[Attn: Hellcow or Nlogue]More info on Dragons of Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

[Attn: Hellcow or Nlogue]More info on Dragons of Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Amaril
09-03-07, 02:40 PM Since Dragons of Eberron has been sent off to press (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070731a), can we get some more details on what we will be seeing in it?

So far we know that it will present dragons from all over Eberron, a section about Argonnessen, and we know that it is not a Secrets of Argonnessen.

Specifically, I'd like to know if we'll see info about the following:
The draconic pantheon and how it is viewed by the dragons
The role of the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron
Suggestions for including gem dragons in Eberron
The role, if any, of various races with the dragonblood subtype such as dragonborn, spellscales, or kobolds (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a)
Suggestions for including dragonfire adepts or various dragon or dragon-themed PrCs from Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic.
I'll probably add some more topics as I think of them.

If there are any nifty topics not listed here that will be included, I'd love to hear about them.
Nlogue
09-03-07, 03:10 PM Since Dragons of Eberron has been sent off to press (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070731a), can we get some more details on what we will be seeing in it?

So far we know that it will present dragons from all over Eberron, a section about Argonnessen, and we know that it is not a Secrets of Argonnessen.

Specifically, I'd like to know if we'll see info about the following:
The draconic pantheon and how it is viewed by the dragons
The role of the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron
Suggestions for including gem dragons in Eberron
The role, if any, of various races with the dragonblood subtype such as dragonborn, spellscales, or kobolds (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a)
Suggestions for including dragonfire adepts or various dragon or dragon-themed PrCs from Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic.
I'll probably add some more topics as I think of them.

If there are any nifty topics not listed here that will be included, I'd love to hear about them.

NEVER!!! ;)

Ha! Jk! I didn't see the final edit of this, so I'm not real sure...but here goes.

Yes on Draconic Pantheon I believe (that was Keith's purview).

Yes on Spawn of Tiamat.

I believe no on gem dragons (unless of course I'm mistaken).

Dunno on the last two!

Sorry, that's probably not super helpful my man. Maybe Keith can do better!
Amaril
09-03-07, 03:40 PM I appreciate your time nonetheless. Thanks. :)

I think in a previous conversation, by either PM or a thread, Keith mentioned that Races of the Dragon didn't surface in his material, but there's always the possibility that someone else dropped them in as a reference before the final draft was sent to the printer. I'm crossing my fingers.

I'm really surprised by the apparent exclusion of gem dragons in Eberrron. I know that's not to say they don't exist, but when I see their inclusion in other setting products such as Council of Wyrms or Dragons of Faerun, I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't factor so prominently in a setting in which psionics plays a significant role.

I personally plan to include gem dragons and Sardior in my own version of Eberron.
Rechan
09-03-07, 04:24 PM It's been suggested in the Kobolds dragonshard that the Chamber sometimes employs Kobolds as its agents.

What I'm curious about is if there's anything in the book about The Draconic Prophecy.
davethebrave371
09-03-07, 07:14 PM I'm really surprised by the apparent exclusion of gem dragons in Eberrron. I know that's not to say they don't exist, but when I see their inclusion in other setting products such as Council of Wyrms or Dragons of Faerun, I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't factor so prominently in a setting in which psionics plays a significant role.

I personally plan to include gem dragons and Sardior in my own version of Eberron.

If it was you on the other thread who suggested a Siberys shard castle in the sky for Sardior, I'm doing the same thing you are. I love gem dragons, and they've been a part of the game since the beginning of my (almost two year long in a few weeks) Eberron campaign. My players don't know it, but (spoiler'd since a few of my players read the boards) one of the NPCs they've known since fairly early on is actually a sapphire dragon.
Amaril
09-03-07, 10:20 PM If it was you on the other thread who suggested a Siberys shard castle in the sky for Sardior, I'm doing the same thing you are.

Yep, that was me.

