Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amaril 11-13-07, 01:01 AM	Now that it's officially announced (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberron/216507200), what can you tell us about the final Eberron book for D&D v3.5?
Nlogue 11-13-07, 01:53 AM	Now that it's officially announced (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberron/216507200), what can you tell us about the final Eberron book for D&D v3.5? This book is awesome. Unlike any city book that has come before it is like a Devil-DM's Cookbook for incredible adventures in and around Stormreach. I had so much fun working on this book. Keith is awesome to work with, and it was incredibly wild jamming with him. The book has tons of info on Stormreach's seediest shadiest places and personalities, and I got to do a cool write-up on the Red Ring, in which my goal was to hook the DM up with everything they need to run a bloodletting, crowd thundering gladiator campaign, complete with behind the scenes intrigue of the various stables of note. A sprawling criminal underworld, Dragonmarked and Five Nation espionage, a wild cattle call of explorers, big game hunters, adventurers, and mercenaries. It's like Morocco or Mos Eisley for Eberron. I think people will really dig this one.
Hellcow 11-13-07, 08:12 AM	A sprawling criminal underworld, Dragonmarked and Five Nation espionage, a wild cattle call of explorers, big game hunters, adventurers, and mercenaries. It's like Morocco or Mos Eisley for Eberron. Honestly, I can't add much to what Nic's already said. It's the same sort of book as Sharn: City of Towers, but where Sharn is in the heart of civilization, Stormreach is on the very edge. As a (surprise!) fan of Casablanca, I wanted to consider the impact that the Last War has had on Stormreach - the exiles, the refugees, the war criminals and disidents who have taken shelter outside the reach of the Five Nations. I also really wanted to do more with the Giants of Rusheme, to give a little insight into the culture and beliefs of the giants that live in the shadow of their ancient city. Honestly, the biggest problem I had with this book is that I wanted to write the whole thing - there's just so many interesting things to cover. Nic and I in particular had to armwrestle to see who'd get to work on the Bilge Rats and some of the other organizations, though it all worked out in the end!
larry_the_titan 11-13-07, 08:21 AM	Great now I am straped for cash you have to make another book that I have to buy now. If the book is anything like Sharn it will be a must buy.
Nlogue 11-13-07, 08:57 AM	Honestly, the biggest problem I had with this book is that I wanted to write the whole thing - there's just so many interesting things to cover. Nic and I in particular had to armwrestle to see who'd get to work on the Bilge Rats and some of the other organizations, though it all worked out in the end! ::Nick massages sore arm:: Well done sir. An honor and a pleasure to work with you as always Keith!
Amaril 11-13-07, 11:35 AM	Thanks, I was a bit skeptical about this book as the capstone to Eberron's 3.5 run, but I'm looking forward to it now! Personal note: When I first read Secrets of Xen'drik, I had a love hate thing going on with the Stormreach section. I found that it consumed too much space for such vague information. Then I heard about City of Stormreach, and I was a little annoyed that this would be the final 3.5 book for Eberron considering that Stormreach was covered in Secrets of Xen'drik, rendering the Stormreach section in Secrets of Xen'drik as wasted pages. When I ran Grasp of the Emerald Claw, however, I became enamored by Stormreach. I loved what I read, and I wanted more, especially in regards to the half-giants and giants within and outside of the city (they played a big role in the RPing after the adventure was concluded (no pun intended)). Now, I'm looking forward to City of Stormreach. It very much reminds me of a combination of Mos Eisley and Casablanca (some places in Q'barra could be a close second), and I can't wait to read through it. I just hope that I won't have to flip back and forth between the two books to gather all of the details about Stormreach. While it might be frustrating for some to have duplicated information in City of Stormreach, I'd rather it be consolidated in one book than to have to flip back and forth between two books. (I already find it frustrating to have to flip through Sharn: City of Towers, Explorer's Handbook, and Secrets of Xen'drik to get information about travelling to Stormreach and dealing with the Sahuagin and Shargon's Teeth.)
Hellcow 11-13-07, 12:23 PM	I just hope that I won't have to flip back and forth between the two books to gather all of the details about Stormreach. I don't think you will. There are some tangental subjects that aren't covered in both books - for example, when it left my hands, CoS didn't have anything about methods of transportation to take you to Stormreach, just as Sharn doesn't have a section on "Getting to Sharn"... while SoX has the whole "Getting There" section. SoX is a broad guide to adventures in Xen'drik, and you basically get just enough information about Stormreach to provide color as you pass through. While CoS could, in my opinion, support entire campaigns set entirely within Stormreach.
Arcane Guyver 11-13-07, 12:32 PM	Sounds like a fantastic book so far. Gotta love the enthusiasm, and along with your combined track records, it's hard to not be excited about this one.
Burch 11-13-07, 01:25 PM	First, I'm looking forward to adding this book to my collection. Xen'Drik is a popular destination for my groups. However, I have one concern. Unlike any city book that has come before it is like a Devil-DM's Cookbook for incredible adventures in and around Stormreach. This seems to imply that the book will be edition neutral in terms of content. Surely we'll get statblocks if nothing else, right?
naturax 11-13-07, 01:49 PM	This seems to imply that the book will be edition neutral in terms of content. Surely we'll get statblocks if nothing else, right? I read somewhere that they are going to provide conversions to 4E for the last two Eberron books printed.
Arryn 11-13-07, 03:09 PM	This is probably a stupid question and actually quite pointless since I don't play the game, but are any of the features from DDO in this book? (ie. NPC's, Factions, Storylines?) Like I said I don't actually play the game, but for some reason I am interested in the answer... sue me.
Hellcow 11-13-07, 03:11 PM	This seems to imply that the book will be edition neutral in terms of content. No, it's got crunch. What I've heard is that they'll release a conversion for 4E when the system comes out. But we wrote it for 3.5, with a wide range of crunchy stuff (organizations, stat blocks, magical locations, and things like Nic's gladiatorial stuff).
Hellcow 11-13-07, 03:34 PM	This is probably a stupid question and actually quite pointless since I don't play the game, but are any of the features from DDO in this book? (ie. NPC's, Factions, Storylines?) CoS is a sourcebook for the tabletop D&D game. As such, as designers our first priority was to ensure that the depiction of Stormreach was in line with the continuity of tabletop Eberron, including existing references to Stormreach and also events mentioned in other sourcebooks that should have impact in the city. As DDO doesn't have a few of the main races, psionics, or regular traffic with Khorvaire, there's simply things that it can't do; you can't have a shifter street gang if your don't have shifters. So wherever the two are in conflict, we have erred in the favor of the tabletop game. With that said, we have brought in elements from DDO's depiction of the city. So the DDO player will recognize some of the NPCs, locations, and other elements. But he will also probably say "Who are these 'Bilge Rats'? What's an 'Inspired'? What's the 'Du'rashka Tul'?" Essentially, we want the book to be an interesting read for anyone who plays DDO or D&D - but it is first and foremost a D&D sourcebook, not a DDO strategy guide.
