Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Latif Khan 08-15-04, 09:37 AM	Any Ideas, for making a barbrawl rememorable ? Two aspects to consider: 1. Rules speciffic stuff 2. Flavor The hard part are the rules, implementing as many as possible of the 1001 swashbuckling moves. So far my cast of characters: -Ergen "the giant": one of those really big guys, just waitin to crack a chair over your head. -2 goblin brothers, still unnamed -a bard, playing the flute ( he will try to recruit the Pcs after the brawl for an adventure, having seen their battle prowess) -Gernod, somehow a representative of the silver flame, weither paladin, or inquisitor im not shure yet. Hes just taking a meal. -Miss Tervina and her Protector, out for an experience among the common folk - a thief -the bartender -an old-guy-in-the-corner What i need most is rules, for making it fastpaced. of course additional "iconic" barpeople are appreciated, or ideas for the tavern interior.
Flamy 08-15-04, 06:37 PM	Well, for a bar brawl I would suggets you just describe all of combat and throw rounds aside for a moment. I did this once, once, and it worked well. It let's PCs pull things off they would not normally do in Normal combat like: PC1 I take the chair and slam it on that Half-Orc! *Rolls and blah blah* You:A goblin charges at you. PC2: I kick it before it hits him. *Rolls...* You: It doges your kick and bites your leg! PC2: I shake it off! PC1: And I hit it with the leg chair! Sure, it's simple, but a heck of a lot of fun. Trust me, let the PCs go wild on this. You could even put soem music on. Hard Rock or Metal if you want hardcore fighting. Some of that "hillbilly" music that appears in comedy movies if you want hilarity, ect. That's about all I can provide. There's only one hard rule for this, you are the limit. When I did this, I allowed a player to throw his longsword at a Hobgoblin just because I thought it was cool, albeit irrealistic. You know what you'll allow and how far you'll let the players go.
Red_Decker 08-15-04, 06:52 PM	Don't forget damage rules for mugs, tankards, chairs, tables, and other fun things. Also this is Eberron, put in a Warforged, or a group of orcs or A shifter that goes nuts. Have a dual level Tavern where if one of the PCs wanted to they could make a jump check to get up there. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Medesha 08-15-04, 07:41 PM	Well, I had a bar brawl go exceptionally well a little while ago. It was kind of improvised, but perhaps you can learn something from my experience. Basically we've got four characters. Drusai the LG ascetic monk, Maya the lovely human rogue, Hap Kismet the happy-go-lucky shifter cleric, and the Chain, the mysterious vigilante of Sharn. They were headed for a bar to interrogate a certain person. They decided they didn't want to seem to be together, so they entered the bar separately. The Chain was voted to be the one to interrogate Lanny, the guy they were looking for. I didn't want the other PCs to be bored, so I started doing "side interactions" with each of them. Maybe try doing that - split the PCs up with something to interest each of them. Hap Kismet saw a card game going on in the corner, so he went and joined the game. Maya sat nearby, watching. Drusai covered the door and the Chain went to do the talking. I had Hap make a few checks to see how his card game was going. He rolled a natural 20, so I told him he got a royal flush. He bluffed and took the other poker players for all they were worth. Maya kept getting hit on by a repulsive old guy who kept asking her things like, "What's a pretty girl like you doing in a place like this?" She made an Intimidate check to try and drive him off, but rolled crap. A few drunks at the table mistook Drusai's simple clothing for that of a beggar and started calling him over, saying they'd buy him a drink. He politely tried to explain he abstained from alcohol. He rolled a Diplomacy check and rolled crap. Meanwhile, the Chain interviewed Lanny. The group was looking for a criminal who was currently blackmailing Lanny, and the Chain wanted to know what this criminal looked like. Lanny said, "Well, he's..." then pointed at the door and said with sudden loudness, "That's him! That's him right there!" Of course, there was a lull in the bar's conversation at that very moment, and the words rang out loudly. The criminal coming through the door blinked and went for his sword. All the PCs got ready for a fight. But just then... A group of poker players stood up and drew daggers, pointing angrily at a shifty shifter cleric and shouting, "Cheater! You cheated!" A somewhat grimy, gold-toothed old man grabbed a young girl around the waist and snarled, "Now don't be like that, dearie. You give a kiss to me and my friends and mebbe we'll let you walk out of here." A drunk grabbed a mug of ale off the table and brandished it at a quiet, simply-dressed man and sneered, "Too good to drink with us, eh? We don't like your fancy type here!" And before the PCs could launch themselves at the bad guys, they found they had a group of drunken, angry, hostile commoners to deal with. (And since they're all good-aligned but the Chain, they didn't feel comfortable using lethal force. :D ) It worked like a dream. Hope you find it inspirational! (Incidentally, Drusai disarmed the drunk and caught the mug of ale without spilling a drop, then knocked the drunk out with a punch of his free hand. Maya kneed her lecherous groper in a delicate area (and critted and did Sneak Attack damage, I might add), and Hap managed to scoop his winnings off the table before driving the card sharks off with his bare hands, and the Chain hustled Lanny safely away and then took on the BBEG. Good times.)
