Another "wich book to buy?" thread (Please answer those questions) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another "wich book to buy?" thread (Please answer those questions) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SSj3goblin
12-28-06, 05:01 PM Like everyone else, I have gotten some christmas money to spend and I have a 15$ credit at my gaming store too.
I would probably like to buy one additional book for now.

The Eberron related books I have are:
Eberron Campaign(sp?) Setting
Five Nations
Races of Eberron*
Secrets of Xen'Drik*
(*Last two books were bought on eBay and I still haven't received them yet, so I haven't read them either yet)

I'm interested by:
Magic of Eberron
Faiths of Eberron
DragonMarked
(I am mostly indiferrent towards Player's guide to Eberron and Explorer's Handbook)
Fiendish Codex II
Expanded psionics handbook

Now, you can help me make a choice, people who have those books will be able to answer my questions and help me make my mind.
So i'm interested in Magic of Eberron because of the new monsters (quori's and homonculis) and the characters options. From what I've heard, this book is not so much just about "new spells" and also listes new additional items, races, monsters and defines the styles of eberronian magic.
Are those "styles" of magic only from a fluff point of view or do they bring new rules/characters options?

Faiths of eberron intereses me because I found the religions of Eberron to be poorly explored in the ECS,especially the Blood of vol and the druidic traditions. Are those themes given a good look in the book?

I'm interested in DragonMarked because I want to give the dragonmarked houses more importance in my games (because for now they only see use when the players need magical healing or use the ligthning train) and all the details given in this book could help me expand on the houses and their role in my game, is the book worth it?

I'm interested in Fiendish codex II mostly because I love fiends, planes and monster books, I think I own all the monsters books save this one. Feedback?

The expanded psionics handbook may not be Eberron related in itself but I plan on buying the Sarlona sourcebooks when it come out so I'd need to have the psionics book. Plus, I've always been curious about psionics and wanted to try them.

Any advice?

Also, should I consider PgtE or the Explorer's handbook? What are they about?
PoeticJustice
12-28-06, 05:39 PM Faiths and Magic of Eberron are almost total losses. Fiendish Codex 2 rocks hard but is very, very incompatible with Eberron. I liked Dragonmarked a lot, but the free version made by Fireballed mage a year ago is just as good.
SSj3goblin
12-28-06, 05:52 PM Could you expand on your critic of Faiths of Eberron?
Also, where could I find this "Dragonmarked" stuff made by Fireballed mage?
mhacdebhandia
12-28-06, 05:58 PM First things first: while Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells is a good book, it's written specifically about the devils who inhabit the Nine Hells of Baator in the default Great Wheel cosmology of D&D - it's not, strictly speaking, compatible with what devils are like in Eberron.

Magic of Eberron does have races: psiforged (psionic warforged) and daelkyr halfbloods (not literally half-daelkyr, but tainted with their essence and carrying an alien symbiont from Xoriat). It has new items, most notably various types of grafts like those found in the Fiend Folio and Lords of Madness.

When it comes to "magical styles", I would say that Magic of Eberron showcases some eccentric or unusual magical traditions: the elemental scion of Zilargo bonds with elementals through elemental grafts, the impure prince uses the daelkyr's symbionts against them and their aberration servants, the renegade mastermaker slowly transforms themselves into a living construct by adding warforged parts to their own body.

My favourite part of Magic of Eberron is not the various spells, feats, items, or prestige classes: it's the first chapter, which takes a closer look at various magical subjects:

Artifice
Elemental binding
Dragonshards
Daelkyr magic
Dragon totem rituals
Psionics (mostly in the context of how the psiforged came about)
Magic of Aerenal
Magic of Karrnath
Eberron organisations (the Finders Guild, the Power of Purity)
I was happy with what I read in Faiths of Eberron, but I think a little more freedom granted to the writers when it came to the structure of each chapter would have improved it. There's been a lot of criticism of the planar shepherd, a druidic prestige class presented in the book, which is not unjustified - taking the pragmatic view, however, the best we can do it house-rule it using common sense and move on.

I would say that the book does flesh out the Blood of Vol and the druidic sects fairly well.

