't be surprised if they addressed the issue with a few suggestions. As for the Mark of Death...if they were going to address it anywhere, it would have been in Dragonmarked. Since it wasn't, I don't expect to see it for a long time (if at all). Forge of War sounds pretty good, though, shame its so far off.
Gilganarz_the_reporter 11-23-06, 07:39 PM	Don't be too sure. The specific stats for the Lord of Blades have been printed in Dragon magazine, so who knows what's next. It has been stated many times that these stats are far from canonical and that they may reprint his stats many times, each time a different way. I think 12th level is a good baseline, being a good enough warrior to kick the a** of just about any soldier he comes across (except for some of the Redcloaks), but there are campaigns where this guy has become a proto-deity of the warforged. Eberron doesn't give you stats, it gives you guidelines.
DBlizzard 11-23-06, 07:40 PM	It has been stated many times that these stats are far from canonical and that they may reprint his stats many times, each time a different way. I 100% agree with this. I just wish the first 3 times they have produced stats for him weren't all the same. They need to actually create different stats in a product to prove they are doing this. His stats are identical in Dungeon, Five Nations and DDM Blood War (although Blood War doesn't include Hilt and Pommel).
ekomega 11-23-06, 08:10 PM	I 100% agree with this. I just wish the first 3 times they have produced stats for him weren't all the same. They need to actually create different stats in a product to prove they are doing this. His stats are identical in Dungeon, Five Nations and DDM Blood War (although Blood War doesn't include Hilt and Pommel). I 100% agree with that. AFAIK, Keith Baker is the only one who has been saying that, not anyone else. As much as I like Keith's work, he doesn't own Eberron. Since he doesn't work for WOTC, they can completely ignore him. And it appears, in this instance, that they have. The LoBster will forever be a fighter 7/artificer 5 (or whatever).
ChaoticGood 11-23-06, 11:31 PM	I just opened up Five Nations and... Wow. How did I miss that??? OK, now I'm a little bit annoyed... How did that get past the R&D guys??
Leonidus 11-23-06, 11:47 PM	I just opened up Five Nations and... Wow. How did I miss that??? OK, now I'm a little bit annoyed... How did that get past the R&D guys?? They never said they would never *do* the LoB. (I don't remember that as one of the 'promises' of Eberron's mysteries. Mourning, sure, Xen'Drik, yah, LoB, uhm, no?) Infact, I want to say the Dungeon article he was in was right near the beginning, if not slightly before the release.
ChaoticGood 11-23-06, 11:59 PM	Oh, don't get me wrong... I'm not saying, "Well that's it, I've been betrayed! To Khyber with Eberron!" I just find it... annoying. The Lord of Blades may not have made the specific list of "Eberron's Unsolved Mysteries," but the fact that multiple theories as to who and what he is have been hinted at across the spectrum of Eberron books certainly gives one that impression. Heck, the minis-game version of him isn't even a "unique" figure, and the ruling theory on that is that they didn't want to quash the theory that the Lord of Blades is more than one warforged! So it seems uncouth to throw down stats for him. But I digress... The real point here is, the cause of the Mourning IS one of those "unsolved mysteries" that made the specific list. Worst case scenario is that WotC publishes a book that presents a variety of scenarios that could have caused the Mourning, and mechanics to make each one work, a la the last books in the old World of Darkness lines. I do sincerely apologize for taking the thread off-topic with my uninformed off-hand comment... :P
Leonidus 11-24-06, 01:20 AM	Actually, while that could be the case, what I read as happening was that they would list what happened *during* the Mourning, rather than what caused it. Like the way it's described that the dead-grey mist spread first out of Metrol, IIRC. What happened here or there, what happened to people in this spot, or what the fleeing crowds observed there, etc. Stuff like that.
ressurrector 11-24-06, 03:01 AM	Just wondering, anyone know why Amazon.com has a different title listed for what is undoubtedly the same book?