The Steve 08-16-04, 09:21 AM	Bar brawls are ideal for using rules like tumble, jump and balance (for jumping onto, across, over and under bars and tables) Also bull rush (charge someone over a bar or into a wall) and improvised weapons are cool too. Sunder (on tables/chairs) is also usable. Iconic characters might also nclude a bouncer (big and tough) who stands outside the door studiously ignoring the brawl until it's nearly over, when he walks in and mops up any close to unconscious characters.
The_Fan 08-16-04, 12:12 PM	Well, I've been studying the rules thoroughly lately (in anticipation of joining the RPGA as a DM), and some of it could be easily applied to a bar brawl. For instance, an unarmed character without Improved Unarmed Strike cannot make attacks of opportunity. Assuming no one is armed, that opens up a whole slew of options: tripping, grappling, bull rushing, etc. From there you just have to be creative, such as bull rushing people into wine racks. Of course this all changes as soon as someone grabs a bottle and breaks it, because now they're armed. Don't forget that tables can be used in a variety of ways. A big guy can pick one up and use it to get a +2 bonus to bull rushing. A bigger guy could throw it. Anyone else could stand on top of it and get a +1 bonus to attacks for higher ground. And if a trigger-happy guy draws a hand crossbow, use a move action to kick that table over and a free action to drop to your knees to get cover. Chairs too can be useful, particularly if someone breaks a bottle or something. The legs give a chair a +2 bonus to disarms, so if you catch your opponent's arm within the chair and twist, that bottle will pop right out of his hand. Read up on hardness too. Nothing takes the wind out of a guy's sails faster than breaking the leg of the table he's using for higher ground (forcing a DC 15 balance check or fall prone) Prone is definately not a good thing in any fight, doubly so in a bar fight, since the +4 bonus for attacking a prone enemy negates the -4 penalty for improvised weapons. You can also still use feats like combat expertise, two weapon fighting, power attack, etc. in a bar fight, you just gotta get creative (table leg in one hand, beer bottle in the other!) Finally, if you don't want to resolve every single scuffle in the bar fight, just use the "crowds" rule from the DMG. Consider all the various brawlers that aren't directly involved with the PCs to be a crowd. A square with a crowd in it (up to 4 medium characters, provided they're in one heck of a grapple) costs 10 feet of movement to move through and gives a +2 cover bonus to AC and reflex saves. True, it might not be chivalrous to grab Joe Peasant and use him as a human shield to block the Burning Hands spell that sorcerer just cast, but it's a good way to stay alive! PS: Climb skill + chandaliers
gijoel 08-16-04, 05:51 PM	Ah bar room brawls, the adventurers way of unwinding. The gang of young street punks out to make a name for themselves by taking on the party. The surly innkeeper with an inchy crossbow finger. The hysterical redhead barmaid who turns into a two fisted fury if anyone gets to close. And don't forget the secret drunken masters convention out back. And what with all that fighting it'd be all too easy for a barrel the inn's famous 300 proof alcohol to be knocked into the fire. Lots of wild punches, allies accidently hitting each other in the face. Opponents who seem immune to subdual damage. The precious artifact the party was looking for is knock onto the floor in full view of a room full of pumped up hooligans. This stuff just writes itself.
