are dinosaurs dire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

are dinosaurs dire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mahavira
02-17-07, 01:35 PM I was just glancing at the 'horrid animal' template in the ECS and I noticed that it can only be applied to dire animals. Unlike virtually every animal conceivable, I've never seen a dire version of a dinosaur (and only a limited number of reptiles for that matter). While the WotC police aren't exactly going to bash down my door for applying horrid to a non-dire animal, I was just wondering whether I should find some way of diring the dinosaur before giving it an acid bite.
SSj3goblin
02-17-07, 02:08 PM I was just glancing at the 'horrid animal' template in the ECS and I noticed that it can only be applied to dire animals. Unlike virtually every animal conceivable, I've never seen a dire version of a dinosaur (and only a limited number of reptiles for that matter). While the WotC police aren't exactly going to bash down my door for applying horrid to a non-dire animal, I was just wondering whether I should find some way of diring the dinosaur before giving it an acid bite.

"Dire" animals are, by definition, primal, big and savage. There is not such thing as dire dinosaurs because dinosaurs ARE in a way dire animals.
DragoonDarkfire
02-17-07, 02:12 PM Horrid dinosaurs don't sound too out of the water for me.

Maybe some kind of Gatekeeper experiment with them?
Bonewarden
02-17-07, 02:16 PM Jeez, just the idea of a Horrid T-Rex scares me.

I would think that most Dinos could be considered Dire anyway as most of the animals that fall into the "Dire" category are based on mundane and relatively non-threatening animals (key word here being "relatively"). I won't even bring this up to my group as they will insist on being Talenta halflings with horrid versions of clawfoot and glidewind mounts ;)
mahavira
02-17-07, 02:23 PM Jeez, just the idea of a Horrid T-Rex scares me.

I would think that most Dinos could be considered Dire anyway as most of the animals that fall into the "Dire" category are based on mundane and relatively non-threatening animals (key word here being "relatively"). I won't even bring this up to my group as they will insist on being Talenta halflings with horrid versions of clawfoot and glidewind mounts ;)

You forgot to have them magebred then modified to be horrid.
JulesCARV
02-17-07, 02:39 PM "Dire" animals are just animals with "dire" in front of them: it doesn't really mean anything. If rats had gone extinct 10,000 years ago, maybe we would be calling the fossilized remains "dire mice" or something.

As such, if a dinosaur doesn't have "dire" in its name, then, no, it isn't dire.
Edymnion
02-17-07, 02:43 PM Yes, but we also have to remember that the real world dire animals were just larger versions of what we have today. To use the proper term for them, they were megafauna. There really were Dire Wolves, they were the size of modern bears.
Kaizer_Ryu
02-17-07, 03:08 PM Yes, but we also have to remember that the real world dire animals were just larger versions of what we have today. To use the proper term for them, they were megafauna. There really were Dire Wolves, they were the size of modern bears.
Ah ha! Steven Spielberg is a D&D nerd!

The Velociraptors weren't grossly oversized versions of an actual critter, they were DIRE!

;)
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 03:23 PM Ah ha! Steven Spielberg is a D&D nerd!

The Velociraptors weren't grossly oversized versions of an actual critter, they were DIRE!

;)

I'd say Spielberg's velociraptor was actually a deinonychus. It's a lot easier for the bum off the street to say velociraptor, or even 'raptor, so they went with that name. It's definitely a deinonychus, though. Or maybe, as you said, a DIRE Velociraptor!! :)
Shady314
02-17-07, 03:24 PM Ah ha! Steven Spielberg is a D&D nerd!

The Velociraptors weren't grossly oversized versions of an actual critter, they were DIRE!

;)

Nah it just turned out to be a Utah Raptor. http://www.abc.net.au/dinosaurs/fact_files/sky/utahraptor.htm

And if he'd made them even bigger they would have been megaraptors.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/278/5346/2063c
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 03:56 PM Nah it just turned out to be a Utah Raptor.

....said Spielberg, hoping no one knew that Utahraptor had yet to be discovered when he made his movie. ;)

I guess we could blame Michael Crichton for calling them velociraptor. Like I said above, I guess it's because most would consider deinonychus quite the jawcracker.
mahavira
02-17-07, 04:21 PM "Eek, the deinonychuses...deinonychi..."

