Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Forged_Mistress 09-27-04, 11:20 AM	I am new to these boards and new to D&D. I am looking to be an Artificer and there are a few questions hopefully you can help me answer. #1: Is it 20 + Caster Level OR 20 + Spell Level for creating new magic items? #2: Can they make magic items that use spells beyond level 6? i.e. Ring of 3 wishes #3: With an Artificer in the party, what 2 would be better to team up with? Why? Choices: Ranger Rogue Paladin Sorcerer Thanks in advance. ~Forged_Mistress isn't afraid of the big mean things, she's afraid of the unknown little sneaky things~
UltimaGabe 09-27-04, 12:38 PM	I am new to these boards and new to D&D. I am looking to be an Artificer and there are a few questions hopefully you can help me answer. #1: Is it 20 + Caster Level OR 20 + Spell Level for creating new magic items? #2: Can they make magic items that use spells beyond level 6? i.e. Ring of 3 wishes 1: 20 + caster level. 2: Of course. After all, their Infusions (I'm assuming that's where you got the level 6 limit from) aren't spells, and have nothing to do with item creation. If they want to make a Ring of 3 Wishes, go ahead- but they must A- have the Forge Ring feat, B- Be able to emulate a Wish or Miracle spell, and C- be able to spend the ungodly amount of experience and gold to make one. So they won't be able to make one until at LEAST 14th level (the level they get Forge Ring), and even then they probably won't have enough experience to make one unless they use Retain Essence on quite a few extremely expensive magic items first. Also, remember that the Artisan feats only apply to the base cost of the item, not additional costs- so the 15,000 xp needed for a Ring of Three Wishes doesn't get reduced by an Artisan feat.
fizzbang 09-27-04, 12:51 PM	#1: Is it 20 + Caster Level OR 20 + Spell Level for creating new magic items? I'm afraid I can't help you on this. If the player of the artificer in our party was on, I could get him to answer it... #2: Can they make magic items that use spells beyond level 6? i.e. Ring of 3 wishes Oh yes, definitely. They just need the correct feat, materials/xp, a caster level within 2 levels of the item's caster/creator level, and the ability to make the Use Magic Device roll to simulate having the spell used for the item. Theoretically, a high enough level artificer can make any magical (non-artifact) item in the game. But watch those UMD rolls: They can get pretty high for the big items, and if you end up failing them all, then you lose everything you put into making it! Be sure to keep an action point on reserve if you're making a massive item. #3: With an Artificer in the party, what 2 would be better to team up with? Why? Choices: Ranger Rogue Paladin Sorcerer Well, it depends on the style of the game and the way the artificer is built. The Artificer can do the duties of a rogue in terms of finding and disabling traps, and can act like a low-powered cleric for healing warforged characters. With their UMD and their ability to make scrolls/potions/wands as necessary, they can be potent and versatile magical support, but at a price in terms of xp and gold. The Craft Pool helps with that a lot, but expect to be very careful with your gold. But since the artificer will eventually be able to create excellent supplies for the rest of the party, I'd go with a Paladin and a Sorcerer. The Paladin can always use magic arms and armor from the Artificer (moreso than the Ranger), and in a pinch can provide minor healing and eventually cast healing spells (making him able to use Artificer-made scrolls and wands). Meanwhile, the Sorcerer can make use of the arcane items made by the Artificer, and provide a longer-lasting source of magical firepower. I might recommend a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer, but they've both got their benefits.
eRaz0r 09-27-04, 01:05 PM	2: So they won't be able to make one until at LEAST 14th level (the level they get Forge Ring), Actually, they need to be 15th level, because Wish/Miracle is a 9th level spell, which requires Caster Level 17, but with an Artificer's +2 effective caster level for item creation, that's a 15. But that's such a minor quibble, it makes no difference. As for the original questions : 3/ Ranger, Rogue, Paladin, Sorcerer ... That's entirely dependant on the campaign you're running. I'd tend to go with Paladin + Sorcerer as well, simply because you've got Arcane Power and Frontline Smiting with that combo. It's also interesting to have a High Charisma party (Paladins, Sorcerers and Artificers all benefit from CHA). On the other hand, a stealthy party would be fun, but the Artificer doesn't have much to help him in that regard. Rogues can max UMD too, though, so you might find they're a good fit with the Artificer.
m15a 09-27-04, 01:11 PM	ranger might be nice because it fills the sneaking and spotting requirements of a rogue, while the artificer does the traps and locks. the ranger also has *some* healing abilities. it might be tough for an artificer to take care of the entire arcane role, so i'd go with sorceror, too. it's a tough call between ranger and paladin, in my opinion. depends a little bit on what sort of campaign it'll be and what sort of artificer you'd be. could you front line and be at least a little tankish?, then i'd go with ranger. if you're going to stay in the back, you might need the paladin to be your supertank frontliner.