Nived 11-13-07, 04:17 PM	Been awhile since I played DDO, but I will be keeping an eye open for referances to DDO locations and NPCs. I'm looking forward to this book. Always did like Stormreach and Xen'drik.
Burch 11-13-07, 06:58 PM	No, it's got crunch. What I've heard is that they'll release a conversion for 4E when the system comes out. But we wrote it for 3.5, with a wide range of crunchy stuff (organizations, stat blocks, magical locations, and things like Nic's gladiatorial stuff). I am much relieved. Thank you!
Amaril 11-13-07, 07:42 PM	By the way, will we see more of Hassalac Chaar and the draconists in the temple area? I really liked them in The Shattered Land and was pleased to see them mentioned in Secrets of Xen'drik.
Alter_Boy 11-14-07, 08:23 PM	Nicholas, by chance, will this book mention the estranged daughter of a famous Sharn Inquisitive, Victoria Saint-Demain? ;) :P
Nlogue 11-14-07, 09:29 PM	Nicholas, by chance, will this book mention the estranged daughter of a famous Sharn Inquisitive, Victoria Saint-Demain? ;) :P Ha! Nope. I did want to do a cool section on Murder Mysteries in Stormreach, but alas, there was not the words for it, who knows, maybe I can do it up as a web enhancement.
Nived 11-14-07, 09:42 PM	I am just curious I can't keep myself from asking. While writting Stormreach either of you log into DDO to walk around the rendered representation of the city, you know for kicks?
Nlogue 11-14-07, 11:37 PM	I am just curious I can't keep myself from asking. While writting Stormreach either of you log into DDO to walk around the rendered representation of the city, you know for kicks? Ha! I was required to actually. I'd never played it before, so I was supposed to log in some time before I started writing. I suck at MMORGS, so I had a friend send me some screen captures. Pretty cool.
gensuke626 11-17-07, 06:52 PM	Ha! I was required to actually. I'd never played it before, so I was supposed to log in some time before I started writing. I suck at MMORGS, so I had a friend send me some screen captures. Pretty cool. Don't worry Nick, you weren't missing out on much. Not to get down on anything Eberron related (Cause I'm a fanboy) but DDO made me cry alittle inside...It made my soul weep so much that I started writing up a standard Table-top Adventure just to make myself feel better...but that's a story for later. I'm excited that Stormreach is something that will be eating my wallet in the near future...though is it wrong of me to say "At last! Stormreach as it should have always been!"?
Nlogue 11-18-07, 01:35 AM	Don't worry Nick, you weren't missing out on much. Not to get down on anything Eberron related (Cause I'm a fanboy) but DDO made me cry alittle inside...It made my soul weep so much that I started writing up a standard Table-top Adventure just to make myself feel better...but that's a story for later. I'm excited that Stormreach is something that will be eating my wallet in the near future...though is it wrong of me to say "At last! Stormreach as it should have always been!"? Heh! Hope all is treating you awesome gensuke! I miss Hawai'i like mad! Hope the department is being good to you my man!
Rechan 11-18-07, 03:44 PM	According to the Yaun-ti article, there are some Yaun-ti in Xen'drik. Will we be seeing any of those in Stormreach? :)
Hellcow 11-18-07, 04:02 PM	According to the Yaun-ti article, there are some Yaun-ti in Xen'drik. Will we be seeing any of those in Stormreach? :) While it's been announced, I haven't seen the edited manuscript, so it's really too soon for me to answer narrow questions like this or about Hassalac; one of us might have written a big yuan-ti section which ends up being pulled for some reason, and I feel it's unprofessional to set up that sort of expectation. In answer to this specific question, I'll simply say that we certainly did consider the known intelligent species of Xen'drik - drow, giants, yuan-ti and others - and it's likely that you'll at least see some mention of the impact they have on the city.
pooh10 11-18-07, 06:20 PM	hi huw or you
Amaril 01-27-08, 01:20 AM	Thought I'd bump this thread for further discussion of this book seeing as how it will be published in a few weeks.
Hellcow 01-27-08, 01:45 AM	Ex-cellent... now we can let the big secrets out. Personally, one of the things I'm really proud of is the way in which we completely reimagined the city. We wanted to create an adventuring environment unlike anything you've every played in before. And that's how we came up with the core idea: Stormreach: City of Chocolate. You see, the Cul'sir giants used chocolate as their core building material, and the city is literally carved out of these chocolate ruins of ancient times. Each ward of the city has a different cocoa content. Let me tell you, this is a truly delicious supplement! And lest anyone have the slightest doubt, I am making all of that up. But doesn't it sound tasty?
skrap-san 01-27-08, 02:16 AM	Aaaw and I thought it was going to be made out of bread and coffee beans :P
Arcane Guyver 01-27-08, 06:49 AM	But doesn't it sound tasty? No! It's downright unsettling! I mean, there's bound to be a few dragons who've had the idea to fire-breathe the crap out of Stormreach, turning it into the biggest dessert fondue in history. Then there'd be debates on what tastes better, chocolate-covered gnomes or drow, and then, are they better cooked dead or alive? Darn dragons...
ddocast 01-27-08, 01:50 PM	Hi everyone! My name is Jerry Snook and I'm the host of a podcast about Dungeons and Dragons Online, the MMO created by Turbine, Wotc, Hasbro and Atari. Reason I'm writing on THESE boards is that this week's show features an interview with Keith Baker about his upcoming book "City of Stormreach". Figured some folks here might be interested in it. Here's a LINK (http://www.cyberears.com/cybrss/2399.mp3) to the episode - left-click to stream, right-click and 'save as' to download as an mp3. You can also find the podcast on iTunes and many other podcast aggregators. Thanks! Jerry host, DDOcast
Amaril 01-27-08, 02:52 PM	Obviously WotC doesn't give a damn! It was made very apparent that Stormreach ws made out of rock candy in previous books and now they go changing it to chocolate. As hot as Stormreach gets, it would melt very quickly. They'll probably retcon it as some sort of weird effect of the cataclysm. Good going WotC! All kidding aside, I'm excited about having a sourcebook for Stormreach. Listening to that podcast now.
Amaril 01-28-08, 10:22 AM	Keith, in the thread 15 versus 16 gods (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984081), you mentioned that topic being addressed in City of Stormreach.I didn't write the section, but I believe it's in PGtE. It's actually a faith that emerged among the goblins AFTER the empire fell; the Dhakaani Empire was agnostic. As for the giants, it's in Secrets of Xen'drik - but will also be covered in more detail in the upcoming City of Stormreach. Is this a reference to the new deity to be introduced in the upcoming DDO module mentioned in the Dev Diary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080114a)? Is that deity responsible for the Chocolate City? Does Xen'drik experience chocolate rain?
larry_the_titan 01-28-08, 10:55 AM	Does Xen'drik experience chocolate rain? :uh-huh: This concept worries me greatly.
Fabius Maximus 01-28-08, 10:57 AM	Yeah, but this only happens in Xoriat manifest zones.