<rip tear rend>

"OK from here on in we're calling the damn things velociraptors."

And for the next test, say Ixitxachitl 3 times quickly...
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 04:24 PM "Ixitxachitl?? What's that?"

"Isn't that the drow guide we hired out of Stormreach last week?"

"No, that was Axitxachitl."

"Oh. My mistake."

:)
mhacdebhandia
02-17-07, 09:08 PM ....said Spielberg, hoping no one knew that Utahraptor had yet to be discovered when he made his movie. ;)
Stan Winston's special effects team deliberately enlarged the velociraptors because it looked cooler. They knew it was erroneous, which is not to say they weren't gratified when the utahraptor was discovered.

Look for the 20th Anniversary Edition of Jurassic Park to have every instance of "velociraptor" redubbed to "utahraptor", and the tyrannosaurus rex replaced with a giant Energizer bunny. Too violent otherwise, you see.
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 09:32 PM Look for the 20th Anniversary Edition of Jurassic Park to have every instance of "velociraptor" redubbed to "utahraptor", and the tyrannosaurus rex replaced with a giant Energizer bunny. Too violent otherwise, you see.

:heehee Indeed.
RogueElement
02-17-07, 09:57 PM Off topic, but I just saw this real life Dire Bunny and had to share. The German Gray Giants weigh in at a terrifyingly large TWENTY-TWO POUNDS! God-king Jong is hoping to end the famine in North Korea by importing these dog-sized dire rabbits to be used as livestock.

http://borkweb.com/story/monster-rabbits-feed-north-korea

Another photo showing how big a dire bunny is next to an unarmored human:
http://scottfuller.net/?p=214
Ventifax
02-17-07, 10:21 PM I think there's a little perspective exaggeration in those photos. I saw that rabbit breeder on TV, & the rabbits are quite large, but I think they're more spaniel large than mastiff large.

Wait, this is a D&D board. I mean, I think they're on the low end of small instead of the low end of medium.;)
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 10:27 PM Off topic, but I just saw this real life Dire Bunny and had to share. The German Gray Giants weigh in at a terrifyingly large TWENTY-TWO POUNDS! God-king Jong is hoping to end the famine in North Korea by importing these dog-sized dire rabbits to be used as livestock.

http://borkweb.com/story/monster-rabbits-feed-north-korea

Another photo showing how big a dire bunny is next to an unarmored human:
http://scottfuller.net/?p=214

Now these bunnies need the horrid template!! Acid dripping from their razor sharp bunny-teeth...:eek:
DragoonDarkfire
02-17-07, 10:34 PM Now these bunnies need the horrid template!! Acid dripping from their razor sharp bunny-teeth...:eek:

HASN'T MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL TAUGHT YOU ANYTHING!?
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 10:38 PM HASN'T MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL TAUGHT YOU ANYTHING!?

:OMG!

:rofl: I cannot stop laughing this horrible, soar-throat, sick-as-a-dog laugh. The imagery of it all...
Alex_
02-17-07, 10:40 PM I'd say Spielberg's velociraptor was actually a deinonychus. It's a lot easier for the bum off the street to say velociraptor, or even 'raptor, so they went with that name. It's definitely a deinonychus, though.

Technically the Deinonychus is a species of Velociraptor: V. antirrhopus to be exact, while the smaller raptors described in the book were V. mongoliensis, which is the "common" velociraptor.

Although the raptors in Jurassic Park were even larger than Deinonychus.

....said Spielberg, hoping no one knew that Utahraptor had yet to be discovered when he made his movie.

The animals in Jurassic park were also smaller than Utahraptors and closer anatomically to Deinonychus anyway.
DragoonDarkfire
02-17-07, 10:49 PM :OMG!

:rofl: I cannot stop laughing this horrible, soar-throat, sick-as-a-dog laugh. The imagery of it all...

