Battlefist's and two weapon fighting. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battlefist's and two weapon fighting. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lognor
07-20-06, 11:34 AM I was wondering.... if a warforged were to weild 2 Battlefists and already had the two weapon fighting feat could he treat both battlefists as light weapons and make 2 normal attacks at 1d8 +1...? or do they have to be single slam attacks..? (since they have the Second slam feat Im thinking this is true...)
DragonWatcher
07-20-06, 12:17 PM Since Battlefists simply augment the damage from slam attacks, and slam attacks are not affected by TWF, I would say that wearing two battlefists would not qualify for a TWF second attack. The character would need Second Slam.

However, remember that a slam can be made as an off-hand attack, so TWF could allow you to use the battlefist-slam along with another weapon.
Lognor
07-20-06, 01:33 PM Thanks.... I thought that might be the case... and in such a case of using the slam as a second attack the penalty of the slam would be the same as a light weapon in the offhand... correct..?
Tyryt
07-20-06, 04:07 PM This is one of those things I've always been confused about. While it is a natural attack, a WF unarmed attack is also supposed to be considered a manufactured weapon, which should mean that they get the full number of attacks from BAB, etc.

That being said... keep in mind that *any* item/magic item can be made as an attached or embedded WF component, and if you are crafting them yourself, they don't neccisarily have to have the same effects, so you could have a longsword attached that takes up the space of a gauntlet, but still allows you to use your hand for other things, as the blade is attached to the back of the hand, for example.
Lognor
07-20-06, 11:45 PM Thanks Tyryt.. That gives me something more to think about... :) Nothing wrong with attached weapons... though... wouldnt something like that incur a Dexterity penalty..? since it would in some ways encumber movement..?

Lots to think about. Sucks being a newbie. XD
Vegepygmy
07-22-06, 01:43 AM This is one of those things I've always been confused about. While it is a natural attack, a WF unarmed attack is also supposed to be considered a manufactured weapon, which should mean that they get the full number of attacks from BAB, etc.Your confusion stems from equating a WF's unarmed strike with its natural slam attack. They are not the same.

For example, a full-attacking WF Ftr11 (BAB +11) could make three unarmed strike attacks, each provoking an attack of opportunity and dealing 1d3 points of nonlethal damage if successful, and a single slam attack as a secondary natural attack (which would not provoke an AoO and would deal 1d4 points of lethal damage if successful) at -5 on his attack roll.
Edymnion
07-22-06, 12:39 PM No, Battlefists only improve base damage, they do not count as weapons in their own right, so you can't TWF with them.

However, the point is rather moot, as RoE has the Second Slam feat which gives you a second slam attack per round exactly as if you had gotten it from high BAB, which makes it better than TWF.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lognor 07-20-06, 11:34 AM	I was wondering.... if a warforged were to weild 2 Battlefists and already had the two weapon fighting feat could he treat both battlefists as light weapons and make 2 normal attacks at 1d8 +1...? or do they have to be single slam attacks..? (since they have the Second slam feat Im thinking this is true...)
DragonWatcher 07-20-06, 12:17 PM	Since Battlefists simply augment the damage from slam attacks, and slam attacks are not affected by TWF, I would say that wearing two battlefists would not qualify for a TWF second attack. The character would need Second Slam. However, remember that a slam can be made as an off-hand attack, so TWF could allow you to use the battlefist-slam along with another weapon.
Lognor 07-20-06, 01:33 PM	Thanks.... I thought that might be the case... and in such a case of using the slam as a second attack the penalty of the slam would be the same as a light weapon in the offhand... correct..?
Tyryt 07-20-06, 04:07 PM	This is one of those things I've always been confused about. While it is a natural attack, a WF unarmed attack is also supposed to be considered a manufactured weapon, which should mean that they get the full number of attacks from BAB, etc. That being said... keep in mind that any item/magic item can be made as an attached or embedded WF component, and if you are crafting them yourself, they don't neccisarily have to have the same effects, so you could have a longsword attached that takes up the space of a gauntlet, but still allows you to use your hand for other things, as the blade is attached to the back of the hand, for example.
Lognor 07-20-06, 11:45 PM	Thanks Tyryt.. That gives me something more to think about... :) Nothing wrong with attached weapons... though... wouldnt something like that incur a Dexterity penalty..? since it would in some ways encumber movement..? Lots to think about. Sucks being a newbie. XD
Vegepygmy 07-22-06, 01:43 AM	This is one of those things I've always been confused about. While it is a natural attack, a WF unarmed attack is also supposed to be considered a manufactured weapon, which should mean that they get the full number of attacks from BAB, etc.Your confusion stems from equating a WF's unarmed strike with its natural slam attack. They are not the same. For example, a full-attacking WF Ftr11 (BAB +11) could make three unarmed strike attacks, each provoking an attack of opportunity and dealing 1d3 points of nonlethal damage if successful, and a single slam attack as a secondary natural attack (which would not provoke an AoO and would deal 1d4 points of lethal damage if successful) at -5 on his attack roll.
Edymnion 07-22-06, 12:39 PM	No, Battlefists only improve base damage, they do not count as weapons in their own right, so you can't TWF with them. However, the point is rather moot, as RoE has the Second Slam feat which gives you a second slam attack per round exactly as if you had gotten it from high BAB, which makes it better than TWF.