Amaril 01-28-08, 10:59 AM	:uh-huh: This concept worries me greatly. I'm not sure of whether or not you caught the reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA), but for those who might not have...
eehamburg 01-28-08, 12:04 PM	I wonder .... if we leave the City of Chocolate into the heart of Xen'Drik, will we be able to solve the Great Fudge Mystery?
Hellcow 01-28-08, 12:10 PM	Keith, in the thread 15 versus 16 gods (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984081), you mentioned that topic being addressed in City of Stormreach. I wasn't actually talking about the 15 vs 16 issue; the OP had also asked about the pantheon of the giants. Stormreach goes into more detail about the giants of Rusheme and their beliefs, which would appear to be a different interpretation of the Sovereigns (though in point of fact, they don't even worship 15). As for the would-be god in DDO, He's not the first person to have had this sort of aspiration; the founder of the Library of Korranberg hoped to displace Aureon. But if it was possible to truly become a go, it would presumably result in entering the same higher plane holding the current gods, meaning you'd never know if he'd succeeded or simply vanished; as such, I'd say that what he's truly trying to do is gain semi-divine power while maintaining a physical existence, meaning that he's closer to a rajah. In fact, if I was writing the story, I'd porbably say that he was trying to draw the power off of a rajah - something some of the Lords of Dust themselves are interested in.
Amaril 02-19-08, 03:49 PM	Anyone got their hands on this book yet?
naturax 02-19-08, 04:38 PM	Anyone got their hands on this book yet? Apparently mine's in the mail. I'm going to start a game set there on www.myth-weavers.com as soon as I get it, so I really can't wait.
Nomadicc 02-20-08, 12:41 PM	I picked it up yesterday... looks awesome, as expected! :) I have only been able to peruse through, and I've read the introduction. Has a lot of info on the city wards, shops, NPCs, and power groups... and there's a healthy section for adventures in and out of the city. Major Sections are: I. Introduction (incl. history) 15 pages II. Life in Stormreach (architecture, law, religion, art, festivals) 12 pages III. Districts & Wards (lots of details) 23 pages IV. Power & Politics (major power groups) 37 pages V. Members Only (nine factions to join/confront) 32 pages VI. Beyond the City (adventures around) 14 pages VII. Urban Adventres 23 pages I can't wait to use it - my group is just wrapping up -Grasp of the Emerald Claw-, and I forsee some Stormreach action in the near future. BTW - I love the DDO crossovers (NPCs, shops)! Not really a complaint, b/c the book appears excellent, but I wish there was a little more crunch... especially since the last few Eberron books (FoW, DoE) were "crunch-lite".
naturax 02-20-08, 12:49 PM	I picked it up yesterday... looks awesome, as expected! :) ... Not really a complaint, b/c the book appears excellent, but I wish there was a little more crunch... especially since the last few Eberron books (FoW, DoE) were "crunch-lite". Sounds perfect! I can't wait for my copy. I never use the crunch out of the books in any case, so I'm glad to hear that space was used on much-appreciated fluff.
Hellcow 02-20-08, 12:57 PM	Not really a complaint, b/c the book appears excellent, but I wish there was a little more crunch... especially since the last few Eberron books (FoW, DoE) were "crunch-lite". The issue with crunch is that it's going to turn to dust in a few months for anyone who wants to convert their campaign to 4E; as a result, the emphasis was more on flavor that would remain constant. In terms of player options, there are a few things - a handful of feats, a few class options, a few spells - but the bulk of the crunch comes in the form of nine organizations players can join, along with affiliation benefits. While these benefits will still need an transition to fit 4E, the bulk of the entry will remain valid for both... while something like a prestige class might not work at all. So, it's a tricky road to walk, being the last book before 4E. I think there's good material that will be useful both to people who keep their campaigns in 3.5 and those who jump them to 4E, but if you have the opportunity it's always worth looking at the book and judging for yourself.
naturax 02-20-08, 03:12 PM	I picked it up yesterday... looks awesome, as expected! :) I'm too impatient to wait for my book to arrive, so please tell me: what kind of movement is going on in the city? There must be conflict in the same vein as the Daask vs Boromar described in S:CoT, yes? So, even briefly, what kinds of schemes are being hatched?
Nomadicc 02-20-08, 11:09 PM	Probably not allowed to give specifics, and I haven't read that much yet anyway... but nearly 70 pages are devoted to plots, factions and powers-that-be. You can bet its filled with tasty intrigue (especially with Kieth and Nick at the helm)! :) About the "crunch" - like I said, not a complaint, per se... I think 3.5 is overblown with crunch, in general. I totally understand the conversion conundrum...
Nomadicc 02-20-08, 11:15 PM	PS - I miss Wayne Reynolds... (though the cover art is good, to me WR and Eberron is like Dark Sun and Brom)
Amaril 02-21-08, 12:25 PM	I got my copy last night as well, but between a visits from some friends and family and setting up the new touchscreen programmable remote control that also arrived last night, I didn't get to read much of it. What little bit I did glance at looked interesting, but I only saw bits and pieces. I'm looking forward to reading through it when I have the chance. I do like the comic chapter intro featuring Shadow and Spike (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fict/20060612a). :) I, too, miss WAR's cover art. It didn't feel right. In fact, that wierd thing in the water just looked awful. I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be a specific creature or just some shapeless aberration. Also, still no scale on the map of Stormreach. :(
Amaril 02-21-08, 12:27 PM	(though the cover art is good, to me WR and Eberron is like Dark Sun and Brom) I feel the same exact way. It's as bothersome as the change in art design for Races of Eberron. v3.5 Eberron books have a look and feel that is very distinct, and any deviation from that throws off the whole theme. I suspect part of the reason might have something to do with WAR's work with Paizo's Pathfinder series.
davethebrave371 02-23-08, 12:52 PM	I just picked it up and have been reading through it at random, jumping here and there. I'll give it a solid read soon, but this is shaping up to displace something in my top 5 Eberron sourcebooks. I love it to bits. And while I love Prescott's work, I still think WAR and Eberron are, as someone else pointed out, like Brom and Dark Sun. But other than that, I haven't found a single thing to complain about. I loved the random Lords hook grab-bag for DMs when I saw it in SoX, and I love it more now that I have more detail on a) the Lords and b) the backgrounds. I wish there had been a little more on the Qabalrain, but that's about it, and what there was still got me excited. Two big thumbs up for this book, and like I said, after finishing it, it could very well have a place in my personal top 5.