The frustrating thing is that I have been waiting for such a long time for this type of book as I have tons of ideas I want to implement in Eberron, and I'm extremely curious to see how dragons will be treated canonically in Eberron. We know so little about dragons of Eberron and even less about Dragons of Eberron. ;)
Hellcow
09-03-07, 11:55 PM The draconic pantheon and how it is viewed by the dragons.
Yes.

The role of the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron
Yes.

Suggestions for including gem dragons in Eberron.
There is a sidebar on the topic, though I suspect you will want to take a different approach.

The role, if any, of various races with the dragonblood subtype such as dragonborn, spellscales, or kobolds (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a)
No.

Suggestions for including dragonfire adepts or various dragon or dragon-themed PrCs from Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic.
Aspects of some of these books are references, especially Draconomicon. Others are not. Not any mention of the dragonfire adept as far as I can find. It is primarily a book about the dragons themselves - their cultures, beliefs, and activities - than about humans associated with dragons. So you'll see more about the Ascendant Dragon PrC than any dragon-themed PrC aimed at humanoids.

If there are any nifty topics not listed here that will be included, I'd love to hear about them.
Many. My favorite is the explanation of Vvaraak - which is to say, how is it that you have a dragon who's also apparently a really bad-ass druid? But it's not something I really have the time to delve into now. Still, I'm very happy with how the book turned out.

I'm really surprised by the apparent exclusion of gem dragons in Eberrron. I know that's not to say they don't exist, but when I see their inclusion in other setting products such as Council of Wyrms or Dragons of Faerun, I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't factor so prominently in a setting in which psionics plays a significant role.
From a cosmology standpoint, it's because psionics are primarily associated with the planes (largely Dal Quor and Xoriat), and arcane/divine energy with Siberys/Khyber, natural energy with Eberron. Dragons are the primal children of Eberron and Siberys. They don't just have magical powers, they ARE magical power. I don't mind having dragons of Eberron who develop psionic abilities by taking levels in a psionic class; they are connected to the planes like any other creature. But when you remove the innate magical powers of a dragon and replace them with psionic abilities, you've created something that occupies a very different place in the cosmology of the world, and it's just not what we wanted to deal with here.

Gem dragons are innately planar travelers, so it's simple enough to make them natives of Dal Quor, Xoriat, or other appropriate planes; just because the quori are unpleasant doesn't prevent there from people a crystal realm of gem dragons in a corner of Dal Quor. But again, that's not what we wanted to focus on here. Here we wanted to deal with the core dragons and their bond to the world.

I think the ideas you've suggested are great, and I think they'll suit your campaign better than the Gem Dragon sidebar in DoE; the beauty of Eberron is that there is a place for things. ;)

And yes, I know, couatls do have psionic power, which suggests that there is some touch of psionics to the spirits of the progenitors. But the dragons and couatls do have different origins (dealt with in DoE), and again, I don't have problem with a dragon developing psionic abilities; I have an issue with them developing psionic abilities at the expense of their nature arcane/divine abilities. And even the full-fledged psionic couatl still has the ability to cast arcane/divine spells - covers all the realms.

I have no violent opposition to the existence of gem dragons; again, there's a sidebar on them in the book. But that's why they aren't given equal weight with the chromatics and metallics; they have a different role in cosmology.
davethebrave371
09-08-07, 05:51 PM In the same vein as the gem dragon question, epic dragons from the ELH?
Hellcow
09-08-07, 06:17 PM In the same vein as the gem dragon question, epic dragons from the ELH?
Not mentioned. We chose to focus on the core MM dragons. However, given that we include things like the PrCs from Draconomicon, there are certainly epic-level dragons.
Revvecor
09-08-07, 06:23 PM Did you guys use the "planer dragons" from the Draconomicon? They could be interesting inhabitants of the planes.
davethebrave371
09-08-07, 06:33 PM Not mentioned. We chose to focus on the core MM dragons. However, given that we include things like the PrCs from Draconomicon, there are certainly epic-level dragons.

