Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ravenfeather 09-20-05, 11:39 AM	Hello, I am interested in Eberron, even though I do not think I'll ever play in it - at least not in my current group. But anyway, I read through some articles and am not sure wether I quite understand. Could you say wether the following statements are true or wrong? Eberron has an atmosphere that is a compromise between classic fantasy like the lord of the rings, modern "pulp" like Sin City or Pulp Fiction, and hero stories like The Three Musqueteers, Zorro, or even Superman or Western Monies. Its atmosphere is closer to dark future than fantasy. Eberron is way closer to High Fantasy than even the Forgotten Realms (except the land of Halrua) or Greyhawk or The Kingdoms of Kalamar are. It stresses the good vs. evil conflict way less than other campaign worlds do. The battle between good and evil is more an inner, personal battle. A warriors cause is hardly ever defending the good or spreading evil. The rules for spells that polarize between good and evil (such as detect evil or spells that have different impact on good and evil creatures) are slightly modified. While you can use the Eberron Campaign and its additional rules, such as those action points that were mentioned, without using the Miniatures game, it is like playing in the Forgotten Realms without Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't imply a pure RPG but half a board game. While it is generally darker it ain't "gothic". Meaning things happening are intentionally mundane and unromantic, even when they are of magical nature. Things are "dirty", or pulp as was the word actually used. It will be the default setting for the forth edition of D&D, since classic fantasy becomes less popular. Unlike other settings (except Kalamar), there are great organizations and houses that operate accross the game world. Thus it isn't splintered in completely different "subsettings" as the Forgotten Realms are.
Cloud Divider 09-20-05, 11:55 AM	[quote]Eberron has an atmosphere that is a compromise between classic fantasy like the lord of the rings, modern "pulp" like Sin City or Pulp Fiction, and hero stories like The Three Musqueteers, Zorro, or even Superman or Western Monies. Its atmosphere is closer to dark future than fantasy. Overall, I'd say that's fairly apt. Whether the atmosphere is more "dark future" (e.g. your dystopian Cyberpunk/Shadowrun-type stuff) or "traditional fantasy," is much more a factor of play-style. As a setting, it can handle both. Sharn, certainly makes it pretty easy to adapt Cyberpunk/Shadowrun-style motifs. Or Sam Spade-style noir. On the other hand, if you want to save the village of Slick Rock River from some rampaging orcs/bandits/monsters ("traditional fantasy"), you can do that too. Eberron is way closer to High Fantasy than even the Forgotten Realms (except the land of Halrua) or Greyhawk or The Kingdoms of Kalamar are. Hm. That's a tough one. This REALLY depends on how you choose to interpret "High Fantasy" to mean. To me, I think "High Fantasy" to translate to something rather Tolkiensian or "Late Middle Ages, with Orcs" in feel. Which isn't really how Eberron feels, IMO. High Magic? Yeah, Magic appears all over the place, beyond just +1 swords and mages blowing up castles. It's used to support lifestyles. It stresses the good vs. evil conflict way less than other campaign worlds do. The battle between good and evil is more an inner, personal battle. A warriors cause is hardly ever defending the good or spreading evil. The rules for spells that polarize between good and evil (such as detect evil or spells that have different impact on good and evil creatures) are slightly modified. Yeah, something like that. I personally like that you can have an ideological conflict, between two (mostly) Good factions/nations (e.g. Breland and Aundair). While you can use the Eberron Campaign and its additional rules, such as those action points that were mentioned, without using the Miniatures game, it is like playing in the Forgotten Realms without Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't imply a pure RPG but half a board game. Not so true. I've gotten by most of my campaign essentially without miniatures or grids. D&D/d20 is what tends to require the gridmaps (all the 5' steps, 30' moves, Reach, and so forth), not Eberron. There've been a few instances where I brought out the graph paper, but that was more to ensure everyone had the right idea of what was where (sometimes my descriptions can be a bit lacking in the specifics - I envision one thing, but don't quite get the download to the players complete). While it is generally darker it ain't "gothic". Meaning things happening are intentionally mundane and unromantic, even when they are of magical nature. Things are "dirty", or pulp as was the word actually used. This is a tough one. It's got a "Yes and No" answer. It will be the default setting for the forth edition of D&D, since classic fantasy becomes less popular. That's something I certainly hadn't heard before... It's the default setting for D&D Online, but that's it.
