Batman came to Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Batman came to Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KVW
05-04-06, 12:29 PM Our last Adventure was a monty haul adventure so when the New DM took over Batman came to Eberron and punished our characters. Batman is this DM's tool to level the playing field when he thinks our characters have too much stuff to unbalance the game Batman comes deals out tons of non lethal damages takes our stuff and humiliates us in general then leaves. I don't know what batman has but he's impossible to hit. Batman avventures are always frustraiting.
MadLetter
05-04-06, 01:37 PM Hint: Buy a hammer gun. Shoot it in your DMs face.

And then leave his group. "Too many good items" is the DMs fault, not yours.

Seriously... leave - that - group.
Hodo
05-04-06, 01:53 PM The tone of the OP seems to suggest that this is a pretty light hearted campaign. How can you take it seriously, when your DnD charaters are being beat up by some unbeatable NPC known as "Batman"?

I've played in plenty of campaigns like this. Free use of metagame information, heavy use of powergaming (bordering on munchkinism), special house rules, custom classes, races, or spells, used with little discipline, everyone playing as if they where chaotic neutral/evil/stupid (even the Paladins), and lots of diversions.

And it can be a ton of fun. Just as long as the players know that's how the campaign is going to be and are alright with it. I've had a campaign that was pretty much nothing but the entire party trying to kill one member- the elven, half-dragon, vampiric wizard/fighter. Eveyone had a blast, even if it took us a while to get him (we were low level).

Batman sounds like this DM's way of reigning in characters' powers so they don't decimate the campaign. "Okay, I've let your level 5 character play around with that +5 vorpal longsword long enough to slaughter the dragon (that was fun for everyone), but you can't keep it the WHOLE campaign."

So rather than doing something like sending in an Ethereal Filcher to nab it, or simply forcing the player to erase it from his sheet and memory, the DM declares that Batman comes down, beats the player senseless, and makes off with the sword. Much sillier and more entertaining than the first 2 options in my opinion. However, it only works if the players have a similar sense of humor, and know what is going on.
Korhal_IV
05-04-06, 01:59 PM Your new DM has a valid complaint; the old DM's playstyle left you guys overpowered for your level. Unfortunately, OP, from the tone of your post, you didn't enjoy the way he handled it at all. I suggest you go talk to your DM. There are multiple other ways your DM could have handled it, from the least realistic disappearing item path ("Just slash it off your sheet, guys") to powering up opponents (+1 CR to all!).

Although, I gotta admit, being beaten up by Batman for your +4 sword is pretty funny. :D
obtusehobbit
05-04-06, 02:02 PM I second the leave the group opinion.

If your DM doesn't have any better ideas of how to tone down the group then man you need to move on. Now I will say that as a DM I have had to destroy my parties item horde, but the key to doing it is to add it into the story in a meaningful way. A DM should not just have god come down and take the equipment, but an thief who steals there stuff and leads them on an epic chase across the continent is fun, or they are caught up in some trumped up charges by the local goverment and end up having to sell all there items to stay out of jail or escape. Now those are just a couple ways to tone down the inventory and add to story depth all in one. If you like the group talk to your DM and see if he will provide some sort of story driven way to tone your goup down.

Sorry to go on I just hate the DM who says it happens because he say it does.
obtusehobbit
05-04-06, 02:02 PM Gosh Darn Computer. Stop it bad computer!!!
Hodo
05-04-06, 02:26 PM If your DM doesn't have any better ideas of how to tone down the group then man you need to move on. Now I will say that as a DM I have had to destroy my parties item horde, but the key to doing it is to add it into the story in a meaningful way. A DM should not just have god come down and take the equipment, but an thief who steals there stuff and leads them on an epic chase across the continent is fun, or they are caught up in some trumped up charges by the local goverment and end up having to sell all there items to stay out of jail or escape. Now those are just a couple ways to tone down the inventory and add to story depth all in one. If you like the group talk to your DM and see if he will provide some sort of story driven way to tone your goup down.

Sorry to go on I just hate the DM who says it happens because he say it does.