I'm not sure how familiar you or the esteemed Mr. Logue are with the epic dragons, or if either of you have read the final issue of Dragon with the new Time Dragon, but I was wondering where you'd place Prismatic, Force and particularily the new Time dragons in the history/contemporary world of Eberron. Since it won't be in the book, a little commentary perhaps? If you haven't read the final Dragon, suffice to say, the great wyrm is CR 90 and has an ability that lets it time travel "unhindered" back and forth through time, any distance.

The sidebar explains the cost to the dragon is basically up to the DM as regards how far forward and back, and that the ritual or what have you to do so takes a long time (longer the futher back or forward you want to go). I could see Time Dragons born during the Age of Demons still working on a ritual to send them back to try and save Siberys, for instance. It's a very nifty DM tool, not only for epic games, but also for regular games, and I saw a draconic prophecy use almost right away. One more factor for dragons knowing so much more about the prophecy? A time dragon sending a party of adventurers back in time to observe a dragonmark in a remote, out of the way place that occured but was never observed by dragons. When he comes back to retrieve them, they tell him what the mark was, show him a sketch of it, etc. and they're brought back to modern day. That was the first thing I thought when I read the great wyrm ability.

Anyway, enough of my thoughts. Any thoughts of your own? Ketih or Nic, I respect both of your creativity in interpreting Eberron flavour and how to mold things to that, and you both wrote on dragons in the setting. So don't be shy Nic, you've got just as much authority to me as KB on this topic!
Hellcow
09-09-07, 12:07 AM Did you guys use the "planer dragons" from the Draconomicon? They could be interesting inhabitants of the planes.
I don't believe so. If one goes to all the optional books and MMs, there's a lot of dragons out there, and we really wanted to focus on the core group, as they're the ones that have had the most significant impact on Eberron itself. However, I think you could easily find a good place for planar dragons on the planes, just as I've been suggesting an extraplanar origin for gem dragons on the other thread.
Nlogue
09-09-07, 05:49 AM I could see Time Dragons born during the Age of Demons still working on a ritual to send them back to try and save Siberys, for instance. It's a very nifty DM tool, not only for epic games, but also for regular games, and I saw a draconic prophecy use almost right away. One more factor for dragons knowing so much more about the prophecy? A time dragon sending a party of adventurers back in time to observe a dragonmark in a remote, out of the way place that occured but was never observed by dragons. When he comes back to retrieve them, they tell him what the mark was, show him a sketch of it, etc. and they're brought back to modern day. That was the first thing I thought when I read the great wyrm ability.

I think the above is awesome campaign building material Dave. Neat ideas and a great use of the Time Dragon in a way that doesn't necessarily destablize the setting, but instead gives the PCs to be a bigger part of it. Cool stuff. We don't have much on Epic Dragons in Dragons of Eberron though.

To be honest, my thoughts on the book is that we wracked out a ton of awesome stuff and could of kept going and going and exploring tons of other options too. I wish we could have written three times as much as we did, that book had a great creative team and it was the most fun I've had on a project to date. My first chance to work under Keith's masterful guidance too. Wish we could have kept going and going with it. Though, I did get to do a wee bit o' supplemental material for it (available as part of the free DI preview) that was loads of fun too, but yeah, would have been great to have another 400 pages to play with, eh Keith?

Great stuff though Dave, strong incorporation of the Time Dragon, and I think, more than a lot of settings, Eberron is a GREAT place for a time traveling campaign.
Hellcow
09-09-07, 03:57 PM would have been great to have another 400 pages to play with, eh Keith?
Absolutely.

I haven't had a chance to think about the time dragon, but you've certainly got good ideas, Dave. I think there's a lot of interesting possibilities.
davethebrave371
09-09-07, 05:41 PM Awww, shucks! I'm blushin' over here.

