Are the Inspired Evil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are the Inspired Evil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seth of the First Brigade
04-24-06, 01:24 PM I know its obvious from reading the books that the Inspired are the bad guys, and the Kalashtar the good guys. But my question is does the rest of the world; ie Eberron, know it. Is it obvious to everyone else that the Inspired are the bad guys? If not why havent the Kalashtar exposed them? Any info on this would be awesome.

Thanks! :confused:
DragonWatcher
04-24-06, 01:34 PM Nope, other than the Kalashtar (and of course any PCs who might have gleaned this information), the rest of the setting has no idea that the Inspired are evil. And really, why would they? The Inspired are singlehandedly responsible for ending war and crimes in Sarlona and Riedra. The people who live there revere the Inspired for their um... inspiration, well, their wisdom and leadership. Even in Khorvaire, the Inspired have appeared as peacemakers, negotiating peaceful relationships to stop all manner of conflict from feuds between individual nations, to helping end the Last War itself.

The reason for this, of course, is that the Inspired are nothing more than a shell for the Quori, who are immortal and infinitely patient. The Quori want stability, and for most races, stability is a good thing. It's just the lengths that the Quori are willing to go to for that stability that makes them evil. Essentially, they are enslaving people to get it, and even if the people don't realize that they're enslaved, that doesn't change the fact that the action is evil. And so what if the Quori have to kill multitudes of people on Eberron to gain that stability... they're lesser beings, and worth the sacrifice. Of course, the key is that nobody knows that this is happening.
UncleScrewtape
04-24-06, 01:41 PM Well, the Kalashtar are relatively weak, and the Inspired relatively powerful. Rierdran ambassadors tell the rest of the world to write off their wild accusations as terrorist propaganda or the deranged rantings of the unhinged.

It's similar to people who claim the U.S. Government engineered the 9/11 terrorist attacks, or other people who claim that the Holocaust didn't really happen (Not that either of those are valid beliefs). When someone starts ranting about either of those topics, most people just dismiss it out of hand.
Belabras
04-24-06, 01:42 PM As to the 'why do the kalashtar not spread the word' there are two reasons:

1. As far as they are concerned, the war against the Dreaming Dark is theirs and they are winning. Why would they want to ask for help? Sure, what's being done in Rierdra is bad, but once the wheel of ages turns that will stop. The Quori are arrogant, and that arrogance extends to the Kalashtar a bit as well.

2. Who would they tell, and who would believe them? It's pretty hard to offer tangible proof of the DD's villainy, since they don't do much overtly.
Kreistor1
04-24-06, 02:34 PM I think the real question here is "What is the strength of an Inspired's evil aura when viewed by Detect Evil? Does it scan on the Outsider line or the Evil Creature line?"

I don't have the ECS here. That should be in the Inspired description. If it is not, then I would have to default to the Evil Creature line, not the Evil Outsider line.

Being unable to hide their Evil natures, Quori could never have become the Inspired and dominated Sarlona. Big E Evil will always create an opposition force from small g good.

So, the only way the Inspired could have taken over is if they scan as evil instead of Evil, just like a good proportion of the society, so that they didn't alarm the forces on Sarlona that would be willing to take them down.
Korhal_IV
04-24-06, 07:59 PM Kreistor - just 'cause they scan as big E evil doesn't mean they couldn't have taken over Sarlona. They just could've squashed all the little g good in their way. :P I mean, really, how much good is there in authority right now in Khorvaire? Imagine Sarlona in the same state!
Seth of the First Brigade
04-25-06, 12:17 AM Can the followers, or Templars of the Silver Flame tell that they are evil, and if so why dont they act. Their not weak, and they typically dont "tolerate evil". Would'nt they go after the Inspired in the same way they did the Lycanthropes? Just a thought..
Korhal_IV
04-25-06, 03:17 AM First off, unlike the lycanthropes, the Inspired are highly organized, live on another continent, and are generally popular. Yes, if the CotSF knew the Inspired were essentially demon-possessed, they'd go after the Inspired. However, there's a lot of obfuscation that can happen along the way. For starters, as a general rule of etiquette you do not pull Detect spells on foreign emissaries. Said emissaries are usually equipped with Nondetection or Mind Blank spells anyway (canyou imagine the havoc if someone could spy on your ambassador all day, or mentally possess him?). Secondly, you have the problem of declaring war on an entire empire because a given government official is registering as possessed - um, kill them all and let God sort them out?
Thirdly, you have the problem that Riedra is much, much larger, and has (probably) many more spellcasters than Thrane, and a bizarre system of magic with which the Thranes have little experience.

