And the award for the most overlooked house goes to... Phiarlan!? [Archive] - Wizards Community

And the award for the most overlooked house goes to... Phiarlan!? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bentley Mirrorshade
01-28-06, 09:27 AM I have been very fond of the House of Shadow ever since I read the wonderful three-part dragonshard. Combined with the basic info from the ECS and plentiful mentions on the boards, these made me really look forward to all the special treatment the house would inevitably get in the (among the eberronian fans almost revered [rightfully]) Sharn sourcebook. Sharn, home of the Demesne of Shadow, which is viewed as the most important part of the house.The greatest metropolis of Khorvaire with its Menthis Plateau being the center of arts and entertainment known far and wide and unparalelled anywhere in the whole nation! Yes, I could visualise the outstanding performances of the Phiarlan's masterful bards, actors and various other artists! I could feel the otherwordly, almost dreamy atmosphere of the elven enclaves and sensation of the astonishing shows brought to us by none other than Phiarlan dream parlors and shadow weavers! Yes, we're talking about the dynasty which has dominated all the khorvairean arts and entertainment industry for centuries.

So, it was really odd when I started reading the S:CoT sourcebook and found the lack of more concrete approach on this topic. Mhm, a little something on Phiarlan companionship services would be nice... nothing, oh, that doesn't matter. I'm bright enough to tell it's among the more expensive services on the list. Hmm, let's take a look at Entertainment - in the Visitor's Guide chapter. Oh yeah, that's the focus of Ph. (intelligence services aside) Elven goodness, here I come...! But wait, there's not even a mention of the house in there. I felt that something fishy was going on, made a mental note and carried on reading (which was quite enjoyable). Okay, Menthis Plateau (Life in Sharn), let's take a closer look at what are those pointy-eared rascals really up to... Yes, flavourful text about city's splendid theaters and associated NPCs... and no mention of the Entertainer's Guild. All I get is one sidebar on Tyasha, one legendary actress, and all the mentions of the plentiful and talented gnome performers... what? Dragon Towers... no mention of the house enclave, Shae Lias, nothing. Power and politics, the Dragonmarked Houses. I see, there are the four which are most important in Sharn.... Tough luck, House of Shadow not one of them. Apparently the City of Towers is not a hotbed of intrigue, behind-the-scenes machinations, shady characters etc. so it's natural that these elven spies have little influence and limited application there. The beautiful chapter starter apparently lies - there's nothing like that going on ;).

Quickly scanning the book and Mr.Baker's index - there is almost no mention of this old and one of the most influential houses. Well, I admit that repeating how the houses are great and uber in every single sourcebook would be irritating and tedious, but one of the most important integral parts of the world which define the setting deserves at least a few lines here and there. Don't get me wrong, I am quite satisfied with the amount of general info on the house, but it's quite confusing when one source says that dragonmarked houses are everywhere and it's them who make the Eberron go round and other source says that the city's commerce is being run by random (albeit flavourful and well-written) NPCs with no connection to the houses whatsoever... I know, there's only so much you can fit into a book, but a few mentions here and there wouldn't hurt anybody, would they? The lack of these few lines about the connection of Phiarlan and the arts&entertainment establishments in the city makes me feel "yes, their the best in this field, truly the masters, widely know all around the continent, they're just... nowhere to be found...? ".

Maybe the lack of Phiarlan goodness in the sourcebook was the reason why Mr.Baker wrote the dragonshard in the first place. Also note that I don't own any other sourcebooks which may or may not contain untold knowledge on this very topic, but anyway, this lack of connection of some of the setting's ideas to the actual description is something to ponder. After all, this isn't a major issue, tis just something odd I noticed, a diminutive nitpick in an otherwise grand publication. Anybody else feels this way?
Avarius
01-28-06, 10:24 AM Personally, I say "good". I'm getting very tired of seeing the dark shadowy 'cool' villains get the spotlight and the first few books that come out for so many systems these days. I'd much rather be able to tell my players more about the Houses that matter, than know about the schemes of Phiarlan.

Not that they aren't an intruiging House. I'm just glad we didn't get them being shown off first.

Sorry, pet peeve.
Cutlass
01-28-06, 10:46 AM Ahem.