Dragonmarked seems like it would be most useful to a DM running a game with one or more dragonmarked PCs, which is only natural, but it does also expand on exactly what the dragonmarked houses do for Khorvaire, including the small details (for instance, the prices given for items in the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide are identified as the "guild standard" imposed by the dragonmarked houses, with suggestions for how they could vary from other vendors). If you want your PCs more involved with the houses, there isn't a better option than Dragonmarked.

If you want to run adventures in Sarlona, you'll want the Expanded Psionics Handbook. It'll also be very useful if you have a psionic character (such as a kalashtar) among your PCs anyway, or if you want to make use of psionics for the servants of the daeklkyr among the cults of the Dragon Below. It's a really solid, balanced sub-system.

I would describe the Player's Guide to Eberron not as a player's guide (it contains a few too many setting secrets for that) but rather as an encyclopedically-organised complement to all of the setting information in the Eberron Campaign Setting. For instance, I found it an excellent source of information on the Church of the Silver Flame's internal structure and support of adventurers before Faiths of Eberron came out; its character options are quite interesting, especially the Gatekeeper mystagogue prestige class.

It also has some good information on topics not closely-examined in the campaign setting book, such as different monastic traditions. The one downside cited repeatedly on these forums is that there is a lot of information on where various non-core classes and races are to be found in Eberron, where most would prefer that they had merely been suggestions for where they could be found. Even its harshest critics on this score will recommend it for everything else it contains, though.

The Explorer's Handbook is basically a guide to travel in Eberron and exotic locations you might want to travel to. It has details on various types of magically-powered vehicles like lightning rails, airships, stormships, elemental carts, that sort of thing. It has a few interesting character options. Most of the rest of the book is adventure locations, like ruined giant cities in Xen'drik, the elven necropolis of Shae Mordai in Aerenal, et cetera.

Hope that helps.
SSj3goblin
12-28-06, 06:21 PM You answered my questions perfectly, but you made all books look worth the buy!

I still don't know wich one(s) i'll get.
I was thinking about buying two, one as a hardcover and one as a PDF and get it printed in black in white for cheapness.

I'm really interested by Magic of Eberron for now, and i'm hesitating between dragonmarked and Faiths of Eberron...
cancerousmango
12-28-06, 07:19 PM Dragonmarked.
Kaizer_Ryu
12-28-06, 07:44 PM Both are really good, but in different ways. Dragonmarked tends more towards the crunch side, while Faiths tends towards fluff. Each has a good mix IMO, but that's how they lean. I liked both of them, and each expand both roleplaying and mechanics options. It really depends on which element you plan on focusing on more with your character/campaign.
mhacdebhandia
12-29-06, 05:45 AM You answered my questions perfectly, but you made all books look worth the buy!
I'm a prick.

I still don't know wich one(s) i'll get.
I was thinking about buying two, one as a hardcover and one as a PDF and get it printed in black in white for cheapness.
Oh? Where are you buying PDFs of Wizards of the Coast products? They're pretty expensive on DriveThruRPG/RPGNow/OneBookShelf.

I'm really interested by Magic of Eberron for now, and i'm hesitating between dragonmarked and Faiths of Eberron...
I would have picked Faiths of Eberron, but then I have an Honours degree in Studies in Religion - I'm biased.
hcotterson
12-29-06, 06:04 AM I would have picked Faiths of Eberron, but then I have an Honours degree in Studies in Religion - I'm biased.

"Oh look at me, I'm hono[u]rs degree English-boy!" :rolleyes:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
all in good fun, chap :D
mhacdebhandia
12-29-06, 08:11 AM Australian, actually. Though, uh, one of my other two majors was English . . . maybe that counts?

I think Dragonmarked is also an excellent book, but I have my biases.
PoeticJustice
12-29-06, 08:07 PM I realize my arguments may not be as well thought out as everyone else's on this thread, but Magic of Eberron and and Faiths of Eberron were terrible books.
They spent too much time writing about lame material. Honestly, who cares how exactly the elemental binding procedure works? Why spend so much time dissembling the inner meaning of the Octogram and the Hexagram?

Magic-New (lame) Races! Whopee, we're cooking with fire now! You can either play a warforged with chunks of crystal embedded in it or some weirdo with a symbiotic eye. Lame.
Of course, even that's better than the mediocre spell list, hit-and-miss feat list, lame syberis shard items, and misinformed legends about Aerenal. The book had a few good prestige classes, a few cool artificer items, and a few good feats. All around: Sub-par.