Nlogue 02-24-08, 11:46 AM	I just picked it up and have been reading through it at random, jumping here and there. I'll give it a solid read soon, but this is shaping up to displace something in my top 5 Eberron sourcebooks. I love it to bits. And while I love Prescott's work, I still think WAR and Eberron are, as someone else pointed out, like Brom and Dark Sun. But other than that, I haven't found a single thing to complain about. I loved the random Lords hook grab-bag for DMs when I saw it in SoX, and I love it more now that I have more detail on a) the Lords and b) the backgrounds. I wish there had been a little more on the Qabalrain, but that's about it, and what there was still got me excited. Two big thumbs up for this book, and like I said, after finishing it, it could very well have a place in my personal top 5. If Qabalrain is on your wish list Dave, I think you'll be happy with an upcoming DDI adventure...oh yes...I think so... :)
Hellcow 02-24-08, 02:42 PM	If Qabalrain is on your wish list Dave, I think you'll be happy with an upcoming DDI adventure...oh yes...I think so... :) I just hope you spelled their name correctly in the adventure, Nic - it's Qabalrin. ;)
Nlogue 02-24-08, 06:43 PM	I just hope you spelled their name correctly in the adventure, Nic - it's Qabalrin. ;) Dude, I mis spell everything in Eberron! I suck! :( For the longest time I spelled it Ebberon...I wish I was kidding. I blame hooked on phonics.
doubtofbuddha 02-24-08, 08:54 PM	Hey, Antaegus is listed as being able to move about without being seen. However he seems to lack the magic to do so, and considering he is Huge I doubt he can walk down the street without people noticing him. :D Is there a mistake in his stat block or in the text?
Hellcow 02-24-08, 09:39 PM	Is there a mistake in his stat block or in the text? Stat Block. Antaegus is essentially a storm giant with the primordial giant template from Secrets of Xen'drik. As such, he is supposed to have invisibilty as an at-will ability.
doubtofbuddha 02-24-08, 09:46 PM	Okay, just wondering. I doubt I am going to use him before 4e comes out (my PCs are 3rd level) so it was more a matter of curiosity than anything else. :) Otherwise, great book. Easily in my Top 3 of favorite city books ever (the other two being Ptolus and Sharn.) I am still trying to decide if I like it better than Sharn... Thanks for the response!
naturax 02-24-08, 09:54 PM	I have another question! For the adamants it says that their top ranking members get their damage reduction improved by 10 once per day. How long is that effect supposed to last? Thanks!
davethebrave371 02-24-08, 10:45 PM	If Qabalrain is on your wish list Dave, I think you'll be happy with an upcoming DDI adventure...oh yes...I think so... :) Why are you always in my brain, Mr. Logue?
Hellcow 02-24-08, 11:20 PM	I have another question! For the adamants it says that their top ranking members get their damage reduction improved by 10 once per day. How long is that effect supposed to last? Thanks! I'd personally consider it to be an immediate action you can use in response to be struck by an attack, and which would then last until the start of your next turn. So you might end up getting protected from a few attacks in the bargain, but it is intended as a short-term thing.
naturax 02-25-08, 01:06 PM	I'd personally consider it to be an immediate action you can use in response to be struck by an attack, and which would then last until the start of your next turn. So you might end up getting protected from a few attacks in the bargain, but it is intended as a short-term thing. Thanks! I really appreciate you being available for these types of questions.
naturax 02-25-08, 04:57 PM	Something I'm trying to wrap my head around with regards to Stormreach is how pirates can operate in the region if the city is the only port of call. Let's say a boat belonging to one of the Five Nations leaves Sharn and pirates want to plunder it. Can they operate out of anywhere but Stormreach? If not, do they have to sail under a different flag all the time? And does that oblige them to sink every ship they steal from, so that it doesn't show up at the same port as them a few weeks later and start making a fuss?
Hellcow 02-25-08, 05:13 PM	Something I'm trying to wrap my head around with regards to Stormreach is how pirates can operate in the region if the city is the only port of call. Let's say a boat belonging to one of the Five Nations leaves Sharn and pirates want to plunder it. Can they operate out of anywhere but Stormreach? First off, Stormreach was FOUNDED by pirates, but in theory the Storm Lords agreed to halt the practice of piracy when they made their agreement with Galifar circa 800 YK. Check the description of the Storm Lord families and you'll see that the emphasis is on the transition these families have had to make to reach an honest (well, landbound) living. The golden age of piracy is past. Beyond that, Stormreach is the major city of Xen'drik, but smugglers and pirates had countless hidden havens scattered along the coastline. None of these could be called cities, but certainly they were places to stash loot and make repairs; you'd go to Stormreach every so often to dispose of your ill-gotten gains. But no, it's not that every pirate in the Thunder Sea sailed out of Stormreach on every single voyage. After all, one primary target for piracy was Riedran shipping out of Dar Qat, and another being Aereni shipping to the east. So Stormreach was the smuggler's capital and the place to actually SELL your goods, to pick up a crew, and so on - but most pirates had their own hidden havens. Which means there may be buried treasures or similar things scattered anywhere along the coast!
naturax 02-25-08, 05:25 PM	First off, Stormreach was FOUNDED by pirates, but in theory the Storm Lords agreed to halt the practice of piracy when they made their agreement with Galifar circa 800 YK. Check the description of the Storm Lord families and you'll see that the emphasis is on the transition these families have had to make to reach an honest (well, landbound) living. The golden age of piracy is past. Beyond that, Stormreach is the major city of Xen'drik, but smugglers and pirates had countless hidden havens scattered along the coastline. None of these could be called cities, but certainly they were places to stash loot and make repairs; you'd go to Stormreach every so often to dispose of your ill-gotten gains. But no, it's not that every pirate in the Thunder Sea sailed out of Stormreach on every single voyage. After all, one primary target for piracy was Riedran shipping out of Dar Qat, and another being Aereni shipping to the east. So Stormreach was the smuggler's capital and the place to actually SELL your goods, to pick up a crew, and so on - but most pirates had their own hidden havens. Which means there may be buried treasures or similar things scattered anywhere along the coast! Now the pieces are fitting together. Thanks again!
Thaliost 02-25-08, 06:20 PM	Don't know if it's appropriate to ask here but I found no such info anywhere. Is there going to be DDO2 or something equivalent after 4E? I played DDO for a while but found that was not what I sought. It's got good game machenisms and good graphics, but you know, it's no more than 1% of Eberron. So I've been lurking around to see if a brand new Eberron game is coming up with 4E, preferrably an online one which I can play with friends?
Hellcow 02-25-08, 06:24 PM	Don't know if it's appropriate to ask here but I found no such info anywhere. Is there going to be DDO2 or something equivalent after 4E? I'm a freelance writer for WotC and have no connection to Atari or Turbine, so I'm afraid that I have no idea.
Thaliost 02-25-08, 06:27 PM	I'm a freelance writer for WotC and have no connection to Atari or Turbine, so I'm afraid that I have no idea. I see. It's good to know anyway. Thank you.
Nived 02-26-08, 01:53 AM	Picked up the book and am very pleased with it. I played DDO off and on, currently off, and I was greatly amused by some of the inclusions and little jokes. Baudry Caramon, Barigan Enge, Lord Gerard Goodblade, good stuff. Little alusions to some of the quests and locals. Of course there were differences. Many I expected, like the Red Ring I knew of from SoX, some were very pleasant suprises. I'll say I haven't read the whole book yet, I've read the first two chapters and been grinning the whole time. I've walked the streets of Stormreach digitally, but the city has never been alive for me till I read this. The districts, the people the personalities, familiar and unfamiliar. Each one feeding ideas and plots. But more than anything else, I love the idea of The Scar that Abides. I have found my new favorite Big Bad of Eberron, and will feature prominately in the first 4E game I run. Oh yes.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 02-26-08, 09:35 AM	My copy just arrived, I've flicked through it, and I can already tell I'm going to love it. The art gets a thumbs up. Prescott's spread isn't as good as Reynold's, but I think it's an improvement on the one in DoE. I can't say much about the writing just yet, but I've read a few of the sidebars. The 'Overheard in...' sections are great, and after reading 'Twenty Shards of Wisdom' on page 115, I can't wait to read the rest of the Hollow Shards section. Expect more from me once I've had chance to digest the book properly.