They are the House of Shadow. They're exceptionally good at maintaining a low profile ;)

Seriously, I would like to see a lot more information on all of the Houses. It looks like we may have to wait for a sourcebook devoted specifically to them.
Psionycx
01-28-06, 12:20 PM They would be utterly worthless in their primary business of intelligence and espionage if everyone had their eyes on them all of the time.

Subtlety is their greatest strength. Also, Phiarlan performers are probably meant to be very, very special. Unlike, say the halfling House Ghallandra, the elves of Phiarlan don't seek to control their entire industry (or at least not openly). The fact that Phiarlan performers are such an exceptional (and thus expensive and unusual) commodity is what buys them access to the halls of the rich and powerful of Khorvaire. Any involvement they have in the regular entertainment industry is probably more covert, ownership of theatres, performing troopes and such.

This is probably why they seem so overlooked. As a House their operations are not as overtly commercial as those of houses like Cannith, Orien, Ghallandra or the rest. I mean, if everyone knows that you're a spy, how many upper class people will let you anywhere near them?
Purple Yin
01-28-06, 02:03 PM but everyone would have access to mundane detales on things like: how to organise a perfromance from them, how much it would cost, can they do weekends and evenings?...
Cutlass
01-28-06, 02:40 PM Now, now, you have to remember the basic rule. If you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it. :D
Euangelion
01-28-06, 04:05 PM I'll argue that Medani takes the prize as the most overlooked House in all of the sourcebooks. They're based in Breland, yet there's hardly any mention of them in S:CoT. Deneith gets a lot of press there (for good reason), but Medani is invisible. There are two Phiarlan operatives mentioned in S:CoT, one that you mentioned, and there's another one who indeed runs an expensive escort service. But you're right, it would have been nice to have more information on how the Entertainer's Guild operates in the largest city of Khorvaire.
nastynate
01-28-06, 04:41 PM They did get a series of dragonshards though, which I just so happened to read, a few moments ago. There's some pretty good stuff in there, and they are well worth reading again if you haven't in a while. The House of Shadows is pretty cool, but I don't suppose it would really make much sense if there were detailed NPCs published about them in every sourcebook. It just shouldn't be common knowledge. Spies and assassins tend to keep a low profile, and you wouldn't know if you had actually met one, even if you were talking to him personally.
Splendide
01-28-06, 05:32 PM What a stupid thread title.

House Vadalis anyone? They don't even have a Dragonshard.
Euangelion
01-28-06, 05:56 PM What a stupid thread title.

House Vadalis anyone? They don't even have a Dragonshard.

At least magebred animals are pretty common. Vadalis has an enclave in Sharn which produces pegasi among other things. They also control several towns in the Eldeen Reaches and Breland. Except for a couple of magic items and spells, Medani is basically invisible.
Bentley Mirrorshade
01-28-06, 06:28 PM I'll argue that Medani takes the prize as the most overlooked House in all of the sourcebooks. They're based in Breland, yet there's hardly any mention of them in S:CoT. Deneith gets a lot of press there (for good reason), but Medani is invisible.
True, but Medani is the youngest and the least influential of all the houses. Of course, it would be great to learn more about this intriguing dynasty in future supplements but let's admit it - their not so important to the setting itself. Cannith, Deneith, Phiarlan etc. they all shaped the history of Khorvaire and are an integral part of the setting. Can you imagine Eberron without Cannith's warforged or Deneith's goblins (it's role in the creation of Darguun)? I sure can't. Can you imagine Eberron without Medani? Easily.

House Medani is something I can suddenly drop in to the middle of my campaign without any previous mentions and don't have to worry about how did the world could ever make sense without them being an apparent part of it. I can't do such a thing with the houses which define the world - e.g. after a year long campaign make the warforged race suddenly appear out of thin air, because I simply weren't using Cannith until now... But I can do this with a small, low-profile house like Medani. Not so Phiarlan and it's Entertainer's Guild, which is very important for the culture of Khorvaire as a whole. People may not know much about the Warning Guild (did I get that right?) but they sure have heard about those queer yet astounding elven artists...

That's the reason I perceive Phiarlan (and now I'm not talking about that "villainous", espionage-conducting part of them) as the most overlooked, at least as far as Sharn is concerned.