But seriously, I think the role of epic dragons in Eberron, particular what role they play in draconic society (or outside of draconic society as the case may be) would make for a neat D&DI article for either or both of you to tackle. Sort of a "Hey, look at this!" for all the people who say Eberron can't do epic level play, as well as ways to incorporate a reverse of the Eberron philosophy with NPCs regarding "power": that being that a low-level NPC might have oodles of power within his organization or nation, moreso than some of the mid to high level NPCs serving under him. Epic dragon material could deal not only with, "Here's something neat for an epic Eberron game." but also, "Here's how to involve them as a patron or villain without being game-breaking."
Hellcow
09-09-07, 06:04 PM [Edit] Changed my mind - I don't want to derail the thread. I'll add some ideas when I've had time to think about it further... right now novels call.
bhasu
09-09-07, 06:39 PM I will have to get this book.

So far in my campains, we have yet to run into a dragon, save a white rampaging in Karrnath.

I like that in Eberron they seem to be few and far between.

I can't wait to lay eyes on it.
Amaril
09-09-07, 06:45 PM [Edit] Changed my mind - I don't want to derail the thread. I'll add some ideas when I've had time to think about it further... right now novels call.
Feel free to start a new thread when you need a break from the novel.
Amaril
09-09-07, 06:46 PM Two more questions:

What references to Eyes of the Lich Queen can we look forward to in Dragons of Eberron?
Do we get to see a map of Argonnessen?
Hellcow
09-09-07, 09:32 PM What references to Eyes of the Lich Queen can we look forward to in Dragons of Eberron?
I'll leave that to Nic, since he's the EotLQ author of the two of us.

Do we get to see a map of Argonnessen?
Yes, but on par with the existing maps of Xen'drik - a high-level map of the continent as a whole, with lots of room for you to add the specific things you want in your campaign.
Yakman
09-10-07, 02:56 PM couldn't ask for anything else.
Amaril
09-10-07, 03:41 PM I'll leave that to Nic, since he's the EotLQ author of the two of us.

I was hoping Nic would answer. I thought he mentioned once before that he drew from EotLQ for Dragons of Eberron, and I was curious about those references and connections.

Yes, but on par with the existing maps of Xen'drik - a high-level map of the continent as a whole, with lots of room for you to add the specific things you want in your campaign.

Perfect. I just need something that conveys environments, terrain and/or climate across the continent.
The Wilgar
09-10-07, 05:09 PM Many. My favorite is the explanation of Vvaraak - which is to say, how is it that you have a dragon who's also apparently a really bad-ass druid?

Finally! I'd been wondering about that. Is there going to be some kind of Draconomicon-esq prestige class, along the lines of the Sacred Warder of Bahamut, for dragons who want to follow his (her?) footsteps? Like a Scion of Vvaraak class or something?
Nlogue
09-11-07, 01:23 AM I was hoping Nic would answer. I thought he mentioned once before that he drew from EotLQ for Dragons of Eberron, and I was curious about those references and connections.

I did not work on the Argonessen section much, so there are no real references to EotLQ in Dragons of Eberron, though Fang Crater may get some ink in DoE perhaps (memory fadinggggg...) and certainly the entire section on Argonessen will prove invaluable to a DM running EofLQ...especially the suggested encounters and what not.

Perfect. I just need something that conveys environments, terrain and/or climate across the continent.