I'd have to disagree. I think, of all the options he could have chosen for removing a number of powerful items in a game, that this was one of the better choices.

If I'm losing my overpowered items to never get them back again, I'd rather it be quick and painless. Making it funny just makes it easier.

I would not like it to be a long and drawn out process where I am essentially forced to have my character willingly give up their items, or undergo a long campaign where I am reminded of losing them. Even moreso, I would not like to entertain the idea that I could get them back, possibly attempting to steal them back, or chasing the sthief over the continent, only to find out that it was the DM's intent all along that I would never get my stuff back.

Heavy handed use of DM power (which is what taking overpowering items is), while sometimes a necessary evil, is generally better accepted when you admit it's heavy handed use of DM power, as opposed to trying to pretend it's something else.
darkness ninja of light
05-05-06, 03:10 PM Spiderman's in Eberron (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82071.jpg)
Hard to see it in there, but check out the bookshelf. I'm sure if Eberron can have Forgotten Realms AND Spiderman books in it, Batman would fit in too.
Quicksilver
05-07-06, 10:34 PM I quite like the idea of using a powerful NPC to remain undeserved items from characters. If your characters aren't powerful enough to keep their items, they shouldn't have them. More powerful NPCs will want them, and as soon as they are used in public, they should be stolen. Run the theft properly (Listen checks, etc.), but don't leave the players a trail of breadcrumbs back to their items the way you might if it was an adventure hook. In one particularly memorable encounter years ago, my party got hold of a very powerful magic sword. Soon afterward, a famous and powerful warrior arrived with his retinue and suggested we give it to him. We discussed it for a little while, then handed it over. It wasn't worth our lives, and we hadn't handed it to an overtly evil adversary. If the campaign had been longer, we might have gotten it back when we were more powerful. The beating from Batman just adds injury to insult. Maybe Sharn's Black Dragon would ask nicely and only beat you up if you say no.
Jürgen Hubert
05-16-06, 05:56 AM Arbitrarily taking away the stuff of the PCs is never a good idea. Instead, the DM should simply raise the difficulty of the adventures to reflect the increased power of the PCs.

Or if they simply have lots of money, he could encourage them to spend it in a variety of creative ways. Appeal to their egos. Soon, the average PC will have wasted much of it away, in my experience...

Of course, that doesn't mean that no one should try to steal their magic items from the PCs. Quite the contrary - especially if they flaunt them. But give the PCs enough warning signs and chances to foil it. In fact, let an NPC try to steal them, but fail. This way, they know that their stuff is threatened and prepare to keep it somewhere safe. And if they continue to ignore warning signs and fail to take precautions, then they can't complain if a thief is eventually successful...

The point here is that if they didn't have to work in getting all those items, then at least they should do some work in protecting them. Which can be the source of new adventures...
Jürgen Hubert
05-16-06, 06:01 AM I quite like the idea of using a powerful NPC to remain undeserved items from characters. If your characters aren't powerful enough to keep their items, they shouldn't have them. More powerful NPCs will want them, and as soon as they are used in public, they should be stolen. Run the theft properly (Listen checks, etc.), but don't leave the players a trail of breadcrumbs back to their items the way you might if it was an adventure hook. In one particularly memorable encounter years ago, my party got hold of a very powerful magic sword. Soon afterward, a famous and powerful warrior arrived with his retinue and suggested we give it to him. We discussed it for a little while, then handed it over.

Yes, but you had a choice. You could have tried to fight, flee, talk him out of it or try some other approach.

And this is infinitely preferable to:

"The warrior attacks you and beats you within an inch of your life. No, don't bother rolling - he is much better than you and automatically succeeds, and his henchmen prevent you from fleeing. Then he takes your sword and mockingly says: 'This suits me much better than you lowly little punks! So, who's your daddy now?'"