Faiths-Better than Magic, but still woefully miswritten. Writing up the Blood of Vol as some kind of inner divinity worshipping cult is fine from a anthropological stand-point. But anthropology has little place in my games. I want to read about the big, bad nasty vamp-worshippers. A little bit of flash would made the thing readable. As is, its a snooze.
Oh yeah, the Blood of Vol section also has INCARNUM material. As if the thing weren't already worthless!
Other issues: The Druid sects weren't developed anywhere close to enough. It feels like somebody spent all of a half hour writing each section. Warforged Gods (+ accompanying Warforged Domain). I don't know why but the concept of constructs worshipping gods has always rubbed me the wrong way.

I could go on, but I think this covers it adequately.
If I were you, I'd get the Explorer's Handbook. Now that there is a book.
Belabras
12-29-06, 10:19 PM I won't offer an opinion on the books other than to say that they are all very good.

In reference to the Expanded Psionic's Handbook, while it is an excellent resource, all the crunch is part of the SRD and can be easily referenced at this site (http://www.d20srd.org/)

Complete Psionic is alright too, but not as good as the XPH
mhacdebhandia
12-29-06, 10:21 PM Why spend so much time dissembling the inner meaning of the Octogram and the Hexagram?
Symbolism is important to all human religions in the real world.

Why would it be less important in a fictional world?

Faiths-Better than Magic, but still woefully miswritten. Writing up the Blood of Vol as some kind of inner divinity worshipping cult is fine from a anthropological stand-point. But anthropology has little place in my games. I want to read about the big, bad nasty vamp-worshippers. A little bit of flash would made the thing readable. As is, its a snooze.
You already have enough information on the Blood of Vol as the big, bad, nasty vampire-worshippers in the core book and other books.

Faiths of Eberron, to my mind, correctly focused on why the majority of people who follow the Blood of Vol do so.

Warforged Gods (+ accompanying Warforged Domain). I don't know why but the concept of constructs worshipping gods has always rubbed me the wrong way.
Seems like an irrational prejudice to me. *shrug*