It would have been nice to have more information on how the Entertainer's Guild operates in the largest city of Khorvaire.
Exactly! :w00t:
Bentley Mirrorshade
01-28-06, 06:43 PM ... Spies and assassins tend to keep a low profile, and you wouldn't know if you had actually met one, even if you were talking to him personally.
Certainly. But not so artists and entertainers... :)

What a stupid thread title.
Really? :( And I thought it was splendid...
Hellcow
01-28-06, 09:04 PM I have been very fond of the House of Shadow ever since I read the wonderful three-part dragonshard... these made me really look forward to all the special treatment the house would inevitably get in the Sharn sourcebook.
Actually, the Dragonshards were written almost ten months after the material for the Sharn sourcebook... so you're looking at things in reverse. From my perspective, one of the reasons TO write those dragonshards was because Phiarlan hadn't been dealt with in Sharn. I'm sad we didn't get to go into more detail, but I'd sad that we haven't had space to discuss any number of houses... as others have noted, the dragonshards alone give Phiarlan more coverage than pretty much any house except Cannith.

With that said, I fully understand the desire for MORE information - I just don't know when you'll get it. I do think that a sourcebook on the dragonmarked houses is such a logical idea that you'll see one eventually... but I don't know when.
Euangelion
01-28-06, 09:54 PM True, but Medani is the youngest and the least influential of all the houses.
Technically, Tharashk is the youngest house, though the Mark of Finding may have been around much longer. Who knows how long is was hiding among the swamps of the Shadow Marches, waiting to be found? :rimshot:
The Fireballed Mage
01-29-06, 01:24 PM It's not official and in no way canon, but some no-talent hack :) wrote up some suggestions on how to use and play the Dragonmark Houses. Something to tide people over until as-yet unknown House book arrives.