That's not role-playing, that's the DM engaging in some twisted little fantasy of his.
cypher_zero
05-16-06, 10:12 PM What it really boils down to is that your DM feels he needs to keep you from being too powerful because of whatever items you posess; and he's being lazy. While it might be amusing to have Batman show up and beat the crap out of your character for him, it's frustrating for you (duh!). As other's that I'm too lazy to quote have said, if it's a silly campaign, expect silly crap to happen (i.e. Batman). If not then smack your DM and let him know that you (and your group?) want to be more serious about the campaign. If he feels that you're becoming too powerful it's his fault, not yours. While I, being a DM, am of the opinion that the DM is always right, someone can be right and still be an idiot. Like I said, he's being lazy using Batman. If he want's to de-power you the answer is simple, at least from where I'm sitting, make the items less powerful. What good is a +4 vorpal longsword versus Oozes? or undead? or incoporeal creatures? Not much. It's still a +4 longsword, but vorpal is a powerful ability, make it useless for the time being and the problem is solved. The other thing that could be done by the DM to prevent the aquisition of more powerful items is to toss you someplace where you can't buy crap. How many stores are there in the realm of the dead? One... maybe. However, this is a bit more work on the DM's part, hence the reason I think he's being lazy.

As far as leaving your group goes... I wouldn't. I'd just find a way around him stealing my items all the time, like playing a Monk, Warlock, or a Soulknife; three classes that allow you to function fairly well even if you're stripped naked and forced to fight for your life.

The last thing you could do (and I don't recommend this) is voice your concers and then proceed to annoy the crap out of the DM. "I'm not going in that cave without my shield... the one that jerk Batman stole. Hey everybody! Let's go try and hunt down Batman so we can have our stuff back!" Odds are the DM won't like this and won't be prepared for you to try and hunt down Batman. He'll probably tell you one way or another that you can't find Batman at all, ever; at which point in time your characters should all go get drunk in a bar, hit on the waitresses, cause chaos and mayhem, and just plain refuse to advance the campaign in any meaningful way till the DM stops being a jerk about taking your stuff.

That's all the suggestions I've got for now. Hope that helped some. Good luck.
MadLetter
05-18-06, 02:25 AM [QUOTE=Quicksilver]If your characters aren't powerful enough to keep their items, they shouldn't have them.QUOTE]

random evil guy of level 10 searching for minor magic items. He finds a group of 4 level 5 PCs with magical equipment. He goes there and kills them.

random evil dragon heard of the players (lvl15) having powerful items. He as a great wyrm flys off and kills them, stealing their belongings of magical power.

random evil local lord poisons the PCs in their sleep, sends a dozen assasings and orders all official police-like institutions to arrest and then kill the PCs. Because he wants the magical items, becuase they're magical.

So okay this is absoluteley useless. There is always someone with the bigger Hammer and the faster sword around. Following your credo you would never want a magical item until you're level NI. Because else you must fear that in the instant you take up the item and fight with it once everyone will be behind you.
So useless.

Please think it though fully next time.
Quicksilver
05-18-06, 03:27 AM So okay this is absoluteley useless. There is always someone with the bigger Hammer and the faster sword around. Following your credo you would never want a magical item until you're level NI. Because else you must fear that in the instant you take up the item and fight with it once everyone will be behind you.
So useless.

Please think it though fully next time.

The ability to take away overpowered magical items is obviously something that a DM has. How the DM does it is the question. The Batman example is bad, but it is not completely useless. If the DM needs to remove some overpowered items they have accidentally given to the characters, then the use of powerful NPCs to steal or claim them is not out of the question. It wouldn't happen all the time. It would happen exactly as often as the DM decides. If you play it out and allow the PCs to make decisions, then they needn't feel too bad about losing their overpowered stuff.

The limit to this method is a question of roleplaying the NPCs. Who knows that the PCs have these items? How will they find the PCs? So, not everyone will flock to take the items. It can be the subject of an adventure: while gathering information, the party learns that someone is looking for them, hoping to buy or steal their item. Why should the PC party always be the hunters?
Another question is one of reputation. Wyatt Earp had a lovely, customised Colt Buntliner, the envy of gunslingers. Many people would have looked at the pistol, thought "I'd like that", then realised who wore it and thought again. If your characters are as good as their items, then people who want those items will fear them for their own abilities or position. The situation balances itself.