Nomadicc 02-27-08, 07:03 PM	More of an editorial glitch than a typo, but throughout the entire book the founders of Stormreach are listed as the "Storm Lords", except for the sidebar on page 58 where they are called "Coin Lords", ala DDO. I noted in SoX the Storm Lords were combined group of the Harbor Lord and the four Coin Lords. In CoS, only mentions this in passing on pg 17. The rest of the book refers to them all as Storm Lords. Maybe I'm just confusing myself... :rolleyes: Regardless, I'm about 90 pages into it, and it is par excellence!! Truly loaded with great adventure ideas. On a sidebar topic, I'm surprised there is such a heavy dose of nationalistic power groups in Stormreach. Perhaps they're just the vocal minority, but I kinda figured the Khorvairian expatriates in Stormreach would generally lean towards the moderate, sick of war types that aren't as concerned about nationality, politics, etc. One of the draws of living in Stormreach is the ability to get away from the political wrangling on Khorvaire. Obviously a cosmopolitan city of its kind is going to be a mixed bag, but I didn't think they'd be so prominent.
davethebrave371 02-28-08, 01:40 AM	I've just finished reading it both jumping all over the place and cross-referencing to SoX, and then cover to cover. One question jumps to mind, but I know there are more I'm forgetting: What type of giant are Cul'sir giants supposed to be? The stat block doesn't make it very clear.
Hellcow 02-28-08, 01:51 AM	I noted in SoX the Storm Lords were combined group of the Harbor Lord and the four Coin Lords. In CoS, only mentions this in passing on pg 17. The rest of the book refers to them all as Storm Lords. Interesting - that actually was an editorial change. Looking back to the original manuscript, on page 13 hooks 2 and 3 in the list of adventure ideas refered to the individuals as "Coin Lords" as opposed to "Storm Lords" (and that's just one example). So yes, originally "Coin Lord" was used more often, and the editors made a decision to shift it. But the fact of the matter is that both the Coin Lords and the Harbor Lord ARE Storm Lords; "Storm Lord" is the umbrella title that covers both groups. On a sidebar topic, I'm surprised there is such a heavy dose of nationalistic power groups in Stormreach. Perhaps they're just the vocal minority, but I kinda figured the Khorvairian expatriates in Stormreach would generally lean towards the moderate, sick of war types that aren't as concerned about nationality, politics, etc. One of the draws of living in Stormreach is the ability to get away from the political wrangling on Khorvaire. Obviously a cosmopolitan city of its kind is going to be a mixed bag, but I didn't think they'd be so prominent. You're essentially dealing with three very different types of people. Let's use Thrane as our example. First you have the expatriate in the full, traditional sense of the world: someone who has either been forcibly exiled or who has voluntarily turned his back on his homeland, renouncing his history. Such a person probably won't live in Embers; he came to Stormreach to get away from Thrane. He's not going to have anything to do with the Knights of Thrane; if anything, he may actively oppose them, as people who epitomize the culture he sought to escape. Then you have the immigrant: the person who came to Stormreach in search of opportunity. These are the people who make up the bulk of the "national" districts. They never abandoned the traditions of their culture; while many of the people of Embers have never even laid eyes on Thrane, they are still proud of their Thranish heritage and their faith. Their ancestors weren't driven from their home, and they may still correspond with relatives in "the old country" or plan to relocate some day. They run Thranish restaurants, sell clothing in the Thranish style, etc. And when they hear about some atrocity Karrnath commited against Thrane, they get angry - and take out their anger on the people of Grindstone, the closest outlet the have. And then you have those few who have come to Stormreach precisely because they still believe in the war - and because they CAN'T find an outlet for that anger in the Five Naitons under the treaty of Thronehold. The Thrane commando who wants to make Karrns pay (they took first blood, after all) - and if his government won't let him do it in Thrane, he'll take the fight to the neutral ground of Stormreach. You have the war criminals who have fled to avoid being prosecuted for their crimes, but who commited those crimes out of dedication to their contry, and whose fervor hasn't faded. These people are absolutely a minority; there's forty people in the Knights of Thrane. But they are skilled, exceptional people whose actions will draw attention - while the painter who doesn't even consider herself to be a Thrane any more and lives in Saltire simply doesn't attract much attention. Stormreach was founded by pirates, but the majority of its population is made up of immigrants from the Five Nations. Most of them came BEFORE the war (though there's been a big influx of Cyrans since the Mourning), but many of them still identify with their ancestral homeland - and that means that you see those national tensions continue to play out. Others don't identify with any nation, and there you have the people of Saltire, Graystone, Summerfield, Respite, and other districts.
Hellcow 02-28-08, 01:55 AM	What type of giant are Cul'sir giants supposed to be? The stat block doesn't make it very clear. They're supposed to be Cul'sir giants - a type of giant that simply doesn't exist in modern Eberron. One of the theories put forth in SoX was that the cataclysmic magics leveled against Stormreach included an effect that caused the ancient giants to devolve - that you didn't used to have hill giants, and that the giants we know have replaced the largely superior ones that came before. Antagus is essentially a storm giant with the eldritch giant template - but the point is that he's not just a storm giant, he's a Cul'sir giant.
Nived 02-28-08, 02:10 AM	Looking ahead to 4e Worlds and Monsters mentioned that the new Giant write ups will further play up their connection their elemental nature and each variety will be presented in both large and huge (called titan) flavors. I think that will suit Eberron just fine.
GRIMACHU 02-28-08, 04:40 AM	Glad this seems to have gone over well. I suppose I should poke these forums more often. :)
davethebrave371 02-28-08, 08:43 AM	They're supposed to be Cul'sir giants - a type of giant that simply doesn't exist in modern Eberron. One of the theories put forth in SoX was that the cataclysmic magics leveled against Stormreach included an effect that caused the ancient giants to devolve - that you didn't used to have hill giants, and that the giants we know have replaced the largely superior ones that came before. Antagus is essentially a storm giant with the eldritch giant template - but the point is that he's not just a storm giant, he's a Cul'sir giant. I was under the impression from several things in both SoX and CoS that they were Titans...or was that an even earlier Cul'sir Empire?