I think there might be something on Phiarlan in it.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=442444
Kalanth
01-29-06, 02:33 PM In the past I have played a House Medani Half-Half, and used a House Phialarn Elf as a heroic plot device in another game. Personally I see plenty of use for House Medani, though I recognize that there are other houses that can do what they do better. With house Phialarn, it was an opportunity to use a Scrystone and open the players eyes to some of the interesting things in the world.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bentley Mirrorshade 01-28-06, 09:27 AM	I have been very fond of the House of Shadow ever since I read the wonderful three-part dragonshard. Combined with the basic info from the ECS and plentiful mentions on the boards, these made me really look forward to all the special treatment the house would inevitably get in the (among the eberronian fans almost revered [rightfully]) Sharn sourcebook. Sharn, home of the Demesne of Shadow, which is viewed as the most important part of the house.The greatest metropolis of Khorvaire with its Menthis Plateau being the center of arts and entertainment known far and wide and unparalelled anywhere in the whole nation! Yes, I could visualise the outstanding performances of the Phiarlan's masterful bards, actors and various other artists! I could feel the otherwordly, almost dreamy atmosphere of the elven enclaves and sensation of the astonishing shows brought to us by none other than Phiarlan dream parlors and shadow weavers! Yes, we're talking about the dynasty which has dominated all the khorvairean arts and entertainment industry for centuries. So, it was really odd when I started reading the S:CoT sourcebook and found the lack of more concrete approach on this topic. Mhm, a little something on Phiarlan companionship services would be nice... nothing, oh, that doesn't matter. I'm bright enough to tell it's among the more expensive services on the list. Hmm, let's take a look at Entertainment - in the Visitor's Guide chapter. Oh yeah, that's the focus of Ph. (intelligence services aside) Elven goodness, here I come...! But wait, there's not even a mention of the house in there. I felt that something fishy was going on, made a mental note and carried on reading (which was quite enjoyable). Okay, Menthis Plateau (Life in Sharn), let's take a closer look at what are those pointy-eared rascals really up to... Yes, flavourful text about city's splendid theaters and associated NPCs... and no mention of the Entertainer's Guild. All I get is one sidebar on Tyasha, one legendary actress, and all the mentions of the plentiful and talented gnome performers... what? Dragon Towers... no mention of the house enclave, Shae Lias, nothing. Power and politics, the Dragonmarked Houses. I see, there are the four which are most important in Sharn.... Tough luck, House of Shadow not one of them. Apparently the City of Towers is not a hotbed of intrigue, behind-the-scenes machinations, shady characters etc. so it's natural that these elven spies have little influence and limited application there. The beautiful chapter starter apparently lies - there's nothing like that going on ;). Quickly scanning the book and Mr.Baker's index - there is almost no mention of this old and one of the most influential houses. Well, I admit that repeating how the houses are great and uber in every single sourcebook would be irritating and tedious, but one of the most important integral parts of the world which define the setting deserves at least a few lines here and there. Don't get me wrong, I am quite satisfied with the amount of general info on the house, but it's quite confusing when one source says that dragonmarked houses are everywhere and it's them who make the Eberron go round and other source says that the city's commerce is being run by random (albeit flavourful and well-written) NPCs with no connection to the houses whatsoever... I know, there's only so much you can fit into a book, but a few mentions here and there wouldn't hurt anybody, would they? The lack of these few lines about the connection of Phiarlan and the arts&entertainment establishments in the city makes me feel "yes, their the best in this field, truly the masters, widely know all around the continent, they're just... nowhere to be found...? ". Maybe the lack of Phiarlan goodness in the sourcebook was the reason why Mr.Baker wrote the dragonshard in the first place. Also note that I don't own any other sourcebooks which may or may not contain untold knowledge on this very topic, but anyway, this lack of connection of some of the setting's ideas to the actual description is something to ponder. After all, this isn't a major issue, tis just something odd I noticed, a diminutive nitpick in an otherwise grand publication. Anybody else feels this way?
Avarius 01-28-06, 10:24 AM	Personally, I say "good". I'm getting very tired of seeing the dark shadowy 'cool' villains get the spotlight and the first few books that come out for so many systems these days. I'd much rather be able to tell my players more about the Houses that matter, than know about the schemes of Phiarlan. Not that they aren't an intruiging House. I'm just glad we didn't get them being shown off first. Sorry, pet peeve.
Cutlass 01-28-06, 10:46 AM	Ahem. They are the House of Shadow. They're exceptionally good at maintaining a low profile ;) Seriously, I would like to see a lot more information on all of the Houses. It looks like we may have to wait for a sourcebook devoted specifically to them.
Psionycx 01-28-06, 12:20 PM	They would be utterly worthless in their primary business of intelligence and espionage if everyone had their eyes on them all of the time. Subtlety is their greatest strength. Also, Phiarlan performers are probably meant to be very, very special. Unlike, say the halfling House Ghallandra, the elves of Phiarlan don't seek to control their entire industry (or at least not openly). The fact that Phiarlan performers are such an exceptional (and thus expensive and unusual) commodity is what buys them access to the halls of the rich and powerful of Khorvaire. Any involvement they have in the regular entertainment industry is probably more covert, ownership of theatres, performing troopes and such. This is probably why they seem so overlooked. As a House their operations are not as overtly commercial as those of houses like Cannith, Orien, Ghallandra or the rest. I mean, if everyone knows that you're a spy, how many upper class people will let you anywhere near them?