Of course, I have an irrational bias in favour of an anthropological approach to fictional religions, so I liked Faiths of Eberron a lot. I think knowing why people do things gives rise to many more plot hooks than you could ever write in place of the explanation of why, exactly, they're doing it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SSj3goblin 12-28-06, 05:01 PM	Like everyone else, I have gotten some christmas money to spend and I have a 15$ credit at my gaming store too. I would probably like to buy one additional book for now. The Eberron related books I have are: Eberron Campaign(sp?) Setting Five Nations Races of Eberron* Secrets of Xen'Drik* (*Last two books were bought on eBay and I still haven't received them yet, so I haven't read them either yet) I'm interested by: Magic of Eberron Faiths of Eberron DragonMarked (I am mostly indiferrent towards Player's guide to Eberron and Explorer's Handbook) Fiendish Codex II Expanded psionics handbook Now, you can help me make a choice, people who have those books will be able to answer my questions and help me make my mind. So i'm interested in Magic of Eberron because of the new monsters (quori's and homonculis) and the characters options. From what I've heard, this book is not so much just about "new spells" and also listes new additional items, races, monsters and defines the styles of eberronian magic. Are those "styles" of magic only from a fluff point of view or do they bring new rules/characters options? Faiths of eberron intereses me because I found the religions of Eberron to be poorly explored in the ECS,especially the Blood of vol and the druidic traditions. Are those themes given a good look in the book? I'm interested in DragonMarked because I want to give the dragonmarked houses more importance in my games (because for now they only see use when the players need magical healing or use the ligthning train) and all the details given in this book could help me expand on the houses and their role in my game, is the book worth it? I'm interested in Fiendish codex II mostly because I love fiends, planes and monster books, I think I own all the monsters books save this one. Feedback? The expanded psionics handbook may not be Eberron related in itself but I plan on buying the Sarlona sourcebooks when it come out so I'd need to have the psionics book. Plus, I've always been curious about psionics and wanted to try them. Any advice? Also, should I consider PgtE or the Explorer's handbook? What are they about?
PoeticJustice 12-28-06, 05:39 PM	Faiths and Magic of Eberron are almost total losses. Fiendish Codex 2 rocks hard but is very, very incompatible with Eberron. I liked Dragonmarked a lot, but the free version made by Fireballed mage a year ago is just as good.
SSj3goblin 12-28-06, 05:52 PM	Could you expand on your critic of Faiths of Eberron? Also, where could I find this "Dragonmarked" stuff made by Fireballed mage?
mhacdebhandia 12-28-06, 05:58 PM	First things first: while Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells is a good book, it's written specifically about the devils who inhabit the Nine Hells of Baator in the default Great Wheel cosmology of D&D - it's not, strictly speaking, compatible with what devils are like in Eberron. Magic of Eberron does have races: psiforged (psionic warforged) and daelkyr halfbloods (not literally half-daelkyr, but tainted with their essence and carrying an alien symbiont from Xoriat). It has new items, most notably various types of grafts like those found in the Fiend Folio and Lords of Madness. When it comes to "magical styles", I would say that Magic of Eberron showcases some eccentric or unusual magical traditions: the elemental scion of Zilargo bonds with elementals through elemental grafts, the impure prince uses the daelkyr's symbionts against them and their aberration servants, the renegade mastermaker slowly transforms themselves into a living construct by adding warforged parts to their own body. My favourite part of Magic of Eberron is not the various spells, feats, items, or prestige classes: it's the first chapter, which takes a closer look at various magical subjects: Artifice Elemental binding Dragonshards Daelkyr magic Dragon totem rituals Psionics (mostly in the context of how the psiforged came about) Magic of Aerenal Magic of Karrnath Eberron organisations (the Finders Guild, the Power of Purity) I was happy with what I read in Faiths of Eberron, but I think a little more freedom granted to the writers when it came to the structure of each chapter would have improved it. There's been a lot of criticism of the planar shepherd, a druidic prestige class presented in the book, which is not unjustified - taking the pragmatic view, however, the best we can do it house-rule it using common sense and move on. I would say that the book does flesh out the Blood of Vol and the druidic sects fairly well. Dragonmarked seems like it would be most useful to a DM running a game with one or more dragonmarked PCs, which is only natural, but it does also expand on exactly what the dragonmarked houses do for Khorvaire, including the small details (for instance, the prices given for items in the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide are identified as the "guild standard" imposed by the dragonmarked houses, with suggestions for how they could vary from other vendors). If you want your PCs more involved with the houses, there isn't a better option than Dragonmarked. If you want to run adventures in Sarlona, you'll want the Expanded Psionics Handbook. It'll also be very useful if you have a psionic character (such as a kalashtar) among your PCs anyway, or if you want to make use of psionics for the servants of the daeklkyr among the cults of the Dragon Below. It's a really solid, balanced sub-system. I would describe the Player's Guide to Eberron not as a player's guide (it contains a few too many setting secrets for that) but rather as an encyclopedically-organised complement to all of the setting information in the Eberron Campaign Setting. For instance, I found it an excellent source of information on the Church of the Silver Flame's internal structure and support of adventurers before Faiths of Eberron came out; its character options are quite interesting, especially