Hellcow 02-28-08, 11:43 AM	I was under the impression from several things in both SoX and CoS that they were Titans...or was that an even earlier Cul'sir Empire? That's even earlier. The emperor who FOUNDED the empire was a titan - but the common citizenry were not. Of course, if 4E directly links the term titan more closely with traditional giants, that may change.
davethebrave371 02-29-08, 01:39 AM	Some specific stuff now that I've read through it more thoroughly and had time to still my spinning head. Stormreach: City of Favourite Uncles should have been the subtitle. Everyone's favourite uncle lives there, from the ex-head of the Paelion line's favourite uncle to that creepy old hunter dude. I love reading a description and seeing "favorite uncle" in it. Thri-Kreen/Dal Quor?! Cool. My DM brain is still exploring and probing different avenues. I might not even use that gnomish thesis, but their disappearance and ability to circumvent (at least partially, if not wholly) the Traveller's Curse, and the ability of the fountain all tie into something...fascinating to me, with or without the Dal Quor angle. Kobolds as pests = moral quandries for my group of generally good aligned adventurers who rarely encounter stupid/savage "monster" races. So I like the mention of them (and the perceptions of them) at the beginning and the adventure seeds at the back end where even the aftermath of the Koboldcaust's expected resolution is wiping them out to the last even harder or face the derision of a supposedly Neutral/Good community that sees you as "failures" for not committing a mass slaughter on a nest of thieves. If they were crafty halflings with their entire community, including children, down there, and people came out soaked in halfling blood proclaiming the total destruction down to the last youngling, it'd be a very different reaction, despite comparable Int, Wis and Cha. I think game designers either forget that kobolds have no mental penalties, or really like providing fodder for alignment change in your average Good-aligned party. Eldamir Fallowcrest...his name is plopped in there under the Lighthouse entry in the Harbour district section like we should know who he is...is he from DDO? Because I have no idea who he's supposed to be. The ir'Clarns have elven blood? Or is it just that particular ir'Clarn in charge of the Brelish embassy? Does Ruken (Rurken? Rukern?) ir'Clarn also have elven blood? Just a point of interest for me. Uskal d'Orien has no dragonmark. Shouldn't he be Uskal Orien? p. 69, there's a mention of Kurn near the end of the Tharask section that seems like it should be Durgran. Krakens and Aboleth are often mentioned in the same breath re: the rajah's equivalents in the depths. I thought (and maybe I'm misremembering) that aboleths were more akin to Xoriat than Khyber and that Krakens were more about their own plots and plans than Khyber's plots and plans. But maybe I never read that anywhere in an Eberron book and am just confused.
Nived 02-29-08, 01:48 AM	I can answer one of your questions. Yes Eldamir Fallowcrest is from DDO. The Twelve wish a rare book (which they claim belong to them) be recovered from his collection. One swims out to his lighthouse asks to go in, he proudly shows you his collection and leaves you to peruse it, as getting his permission for research is one thing. Trying to take one of his books is another. Once you try to take the book in question all sorts of traps go off and you have to fight your way past of undead gaurdians he's created to turn off the traps and make your way out. In fact a short list of names I recognised from DDO, -Aida: in one of the first quests in the game, an optional objective involves returning her necklace that has been stolen by Kobolds. -Berrigan Enge: Representitive of the Coin Lords whom asks characters to assist him in collecting some back taxes. Also points the way to many newbie oriented quests. -Baudry Cartamon: Has a long list of quests that tie directly into him and his business, between him and a Bugbear smuggler named Hazadil. -Capshaw the Crier: The NPC who rewards for Free Agent favor gained in DDO also with every mod and update sends the Stormreach news to everyone's mailbox. -Lord Gerald Goodblade: Everyone in DDO knows Goodblade, one of the first quest givers you run into in the game. The 'little tasks' and the fake magc sword mentioned in his entry are direct referances to his DDO quests, though in DDO he'll tell players if they ask that his first name is actually 'Lord' his mom had high hopes for him. -Tattered Alice: Just a wandering NPC that spouts nonsense. -Three Fingered Thad: Actually he's Four Fingered Thad the first time you meet him in the newbie area, when you get to Stormreach Proper he's reduced himself to Three Fingered Thad. -Sigmond Bauerson: Propriotor of the Wavecrest, every first level character has to do his Old Sully's Grog quest just to leave the Wavecrest. He has Tasty Ham. -Nat Gann: Just a stuntman that can be found in the Marketplace doing stunts on an upright pole, all the information brokering is new to me. Those are the ones I recognise, or at least can remember. There are little tidbits thrown here and there about quests... but there are significant differences. The location of the Twelve Enclave is different, the Red Ring doesn't exist in DDO just a portal that makes moving around the city faster. Sadly no mention of Arlos or Venn in the Waterworks section. I can tell you though while there are little referances and little easter eggs here and there I'd sa 98% of this book is clear of DDO's influance.
Syltorian 02-29-08, 06:33 AM	Uskal d'Orien has no dragonmark. Shouldn't he be Uskal Orien? IIRC, Player's Guide has it that the d' prefix denotes a blood member of the house (as opposed to one who married in or got adopted, I assume), rather than someone who bears the mark. I have seen the other interpretation, but cannot remember where or whether that was ever official... Regarding the book, I'm looking forward to getting it, but right now don't have the time. :(
davethebrave371 02-29-08, 09:00 AM	IIRC, Player's Guide has it that the d' prefix denotes a blood member of the house (as opposed to one who married in or got adopted, I assume), rather than someone who bears the mark. I have seen the other interpretation, but cannot remember where or whether that was ever official... Regarding the book, I'm looking forward to getting it, but right now don't have the time. :( Actually, PGtE mentions that d' is for Marked only. If both of your parents are d'Orien and you don't have a Mark, you're just Orien. Of course, if you manifest a Siberys Mark later in life, you're instantly d'Orien.
Syltorian 02-29-08, 09:25 AM	Actually, PGtE mentions that d' is for Marked only. If both of your parents are d'Orien and you don't have a Mark, you're just Orien. Of course, if you manifest a Siberys Mark later in life, you're instantly d'Orien. I've checked the quote: Sidebar Family Names: To D' or Not to D' (PGtE p.48): "The d' prefix [...] identifies blood families tied to recognized dragonmark houses and sets those born of dragonmarked blood apart from the rest of Khorvaire." It mentions blood ties; the fact whether the Orien is dragonmarked or not is not important according to this sidebar. The way I read this, not only is the Orien heir in your first example d'Orien from his birth, dragonmarked or no, but a half-elf born from a human d'Orien and a half-elf (by DM 61, Orien has no problem with this), although not able to ever manifest the Mark of Passage, will be d'Orien too. Unless his non-human parent was also born into the house, he or she will simply be Orien. This may be superseded or contradicted somewhere, of course, but this is all I could find (in an admittedly very cursory re-reading of the Dragonmark section in the PGtE), and I could not find any clarification in Dragonmarked.