This scenario:random evil guy of level 10 searching for minor magic items. He finds a group of 4 level 5 PCs with magical equipment. He goes there and kills them. works well if you balance the CR. He goes there and tries to kill them. If he succeeds is up to the PCs.
random evil dragon heard of the players (lvl15) having powerful items. He as a great wyrm flys off and kills them, stealing their belongings of magical power.
Where are the PCs if dragons drop out of the sky to kill them? How does the dragon know where they are? What do they have that a Great Wyrm wants badly enough to go out of its way and abandon its own hoard?
random evil local lord poisons the PCs in their sleep, sends a dozen assasings and orders all official police-like institutions to arrest and then kill the PCs. Because he wants the magical items, becuase they're magical.
This is just Deus Ex Machina: they've got no chance. If you play the same scenario, but give the characters warning, then they've got an exciting chase out of the local lands and a powerful but distant villain to fight as they gain power.

There is always someone bigger and better. It makes for a more interesting campaign if your PCs don't strut around like they're gods, just because they have powerful items and never meet anyone better than they are.

Oh, and if you'd like an literary example of high-powered NPCs chasing PCs for overpowered magic items, there is always the Ring Wraiths chasing Frodo in Lord of the Rings.
Jürgen Hubert
05-18-06, 04:04 AM Like I said, I don't approve of arbitrarily taking away the magic items of characters. Still, attempts to take away these items can be fun adventure material, as long as they involve more than a simple Pickpocked/Spot skill contest. So here is my idea how this could be played out:

There is a well-known master thief who is reputed to be able to steal everything he sets his mind to. He always sends his "calling card" to his future victims - on it, he announces that he intends to steal a certain item within one week.

And so far, he has always succeeded.

Now let us assume that the PCs have a certain powerful magic item that they have used or carried around in public - in other words, it is common knowledge that they have it. Now this master thief sends his calling card to the PCs and announces his attention to steal it.

What are the PCs going to do about it?

Well, usually the party will go to extreme lengths to protect their property. Let them work out the security for this item - where they will store it, which party member will protect it at which time, which magical traps have been put around it, and so on. After all, they only have to protect it for one week. How had can that be?

But then things start to go wrong. Situations arise in which using this item would be very useful, possibly even vital - but then they have to take it away from their storage and into places where the thief could steal it! Then various PCs suddenly get invitations and summons from various Very Important People, or they suddenly have other pressing reasons to go somewhere else - but if they do so, who will guard their magic item? Or perhaps the local city guard receives a tip about something illegal in the dwelling of the PCs - but is one of the guards raiding the building the master thief in disguise?

The whole thing should be a battle of wits between the artistry and conmanship of the master thief and the paranoia and ingenuity of the players. Even when the master thief does steal the item, they should have the feeling that they were beaten by the best and only plot revenge against the thief, and not the DM.

And if the thief doesn't succeed, then his ego will cause him to seek to defeat the PCs in some other way. In other words, this could be the beginning of a beautiful enemity...
yrogerg
05-18-06, 10:18 AM The problem is, Batman is just another case of 'Arrow through the neck', or 'rocks fall, everyone dies'. Yes, as DM you have final control over the setting and can use heavy-handed methods to 'fix' problems with the game, but it's a lot better to use a light touch.

For example, if I thought a game was getting boring because the players had weapons that were too powerful... I'd have them get arrested. Or captured. Or something. And their weapons would get 'confiscated' by the town watch or enemy faction, and would quickly make their way to the nearest market and sold to the highest bidder, never to be seen again (or very much later, in the hands of the BBEG).

Same effect, but you've added a variety of plot hooks, including a nice prison-break scenario. I've never had call to say this before, but that's way cooler than Batman.
Thrincold
05-18-06, 10:43 AM My question for the OP is this: Does this DM have to regularly have to use "batman" to power you down after the previous DM. If that is the case, maybe the problem is between them, or with the other DM playing out his munchkin fantasies while he is in charge, hoping to have a ton of neat stuff when the other guy takes over.

