Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cooked_Auto 01-22-06, 07:03 PM	My younger bro is driving me sorta nuts when it comes to playing D&D. He always makes up the most insane and annoying things before we have even started playing. Especially using stuff he's read in other books we dont have. Which I can definatley counter by saying no. It's gonna get worse when we get the book in question (Arms & equipment). And now for our new (third) attempt he's gotten a friend of his to play a Artificier. Who is equally insane on making up ideas. (And they have been planning stuff together, such as ballista wagons. dwarfen tunnelers, etc. All because my bro saw it in the A&E) So he has his mind on doing a Shredder or a small mech so to say. Which is making me sorta annoyed as I get the feeling it will be the only thing he will think about. So I'm asking how should I explain that his plan will fail for quite a while. As I see it doing a thing like that requires craft wondrous item and at least a caster level of 9 or something. And also cost gold in the millions. So it wont be done in at least a few levels. But what more can I use to counter it?
Phantomcrossing 01-22-06, 07:54 PM	I'd say try to tell him to chill and focus less on the stuff, and more on his character. Arms and equipment guide is a set of valid rules, with available erratta to update it to 3.5 Its vehicle rules are good. It has some sound equipmen, both magical and otherwise. In all honesty, if someone has the power to make or attempt to make something, they can. The harder you tell them it doesn't work the more they'll want to do it. If they are trying to make a "mech" tell them its the equivalent to making golem armor, which can't get done till epics. Or simply refuse to run any games for him because he's being a brat about it. If he's flat out telling you he is gonna do something, not asking if its okay if he can do something, that's a different story. You are the DM, remind him of that. Its not about the stuff, its about the adventure. If he makes something like the dwarven tunnler, just don't give him the opportunity to utilize it if he's been pestering you about doing it. I've been in that position, the one of you brother, and I've tried hard to grow out of it. Talk to him, try and work this out without degenerating to outrageous in game events.
Edymnion 01-22-06, 08:21 PM	Tell him that it doesn't exist, and that he would have to invent it from scratch. But since his character wouldn't know that those things invented, give him an absurdly high Engineering check DC to meet, like 35-40, in order to think outside of the box enough to be able to even think of it. Then he would have to design the thing, which would take more checks in a differant skill. Then he'd either have to build it himself (which would require more checks in crafting skills), or get someone else to build it for him (which would require him to draw up detailed plans, which would be another high check). Basically, make it so that he's going to have to have very high ranks in a LOT of differant skills just for the idea to enter the realm of possibility, then make him do the research and design (which will requires lots of gold and time), then build prototypes that may or may not work, etc. Basically, if he wants to invest the entire character into the one idea, and it will take him the entire game to do it, no harm done. But more hopefully, it'll be enough to make him go "Crap, thats too much trouble, lets try something else" and then you won't have to worry with it.
Nightshade 01-22-06, 09:11 PM	You should let him do it. But it should require numerous Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, Knowledge (architecture & engineering), several craft skills (like carpentry and metalworking), and appraisal rolls (for materials). All of those rolls should be at very high DC too. In addition, it should be incredibly expensive, something similar to the cost of the apparatus of Kwalish which costs 90,000 gp. Obviously the artificer would require the craft wondrous items feat which he gets at third level. The aparatus of Kwalish requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) - that'd be 5th level at the earliest. You might think of instituting that rule or something similar for complex creations. Make sure the XP cost is appropriately high too.
Phantomcrossing 01-22-06, 09:30 PM	Huh, actually why would he even need to build a device that would be a giant drill. Check magic of Eberron, the tumbler, an earth elemental bound vehicle, travels through the earth as though an earth elemental.
Jaek 01-23-06, 01:39 PM	There's also the simple yet effective old stand-by response of older siblings in dealing with younger brothers, the Noogie. Next time he starts a conversation with a "Hey I was thinking..." or "Hey can I..." respond only by rubbing your knuckles vigorously and firmly on his noggin. Eldest of four brothers here and even with the youngest now being 18 it still works for me. :)
DragonWatcher 01-23-06, 03:05 PM	Another effective tool of fraternal diplomacy is the wedgie... Anyhoo... keep in mind the cost of the things that he's trying to create. If he wants to build something that costs 100,000 gp (let alone anything in the millions), it's fairly simple to NEVER give him that much cash. Watch the treasure that you give... both in terms of cash and magic items. If he has enough resources to liquidate into 100,000 gp at any time before he's like 15th level... you're probably doing something wrong as a DM. Just because he wants it, doesn't mean that he can afford it.