ressurrector 11-24-06, 03:02 AM	Sorry, triple post due to internet stupidity
ressurrector 11-24-06, 03:02 AM	Ignore
Mr. VanderMeer 11-24-06, 04:21 AM	Actually, while that could be the case, what I read as happening was that they would list what happened *during* the Mourning, rather than what caused it. Like the way it's described that the dead-grey mist spread first out of Metrol, IIRC. What happened here or there, what happened to people in this spot, or what the fleeing crowds observed there, etc. Stuff like that. That would actually be better. That coupled with a couple of theories on what might have happened (so you can try to stop it and fail because it turned out to be something else) would be welcome.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 11-24-06, 08:59 AM	Just wondering, anyone know why Amazon.com has a different title listed for what is undoubtedly the same book? The titles WotC send to Amazon aren't always set in stone, many have been changed over the years. For example, 'Lords of Madness' first appeared on Amazon as 'Codex Anathema', and 'Stormwrack' as 'Maelstrom'.
miscellany 11-24-06, 07:25 PM	Wowzers this book makes me want to DM in Eb and not just role play in it. Violent Femmes: A little fatter and a whole lot better each year that passes.
Edymnion 11-24-06, 08:49 PM	How many times do they have to say "This is one of the great mysteries of Eberron" before you will stop making it an issue?Every damned time they make a book that touches on the subject. Remember, they also swore up and down for months that 3.5 was just going to be a slight rules update to fix a few things, and the infamous quote "You could sit down with someone playing with the 3.0 and 3.5 rules, and you would never know they weren't using the same rules as you". And we all know the drastic changes 3.5 caused. Aka, promises made on the internet aren't even worth the paper they are written on. When I see a signed contract from the head of WotC saying "We will never publish any material that definatively states the origin or cause of the Mourning in the Eberron Campaign Setting", I will believe them. Until then, I firmly believe that WotC will only keep their promise for as long as they find it financially feasable for them to do so. The instant they think they will be able to make enough money on a book explaining the Mourning, and that they think they will keep enough of the core players on board, I have no doubt what-so-ever that their "promise" will be thrown in the garbage and the book will hit the stands. Remember how fast the "No Subraces" thing hit the crapper.
superdeadsmurf 11-24-06, 11:33 PM	Remember how fast the "No Subraces" thing hit the crapper. I don't see any ice halflings or forest dwarves in the official eberron. The only time subraces have been used they have been suggestions (though the sidebars in the Player's guide unfortunately did not specifically call that out) And the no subraces thing was more a Hellcow thing, not a wotc thing. Not that I ever want to see subraces in official eberron :(
Jancarius 11-25-06, 02:18 AM	I actually used to really like subraces, and then Keith's arguement completly swung me on why they shouldn't exist.
JustX 11-25-06, 03:25 AM	personally, I don't care if they go into vast detail on how the mourning happened or the expiration date on the dreamland or what the gods are really doing. If I wanted to use that idea, I would. If I didn't, I wouldn't. The roleplaying police haven't kicked down my door yet and I freely come us with ideas that don't quite fit. In my Eberron, the Irda exist and their are theories that the Mournland is existing because it's lost it's connection to the positive energy that would normally balance things. They could say that the Mournlands are actually proto Ravenloft before it finally wakes up and decides to screw with Strahd. It doesn't matter. Hell, some people would like to know what actually happened as a point of reference for what might happen. Sometimes revealing a secret makes room for more stories, other times it sucks and a good DM just ignores it or adapts it to serve their purpose. How many DM here have thought of non-elemental powered airship only to realize now that a certain how has people on the look out and trying to stop projects that might allow normals a means to get into the sky? I've still never, in 24 years of gaming, have met anyone that uses everything that has been presented in a book. the moment you open the world to new stories and new characters, it's nolonger cannon and nothing can change that.
Edymnion 11-26-06, 09:21 PM	The only time subraces have been used they have been suggestions (though the sidebars in the Player's guide unfortunately did not specifically call that out)Actually, PGtE presented them not as suggestions but as facts, and the ruling that subraces can get dragonmarks puts them pretty squarely into the canon now. And for the record, the RPGA game officially added Whisper Gnomes to the setting.
ressurrector 11-26-06, 10:04 PM	Players Guide to Eberron...is not one of the better supplements from what i've heard. As such I personally have no issues throwing out anything it says as not fitting the setting. RPGA is a joke.
superdeadsmurf 11-26-06, 11:09 PM	The player's guide is actually awesome in my opinion other than the sidebars of course. And really if someone was going to use the races/subraces detailed in the sidebars, they gave some good places for them most of the time. The sidebars may have come off as canon, but I'm fairly certain they were meant to be suggestions (though not really in an appropriate book) As for the whisper gnome in the RPGA adventure, this is no more canononical than the poster whom has the Irda as an available race in his game; no more canonical than the novel with the mark of death returning.