Tom McCarthy 09-20-05, 11:55 AM	Eberron has an atmosphere that is a compromise between classic fantasy like the lord of the rings, modern "pulp" like Sin City or Pulp Fiction, and hero stories like The Three Musqueteers, Zorro, or even Superman or Western Monies. Its atmosphere is closer to dark future than fantasy. The tone is pulpish and stresses adventure. I wouldn't call it dark future, though. You can have powerful mercantile houses without feeling like they're oppressing the population. Eberron is way closer to High Fantasy than even the Forgotten Realms (except the land of Halrua) or Greyhawk or The Kingdoms of Kalamar are. Eberron has magical conveniences and devices which have affected the culture and changed the world, so in that way, it is high fantasy. But it also has far fewer high-level mages (or player characters) than most settings. Low-level magic is more common, even ubiquitous, but high-level magic is as rare or rarer. More later...
Nurgan_the_drunked 09-20-05, 12:23 PM	Eberron has an atmosphere that is a compromise between classic fantasy like the lord of the rings, modern "pulp" like Sin City or Pulp Fiction, and hero stories like The Three Musqueteers, Zorro, or even Superman or Western Monies. Its atmosphere is closer to dark future than fantasy. Eberron does seem to be designed so that westerns, pulp detective, swashbuckling and gangster storylines have a place and match the feel, but so can the healthy pursuits of demon slaying, tomb raiding, cultist- murdering and jungle trudging. Without knowing what you mean by "Dark future" (it's not any particular form of dystopian vision), it's hard to say, but in some ways it is quite different to classic fantasy. It stresses the good vs. evil conflict way less than other campaign worlds do. The battle between good and evil is more an inner, personal battle. A warriors cause is hardly ever defending the good or spreading evil. The rules for spells that polarize between good and evil (such as detect evil or spells that have different impact on good and evil creatures) are slightly modified. There isn't that much rules change in terms of alignment, although creatures are less bound to an alignment by race. The main difference is that few of the conflicts in the game are clear- cut Good/Evil, and even those mainly evil groups have motives beyond sheer outright destruction. While you can use the Eberron Campaign and its additional rules, such as those action points that were mentioned, without using the Miniatures game, it is like playing in the Forgotten Realms without Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't imply a pure RPG but half a board game. I haven't noticed this at all about Eberron. While there may be groups who play it like this, that is probably due to the group, not the setting. Several Eberron-based creatures appear in the minatures game. This is a seperate thing to roleplaying in the setting, which have as much RP as regular gaming While it is generally darker it ain't "gothic". Meaning things happening are intentionally mundane and unromantic, even when they are of magical nature. Things are "dirty", or pulp as was the word actually used. The essential feel is that because magic is part of the world, it isn't some bizarre mysterious thing, any more than cars or computers in our world. It's just something that is. Depending on how you want Gothic, you can still achieve the feel, but the romance and excitement comes from when the unexpected, not the magic. It will be the default setting for the forth edition of D&D, since classic fantasy becomes less popular. There are no plans for 4th Ed at current. And when there are, I personally hope they won't use Eberron as standard. Whether Classic fantasy is becoming less popular is negotiable, but it's a genre with which D&D is strongly linked, and Eberron's feel (and different approach to the races) is too far from classic D&D to focus the edition on. Unlike other settings (except Kalamar), there are great organizations and houses that operate accross the game world. Thus it isn't splintered in completely different "subsettings" as the Forgotten Realms are. This sounds about right, although their presence doesn't dominate the region, and each area has a distinct feel to it. But the houses do operate throughout different regions, but adventuring in the demon wastes is likely to be different to in the Mhazaar principalities. Hope this helps answer your questions. Feel free to ask anything else
Raster 09-20-05, 02:49 PM	Might as well add my own opinion. After all, everyone else is doing it ;) Its atmosphere is closer to dark future than fantasy. Well, Eberron is closer to dark future than any of D&D's current settings, but on a scale with fantasy on one end and dark future on the other, I'd say it's still slightly closer to fantasy. After all, the majority of Khorvaire is still populated with villagers who may serfs or might actually own a small portion of land, who pay taxes to a lord, who in turn pays tribute to a king or queen. Magewrights may make high quality hoes, shovels, and plowshares with magecraft, but if a farmer has an unseen servant working his fields or a +1 plowshare of nature's blessing then it's either because he's an accomplished magewright or because his lord is the one who's paying for it, and will likely expect higher taxes. Eberron is way closer to High Fantasy than even the Forgotten Realms (except the land of Halrua) or Greyhawk or The Kingdoms of Kalamar are. As other posters have said, that depends on your definition of High Fantasy... It stresses the good vs. evil conflict way less than other campaign worlds do. The battle between good and evil is more an inner, personal battle. A warriors cause is hardly ever defending the good or spreading evil. The rules for spells that polarize between good and evil (such as detect evil or spells that have different impact on good and evil creatures) are slightly modified. The battle between good and evil is still there, but as you