Talk to your DM about why he does this, and if you don't like the method, how he does this. With the little info presented we could bash this guy till the world ends, but he may have his reasons, even if his methods are suspect.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KVW 05-04-06, 12:29 PM	Our last Adventure was a monty haul adventure so when the New DM took over Batman came to Eberron and punished our characters. Batman is this DM's tool to level the playing field when he thinks our characters have too much stuff to unbalance the game Batman comes deals out tons of non lethal damages takes our stuff and humiliates us in general then leaves. I don't know what batman has but he's impossible to hit. Batman avventures are always frustraiting.
MadLetter 05-04-06, 01:37 PM	Hint: Buy a hammer gun. Shoot it in your DMs face. And then leave his group. "Too many good items" is the DMs fault, not yours. Seriously... leave - that - group.
Hodo 05-04-06, 01:53 PM	The tone of the OP seems to suggest that this is a pretty light hearted campaign. How can you take it seriously, when your DnD charaters are being beat up by some unbeatable NPC known as "Batman"? I've played in plenty of campaigns like this. Free use of metagame information, heavy use of powergaming (bordering on munchkinism), special house rules, custom classes, races, or spells, used with little discipline, everyone playing as if they where chaotic neutral/evil/stupid (even the Paladins), and lots of diversions. And it can be a ton of fun. Just as long as the players know that's how the campaign is going to be and are alright with it. I've had a campaign that was pretty much nothing but the entire party trying to kill one member- the elven, half-dragon, vampiric wizard/fighter. Eveyone had a blast, even if it took us a while to get him (we were low level). Batman sounds like this DM's way of reigning in characters' powers so they don't decimate the campaign. "Okay, I've let your level 5 character play around with that +5 vorpal longsword long enough to slaughter the dragon (that was fun for everyone), but you can't keep it the WHOLE campaign." So rather than doing something like sending in an Ethereal Filcher to nab it, or simply forcing the player to erase it from his sheet and memory, the DM declares that Batman comes down, beats the player senseless, and makes off with the sword. Much sillier and more entertaining than the first 2 options in my opinion. However, it only works if the players have a similar sense of humor, and know what is going on.
Korhal_IV 05-04-06, 01:59 PM	Your new DM has a valid complaint; the old DM's playstyle left you guys overpowered for your level. Unfortunately, OP, from the tone of your post, you didn't enjoy the way he handled it at all. I suggest you go talk to your DM. There are multiple other ways your DM could have handled it, from the least realistic disappearing item path ("Just slash it off your sheet, guys") to powering up opponents (+1 CR to all!). Although, I gotta admit, being beaten up by Batman for your +4 sword is pretty funny. :D
obtusehobbit 05-04-06, 02:02 PM	I second the leave the group opinion. If your DM doesn't have any better ideas of how to tone down the group then man you need to move on. Now I will say that as a DM I have had to destroy my parties item horde, but the key to doing it is to add it into the story in a meaningful way. A DM should not just have god come down and take the equipment, but an thief who steals there stuff and leads them on an epic chase across the continent is fun, or they are caught up in some trumped up charges by the local goverment and end up having to sell all there items to stay out of jail or escape. Now those are just a couple ways to tone down the inventory and add to story depth all in one. If you like the group talk to your DM and see if he will provide some sort of story driven way to tone your goup down. Sorry to go on I just hate the DM who says it happens because he say it does.
obtusehobbit 05-04-06, 02:02 PM	Gosh Darn Computer. Stop it bad computer!!!
Hodo 05-04-06, 02:26 PM	If your DM doesn't have any better ideas of how to tone down the group then man you need to move on. Now I will say that as a DM I have had to destroy my parties item horde, but the key to doing it is to add it into the story in a meaningful way. A DM should not just have god come down and take the equipment, but an thief who steals there stuff and leads them on an epic chase across the continent is fun, or they are caught up in some trumped up charges by the local goverment and end up having to sell all there items to stay out of jail or escape. Now those are just a couple ways to tone down the inventory and add to story depth all in one. If you like the group talk to your DM and see if he will provide some sort of story driven way to tone your goup down. Sorry to go on I just hate the DM who says it happens because he say it does. I'd have to disagree. I think, of all the options he could have chosen for removing a