Hellcow 02-29-08, 12:13 PM	I think game designers either forget that kobolds have no mental penalties... Try telling that to Hassalac Chaar - I don't think you'll like the result. Speaking solely for myself (and I didn't write the "Cross Kobolds" adventure), what I'll point out is that HUMANS don't have any mental penalties - and yet, we have our own primitive, savage societies and our own deadly criminals. Savagery doesn't REQUIRE an Int penalty; it's simply easier to justify when you have it. In Hassalac, you have clear evidence that the kobolds of Eberron can be as sophisticated as any human; in the Cross kobolds, you have evidence that they can be just as savage. or face the derision of a supposedly Neutral/Good community Hmm. Are we talking about Stormreach? Because I certainly wouldn't call it a neutral good community. I'd say neutral at best, leaning towards evil. I can't find my copy of the final book, but an NG alignment certainly wasn't in my original work. Take a look at the leaders of the powerful houses - Lyrandar, Kundarak, Deneith. Compare the number of criminal gangs to the those who truly seek justice (as opposed to serving a nationalist cause or vendetta). Even among the five possible backgrounds for the four Coin Lords, you're offered a choice of three evils and two neutrals - not a good among them. Personally, if the situation DOES create a moral quandary, I'm all for it - Eberron's all about that, and I'd say that it should further emphasize how different Stormreach is than the cities of Khorvaire. I certainly would expect a IMMENSE outcry if the mayor of Sharn suddenly put a bounty on goblin skins. But Stormreach isn't Sharn. It's not under the Code of Galifar. It's on the edge of the world, and it's darker than PCs may be used to. And hey, if you're looking for a moral quandary, you hardly need to go to the kobolds. Use Dannel's Wrath, or for that matter the Fleas. The ir'Clarns have elven blood? Does Elizabeth Taylor have elven blood? Rusila is human. My original phrasing was that she had "large violet eyes that seem almost half-elven". The editor decided to change this to "large violet eyes, which suggest elf or half-elf blood." This certainly wasn't my intention; all I was saying was that her eyes were violet, a color more typically found among elves - but hey, there are humans with violet eyes too. So I don't think of the ir'Clarns as elves or Khoravar - but hey, nothing wrong with going that way if you want. Uskal d'Orien has no dragonmark. Shouldn't he be Uskal Orien? Nope. You're thinking of a suggestion I made long ago on the boards. But the final word is simply that the "d" indicates a blood connection - so if you marry in, no d for you. p. 69, there's a mention of Kurn near the end of the Tharask section that seems like it should be Durgran. Yup. That one was my fault. Krakens and Aboleth are often mentioned in the same breath re: the rajah's equivalents in the depths. I thought (and maybe I'm misremembering) that aboleths were more akin to Xoriat than Khyber... I wouldn't put them on par with the RAJAHS, but I would compare aboleths to the Lords of Dust. This is based on the Eberron Expanded article on Lords of Madness (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a), which establishes them as spawn of Khyber as opposed to creations of the Daelkyr. ... And Krakens were more about their own plots and plans than Khyber's plots and plans. Personally, I don't think "Khyber" HAS plots and plans as such. The Lords of Dust serve their individual overlords, not Khyber itself. The Cults of the Dragon Below follow dozens of different and contradictory paths. Looking to Zlortharkis, it's said that dragons and krakens may have fought in the Age of Demons - but that was long ago, and I don't think the intention was to link krakens to some kind of mass organization. Per Zlortharkis, the recent increase in kraken activity is LITERALLY his doing, IE he's attacking more ships - not that he's got a big mob of krakens on his side. On the other hand, the Storm Front of Lyrandar believe that their elders become krakens - and that could lead to a cabal of krakens in the depths.
davethebrave371 02-29-08, 08:50 PM	Hmm. Are we talking about Stormreach? Because I certainly wouldn't call it a neutral good community. I'd say neutral at best, leaning towards evil. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant the community the adventure takes place in, which is largely Cyran, and comes off in writing, to me at least, as primarily Good or Neutral on the Moral axis, and probably mostly Neutral and Chaotic on the Ethical axis. The important part was the moral axis, so that's all I mentioned, thus the Neutral/Good, and not Neutral Good. Subtle distinction, I realize now. Sorry. Personally, if the situation DOES create a moral quandary, I'm all for it - Eberron's all about that, and I'd say that it should further emphasize how different Stormreach is than the cities of Khorvaire. I certainly would expect a IMMENSE outcry if the mayor of Sharn suddenly put a bounty on goblin skins. But Stormreach isn't Sharn. It's not under the Code of Galifar. It's on the edge of the world, and it's darker than PCs may be used to. And hey, if you're looking for a moral quandary, you hardly need to go to the kobolds. Use Dannel's Wrath, or for that matter the Fleas. Totally agree. Does Elizabeth Taylor have elven blood? Rusila is human. My original phrasing was that she had "large violet eyes that seem almost half-elven". The editor decided to change this to "large violet eyes, which suggest elf or half-elf blood." This certainly wasn't my intention; all I was saying was that her eyes were violet, a color more typically found among elves - but hey, there are humans with violet eyes too. So I don't think of the ir'Clarns as elves or Khoravar - but hey, nothing wrong with going that way if you want. My impression was more along the lines of "way back when, ir'Clarns have an elven ancestor" vs. "way back when, one of Rusila's parents specifically had an elven ancestor" Nope. You're thinking of a suggestion I made long ago on the boards. But the final word is simply that the "d" indicates a blood connection - so if you marry in, no d for you. Ahh, I thought there might be something in the ECS or Dragonmarked I was missing, but it's probably a boards thing. It's how I do it in my game, anyway. Yup. That one was my fault. If I ever see you at a Con, instead of a signature, I'll want you to cross it out, head bowed in shame, and write the correct name. I wouldn't put them on par with the RAJAHS, but I would compare aboleths to the Lords of Dust. This is based on the Eberron Expanded article on Lords of Madness (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a), which establishes them as spawn of Khyber as opposed to creations of the Daelkyr. Ok, on that note, were there rajahs under the sea? Personally, I don't think "Khyber" HAS plots and plans as such. The Lords of Dust serve their individual overlords, not Khyber itself. Khyber was sort of a general term to encompass rajahs/aboleths with an additional "/krakens?" implied in my question. The Cults of the Dragon Below follow dozens of different and contradictory paths. Looking to Zlortharkis, it's said that dragons and krakens may have fought in the Age of Demons - but that was long ago, and I don't think the intention was to link krakens to some kind of mass organization. Per Zlortharkis, the recent increase in kraken activity is LITERALLY his doing, IE he's attacking more ships - not that he's got a big mob of krakens on his side. On the other hand, the Storm Front of Lyrandar believe that their elders become krakens - and that could lead to a cabal of krakens in the depths. Ok, that answers my question quite well.