Don't laugh. Adding the horrid template to a dire bunny is the same as adding the Paragon Template to the Tarrasq.
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 10:57 PM Technically the Deinonychus is a species of Velociraptor: V. antirrhopus to be exact, while the smaller raptors described in the book were V. mongoliensis, which is the "common" velociraptor.

Although the raptors in Jurassic Park were even larger than Deinonychus.

The animals in Jurassic park were also smaller than Utahraptors and closer anatomically to Deinonychus anyway.

Just going by a few of your posts I've read today, I'd say we have a lot of common interests. I read your profile to see if you worked in a bio-science field. You obviously could have. I imagine you're bright enough to have done just about what ever you had wanted to do. I particularly enjoyed the "nerd stuff" category of interests. I say the same thing about myself to my wife and friends all the time.

:tiphat:
tallric_kruush
02-17-07, 11:01 PM Don't laugh. Adding the horrid template to a dire bunny is the same as adding the Paragon Template to the Tarrasq.

Now you've done it. Tomorrow some poor DM is gonna receive a request from his Druid PC for a Horrid Bunny animal companion. Clearly said animal would have an effective druid level adjustment of -19.
Kreistor2
02-18-07, 12:10 AM mahavira, you won't break anything applying the Horrid template to dinosaurs.
Alex_
02-18-07, 12:36 AM Just going by a few of your posts I've read today, I'd say we have a lot of common interests. I read your profile to see if you worked in a bio-science field. You obviously could have. I imagine you're bright enough to have done just about what ever you had wanted to do. I particularly enjoyed the "nerd stuff" category of interests. I say the same thing about myself to my wife and friends all the time.

:tiphat:

Thought I wanted to make it into a career, but a couple summers working for a university and seeing what they really do for a living (and the poor pay) made me decide against it. I didn't have much interest in lab work either.

So now it's a hobby :P I like it better that way.
Sturm Jaeger
02-18-07, 01:40 AM At least Eberron sidesteps that by using "clawfoot." :)
tallric_kruush
02-19-07, 11:48 AM At least Eberron sidesteps that by using "clawfoot." :)

Yeah, that was clever. A fantasy dinosaur doesn't have to be true-to-life, for me. If you're going to give a it real name, though, you'd better get it right.
I do wish the animal stats in MM were a little more precise. Ape=Gorilla for instance. While the inverse might be true, not all apes are gorillas. Why don't they just call it gorilla? And many of the stats themselves leave a lot to be desired...but that's just me overly critical. Overall, I am very thankful for that handy section of the MM.
mahavira
02-19-07, 11:59 AM Yeah, that was clever. A fantasy dinosaur doesn't have to be true-to-life, for me. If you're going to give a it real name, though, you'd better get it right.
I do wish the animal stats in MM were a little more precise. Ape=Gorilla for instance. While the inverse might be true, not all apes are gorillas. Why don't they just call it gorilla? And many of the stats themselves leave a lot to be desired...but that's just me overly critical. Overall, I am very thankful for that handy section of the MM.

My 3.0 MM actually says they aren't gorillas, just similar. Earlier editions had a distinction between ape (gorilla) and ape (carnivorous), and the designers probably thought for most people's purposes an ape is an ape is an ape.

"get your stinking paws off me you damn dirty...orangutan? Gibbon? Lowland gorilla?"
tallric_kruush
02-19-07, 02:09 PM My 3.0 MM actually says they aren't gorillas, just similar. Earlier editions had a distinction between ape (gorilla) and ape (carnivorous), and the designers probably thought for most people's purposes an ape is an ape is an ape.

"get your stinking paws off me you damn dirty...orangutan? Gibbon? Lowland gorilla?"

True. Some of us are just too picky for our own good.
Sturm Jaeger
02-19-07, 02:11 PM The use of "clawfoot," "threehorn," and such is more about not using Latin terminology in a fantasy world.

I think it's Latin, anyway.
Alex_
02-19-07, 06:32 PM The Eberron book also has the Draconic names for dinosaurs and commonly associated animals. It treats them more like any other animal than it does as something out of place in the environment, unlike many settings where dinosaurs are the mysterious remnants of a bygone era only encountered in areas untouched by time and civilization. In Eberron, they're just animals.