Purple Yin 01-28-06, 02:03 PM	but everyone would have access to mundane detales on things like: how to organise a perfromance from them, how much it would cost, can they do weekends and evenings?...
Cutlass 01-28-06, 02:40 PM	Now, now, you have to remember the basic rule. If you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it. :D
Euangelion 01-28-06, 04:05 PM	I'll argue that Medani takes the prize as the most overlooked House in all of the sourcebooks. They're based in Breland, yet there's hardly any mention of them in S:CoT. Deneith gets a lot of press there (for good reason), but Medani is invisible. There are two Phiarlan operatives mentioned in S:CoT, one that you mentioned, and there's another one who indeed runs an expensive escort service. But you're right, it would have been nice to have more information on how the Entertainer's Guild operates in the largest city of Khorvaire.
nastynate 01-28-06, 04:41 PM	They did get a series of dragonshards though, which I just so happened to read, a few moments ago. There's some pretty good stuff in there, and they are well worth reading again if you haven't in a while. The House of Shadows is pretty cool, but I don't suppose it would really make much sense if there were detailed NPCs published about them in every sourcebook. It just shouldn't be common knowledge. Spies and assassins tend to keep a low profile, and you wouldn't know if you had actually met one, even if you were talking to him personally.
Splendide 01-28-06, 05:32 PM	What a stupid thread title. House Vadalis anyone? They don't even have a Dragonshard.
Euangelion 01-28-06, 05:56 PM	What a stupid thread title. House Vadalis anyone? They don't even have a Dragonshard. At least magebred animals are pretty common. Vadalis has an enclave in Sharn which produces pegasi among other things. They also control several towns in the Eldeen Reaches and Breland. Except for a couple of magic items and spells, Medani is basically invisible.
Bentley Mirrorshade 01-28-06, 06:28 PM	I'll argue that Medani takes the prize as the most overlooked House in all of the sourcebooks. They're based in Breland, yet there's hardly any mention of them in S:CoT. Deneith gets a lot of press there (for good reason), but Medani is invisible. True, but Medani is the youngest and the least influential of all the houses. Of course, it would be great to learn more about this intriguing dynasty in future supplements but let's admit it - their not so important to the setting itself. Cannith, Deneith, Phiarlan etc. they all shaped the history of Khorvaire and are an integral part of the setting. Can you imagine Eberron without Cannith's warforged or Deneith's goblins (it's role in the creation of Darguun)? I sure can't. Can you imagine Eberron without Medani? Easily. House Medani is something I can suddenly drop in to the middle of my campaign without any previous mentions and don't have to worry about how did the world could ever make sense without them being an apparent part of it. I can't do such a thing with the houses which define the world - e.g. after a year long campaign make the warforged race suddenly appear out of thin air, because I simply weren't using Cannith until now... But I can do this with a small, low-profile house like Medani. Not so Phiarlan and it's Entertainer's Guild, which is very important for the culture of Khorvaire as a whole. People may not know much about the Warning Guild (did I get that right?) but they sure have heard about those queer yet astounding elven artists... That's the reason I perceive Phiarlan (and now I'm not talking about that "villainous", espionage-conducting part of them) as the most overlooked, at least as far as Sharn is concerned. It would have been nice to have more information on how the Entertainer's Guild operates in the largest city of Khorvaire. Exactly! :w00t:
Bentley Mirrorshade 01-28-06, 06:43 PM	... Spies and assassins tend to keep a low profile, and you wouldn't know if you had actually met one, even if you were talking to him personally. Certainly. But not so artists and entertainers... :) What a stupid thread title. Really? :( And I thought it was splendid...
Hellcow 01-28-06, 09:04 PM	I have been very fond of the House of Shadow ever since I read the wonderful three-part dragonshard... these made me really look forward to all the special treatment the house would inevitably get in the Sharn sourcebook. Actually, the Dragonshards were written almost ten months after the material for the Sharn sourcebook... so you're looking at things in reverse. From my perspective, one of the reasons TO write those dragonshards was because Phiarlan hadn't been dealt with in Sharn. I'm sad we didn't get to go into more detail, but I'd sad that we haven't had space to discuss any number of houses... as others have noted, the dragonshards alone give Phiarlan more coverage than pretty much any house except Cannith. With that said, I fully understand the desire for MORE information - I just don't know when you'll get it. I do think that a sourcebook on the dragonmarked houses is such a logical idea that you'll see one eventually... but I don't know when.
Euangelion 01-28-06, 09:54 PM	True, but Medani is the youngest and the least influential of all the houses. Technically, Tharashk is the youngest house, though the Mark of Finding may have been around much longer. Who knows how long is was hiding among the swamps of the Shadow Marches, waiting to be found? :rimshot:
The Fireballed Mage 01-29-06, 01:24 PM	It's not official and in no way canon, but some no-talent hack :) wrote up some suggestions on how to use and play the Dragonmark Houses. Something to tide people over until as-yet unknown House book arrives. I think there might be something on Phiarlan in it. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=442444
Kalanth 01-29-06, 02:33 PM	In the past I have played a House Medani Half-Half, and used a House Phialarn Elf as a heroic plot device in another game. Personally I see plenty of use for House Medani, though I recognize that there are other houses that can do what they do better. With house Phialarn, it was an opportunity to use a Scrystone and open the players eyes to some of the interesting things in the world.