number of powerful items in a game, that this was one of the better choices. If I'm losing my overpowered items to never get them back again, I'd rather it be quick and painless. Making it funny just makes it easier. I would not like it to be a long and drawn out process where I am essentially forced to have my character willingly give up their items, or undergo a long campaign where I am reminded of losing them. Even moreso, I would not like to entertain the idea that I could get them back, possibly attempting to steal them back, or chasing the sthief over the continent, only to find out that it was the DM's intent all along that I would never get my stuff back. Heavy handed use of DM power (which is what taking overpowering items is), while sometimes a necessary evil, is generally better accepted when you admit it's heavy handed use of DM power, as opposed to trying to pretend it's something else.
darkness ninja of light 05-05-06, 03:10 PM	Spiderman's in Eberron (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82071.jpg) Hard to see it in there, but check out the bookshelf. I'm sure if Eberron can have Forgotten Realms AND Spiderman books in it, Batman would fit in too.
Quicksilver 05-07-06, 10:34 PM	I quite like the idea of using a powerful NPC to remain undeserved items from characters. If your characters aren't powerful enough to keep their items, they shouldn't have them. More powerful NPCs will want them, and as soon as they are used in public, they should be stolen. Run the theft properly (Listen checks, etc.), but don't leave the players a trail of breadcrumbs back to their items the way you might if it was an adventure hook. In one particularly memorable encounter years ago, my party got hold of a very powerful magic sword. Soon afterward, a famous and powerful warrior arrived with his retinue and suggested we give it to him. We discussed it for a little while, then handed it over. It wasn't worth our lives, and we hadn't handed it to an overtly evil adversary. If the campaign had been longer, we might have gotten it back when we were more powerful. The beating from Batman just adds injury to insult. Maybe Sharn's Black Dragon would ask nicely and only beat you up if you say no.
Jürgen Hubert 05-16-06, 05:56 AM	Arbitrarily taking away the stuff of the PCs is never a good idea. Instead, the DM should simply raise the difficulty of the adventures to reflect the increased power of the PCs. Or if they simply have lots of money, he could encourage them to spend it in a variety of creative ways. Appeal to their egos. Soon, the average PC will have wasted much of it away, in my experience... Of course, that doesn't mean that no one should try to steal their magic items from the PCs. Quite the contrary - especially if they flaunt them. But give the PCs enough warning signs and chances to foil it. In fact, let an NPC try to steal them, but fail. This way, they know that their stuff is threatened and prepare to keep it somewhere safe. And if they continue to ignore warning signs and fail to take precautions, then they can't complain if a thief is eventually successful... The point here is that if they didn't have to work in getting all those items, then at least they should do some work in protecting them. Which can be the source of new adventures...
Jürgen Hubert 05-16-06, 06:01 AM	I quite like the idea of using a powerful NPC to remain undeserved items from characters. If your characters aren't powerful enough to keep their items, they shouldn't have them. More powerful NPCs will want them, and as soon as they are used in public, they should be stolen. Run the theft properly (Listen checks, etc.), but don't leave the players a trail of breadcrumbs back to their items the way you might if it was an adventure hook. In one particularly memorable encounter years ago, my party got hold of a very powerful magic sword. Soon afterward, a famous and powerful warrior arrived with his retinue and suggested we give it to him. We discussed it for a little while, then handed it over. Yes, but you had a choice. You could have tried to fight, flee, talk him out of it or try some other approach. And this is infinitely preferable to: "The warrior attacks you and beats you within an inch of your life. No, don't bother rolling - he is much better than you and automatically succeeds, and his henchmen prevent you from fleeing. Then he takes your sword and mockingly says: 'This suits me much better than you lowly little punks! So, who's your daddy now?'" That's not role-playing, that's the DM engaging in some twisted little fantasy of his.