I think it's Latin, anyway.

It is. Most of it is anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mahavira 02-17-07, 01:35 PM	I was just glancing at the 'horrid animal' template in the ECS and I noticed that it can only be applied to dire animals. Unlike virtually every animal conceivable, I've never seen a dire version of a dinosaur (and only a limited number of reptiles for that matter). While the WotC police aren't exactly going to bash down my door for applying horrid to a non-dire animal, I was just wondering whether I should find some way of diring the dinosaur before giving it an acid bite.
SSj3goblin 02-17-07, 02:08 PM	I was just glancing at the 'horrid animal' template in the ECS and I noticed that it can only be applied to dire animals. Unlike virtually every animal conceivable, I've never seen a dire version of a dinosaur (and only a limited number of reptiles for that matter). While the WotC police aren't exactly going to bash down my door for applying horrid to a non-dire animal, I was just wondering whether I should find some way of diring the dinosaur before giving it an acid bite. "Dire" animals are, by definition, primal, big and savage. There is not such thing as dire dinosaurs because dinosaurs ARE in a way dire animals.
DragoonDarkfire 02-17-07, 02:12 PM	Horrid dinosaurs don't sound too out of the water for me. Maybe some kind of Gatekeeper experiment with them?
Bonewarden 02-17-07, 02:16 PM	Jeez, just the idea of a Horrid T-Rex scares me. I would think that most Dinos could be considered Dire anyway as most of the animals that fall into the "Dire" category are based on mundane and relatively non-threatening animals (key word here being "relatively"). I won't even bring this up to my group as they will insist on being Talenta halflings with horrid versions of clawfoot and glidewind mounts ;)
mahavira 02-17-07, 02:23 PM	Jeez, just the idea of a Horrid T-Rex scares me. I would think that most Dinos could be considered Dire anyway as most of the animals that fall into the "Dire" category are based on mundane and relatively non-threatening animals (key word here being "relatively"). I won't even bring this up to my group as they will insist on being Talenta halflings with horrid versions of clawfoot and glidewind mounts ;) You forgot to have them magebred then modified to be horrid.
JulesCARV 02-17-07, 02:39 PM	"Dire" animals are just animals with "dire" in front of them: it doesn't really mean anything. If rats had gone extinct 10,000 years ago, maybe we would be calling the fossilized remains "dire mice" or something. As such, if a dinosaur doesn't have "dire" in its name, then, no, it isn't dire.
Edymnion 02-17-07, 02:43 PM	Yes, but we also have to remember that the real world dire animals were just larger versions of what we have today. To use the proper term for them, they were megafauna. There really were Dire Wolves, they were the size of modern bears.
Kaizer_Ryu 02-17-07, 03:08 PM	Yes, but we also have to remember that the real world dire animals were just larger versions of what we have today. To use the proper term for them, they were megafauna. There really were Dire Wolves, they were the size of modern bears. Ah ha! Steven Spielberg is a D&D nerd! The Velociraptors weren't grossly oversized versions of an actual critter, they were DIRE! ;)
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 03:23 PM	Ah ha! Steven Spielberg is a D&D nerd! The Velociraptors weren't grossly oversized versions of an actual critter, they were DIRE! ;) I'd say Spielberg's velociraptor was actually a deinonychus. It's a lot easier for the bum off the street to say velociraptor, or even 'raptor, so they went with that name. It's definitely a deinonychus, though. Or maybe, as you said, a DIRE Velociraptor!! :)
Shady314 02-17-07, 03:24 PM	Ah ha! Steven Spielberg is a D&D nerd! The Velociraptors weren't grossly oversized versions of an actual critter, they were DIRE! ;) Nah it just turned out to be a Utah Raptor. http://www.abc.net.au/dinosaurs/fact_files/sky/utahraptor.htm And if he'd made them even bigger they would have been megaraptors. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/278/5346/2063c
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 03:56 PM	Nah it just turned out to be a Utah Raptor. ....said Spielberg, hoping no one knew that Utahraptor had yet to be discovered when he made his movie. ;) I guess we could blame Michael Crichton for calling them velociraptor. Like I said above, I guess it's because most would consider deinonychus quite the jawcracker.