It's going to take a lot to get High Cardinal Krozen off his big chair.
nyysjan
04-25-06, 05:55 AM Ring of Mindshielding helps with any troubles with alignment auras
Kreistor1
04-26-06, 01:38 PM Well, Korhal, that doesn't jive with the descriptions of the Quori being subtle manipulators at all. I seem to recall the books describing the Inspired presenting themselves to their people as the vessels for good and enlightened beings from another plane, which is completely impossible if they scan as Evil.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
04-26-06, 01:51 PM Well, Korhal, that doesn't jive with the descriptions of the Quori being subtle manipulators at all. I seem to recall the books describing the Inspired presenting themselves to their people as the vessels for good and enlightened beings from another plane, which is completely impossible if they scan as Evil.

Detect Evil (along with all other arcane and divine magic) is banned in Riedra, and anyone found practicing any magic is likely to find themselves missing one night. So it's not a problem for the Inspired on Riedra, since anyone capable of finding out they are possessed by fiends is either dead or on their side.
Kreistor1
04-26-06, 02:14 PM I'm not concerned about the "now". They had to get to here, and stage one had Sarlona in a city state-to-small nation situation, where variety was inevitable and uncontrollable. The Inspired didn't start in power, they gained it, and worked to unite Sarlona into Riedra, so until they got to where they could write that law, Detect Evil must not have worked on them. Given their numbers are not insignificant, it had to be an inherent and constant effect that prevented Detect Evil from working.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
04-26-06, 03:54 PM They probably got there the same way they are doing it in Khorvaire now, by giving the people no reason to use Detect Evil on them in the first place. The Inspired brought peace, and promised it from the start. They helped the nations of Sarlona to unite, and never presented an offensive front. Anyone that would discover the truth, either by inadvertently catching the Inspired in their detect spell, or by their own suspisions beyond the norm, would be silenced before they could tell anyone about it.
Seth of the First Brigade
04-26-06, 07:03 PM I'm not concerned about the "now". They had to get to here, and stage one had Sarlona in a city state-to-small nation situation, where variety was inevitable and uncontrollable. The Inspired didn't start in power, they gained it, and worked to unite Sarlona into Riedra, so until they got to where they could write that law, Detect Evil must not have worked on them. Given their numbers are not insignificant, it had to be an inherent and constant effect that prevented Detect Evil from working.

They probably got there the same way they are doing it in Khorvaire now, by giving the people no reason to use Detect Evil on them in the first place. The Inspired brought peace, and promised it from the start. They helped the nations of Sarlona to unite, and never presented an offensive front. Anyone that would discover the truth, either by inadvertently catching the Inspired in their detect spell, or by their own suspisions beyond the norm, would be silenced before they could tell anyone about it.

I am glad someone else thought of this as well Kreistor 1. The same question came to my mind as well. How did they get past detect evil. I suppose that if they presented themselves in such a way as to not warrant it they could perhaps have slipped by. Quite honestly I dont think that I as a Player would scan a Celestial if it came down to help me out of a very bad situation. I would probably ask questions as to why it chose to help me, but unless something was fishy I would not detect evil.