Endless_Helix 08-16-04, 06:51 PM	Aaahh... I can remember when I was running around with a surly, grappling drunken master, ah... he was fun... Started more bar fights than the entire city of Waterdeep... A great trick is take a drink and keep it in your mouth without swallowing, and spitting in the face of some fool. reflex 15 or blinded for 1d4+2 rounds. Improved trip is great, as is Improved Sunder. The Ogre Bouncer War 1 with Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack The Changeling Prostitute Commoner 1 with Skill Focus Profession(you can guess The Halfling Barkeep Rogue 2 with Mark of Hospitality.
fizzbang 08-17-04, 01:16 PM	The important part of a barroom brawl is that it's supposed to be fun. It's usually folk blowing off steam, excitement, or just drunkenly fighting. Unless it's a particularly nasty neighborhood, or the PCs have done something to specifically incur the wrath of the folk there, things aren't as serious or dangerous as they are in the rest of the adventuring world. A few important extensions from that basic idea: The fights aren't lethal. There's plenty of punching, wrestling, dirty tricks, and clubbing, but in most barroom brawls, there's not going to be anything that's lethal. The worst a combatant should expect is to wake up missing a few teeth and their wallet. Anyone who decides to pull a blade (or fire, or other lethal implements) in a fight tends to get the attention of everyone in the brawl. Murder is bad for business, so expect anyone who goes too far to get ganged up on and tossed out. The fights are free-form. There aren't usually premade teams in a brawl, beyond "me and my pals vs everyone else". Brawlers move from scrap to scrap, usually without any real strategy beyond "hit em". It ends up being a king of the hill type of fight, especially when the effects of alcohol have been involved. This works especially well with the free-form rounds that were discussed earlier, or even just with soft-roleplay without dice. If you do insist on keeping it all by the book, expect a lot of unarmed attacks, grappling, tripping, improvised weapons, attacks of opportunity, and maybe a dash of light choking. The fights can lead to friendships. Friendships can be made in a good brawl, even between folk who've just bashed each other. A round of drinks is a good way to clear the air after a brawl, and it's a classic way for groups to form. Of course, these rules are for good-natured types of brawls. If the fight turns nasty, because someone ups the ante with a knife, does some major taboo for the area, or maybe is just an unpopular minority, it can quickly turn into a real fight. And, of course, bad bars (or just bad towns) may have folk who are less interested in good-natured brawls and more interested in cold-blooded killing, if only so they can return to their drinks uninterrupted...
Red_Decker 08-17-04, 06:37 PM	Originally posted by fizzbang <snip>The fights can lead to friendships. Friendships can be made in a good brawl, even between folk who've just bashed each other. A round of drinks is a good way to clear the air after a brawl, and it's a classic way for groups to form. Of course, these rules are for good-natured types of brawls. If the fight turns nasty, because someone ups the ante with a knife, does some major taboo for the area, or maybe is just an unpopular minority, it can quickly turn into a real fight. And, of course, bad bars (or just bad towns) may have folk who are less interested in good-natured brawls and more interested in cold-blooded killing, if only so they can return to their drinks uninterrupted... Most of my friends have been in a fight with me at one point. Keep it good natured and just have fun. Lots of wild action and broken bottles knocking people out, don't forget the obligatory person flying out the window. Afterwards hang out, be groovy, and share the fish. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Latif Khan 08-21-04, 11:22 AM	Ok the Brawl went of like this: (ok not really a brawl.) A shifter thief tried to rob the druid who noticed it, in the other room some fighting broke lose cos of some gambling. The groups halfling cleric went into the brawl lifting enough purses to get back the money he lost gambling and while at it avoided all sorts of chair legs bier mugs and so on (he was damn lucky rolling one 19 or 20 after the other...) The Half-Orc Psi-Warrior (sigh) tried to grapple the thief, but the nimble rogue got away, to be stopped by the silver flame guy, who drew a nasty knife, facing the rogue- The Doorguards came in, not noticing the action in the front room (thief) and went directly to the gambling room. The Psi Warr. finally managed to pick up the shifter rogue, the silver flame guy seeing himself outnumbered, fled and called the citywatch, blaming the PCs with starting the brawl, kidnapping the poor shifter and attacking him. The Pcs flee, seperating, the rogue turning back inside and getting hooked up with the local bard (my contact introducing next adventure) and the rest running to the next bridge to jump pnto a passig boat.