You will be very happy with Keith's awesome stuff on Argonessen then I believe. It was not only comprehensive, but also very very sexy-cool in my opinion.
Amaril
09-21-07, 11:40 AM Nic, that sounds excellent. I'm really looking forward to this book. Conveniently the summer presented a lot of delays for finishing off Grasp of the Emerald Claw and starting Eyes of the Lich Queen. My next game session should see the climax of GotEC, and I hope to have a session or two of character development and or kicking of EotLQ. That should be enough time for me to get my hands of Dragons of Eberron and consume its content before getting close to Argonnessen. Also, I can't wait to see what's in store for the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron.
davethebrave371
09-21-07, 02:01 PM Similar situation here. I have my own story arc which I pepper with the published stuff. We started off with Forgotten Forge, and segued right into SotLW, but it took us FOREVER to get to WotVB and we've only JUST started GotEC, WAY after WotVB. We're coming up on our two-year anniversary session next session.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amaril 09-03-07, 02:40 PM	Since Dragons of Eberron has been sent off to press (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070731a), can we get some more details on what we will be seeing in it? So far we know that it will present dragons from all over Eberron, a section about Argonnessen, and we know that it is not a Secrets of Argonnessen. Specifically, I'd like to know if we'll see info about the following: The draconic pantheon and how it is viewed by the dragons The role of the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron Suggestions for including gem dragons in Eberron The role, if any, of various races with the dragonblood subtype such as dragonborn, spellscales, or kobolds (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a) Suggestions for including dragonfire adepts or various dragon or dragon-themed PrCs from Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic. I'll probably add some more topics as I think of them. If there are any nifty topics not listed here that will be included, I'd love to hear about them.
Nlogue 09-03-07, 03:10 PM	Since Dragons of Eberron has been sent off to press (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070731a), can we get some more details on what we will be seeing in it? So far we know that it will present dragons from all over Eberron, a section about Argonnessen, and we know that it is not a Secrets of Argonnessen. Specifically, I'd like to know if we'll see info about the following: The draconic pantheon and how it is viewed by the dragons The role of the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron Suggestions for including gem dragons in Eberron The role, if any, of various races with the dragonblood subtype such as dragonborn, spellscales, or kobolds (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a) Suggestions for including dragonfire adepts or various dragon or dragon-themed PrCs from Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic. I'll probably add some more topics as I think of them. If there are any nifty topics not listed here that will be included, I'd love to hear about them. NEVER!!! ;) Ha! Jk! I didn't see the final edit of this, so I'm not real sure...but here goes. Yes on Draconic Pantheon I believe (that was Keith's purview). Yes on Spawn of Tiamat. I believe no on gem dragons (unless of course I'm mistaken). Dunno on the last two! Sorry, that's probably not super helpful my man. Maybe Keith can do better!
Amaril 09-03-07, 03:40 PM	I appreciate your time nonetheless. Thanks. :) I think in a previous conversation, by either PM or a thread, Keith mentioned that Races of the Dragon didn't surface in his material, but there's always the possibility that someone else dropped them in as a reference before the final draft was sent to the printer. I'm crossing my fingers. I'm really surprised by the apparent exclusion of gem dragons in Eberrron. I know that's not to say they don't exist, but when I see their inclusion in other setting products such as Council of Wyrms or Dragons of Faerun, I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't factor so prominently in a setting in which psionics plays a significant role. I personally plan to include gem dragons and Sardior in my own version of Eberron.
Rechan 09-03-07, 04:24 PM	It's been suggested in the Kobolds dragonshard that the Chamber sometimes employs Kobolds as its agents. What I'm curious about is if there's anything in the book about The Draconic Prophecy.