Hellcow 02-29-08, 09:26 PM	Ok, on that note, were there rajahs under the sea? In my opinion? Absolutely. As I've said before, while they're often called "rakshasa rajahs", the only reason for theat is because they were the undisputed rulers and the rakshasa were the most numerous of the fiends which they ruled. The Overlords of the Age of Demons were primordial beings embodying a wide range of terrifying powers - and I'm certain you had at least one Lord of the Maelstrom among them. A number of dragons can breathe underwater (along with dragon turtles), and I've always imagined a range of epic undersea battles during the conflict.
davethebrave371 02-29-08, 09:42 PM	In my opinion? Absolutely. As I've said before, while they're often called "rakshasa rajahs", the only reason for theat is because they were the undisputed rulers and the rakshasa were the most numerous of the fiends which they ruled. The Overlords of the Age of Demons were primordial beings embodying a wide range of terrifying powers - and I'm certain you had at least one Lord of the Maelstrom among them. A number of dragons can breathe underwater (along with dragon turtles), and I've always imagined a range of epic undersea battles during the conflict. I've always imagined that I'd pay hundreds of dollars for a sourcebook for the Oceans of Eberron. And then I wake from my feverish dream and weep, knowing how long it'll be before it ever comes out, if ever.
Wymarc 03-04-08, 04:40 PM	So the DDO player will recognize some of the NPCs, locations, and other elements. But he will also probably say "Who are these 'Bilge Rats'? What's an 'Inspired'? What's the 'Du'rashka Tul'?" Actually, the Bilge rats are in DDO. They show up in some of the low level quests.
Hellcow 03-04-08, 04:47 PM	Actually, the Bilge rats are in DDO. They show up in some of the low level quests. Which ones? I've encountered the Quickfoot Gang all over the place, but never seen any mention of the Rats.
Wymarc 03-04-08, 05:04 PM	Which ones? I've encountered the Quickfoot Gang all over the place, but never seen any mention of the Rats. I'm sorry, just looked through some online guides and it appears you are right - it is the quickfoot gang, not the bilge rats. could have sworn it was the bilge rats - not I'm gonna have to go through my books and see where I got the bilge rats' name from. :doh:
Nived 03-05-08, 01:17 AM	They're mentioned in Secrets of Xen'drik, even get a nod on one of those spiffy graphic novel esque chapter heads.
Hellcow 03-05-08, 01:22 AM	They're mentioned in Secrets of Xen'drik, even get a nod on one of those spiffy graphic novel esque chapter heads. Absolutely. And they appear in the short story "Shadows of Stormreach". The original point was that they are something that have appeared in the pen-and-paper source material but not, to the best of my knowledge, made any appearance in the computer game.
deathbane 03-11-08, 12:32 PM	Is there any mention as to the quori invasion, and how the relationship/misunderstanding lead to a war between the two(them and giants). My short version For now I have it as the quori came asking for help, which somehow lead to the warforged being created. The giants, or at least the one(s) in power tried to get over on them, and a war broke out . I know there is a mention of a disagreement in SoX, but no detail was really put into what happened, and more was supposed to be covered in this book. This is about the last thing I have to figure out as a DM so my world's story is complete.
davethebrave371 03-11-08, 12:34 PM	Is there any mention as to the quori invasion, and how the relationship/misunderstanding lead to a war between the two(them and giants). My short version For now I have it as the quori came asking for help, which somehow lead to the warforged being created. The giants, or at least the one(s) in power tried to get over on them, and a war broke out . I know there is a mention of a disagreement in SoX, but no detail was really put into what happened, and more was supposed to be covered in this book. This is about the last thing I have to figure out as a DM so my world's story is complete. That's one of those things that you, as a DM, are supposed to figure out on your own, like the Mourning. I don't recall it saying anywhere that more on the Quori-Giant conflict was going to be covered in CoS. It's purposely left blank for DMs to fill in. Personally, I think the idea you have sounds like a good one.
deathbane 03-11-08, 03:17 PM	That's one of those things that you, as a DM, are supposed to figure out on your own, like the Mourning. I don't recall it saying anywhere that more on the Quori-Giant conflict was going to be covered in CoS. It's purposely left blank for DMs to fill in. Personally, I think the idea you have sounds like a good one. Group of Eleven and Emperor Cul'sir are something that is supposed to be touched upon in the stormreach book. I paged through the book, and I saw the Cul'sir, and that fit in with my idea of how Eldritch giants and Titans were the forebearers to other giants(guess I got lucky), but I did not see anything on the group of eleven. P.S. I had the death giants as the ones who sacrificed their souls to power the spell that got rid of the quori, and the reason the Sulat were destroyed was because they built a weapon that could release the rahjahs(spelling?). The dragons found out and told them to dismantle it and never rebuild it. They killed the messengers and sent one back to the dragons, as a way of saying "don't mess with us", so the dragons, fearing what would happen if the artifact ever got out destroyed the drow and put that ring around it(SoX) to end the threat. The drow never saw it coming.
Arcane Guyver 03-11-08, 03:35 PM	That's one of those things that you, as a DM, are supposed to figure out on your own, like the Mourning. Ooh! New 4e idea! When it comes time to publish 4e Eberron books, state clearly and obviously when a setting detail is another "DM Mystery." That way folks won't be left wondering if that corner of the setting is covered in another book, and that the author's assuming you know what that previous source says on the matter.
deathbane 03-11-08, 03:39 PM	Ooh! New 4e idea! When it comes time to publish 4e Eberron books, state clearly and obviously when a setting detail is another "DM Mystery." That way folks won't be left wondering if that corner of the setting is covered in another book, and that the author's assuming you know what that previous source says on the matter. Some things I knew were DM issues, like the Day of Mourning, but that is a good idea, for things that will/will not be covered later. They can put a star, make it a different color print, and so on. Hopefully they use your idea.
skrap-san 03-11-08, 03:42 PM	Hopefully they use your idea. So do I
davethebrave371 03-12-08, 03:35 AM	Ditto.
Nomadicc 03-12-08, 08:45 PM	I think someone mentioned earlier that DDO does not include the Red Ring... actually, it is there, "Tharashk Arena" which is a part of the House Kundarak -Vault of Night- series. On a sidebar, I think the DDO devs have done a great job of continually integrating Eberron lore into the game. Sure, there's no shifters or gnomes to play, but they stick to the source fluff pretty close. They easily could have gone off and made their own version of the world. You can tell they're fans of the setting! I've finally finished reading -City of Stormreach-, though I skimmed over the last couple sections. It is a chock full of adventure ideas... If I had the group and time, I'd love to run a city-centered campaign! Bravo to Keith, Nick and the others for a fantasic sourcebook!
Smug 03-12-08, 09:08 PM	I think someone mentioned earlier that DDO does not include the Red Ring... actually, it is there, "Tharashk Arena" which is a part of the House Kundarak -Vault of Night- series. I don't play DDO, so I don't know the answer to this - but is the arena in DDO the Red Ring, or just a "Tharashk Arena"? Because the Red Ring, IIRC, doesn't actually have anything to do with House Tharashk. I don't see it as a big deal either way. I'd be impressed if DDO got that level of detail, but it hardly makes much difference.
LunarWolfPrime 03-13-08, 03:52 PM	No! It's downright unsettling! I mean, there's bound to be a few dragons who've had the idea to fire-breathe the crap out of Stormreach, turning it into the biggest dessert fondue in history. Then there'd be debates on what tastes better, chocolate-covered gnomes or drow, and then, are they better cooked dead or alive? Darn dragons... I love that comment unfortunatly I have friends that would wonder the exact same thing; about the gnomes and the drow.