Thwyvylyn 11-27-06, 02:41 AM	I'm very interested in this whole book and if they ever reveal the "cause" of the Mourning I suspect it would be in the weather balloon category if you get my drift.
Just another user 11-27-06, 03:28 AM	first: :mymy: WHOA! :OMG! Second: if they talk about the last war... the Warriors that died in it... and how it went all around the 100 years of war i keep my first impression... BUT if they give a Reason... a way to stop... or anything about the Mourning that is more than just naming it as an unstoppable force of destrucction the book is crap... Third: if they did something as awful as give a cause to the mourning I will turn my back and denny the existance of this book... just my thoughts... I agree with you if they give one reason for the Mourning, but if they give an half dozen possible reasons (each one with possible sub variation), that I would like.
ChaoticGood 11-28-06, 03:31 AM	I agree with you if they give one reason for the Mourning, but if they give an half dozen possible reasons (each one with possible sub variation), that I would like. Agreed. As for sub-races, I'll have to echo the sentiment that "no sub-races" was a Keith Baker concept. The official word from WotC was, "If it exists on D&D, there is a place for it in Eberron." Heck, that even said that in the ECS, IIRC. I'm not saying that I disagree with Mr. Baker at all, but that wasn't an "official" ruling on the world so much as it was a very popular one. Although, let's be fair, Edy. If there is one subrace that belongs in Eberron, it's the Whisper Gnomes. I mean, the Trust has been around for a long, long time, enforcing the peace and calm of Zilargo. So why wouldn't they breed a secret race of super-gnomes to make their jobs easier? :D
daota 11-28-06, 05:29 PM	*edited out* Note to self: read all posts before talking.
Just another user 11-28-06, 05:57 PM	Although, let's be fair, Edy. If there is one subrace that belongs in Eberron, it's the Whisper Gnomes. I mean, the Trust has been around for a long, long time, enforcing the peace and calm of Zilargo. So why wouldn't they breed a secret race of super-gnomes to make their jobs easier? :D Because the main point of the trust is that any gnome could or could not be a member of the Trust, but if they create whisper gnome as super agents the moment you see one you know that he is a member of the Trust, and then is almost useless, you could hire some Deneith human or some warforged at that point. Unless they create the super gnomes and then let them go rogues, so that they could even turn against you, but that would be very un-Trust-like
Brastan 11-28-06, 07:21 PM	I agree with you if they give one reason for the Mourning, but if they give an half dozen possible reasons (each one with possible sub variation), that I would like.6.5 other reasons? No, I hope to see a full twelve reasons and yet still one real reason that is hidden or some strange half truth combination of the others. Now that would be completely in keeping with the setting's style.
Raziel_Brokodar 11-28-06, 10:16 PM	The stats were in Dungeon, rather than Dragon, I think. Oh, and they were in Five Nations as well. ;)
ChaoticGood 11-28-06, 10:40 PM	Because the main point of the trust is that any gnome could or could not be a member of the Trust, but if they create whisper gnome as super agents the moment you see one you know that he is a member of the Trust, and then is almost useless, you could hire some Deneith human or some warforged at that point. Unless they create the super gnomes and then let them go rogues, so that they could even turn against you, but that would be very un-Trust-like Um... why would they need to look any different than any other Gnomes? This is one of those "adapt it to the setting" things that any good DM could pull off very easily by ignoring any fluff (from a non-setting book, I might add) that doesn't support the world. Unless Gnomes make a habit of demanding a show of dancing lights from one another everytime they meet "to prove you're a Gnome"... I don't see any reason that a reasonably competent DM wouldn't be able to use this idea.
ArcTan 11-30-06, 05:43 AM	Because the main point of the trust is that any gnome could or could not be a member of the Trust, but if they create whisper gnome as super agents the moment you see one you know that he is a member of the Trust, and then is almost useless, you could hire some Deneith human or some warforged at that point. Unless they create the super gnomes and then let them go rogues, so that they could even turn against you, but that would be very un-Trust-like ...Isn't the point of whisper gnomes that it wouldn't be all that easy to tell them apart from regular gnomes by sight? Or that even if it normally is, whisper gnomes' high level of skill with illusions, especially ones who have received training as Trust super-agents, would make it almost impossible to do so?