davethebrave371 09-03-07, 07:14 PM	I'm really surprised by the apparent exclusion of gem dragons in Eberrron. I know that's not to say they don't exist, but when I see their inclusion in other setting products such as Council of Wyrms or Dragons of Faerun, I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't factor so prominently in a setting in which psionics plays a significant role. I personally plan to include gem dragons and Sardior in my own version of Eberron. If it was you on the other thread who suggested a Siberys shard castle in the sky for Sardior, I'm doing the same thing you are. I love gem dragons, and they've been a part of the game since the beginning of my (almost two year long in a few weeks) Eberron campaign. My players don't know it, but (spoiler'd since a few of my players read the boards) one of the NPCs they've known since fairly early on is actually a sapphire dragon.
Amaril 09-03-07, 10:20 PM	If it was you on the other thread who suggested a Siberys shard castle in the sky for Sardior, I'm doing the same thing you are. Yep, that was me. The frustrating thing is that I have been waiting for such a long time for this type of book as I have tons of ideas I want to implement in Eberron, and I'm extremely curious to see how dragons will be treated canonically in Eberron. We know so little about dragons of Eberron and even less about Dragons of Eberron. ;)
Hellcow 09-03-07, 11:55 PM	The draconic pantheon and how it is viewed by the dragons. Yes. The role of the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron Yes. Suggestions for including gem dragons in Eberron. There is a sidebar on the topic, though I suspect you will want to take a different approach. The role, if any, of various races with the dragonblood subtype such as dragonborn, spellscales, or kobolds (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a) No. Suggestions for including dragonfire adepts or various dragon or dragon-themed PrCs from Draconomicon, Races of the Dragon, and Dragon Magic. Aspects of some of these books are references, especially Draconomicon. Others are not. Not any mention of the dragonfire adept as far as I can find. It is primarily a book about the dragons themselves - their cultures, beliefs, and activities - than about humans associated with dragons. So you'll see more about the Ascendant Dragon PrC than any dragon-themed PrC aimed at humanoids. If there are any nifty topics not listed here that will be included, I'd love to hear about them. Many. My favorite is the explanation of Vvaraak - which is to say, how is it that you have a dragon who's also apparently a really bad-ass druid? But it's not something I really have the time to delve into now. Still, I'm very happy with how the book turned out. I'm really surprised by the apparent exclusion of gem dragons in Eberrron. I know that's not to say they don't exist, but when I see their inclusion in other setting products such as Council of Wyrms or Dragons of Faerun, I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't factor so prominently in a setting in which psionics plays a significant role. From a cosmology standpoint, it's because psionics are primarily associated with the planes (largely Dal Quor and Xoriat), and arcane/divine energy with Siberys/Khyber, natural energy with Eberron. Dragons are the primal children of Eberron and Siberys. They don't just have magical powers, they ARE magical power. I don't mind having dragons of Eberron who develop psionic abilities by taking levels in a psionic class; they are connected to the planes like any other creature. But when you remove the innate magical powers of a dragon and replace them with psionic abilities, you've created something that occupies a very different place in the cosmology of the world, and it's just not what we wanted to deal with here. Gem dragons are innately planar travelers, so it's simple enough to make them natives of Dal Quor, Xoriat, or other appropriate planes; just because the quori are unpleasant doesn't prevent there from people a crystal realm of gem dragons in a corner of Dal Quor. But again, that's not what we wanted to focus on here. Here we wanted to deal with the core dragons and their bond to the world. I think the ideas you've suggested are great, and I think they'll suit your campaign better than the Gem Dragon sidebar in DoE; the beauty of Eberron is that there is a place for things. ;) And yes, I know, couatls do have psionic power, which suggests that there is some touch of psionics to the spirits of the progenitors. But the dragons and couatls do have different origins (dealt with in DoE), and again, I don't have problem with a dragon developing psionic abilities; I have an issue with them developing psionic abilities at the expense of their nature arcane/divine abilities. And even the full-fledged psionic couatl still has the ability to cast arcane/divine spells - covers all the realms. I have no violent opposition to the existence of gem dragons; again, there's a sidebar on them in the book. But that's why they aren't given equal weight with the chromatics and metallics; they have a different role in cosmology.
davethebrave371 09-08-07, 05:51 PM	In the same vein as the gem dragon question, epic dragons from the ELH?