However I dont know if this train of thought would apply when dealing with the heads of nations. I believe the general course of thought would be guilty until proven innocent especially if they showed up offering their help. I cant believe that anyone of the Leaders of the Five Nations, or any other Sovereign Nation for that matter would not request that their Secret Agencies check these guys out. I.E. The Dark Lanterns, The Royal Eyes, or the Trust to name a few. And in addition to all this I would suppose that even if they made it through this that there would still be further scanning for such at the negotiating table if you will. In both instances this would be a High Priority issue, one potentially of National Security. So only the Best of the Best within the agencies would receive this assignment, and I am sure that the, lets call them the advisors to the king or queen would also give them the once over. If they were to be "caught" in doing this, a simple "Forgive me my friend for the intrusion, but these are troubled times, and such times call for such measures. God save the King" If they got a reason at all. And if they were found to be evil, the King would be removed the negotiations ended, and the word put out at least about this particular diplomat and possibly the intentions of the Riedran Emissary's as a whole. These are just my thoughts what do you guys think?
ieattrollsforbreakfast
04-26-06, 07:49 PM Those are valid points, Seth. The Inspired in Khorvaire have probably had a very difficult time with the paranoid governments of the Five Nations, but it doesn't make it impossible to fool them. All they would need is a ring of Undetectable Alignment or similar, so that when detect evil is used on them nothing shows up. With the budget of an entire empire, they should easily be able to afford enough for their diplomats. I don't think many governments would be so paranoid and willing to risk losing the aid of the Inspired that they would demand to repeat the check with the diplomat naked of all possible magic items.
As for the past, it could have been that the nations of Sarlona were more naive, or perhaps they did not have as readily available magic as Khorvaire. Or even if they did, perhaps the Inspired used decades of carefully constructed propoganda to win back any trust.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seth of the First Brigade 04-24-06, 01:24 PM	I know its obvious from reading the books that the Inspired are the bad guys, and the Kalashtar the good guys. But my question is does the rest of the world; ie Eberron, know it. Is it obvious to everyone else that the Inspired are the bad guys? If not why havent the Kalashtar exposed them? Any info on this would be awesome. Thanks! :confused:
DragonWatcher 04-24-06, 01:34 PM	Nope, other than the Kalashtar (and of course any PCs who might have gleaned this information), the rest of the setting has no idea that the Inspired are evil. And really, why would they? The Inspired are singlehandedly responsible for ending war and crimes in Sarlona and Riedra. The people who live there revere the Inspired for their um... inspiration, well, their wisdom and leadership. Even in Khorvaire, the Inspired have appeared as peacemakers, negotiating peaceful relationships to stop all manner of conflict from feuds between individual nations, to helping end the Last War itself. The reason for this, of course, is that the Inspired are nothing more than a shell for the Quori, who are immortal and infinitely patient. The Quori want stability, and for most races, stability is a good thing. It's just the lengths that the Quori are willing to go to for that stability that makes them evil. Essentially, they are enslaving people to get it, and even if the people don't realize that they're enslaved, that doesn't change the fact that the action is evil. And so what if the Quori have to kill multitudes of people on Eberron to gain that stability... they're lesser beings, and worth the sacrifice. Of course, the key is that nobody knows that this is happening.
UncleScrewtape 04-24-06, 01:41 PM	Well, the Kalashtar are relatively weak, and the Inspired relatively powerful. Rierdran ambassadors tell the rest of the world to write off their wild accusations as terrorist propaganda or the deranged rantings of the unhinged. It's similar to people who claim the U.S. Government engineered the 9/11 terrorist attacks, or other people who claim that the Holocaust didn't really happen (Not that either of those are valid beliefs). When someone starts ranting about either of those topics, most people just dismiss it out of hand.
Belabras 04-24-06, 01:42 PM	As to the 'why do the kalashtar not spread the word' there are two reasons: 1. As far as they are concerned, the war against the Dreaming Dark is theirs and they are winning. Why would they want to ask for help? Sure, what's being done in Rierdra is bad, but once the wheel of ages turns that will stop. The Quori are arrogant, and that arrogance extends to the Kalashtar a bit as well. 2. Who would they tell, and who would believe them? It's pretty hard to offer tangible proof of the DD's villainy, since they don't do much overtly.
Kreistor1 04-24-06, 02:34 PM	I think the real question here is "What is the strength of an Inspired's evil aura when viewed by Detect Evil? Does it scan on the Outsider line or the Evil Creature line?" I don't have the ECS here. That should be in the Inspired description. If it is not, then I would have to default to the Evil Creature line, not the Evil Outsider line. Being unable to hide their Evil natures, Quori could never have become the Inspired and dominated Sarlona. Big E Evil will always create an opposition force from small g good. So, the only way the Inspired could have taken over is if they scan as evil instead of Evil, just like a good proportion of the society, so that they didn't alarm the forces on Sarlona that would be willing to take them down.
Korhal_IV 04-24-06, 07:59 PM	Kreistor - just 'cause they scan as big E evil doesn't mean they couldn't have taken over Sarlona. They just could've squashed all the little g good in their way. :P I mean, really, how much good is there in authority right now in Khorvaire? Imagine Sarlona in the same state!
Seth of the First Brigade 04-25-06, 12:17 AM	Can the followers, or Templars of the Silver Flame tell that they are evil, and if so why dont they act. Their not weak, and they typically dont "tolerate evil". Would'nt they go after the Inspired in the same way they did the Lycanthropes? Just a thought..