mahavira 02-17-07, 04:21 PM	"Eek, the deinonychuses...deinonychi..." <rip tear rend> "OK from here on in we're calling the damn things velociraptors." And for the next test, say Ixitxachitl 3 times quickly...
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 04:24 PM	"Ixitxachitl?? What's that?" "Isn't that the drow guide we hired out of Stormreach last week?" "No, that was Axitxachitl." "Oh. My mistake." :)
mhacdebhandia 02-17-07, 09:08 PM	....said Spielberg, hoping no one knew that Utahraptor had yet to be discovered when he made his movie. ;) Stan Winston's special effects team deliberately enlarged the velociraptors because it looked cooler. They knew it was erroneous, which is not to say they weren't gratified when the utahraptor was discovered. Look for the 20th Anniversary Edition of Jurassic Park to have every instance of "velociraptor" redubbed to "utahraptor", and the tyrannosaurus rex replaced with a giant Energizer bunny. Too violent otherwise, you see.
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 09:32 PM	Look for the 20th Anniversary Edition of Jurassic Park to have every instance of "velociraptor" redubbed to "utahraptor", and the tyrannosaurus rex replaced with a giant Energizer bunny. Too violent otherwise, you see. :heehee Indeed.
RogueElement 02-17-07, 09:57 PM	Off topic, but I just saw this real life Dire Bunny and had to share. The German Gray Giants weigh in at a terrifyingly large TWENTY-TWO POUNDS! God-king Jong is hoping to end the famine in North Korea by importing these dog-sized dire rabbits to be used as livestock. http://borkweb.com/story/monster-rabbits-feed-north-korea Another photo showing how big a dire bunny is next to an unarmored human: http://scottfuller.net/?p=214
Ventifax 02-17-07, 10:21 PM	I think there's a little perspective exaggeration in those photos. I saw that rabbit breeder on TV, & the rabbits are quite large, but I think they're more spaniel large than mastiff large. Wait, this is a D&D board. I mean, I think they're on the low end of small instead of the low end of medium.;)
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 10:27 PM	Off topic, but I just saw this real life Dire Bunny and had to share. The German Gray Giants weigh in at a terrifyingly large TWENTY-TWO POUNDS! God-king Jong is hoping to end the famine in North Korea by importing these dog-sized dire rabbits to be used as livestock. http://borkweb.com/story/monster-rabbits-feed-north-korea Another photo showing how big a dire bunny is next to an unarmored human: http://scottfuller.net/?p=214 Now these bunnies need the horrid template!! Acid dripping from their razor sharp bunny-teeth...:eek:
DragoonDarkfire 02-17-07, 10:34 PM	Now these bunnies need the horrid template!! Acid dripping from their razor sharp bunny-teeth...:eek: HASN'T MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL TAUGHT YOU ANYTHING!?
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 10:38 PM	HASN'T MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL TAUGHT YOU ANYTHING!? :OMG! :rofl: I cannot stop laughing this horrible, soar-throat, sick-as-a-dog laugh. The imagery of it all...
Alex_ 02-17-07, 10:40 PM	I'd say Spielberg's velociraptor was actually a deinonychus. It's a lot easier for the bum off the street to say velociraptor, or even 'raptor, so they went with that name. It's definitely a deinonychus, though. Technically the Deinonychus is a species of Velociraptor: V. antirrhopus to be exact, while the smaller raptors described in the book were V. mongoliensis, which is the "common" velociraptor. Although the raptors in Jurassic Park were even larger than Deinonychus. ....said Spielberg, hoping no one knew that Utahraptor had yet to be discovered when he made his movie. The animals in Jurassic park were also smaller than Utahraptors and closer anatomically to Deinonychus anyway.
DragoonDarkfire 02-17-07, 10:49 PM	:OMG! :rofl: I cannot stop laughing this horrible, soar-throat, sick-as-a-dog laugh. The imagery of it all... Don't laugh. Adding the horrid template to a dire bunny is the same as adding the Paragon Template to the Tarrasq.