fizzbang 09-27-04, 01:31 PM	3/ Ranger, Rogue, Paladin, Sorcerer ... That's entirely dependant on the campaign you're running. I'd tend to go with Paladin + Sorcerer as well, simply because you've got Arcane Power and Frontline Smiting with that combo. It's also interesting to have a High Charisma party (Paladins, Sorcerers and Artificers all benefit from CHA). On the other hand, a stealthy party would be fun, but the Artificer doesn't have much to help him in that regard. Rogues can max UMD too, though, so you might find they're a good fit with the Artificer. Ooh, I hadn't even thought about the fact that a Paladin, Artificer, Sorceror party would all have high Charisma. That could be really enjoyable, especially considering the emphasis that Eberron can put on roleplaying! I can see each one going a different route in their Charisma skills: Paladin gets Diplomacy, Artificer gets Bluff, and Sorceror goes for Gather Information... It'd require some sort of feat to get the skill in-class in some cases, but with a trio of good roleplayers, it'd be a lot of fun! And, as m15a said later, Ranger, Rogue and Artificer is definitely also a viable party, espeically for stealthy missions. An Artificer lacks the skills to sneak or spot like their companions, but judicious use of wonderous items and simulated spells from scrolls could make up for that...
Doctor X 09-27-04, 02:50 PM	I'd say a Paladin or Druid would be good. That's combat, healing, blasting, and trap-disabling all relatively covered. Though if you have more people joining the party, a wizard or sorcerer might be good for more conventional blasting... so you won't have to worry about crafting an item for absolutely everything you want to do in combat. Oh, and my feeling is that at least one character in the party should be going for Dragonmark Heir... or at least be a member of a dragonmarked house. Those kinds of connections can be quite useful, considering Eberron's focus on intrigue. The DM can exploit them for interesting adventure ideas, and the party can use them to get certain useful services for free-- especially house Orien. You want to catch a lightning rail across the country? Hey... you're one of the family. I'm sure they could figure something out.
fizzbang 09-27-04, 02:55 PM	Oh, and my feeling is that at least one character in the party should be going for Dragonmark Heir... or at least be a member of a dragonmarked house. Those kinds of connections can be quite useful, considering Eberron's focus on intrigue. The DM can exploit them for interesting adventure ideas, and the party can use them to get certain useful services for free-- especially house Orien. You want to catch a lightning rail across the country? Hey... you're one of the family. I'm sure they could figure something out. I think there are still quite a few intrigue options available for a party even if they aren't members of any of the houses. In fact, not being alligned with any house can make them a valuable commodity as "unconnected parties" for intra-house battles or the like. At that point, you might as well call the person who hires them "Mr. Johnson" and say you're playing a steampunk version of Shadowrun. =}
Edymnion 09-27-04, 02:58 PM	Artificer and a Warforged Fighter for a bodyguard always makes a great combination.
Forged_Mistress 09-27-04, 03:02 PM	I am sorry that I didn't mention the races of the entire party. We are all going to be warforged. Now I am not sure if this changes your replies or not but I figured that was a bit of an important part that I left out. Thanks to everyone who replied. I really appreciate the answers. :) Thanks Once Again ~Forged_Mistress~
ThanisKartaleon 09-27-04, 04:02 PM	Here are my house rules/clarifications for 'forged. You may want to look them over. • Slam attack considered manufactured weapon, and may be enchanted as such. • Slam attack can be secondary (-5 to hit, 1/2 str mod to dmg). If sole attack, 1-1/2 str mod to dmg. • Casing can be elemental bound. • 'Forged casing can be enchanted as armor or as robes; If the 'forged dies, the enchantments on it are ruined. • Experimental models could be produced: Crystal casings, female forms, etc. Need good explanation. • Components (docents, armblades, etc) are attached magically and mechanically... so dispel magic will cause them to cease to function, but not fall off. • Eternal wands can be placed in wand sheaths, and then can be removed after it's charges are used for the day. • Adamantine Body feat: +10% weight. • Mithral Body feat: -25% weight. • Only take 1/2 damage from inflict spells. • Regenerate spell & Ring of Regeneration: 50% effectiveness. • 'Forged can bolt/weld some things to themselves, such as a sheath for a sword. Shields & the like are a more complicated issue. However, a repair spell would push any bolts out and undo any welds that were not part of the original design, unless Craft Construct is used to permanently make the changes. • In the case of a severed limb, a character with the Craft Construct feat and 13 ranks in the appropriate skill could make an appropriate craft check (DC 25) to reattach it. This also takes some xp(50 xp), time & gold (500gp). • Exceptional Artisan feat also reduces time for repairing warforged. • 'forged have an alchemical fluid as part of their makeup that congeals in contact with air, sealing the "leak". Thus, they don't bleed, but can be drained. (Until immunity to ability damage) • Warforged do not have a "brain" that can be sucked out by illithids. • Alchemical substances designed to affect warforged as alcohol does humans do exist, but many 'forged fail to see the purpose to this. • Facial expressions limited to moving jaw. • Vs. a Delver's corrosive slime, 'forged take 3d6 damage (part organic, part metal). • 'Forged may work all day and night, except if magic is involved in the crafting, in which case the cap is 8 hours. • Artificer/Wizard needs 8 hours rest, but is still conscious at this time; Could serve as sentry, but could not engage in physical activities. • Homunculi are created from a piece of the 'forged's wood element, which is burnt, then the ashes are mixed with some liquid. Or slivers of the metal element reduced to powder and mixed. • Produce sound through a mystical engine. Cannot play horns or woodwinds unless special design (Warbard?) from lvl 1. • 'Forged taking Apothesis prestige classes do not change creature type.