Korhal_IV 04-25-06, 03:17 AM	First off, unlike the lycanthropes, the Inspired are highly organized, live on another continent, and are generally popular. Yes, if the CotSF knew the Inspired were essentially demon-possessed, they'd go after the Inspired. However, there's a lot of obfuscation that can happen along the way. For starters, as a general rule of etiquette you do not pull Detect spells on foreign emissaries. Said emissaries are usually equipped with Nondetection or Mind Blank spells anyway (canyou imagine the havoc if someone could spy on your ambassador all day, or mentally possess him?). Secondly, you have the problem of declaring war on an entire empire because a given government official is registering as possessed - um, kill them all and let God sort them out? Thirdly, you have the problem that Riedra is much, much larger, and has (probably) many more spellcasters than Thrane, and a bizarre system of magic with which the Thranes have little experience. It's going to take a lot to get High Cardinal Krozen off his big chair.
nyysjan 04-25-06, 05:55 AM	Ring of Mindshielding helps with any troubles with alignment auras
Kreistor1 04-26-06, 01:38 PM	Well, Korhal, that doesn't jive with the descriptions of the Quori being subtle manipulators at all. I seem to recall the books describing the Inspired presenting themselves to their people as the vessels for good and enlightened beings from another plane, which is completely impossible if they scan as Evil.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 04-26-06, 01:51 PM	Well, Korhal, that doesn't jive with the descriptions of the Quori being subtle manipulators at all. I seem to recall the books describing the Inspired presenting themselves to their people as the vessels for good and enlightened beings from another plane, which is completely impossible if they scan as Evil. Detect Evil (along with all other arcane and divine magic) is banned in Riedra, and anyone found practicing any magic is likely to find themselves missing one night. So it's not a problem for the Inspired on Riedra, since anyone capable of finding out they are possessed by fiends is either dead or on their side.
Kreistor1 04-26-06, 02:14 PM	I'm not concerned about the "now". They had to get to here, and stage one had Sarlona in a city state-to-small nation situation, where variety was inevitable and uncontrollable. The Inspired didn't start in power, they gained it, and worked to unite Sarlona into Riedra, so until they got to where they could write that law, Detect Evil must not have worked on them. Given their numbers are not insignificant, it had to be an inherent and constant effect that prevented Detect Evil from working.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 04-26-06, 03:54 PM	They probably got there the same way they are doing it in Khorvaire now, by giving the people no reason to use Detect Evil on them in the first place. The Inspired brought peace, and promised it from the start. They helped the nations of Sarlona to unite, and never presented an offensive front. Anyone that would discover the truth, either by inadvertently catching the Inspired in their detect spell, or by their own suspisions beyond the norm, would be silenced before they could tell anyone about it.
Seth of the First Brigade 04-26-06, 07:03 PM	I'm not concerned about the "now". They had to get to here, and stage one had Sarlona in a city state-to-small nation situation, where variety was inevitable and uncontrollable. The Inspired didn't start in power, they gained it, and worked to unite Sarlona into Riedra, so until they got to where they could write that law, Detect Evil must not have worked on them. Given their numbers are not insignificant, it had to be an inherent and constant effect that prevented Detect Evil from working. They probably got there the same way they are doing it in Khorvaire now, by giving the people no reason to use Detect Evil on them in the first place. The Inspired brought peace, and promised it from the start. They helped the nations of Sarlona to unite, and never presented an offensive front. Anyone that would discover the truth, either by inadvertently catching the Inspired in their detect spell, or by their own suspisions beyond the norm, would be silenced before they could tell anyone about it. I am glad someone else thought of this as well Kreistor 1. The same question came to my mind as well. How did they get past detect evil. I suppose that if they presented themselves in such a way as to not warrant it they could perhaps have slipped by. Quite honestly I dont think that I as a Player would scan a Celestial if it came down to help me out of a very bad situation. I would probably ask questions as to why it chose to help me, but unless something was fishy I would not detect evil. However I dont know if this train of thought would apply when dealing with the heads of nations. I believe the general course of thought would be guilty until proven innocent especially if they showed up offering their help. I cant believe that anyone of the Leaders of the Five Nations, or any other Sovereign Nation for that matter would not request that their Secret Agencies check these guys out. I.E. The Dark Lanterns, The Royal Eyes, or the Trust to name a few. And in addition to all this I would suppose that even if they made it through this that there would still be further scanning for such at the negotiating table if you will. In both instances this would be a High Priority issue, one potentially of National Security. So only the Best of the Best within the agencies would receive this assignment, and I am sure that the, lets call them the advisors to the king or queen would also give them the once over. If they were to be "caught" in doing this, a simple "Forgive me my friend for the intrusion, but these are troubled times, and such times call for such measures. God save the King" If they got a reason at all. And if they were found to be evil, the King would be removed the negotiations ended, and the word put out at least about this particular diplomat and possibly the intentions of the Riedran Emissary's as a whole. These are just my thoughts what do you guys think?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 04-26-06, 07:49 PM	Those are valid points, Seth. The Inspired in Khorvaire have probably had a very difficult time with the paranoid governments of the Five Nations, but it doesn't make it impossible to fool them. All they would need is a ring of Undetectable Alignment or similar, so that when detect evil is used on them nothing shows up. With the budget of an entire empire, they should easily be able to afford enough for their diplomats. I don't think many governments would be so paranoid and willing to risk losing the aid of the Inspired that they would demand to repeat the check with the diplomat naked of all possible magic items. As for the past, it could have been that the nations of Sarlona were more naive, or perhaps they did not have as readily available magic as Khorvaire. Or even if they did, perhaps the Inspired used decades of carefully constructed propoganda to win back any trust.