Hellcow 09-08-07, 06:17 PM	In the same vein as the gem dragon question, epic dragons from the ELH? Not mentioned. We chose to focus on the core MM dragons. However, given that we include things like the PrCs from Draconomicon, there are certainly epic-level dragons.
Revvecor 09-08-07, 06:23 PM	Did you guys use the "planer dragons" from the Draconomicon? They could be interesting inhabitants of the planes.
davethebrave371 09-08-07, 06:33 PM	Not mentioned. We chose to focus on the core MM dragons. However, given that we include things like the PrCs from Draconomicon, there are certainly epic-level dragons. I'm not sure how familiar you or the esteemed Mr. Logue are with the epic dragons, or if either of you have read the final issue of Dragon with the new Time Dragon, but I was wondering where you'd place Prismatic, Force and particularily the new Time dragons in the history/contemporary world of Eberron. Since it won't be in the book, a little commentary perhaps? If you haven't read the final Dragon, suffice to say, the great wyrm is CR 90 and has an ability that lets it time travel "unhindered" back and forth through time, any distance. The sidebar explains the cost to the dragon is basically up to the DM as regards how far forward and back, and that the ritual or what have you to do so takes a long time (longer the futher back or forward you want to go). I could see Time Dragons born during the Age of Demons still working on a ritual to send them back to try and save Siberys, for instance. It's a very nifty DM tool, not only for epic games, but also for regular games, and I saw a draconic prophecy use almost right away. One more factor for dragons knowing so much more about the prophecy? A time dragon sending a party of adventurers back in time to observe a dragonmark in a remote, out of the way place that occured but was never observed by dragons. When he comes back to retrieve them, they tell him what the mark was, show him a sketch of it, etc. and they're brought back to modern day. That was the first thing I thought when I read the great wyrm ability. Anyway, enough of my thoughts. Any thoughts of your own? Ketih or Nic, I respect both of your creativity in interpreting Eberron flavour and how to mold things to that, and you both wrote on dragons in the setting. So don't be shy Nic, you've got just as much authority to me as KB on this topic!
Hellcow 09-09-07, 12:07 AM	Did you guys use the "planer dragons" from the Draconomicon? They could be interesting inhabitants of the planes. I don't believe so. If one goes to all the optional books and MMs, there's a lot of dragons out there, and we really wanted to focus on the core group, as they're the ones that have had the most significant impact on Eberron itself. However, I think you could easily find a good place for planar dragons on the planes, just as I've been suggesting an extraplanar origin for gem dragons on the other thread.
Nlogue 09-09-07, 05:49 AM	I could see Time Dragons born during the Age of Demons still working on a ritual to send them back to try and save Siberys, for instance. It's a very nifty DM tool, not only for epic games, but also for regular games, and I saw a draconic prophecy use almost right away. One more factor for dragons knowing so much more about the prophecy? A time dragon sending a party of adventurers back in time to observe a dragonmark in a remote, out of the way place that occured but was never observed by dragons. When he comes back to retrieve them, they tell him what the mark was, show him a sketch of it, etc. and they're brought back to modern day. That was the first thing I thought when I read the great wyrm ability. I think the above is awesome campaign building material Dave. Neat ideas and a great use of the Time Dragon in a way that doesn't necessarily destablize the setting, but instead gives the PCs to be a bigger part of it. Cool stuff. We don't have much on Epic Dragons in Dragons of Eberron though. To be honest, my thoughts on the book is that we wracked out a ton of awesome stuff and could of kept going and going and exploring tons of other options too. I wish we could have written three times as much as we did, that book had a great creative team and it was the most fun I've had on a project to date. My first chance to work under Keith's masterful guidance too. Wish we could have kept going and going with it. Though, I did get to do a wee bit o' supplemental material for it (available as part of the free DI preview) that was loads of fun too, but yeah, would have been great to have another 400 pages to play with, eh Keith? Great stuff though Dave, strong incorporation of the Time Dragon, and I think, more than a lot of settings, Eberron is a GREAT place for a time traveling campaign.
Hellcow 09-09-07, 03:57 PM	would have been great to have another 400 pages to play with, eh Keith? Absolutely. I haven't had a chance to think about the time dragon, but you've certainly got good ideas, Dave. I think there's a lot of interesting possibilities.