cypher_zero 05-16-06, 10:12 PM	What it really boils down to is that your DM feels he needs to keep you from being too powerful because of whatever items you posess; and he's being lazy. While it might be amusing to have Batman show up and beat the crap out of your character for him, it's frustrating for you (duh!). As other's that I'm too lazy to quote have said, if it's a silly campaign, expect silly crap to happen (i.e. Batman). If not then smack your DM and let him know that you (and your group?) want to be more serious about the campaign. If he feels that you're becoming too powerful it's his fault, not yours. While I, being a DM, am of the opinion that the DM is always right, someone can be right and still be an idiot. Like I said, he's being lazy using Batman. If he want's to de-power you the answer is simple, at least from where I'm sitting, make the items less powerful. What good is a +4 vorpal longsword versus Oozes? or undead? or incoporeal creatures? Not much. It's still a +4 longsword, but vorpal is a powerful ability, make it useless for the time being and the problem is solved. The other thing that could be done by the DM to prevent the aquisition of more powerful items is to toss you someplace where you can't buy crap. How many stores are there in the realm of the dead? One... maybe. However, this is a bit more work on the DM's part, hence the reason I think he's being lazy. As far as leaving your group goes... I wouldn't. I'd just find a way around him stealing my items all the time, like playing a Monk, Warlock, or a Soulknife; three classes that allow you to function fairly well even if you're stripped naked and forced to fight for your life. The last thing you could do (and I don't recommend this) is voice your concers and then proceed to annoy the crap out of the DM. "I'm not going in that cave without my shield... the one that jerk Batman stole. Hey everybody! Let's go try and hunt down Batman so we can have our stuff back!" Odds are the DM won't like this and won't be prepared for you to try and hunt down Batman. He'll probably tell you one way or another that you can't find Batman at all, ever; at which point in time your characters should all go get drunk in a bar, hit on the waitresses, cause chaos and mayhem, and just plain refuse to advance the campaign in any meaningful way till the DM stops being a jerk about taking your stuff. That's all the suggestions I've got for now. Hope that helped some. Good luck.
MadLetter 05-18-06, 02:25 AM	[QUOTE=Quicksilver]If your characters aren't powerful enough to keep their items, they shouldn't have them.QUOTE] random evil guy of level 10 searching for minor magic items. He finds a group of 4 level 5 PCs with magical equipment. He goes there and kills them. random evil dragon heard of the players (lvl15) having powerful items. He as a great wyrm flys off and kills them, stealing their belongings of magical power. random evil local lord poisons the PCs in their sleep, sends a dozen assasings and orders all official police-like institutions to arrest and then kill the PCs. Because he wants the magical items, becuase they're magical. So okay this is absoluteley useless. There is always someone with the bigger Hammer and the faster sword around. Following your credo you would never want a magical item until you're level NI. Because else you must fear that in the instant you take up the item and fight with it once everyone will be behind you. So useless. Please think it though fully next time.
Quicksilver 05-18-06, 03:27 AM	So okay this is absoluteley useless. There is always someone with the bigger Hammer and the faster sword around. Following your credo you would never want a magical item until you're level NI. Because else you must fear that in the instant you take up the item and fight with it once everyone will be behind you. So useless. Please think it though fully next time. The ability to take away overpowered magical items is obviously something that a DM has. How the DM does it is the question. The Batman example is bad, but it is not completely useless. If the DM needs to remove some overpowered items they have accidentally given to the characters, then the use of powerful NPCs to steal or claim them is not out of the question. It wouldn't happen all the time. It would happen exactly as often as the DM decides. If you play it out and allow the PCs to make decisions, then they needn't feel too bad about losing their overpowered stuff. The limit to this method is a question of roleplaying the NPCs. Who knows that the PCs have these items? How will they find the PCs? So, not everyone will flock to take the items. It can be the subject of an adventure: while gathering information, the party learns that someone is looking for them, hoping to buy or steal their item. Why should the PC party always be the hunters? Another question is one of reputation. Wyatt Earp had a lovely, customised Colt Buntliner, the envy of gunslingers. Many people would have looked at the pistol, thought "I'd like that", then realised who wore it and thought again. If your characters are as good as their items, then people who want those items will fear them for their own abilities or position. The situation balances itself. This scenario:random evil guy of level 10 searching for minor magic items. He finds a group of 4 level 5 PCs with magical equipment. He goes there and kills them. works well if you balance the CR. He goes there and tries