ThanisKartaleon 09-27-04, 04:06 PM	And here's my House Rules/Clarifications on Artificers: • Infusions allow saving throws as normal for spells, DCs based on Intelligence. • Item creation feats cannot be applied to infusions. • Add Animate Objects as an artificer infusion. • When an item is made it is considered to be arcane or divine based on the spells involved; if it could go either way, the artificer decides. They can be used by anyone with the spell on their class spell list, but cannot be copied to a spellbook. • If an item that dupicates Raise Dead or similar is made, roll on Dolurrh coterminous table (p 95). • Can't dupicate divine spells that only exist as part of a domain. • 0 level is .5 for spell storing item formula. • Cannith Heir of Syberis can add caster levels to Artificer instead of wizard/sorcerer/etc. • When using Dedicated Wright, pay XP as normal, then make emulation rolls. If you fail, you don't lose the GP because the wright hasn't begun the work yet. • Schema are both blueprints and the focus for item creation. It cannot simply be copied. • Artificers are the MacGuyvers of D&D, using whatever is at hand. However, there can be an "Artificer's Kit" that provides a +2 to UMD to emulate spells for item creation. Artificers begin play with a small tool kit like a wizard does a spellbook, no skill bonus but allows him to do his work. • Can expend 5th lvl infusion for effective regeneration spell for 'forged.
glimeral 09-28-04, 07:56 PM	I was looking through older published works, specifically for item creation prestige classes, and in my opinion artificers who gain item creation feats should be able to take these classes (such as gnome artificer, runecaster, runesmith, master alchemist etc) despite not being able to cast spells because, the spellcasting requirement for these classes are also prerequisites for all of the item creation feats... another point, do artificers also have the ability to choose item creation feats from other published sources without needing to qualify for their prerequisites (such as inscribe runes, craft crystal capacitors, inscribe tattoo etc)?
ThanisKartaleon 09-28-04, 08:22 PM	...do artificers also have the ability to choose item creation feats from other published sources without needing to qualify for their prerequisites (such as inscribe runes, craft crystal capacitors, inscribe tattoo etc)? I would say sure, just keep the power of the feat in line with the one you're swapping out for it. But not for psionic items. Psionics is a different form of energy. It's like magic, but it's not magic. A "psionic artificer" variant would definitely pick those up, though.
eRaz0r 10-01-04, 02:44 PM	I am sorry that I didn't mention the races of the entire party. We are all going to be warforged. Now I am not sure if this changes your replies or not but I figured that was a bit of an important part that I left out. Thanks to everyone who replied. I really appreciate the answers. :) Thanks Once Again ~Forged_Mistress~ Well, the Arcane caster will suffer from ASF in his Composite Plating, which makes Sorcerer less appealing to a warforged. Bard, on the other hand could be good, as long as you don't take the Adamantium or Mithral Body feats... I think with all warforged, you'll find the Fighter roles to be quite appealing. A Ranger with some free Fighter levels. A Warforged Fighter with a lot of Barbarian levels is also a good match up. As for casting.. 5% ASF isn't that bad, I guess. I'd consider a WF Wizard over Sorcerer, because of the Charisma penalty, and I'd consider Cleric as another option, because even with the Wisdom penalty, you'll never suffer from ASF, and you can make a great self-buffing character who won't really have to worry about being healer, because the Artificer will do that.... On the other hand, the Artificer could always enhance the Wizards composite plating with Twilight enchantment (+1 equivalent) from BoED to eliminate the 5% ASF and he'd be pretty cool as well...
eRaz0r 10-01-04, 02:46 PM	I would say sure, just keep the power of the feat in line with the one you're swapping out for it. But not for psionic items. Psionics is a different form of energy. It's like magic, but it's not magic. A "psionic artificer" variant would definitely pick those up, though. I'd say "no". Artificers aren't spell casters and as such, do not qualify for Item Creation feats outside of their progression. IIRC. You're free to house-rule otherwise.
eRaz0r 10-01-04, 02:50 PM	Thanis - I like your house rules and clarifications. They actually tend to make a certain amount of sense, which seems rare these days. :)