say, much less emphasis is placed on it. Eberron is a world filled with people who have their own worries, cares, motivations, and ideals. There are people who seek to do good and banish evil from the world, most notably followers of the silver flame, among others, but exacly what good is and how evil you have to be to be EVIL is something that every person in the setting has to figure out for themselves. In Eberron the saying that "the road to hell is paved with the best intentions" is sometimes very true. However the only rules change is that clerics do not have to be within one step of their deity's alignment. While you can use the Eberron Campaign and its additional rules, such as those action points that were mentioned, without using the Miniatures game, it is like playing in the Forgotten Realms without Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't imply a pure RPG but half a board game. This all depends on your gaming group, but if anything, Eberron is less dependant on miniatures than the 3.5 core books imply D&D being, because Eberron lends itself easily to aventures that are entirely roleplay focused, such as mysteries and court intrigue. There's planty of action to be had as well, though, so as before, it depends on the kind of game your DM likes to run. While it is generally darker it ain't "gothic". Meaning things happening are intentionally mundane and unromantic, even when they are of magical nature. Things are "dirty", or pulp as was the word actually used. One again, this depends on how you want to play it. While you're right that a gritty, dark, pulpy atmosphere is what the setting is aiming for, the presence of the Lhazaar Principalities almost demands that you try a campaign where your players are the typical free-spirited, romanticized pirates having adventure on the high seas, seeking fame, fortune, and beautiful women (or incredibly handsome and dashing men, if you're lucky enough to have some lady pirates in your group.) It will be the default setting for the forth edition of D&D, since classic fantasy becomes less popular. This is in no way guaranteed. WotC has already said it has no current plans for 4th edition, and it seems unlikely that Eberron will become the default setting because they need something generic, which Eberron is certainly not. As to whether classic fantasy is becoming less popular, I consider Christopher Paolini's Eragon to be very classic fantasy, and it seems very popular. Unlike other settings (except Kalamar), there are great organizations and houses that operate accross the game world. Thus it isn't splintered in completely different "subsettings" as the Forgotten Realms are. This is very true, although many of the oranizations' influence stops at the edge of Khorvaire. There are exceptions, such as the chamber and the dreaming dark, who have a large degree on power on one of the other continents and only a token influence in Khorvaire, but the dragonmarked houses probably don't have any influence past Stormreach on Xen'drik, and in fact, have very little influence on the savage regions of Khorvaire such as the Demon Wastes or Q'barra. Hope I've been able to contribute towards giving you a better understanding of the setting, and happy gaming to you, whatever setting you play in.
Ravenfeather 09-21-05, 02:28 AM	Well, I actually meant high magic when I said high fantasy. And meant it in so far that the overall wealth of the population is that of at least a later industrialization society and that by means of magic instead of technology. And when I said dark future I meant Mad Max, Waterworld, Planet of Apes or the "Engel" RPG. Don't know what lead me into assuming this, obviously it completely different. Most dark future environments assume the absence of culture and society beyond some despotic bandit leaders. Which is obviously not the case in Eberron. I believe what lead me into saying this was remembering the intro video of the "Steampunk" video game. Never played it, only seen someone else playing it. In the video two knights in full armor were facing each with uge swords and fought an epic battle. Eventually one of the was beaten to ground. He pulled a revolver and shot the knight above him down.
Setherial 09-21-05, 02:54 AM	While you can use the Eberron Campaign and its additional rules, such as those action points that were mentioned, without using the Miniatures game, it is like playing in the Forgotten Realms without Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't imply a pure RPG but half a board game. I never use miniatures or a grid, it narrows the possebilities to a 2 demensional space and kills the image that forms in your head of the situation the DM describes. I don't know where you get this ??
Ravenfeather 09-21-05, 03:01 AM	The battle between good and evil is still there, but as you say, much less emphasis is placed on it. Eberron is a world filled with people who have their own worries, cares, motivations, and ideals. There are people who seek to do good and banish evil from the world, most notably followers of the silver flame, among others, but exacly what good is and how evil you have to be to be EVIL is something that every person in the setting has to figure out for themselves. In Eberron the saying that "the road to hell is paved with the best intentions" is sometimes very true. However the only rules change is that clerics do not have to be within one step of their deity's alignment. Well, that's one of my major problem. If D&D rules apply this not really true, in so far that I can always cast Detect Evil to tell you. Evil has problems entering holy grounds and evil is affected by a holy greatsword more and divine damage. D&D system implies that you're evil or not, or that you are either good or not. That is not only a reflection of your actions, not even a state of mind, but physical reality. IMHO a campaign like Eberron would suggest using no alignment system at all or a percent and point system similiar to the one in Neverwinter Nights.