the Gatekeeper mystagogue prestige class. It also has some good information on topics not closely-examined in the campaign setting book, such as different monastic traditions. The one downside cited repeatedly on these forums is that there is a lot of information on where various non-core classes and races are to be found in Eberron, where most would prefer that they had merely been suggestions for where they could be found. Even its harshest critics on this score will recommend it for everything else it contains, though. The Explorer's Handbook is basically a guide to travel in Eberron and exotic locations you might want to travel to. It has details on various types of magically-powered vehicles like lightning rails, airships, stormships, elemental carts, that sort of thing. It has a few interesting character options. Most of the rest of the book is adventure locations, like ruined giant cities in Xen'drik, the elven necropolis of Shae Mordai in Aerenal, et cetera. Hope that helps.
SSj3goblin 12-28-06, 06:21 PM	You answered my questions perfectly, but you made all books look worth the buy! I still don't know wich one(s) i'll get. I was thinking about buying two, one as a hardcover and one as a PDF and get it printed in black in white for cheapness. I'm really interested by Magic of Eberron for now, and i'm hesitating between dragonmarked and Faiths of Eberron...
cancerousmango 12-28-06, 07:19 PM	Dragonmarked.
Kaizer_Ryu 12-28-06, 07:44 PM	Both are really good, but in different ways. Dragonmarked tends more towards the crunch side, while Faiths tends towards fluff. Each has a good mix IMO, but that's how they lean. I liked both of them, and each expand both roleplaying and mechanics options. It really depends on which element you plan on focusing on more with your character/campaign.
mhacdebhandia 12-29-06, 05:45 AM	You answered my questions perfectly, but you made all books look worth the buy! I'm a prick. I still don't know wich one(s) i'll get. I was thinking about buying two, one as a hardcover and one as a PDF and get it printed in black in white for cheapness. Oh? Where are you buying PDFs of Wizards of the Coast products? They're pretty expensive on DriveThruRPG/RPGNow/OneBookShelf. I'm really interested by Magic of Eberron for now, and i'm hesitating between dragonmarked and Faiths of Eberron... I would have picked Faiths of Eberron, but then I have an Honours degree in Studies in Religion - I'm biased.
hcotterson 12-29-06, 06:04 AM	I would have picked Faiths of Eberron, but then I have an Honours degree in Studies in Religion - I'm biased. "Oh look at me, I'm hono[u]rs degree English-boy!" :rolleyes: . . . . . . . . all in good fun, chap :D
mhacdebhandia 12-29-06, 08:11 AM	Australian, actually. Though, uh, one of my other two majors was English . . . maybe that counts? I think Dragonmarked is also an excellent book, but I have my biases.
PoeticJustice 12-29-06, 08:07 PM	I realize my arguments may not be as well thought out as everyone else's on this thread, but Magic of Eberron and and Faiths of Eberron were terrible books. They spent too much time writing about lame material. Honestly, who cares how exactly the elemental binding procedure works? Why spend so much time dissembling the inner meaning of the Octogram and the Hexagram? Magic-New (lame) Races! Whopee, we're cooking with fire now! You can either play a warforged with chunks of crystal embedded in it or some weirdo with a symbiotic eye. Lame. Of course, even that's better than the mediocre spell list, hit-and-miss feat list, lame syberis shard items, and misinformed legends about Aerenal. The book had a few good prestige classes, a few cool artificer items, and a few good feats. All around: Sub-par. Faiths-Better than Magic, but still woefully miswritten. Writing up the Blood of Vol as some kind of inner divinity worshipping cult is fine from a anthropological stand-point. But anthropology has little place in my games. I want to read about the big, bad nasty vamp-worshippers. A little bit of flash would made the thing readable. As is, its a snooze. Oh yeah, the Blood of Vol section also has INCARNUM material. As if the thing weren't already worthless! Other issues: The Druid sects weren't developed anywhere close to enough. It feels like somebody spent all of a half hour writing each section. Warforged Gods (+ accompanying Warforged Domain). I don't know why but the concept of constructs worshipping gods has always rubbed me the wrong way. I could go on, but I think this covers it adequately. If I were you, I'd get the Explorer's Handbook. Now that there is a book.
Belabras 12-29-06, 10:19 PM	I won't offer an opinion on the books other than to say that they are all very good. In reference to the Expanded Psionic's Handbook, while it is an excellent resource, all the crunch is part of the SRD and can be easily referenced at this site (http://www.d20srd.org/) Complete Psionic is alright too, but not as good as the XPH
mhacdebhandia 12-29-06, 10:21 PM	Why spend so much time dissembling the inner meaning of the Octogram and the Hexagram? Symbolism is important to all human religions in the real world. Why would it be less important in a fictional world? Faiths-Better than Magic, but still woefully miswritten. Writing up the Blood of Vol as some kind of inner divinity worshipping cult is fine from a anthropological stand-point. But anthropology has little place in my games. I want to read about the big, bad nasty vamp-worshippers. A little bit of flash would made the thing readable. As is, its a snooze. You already have enough information on the Blood of Vol as the big, bad, nasty vampire-worshippers in the core book and other books. Faiths of Eberron, to my mind, correctly focused on why the majority of people who follow the Blood of Vol do so. Warforged Gods (+ accompanying Warforged Domain). I don't know why but the concept of constructs worshipping gods has always rubbed me the wrong way. Seems like an irrational prejudice to me. shrug Of course, I have an irrational bias in favour of an anthropological approach to fictional religions, so I liked Faiths of Eberron a lot. I think knowing why people do things gives rise to many more plot hooks than you could ever write in place of the explanation of why, exactly, they're doing it.