davethebrave371 09-09-07, 05:41 PM	Awww, shucks! I'm blushin' over here. But seriously, I think the role of epic dragons in Eberron, particular what role they play in draconic society (or outside of draconic society as the case may be) would make for a neat D&DI article for either or both of you to tackle. Sort of a "Hey, look at this!" for all the people who say Eberron can't do epic level play, as well as ways to incorporate a reverse of the Eberron philosophy with NPCs regarding "power": that being that a low-level NPC might have oodles of power within his organization or nation, moreso than some of the mid to high level NPCs serving under him. Epic dragon material could deal not only with, "Here's something neat for an epic Eberron game." but also, "Here's how to involve them as a patron or villain without being game-breaking."
Hellcow 09-09-07, 06:04 PM	[Edit] Changed my mind - I don't want to derail the thread. I'll add some ideas when I've had time to think about it further... right now novels call.
bhasu 09-09-07, 06:39 PM	I will have to get this book. So far in my campains, we have yet to run into a dragon, save a white rampaging in Karrnath. I like that in Eberron they seem to be few and far between. I can't wait to lay eyes on it.
Amaril 09-09-07, 06:45 PM	[Edit] Changed my mind - I don't want to derail the thread. I'll add some ideas when I've had time to think about it further... right now novels call. Feel free to start a new thread when you need a break from the novel.
Amaril 09-09-07, 06:46 PM	Two more questions: What references to Eyes of the Lich Queen can we look forward to in Dragons of Eberron? Do we get to see a map of Argonnessen?
Hellcow 09-09-07, 09:32 PM	What references to Eyes of the Lich Queen can we look forward to in Dragons of Eberron? I'll leave that to Nic, since he's the EotLQ author of the two of us. Do we get to see a map of Argonnessen? Yes, but on par with the existing maps of Xen'drik - a high-level map of the continent as a whole, with lots of room for you to add the specific things you want in your campaign.
Yakman 09-10-07, 02:56 PM	couldn't ask for anything else.
Amaril 09-10-07, 03:41 PM	I'll leave that to Nic, since he's the EotLQ author of the two of us. I was hoping Nic would answer. I thought he mentioned once before that he drew from EotLQ for Dragons of Eberron, and I was curious about those references and connections. Yes, but on par with the existing maps of Xen'drik - a high-level map of the continent as a whole, with lots of room for you to add the specific things you want in your campaign. Perfect. I just need something that conveys environments, terrain and/or climate across the continent.
The Wilgar 09-10-07, 05:09 PM	Many. My favorite is the explanation of Vvaraak - which is to say, how is it that you have a dragon who's also apparently a really bad-ass druid? Finally! I'd been wondering about that. Is there going to be some kind of Draconomicon-esq prestige class, along the lines of the Sacred Warder of Bahamut, for dragons who want to follow his (her?) footsteps? Like a Scion of Vvaraak class or something?
Nlogue 09-11-07, 01:23 AM	I was hoping Nic would answer. I thought he mentioned once before that he drew from EotLQ for Dragons of Eberron, and I was curious about those references and connections. I did not work on the Argonessen section much, so there are no real references to EotLQ in Dragons of Eberron, though Fang Crater may get some ink in DoE perhaps (memory fadinggggg...) and certainly the entire section on Argonessen will prove invaluable to a DM running EofLQ...especially the suggested encounters and what not. Perfect. I just need something that conveys environments, terrain and/or climate across the continent. You will be very happy with Keith's awesome stuff on Argonessen then I believe. It was not only comprehensive, but also very very sexy-cool in my opinion.
Amaril 09-21-07, 11:40 AM	Nic, that sounds excellent. I'm really looking forward to this book. Conveniently the summer presented a lot of delays for finishing off Grasp of the Emerald Claw and starting Eyes of the Lich Queen. My next game session should see the climax of GotEC, and I hope to have a session or two of character development and or kicking of EotLQ. That should be enough time for me to get my hands of Dragons of Eberron and consume its content before getting close to Argonnessen. Also, I can't wait to see what's in store for the spawn of Tiamat in Eberron.
davethebrave371 09-21-07, 02:01 PM	Similar situation here. I have my own story arc which I pepper with the published stuff. We started off with Forgotten Forge, and segued right into SotLW, but it took us FOREVER to get to WotVB and we've only JUST started GotEC, WAY after WotVB. We're coming up on our two-year anniversary session next session.