Nurgan_the_drunked 09-21-05, 05:45 AM	Well, that's one of my major problem. If D&D rules apply this not really true, in so far that I can always cast Detect Evil to tell you. Evil has problems entering holy grounds and evil is affected by a holy greatsword more and divine damage. D&D system implies that you're evil or not, or that you are either good or not. That is not only a reflection of your actions, not even a state of mind, but physical reality. IMHO a campaign like Eberron would suggest using no alignment system at all or a percent and point system similiar to the one in Neverwinter Nights. Eberron, from what I've seen, makes a distinction between "good" and "right", or between "evil" and "wrong", and being evil isn't a certain sign you're out for destruction or undeserving of life. Alignment seems to be more defined by your cause and dedication to it than any definite "side" on a battle between good and evil. The "fuzziness" comes partly from the lessened connection between races, and partly from the fact that you're a lot more likely to have good enemies and evil allies than in other campaigns. The Silver Flame, the main group that is "Good" battling "Evil", has its fair share of witch-burners and torturing inquisition, as well as holy knights and righteous paladins.
Blizzard_Bobsan 09-21-05, 07:04 AM	Ravenfeather, you may want to read this article to find out more the setting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eberron Some of your original questions are already answered in it.
The White Sorcerer 09-21-05, 07:57 AM	Eberron has an atmosphere that is a compromise between classic fantasy like the lord of the rings, modern "pulp" like Sin City or Pulp Fiction, and hero stories like The Three Musqueteers, Zorro, or even Superman or Western Monies. Its atmosphere is closer to dark future than fantasy. Absolutely, except maybe for the whole dark future thing. Eberron is way closer to High Fantasy than even the Forgotten Realms (except the land of Halrua) or Greyhawk or The Kingdoms of Kalamar are. High fantasy = lots of fantastic elements. High magic = lots of magic. Eberron fits both. It stresses the good vs. evil conflict way less than other campaign worlds do. The battle between good and evil is more an inner, personal battle. A warriors cause is hardly ever defending the good or spreading evil. The rules for spells that polarize between good and evil (such as detect evil or spells that have different impact on good and evil creatures) are slightly modified. The spells aren't modified, because alignment isn't modified. While you can use the Eberron Campaign and its additional rules, such as those action points that were mentioned, without using the Miniatures game, it is like playing in the Forgotten Realms without Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't imply a pure RPG but half a board game. No more so than Forgotten Realms or Greayhawk or Dragonlance. While it is generally darker it ain't "gothic". Meaning things happening are intentionally mundane and unromantic, even when they are of magical nature. Things are "dirty", or pulp as was the word actually used. Depends on the region, really. Eberron is designed for all kinds of styles. It will be the default setting for the forth edition of D&D, since classic fantasy becomes less popular. Most propably not. Unlike other settings (except Kalamar), there are great organizations and houses that operate accross the game world. Thus it isn't splintered in completely different "subsettings" as the Forgotten Realms are. True.
Gurv 09-21-05, 03:42 PM	High fantasy = lots of fantastic elements. High magic = lots of magic. Eberron fits both. Although all technically true, the term "wide magic" has been thrown around quite a bit to draw a distinction between high magic settings where powerful spellcasters and items are a common theme and worlds like Eberron where high-level magic remains rare while low-level magic is widespread. Many people erroneously assume that when people say that Eberron is high magic, they mean that it has a lot of high-level magic, which it does not. The spells aren't modified, because alignment isn't modified. Correct. Alignment itself is not changed in Eberron. But the role of alignment which has been given a different angle in the setting. Creatures which would be expected to have a certain alignment as assigned by the MM often do not, for example. Although evil gold dragons might occur in other settings, on Eberron they are not simply an exception to the rule; the rule is pretty much out the window. Likewise, one might find a cleric to a good deity performing evil acts and justifying them without loss of spells. In general, although alignment is still present and applies to most things normally, one cannot assume that a good guy is always doing good or that a bad guy isn't.
The White Sorcerer 09-21-05, 04:29 PM	"wide magic" Many people erroneously assume that when people say that Eberron is high magic, they mean that it has a lot of high-level magic, which it does not. Indeed, and if we continue to use terms like "wide magic" instead of using the term high magic in its true meaning, people will always assume that.