to kill them. If he succeeds is up to the PCs. random evil dragon heard of the players (lvl15) having powerful items. He as a great wyrm flys off and kills them, stealing their belongings of magical power. Where are the PCs if dragons drop out of the sky to kill them? How does the dragon know where they are? What do they have that a Great Wyrm wants badly enough to go out of its way and abandon its own hoard? random evil local lord poisons the PCs in their sleep, sends a dozen assasings and orders all official police-like institutions to arrest and then kill the PCs. Because he wants the magical items, becuase they're magical. This is just Deus Ex Machina: they've got no chance. If you play the same scenario, but give the characters warning, then they've got an exciting chase out of the local lands and a powerful but distant villain to fight as they gain power. There is always someone bigger and better. It makes for a more interesting campaign if your PCs don't strut around like they're gods, just because they have powerful items and never meet anyone better than they are. Oh, and if you'd like an literary example of high-powered NPCs chasing PCs for overpowered magic items, there is always the Ring Wraiths chasing Frodo in Lord of the Rings.
Jürgen Hubert 05-18-06, 04:04 AM	Like I said, I don't approve of arbitrarily taking away the magic items of characters. Still, attempts to take away these items can be fun adventure material, as long as they involve more than a simple Pickpocked/Spot skill contest. So here is my idea how this could be played out: There is a well-known master thief who is reputed to be able to steal everything he sets his mind to. He always sends his "calling card" to his future victims - on it, he announces that he intends to steal a certain item within one week. And so far, he has always succeeded. Now let us assume that the PCs have a certain powerful magic item that they have used or carried around in public - in other words, it is common knowledge that they have it. Now this master thief sends his calling card to the PCs and announces his attention to steal it. What are the PCs going to do about it? Well, usually the party will go to extreme lengths to protect their property. Let them work out the security for this item - where they will store it, which party member will protect it at which time, which magical traps have been put around it, and so on. After all, they only have to protect it for one week. How had can that be? But then things start to go wrong. Situations arise in which using this item would be very useful, possibly even vital - but then they have to take it away from their storage and into places where the thief could steal it! Then various PCs suddenly get invitations and summons from various Very Important People, or they suddenly have other pressing reasons to go somewhere else - but if they do so, who will guard their magic item? Or perhaps the local city guard receives a tip about something illegal in the dwelling of the PCs - but is one of the guards raiding the building the master thief in disguise? The whole thing should be a battle of wits between the artistry and conmanship of the master thief and the paranoia and ingenuity of the players. Even when the master thief does steal the item, they should have the feeling that they were beaten by the best and only plot revenge against the thief, and not the DM. And if the thief doesn't succeed, then his ego will cause him to seek to defeat the PCs in some other way. In other words, this could be the beginning of a beautiful enemity...
yrogerg 05-18-06, 10:18 AM	The problem is, Batman is just another case of 'Arrow through the neck', or 'rocks fall, everyone dies'. Yes, as DM you have final control over the setting and can use heavy-handed methods to 'fix' problems with the game, but it's a lot better to use a light touch. For example, if I thought a game was getting boring because the players had weapons that were too powerful... I'd have them get arrested. Or captured. Or something. And their weapons would get 'confiscated' by the town watch or enemy faction, and would quickly make their way to the nearest market and sold to the highest bidder, never to be seen again (or very much later, in the hands of the BBEG). Same effect, but you've added a variety of plot hooks, including a nice prison-break scenario. I've never had call to say this before, but that's way cooler than Batman.
Thrincold 05-18-06, 10:43 AM	My question for the OP is this: Does this DM have to regularly have to use "batman" to power you down after the previous DM. If that is the case, maybe the problem is between them, or with the other DM playing out his munchkin fantasies while he is in charge, hoping to have a ton of neat stuff when the other guy takes over. Talk to your DM about why he does this, and if you don't like the method, how he does this. With the little info presented we could bash this guy till the world ends, but he may have his reasons, even if his methods are suspect.