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 10:57 PM	Technically the Deinonychus is a species of Velociraptor: V. antirrhopus to be exact, while the smaller raptors described in the book were V. mongoliensis, which is the "common" velociraptor. Although the raptors in Jurassic Park were even larger than Deinonychus. The animals in Jurassic park were also smaller than Utahraptors and closer anatomically to Deinonychus anyway. Just going by a few of your posts I've read today, I'd say we have a lot of common interests. I read your profile to see if you worked in a bio-science field. You obviously could have. I imagine you're bright enough to have done just about what ever you had wanted to do. I particularly enjoyed the "nerd stuff" category of interests. I say the same thing about myself to my wife and friends all the time. :tiphat:
tallric_kruush 02-17-07, 11:01 PM	Don't laugh. Adding the horrid template to a dire bunny is the same as adding the Paragon Template to the Tarrasq. Now you've done it. Tomorrow some poor DM is gonna receive a request from his Druid PC for a Horrid Bunny animal companion. Clearly said animal would have an effective druid level adjustment of -19.
Kreistor2 02-18-07, 12:10 AM	mahavira, you won't break anything applying the Horrid template to dinosaurs.
Alex_ 02-18-07, 12:36 AM	Just going by a few of your posts I've read today, I'd say we have a lot of common interests. I read your profile to see if you worked in a bio-science field. You obviously could have. I imagine you're bright enough to have done just about what ever you had wanted to do. I particularly enjoyed the "nerd stuff" category of interests. I say the same thing about myself to my wife and friends all the time. :tiphat: Thought I wanted to make it into a career, but a couple summers working for a university and seeing what they really do for a living (and the poor pay) made me decide against it. I didn't have much interest in lab work either. So now it's a hobby :P I like it better that way.
Sturm Jaeger 02-18-07, 01:40 AM	At least Eberron sidesteps that by using "clawfoot." :)
tallric_kruush 02-19-07, 11:48 AM	At least Eberron sidesteps that by using "clawfoot." :) Yeah, that was clever. A fantasy dinosaur doesn't have to be true-to-life, for me. If you're going to give a it real name, though, you'd better get it right. I do wish the animal stats in MM were a little more precise. Ape=Gorilla for instance. While the inverse might be true, not all apes are gorillas. Why don't they just call it gorilla? And many of the stats themselves leave a lot to be desired...but that's just me overly critical. Overall, I am very thankful for that handy section of the MM.
mahavira 02-19-07, 11:59 AM	Yeah, that was clever. A fantasy dinosaur doesn't have to be true-to-life, for me. If you're going to give a it real name, though, you'd better get it right. I do wish the animal stats in MM were a little more precise. Ape=Gorilla for instance. While the inverse might be true, not all apes are gorillas. Why don't they just call it gorilla? And many of the stats themselves leave a lot to be desired...but that's just me overly critical. Overall, I am very thankful for that handy section of the MM. My 3.0 MM actually says they aren't gorillas, just similar. Earlier editions had a distinction between ape (gorilla) and ape (carnivorous), and the designers probably thought for most people's purposes an ape is an ape is an ape. "get your stinking paws off me you damn dirty...orangutan? Gibbon? Lowland gorilla?"
tallric_kruush 02-19-07, 02:09 PM	My 3.0 MM actually says they aren't gorillas, just similar. Earlier editions had a distinction between ape (gorilla) and ape (carnivorous), and the designers probably thought for most people's purposes an ape is an ape is an ape. "get your stinking paws off me you damn dirty...orangutan? Gibbon? Lowland gorilla?" True. Some of us are just too picky for our own good.
Sturm Jaeger 02-19-07, 02:11 PM	The use of "clawfoot," "threehorn," and such is more about not using Latin terminology in a fantasy world. I think it's Latin, anyway.
Alex_ 02-19-07, 06:32 PM	The Eberron book also has the Draconic names for dinosaurs and commonly associated animals. It treats them more like any other animal than it does as something out of place in the environment, unlike many settings where dinosaurs are the mysterious remnants of a bygone era only encountered in areas untouched by time and civilization. In Eberron, they're just animals. I think it's Latin, anyway. It is. Most of it is anyway.