Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Double M 01-26-05, 12:49 AM	Hey All, My GM is allowing 2 flaws for our upcoming Eberron Campaign and I want to maximize the feat potential. He is also allowing a trait as well. I need your help on the best flaws and trait for an artificer who will ultimately become a dual wand wielding blaster (Cannith wand adept--not feat-tree based). I'm currently thinking of Murky-eyed: Roll twice on miss chance for concealment; Inattentive: -4 on spot and listen checks; and Illiterate as my trait (it grants +1 to any skill [UMD obviously]) and I can then spend 2 first level skill points to become literate. This way I don't get hurt as much by not taking magical aptitude or skill focus at early levels. What do you think? Any better options. BTW my stats look like this...probably: 10 12 14 16 14 15 Thanks
Somebloke 01-26-05, 12:59 AM	....or you could pick traits on how you want to play the character, instead of min-maxing. That would be good too.
Save-vs-DM 01-26-05, 01:35 AM	I'd suggest heading on over to the character op boards...those guys live and breath stuff like these...most of us on the Eberron boards are much better for telling you "why" He has these flaws or stuff like that. Cheers, Save vs DM
Double M 01-26-05, 12:53 PM	My apologies... I forgot that the more-holy-than-thou purists would rather be sarcastic than helpful!!!
m15a 01-26-05, 01:33 PM	i don't think the character optimization board will necessarily be so helpful, either. as far as power is concerned, it's just too easy to have no penalty with flaws. the rule just relies on players and DMs to use them in a fair manner and for having a roleplaying reason to back them up. murky-eyed and inattentive seem like a good match with each other, and could probably work well in an artificer (or any other type of character, really). from an optimization stand-point, yeah, well, the illiterate one is an obvious trait, since you can cancel the penalty so easily. innattentive is good if you have a reliable and close scout in the group. although spot and listen are important to everybody to some extent. rolling twice on concealment obviously works well if you never make any attack rolls, or have a back-up to attacking if someone has concealment. but that will probably barely hurt you. well, that's that.
Ksaturn 01-31-05, 05:40 PM	I once ran a human artificier with the innattentive flaw, giving him three feats.... all of them used to reduce item cost by 25% each... Allowing him 8 attemps for each item he makes at market price(at a roughly 50% sucsess rate)... but i roleplayed him well. he jumped anytime his name was mentioned and often wasted several combat turns trying to figure out what was going on... He also didn't mind spending days in the workshop while the other galiivanted about... what do you think?
Edymnion 01-31-05, 05:58 PM	My apologies... I forgot that the more-holy-than-thou purists would rather be sarcastic than helpful!!!You know, nevermind. If thats the attitude you're going to have, I have no reason to help you. For future referance, you draw more flies with honey, so try being nice to people and they are going to be more likely to give you what you want. As is, that statement alone probably just made half the people that would want to help you turn around and leave out of spite, and thats not good. I mean, you ask a question, you get the correct answer that if you want to squeeze every last drop of power you can out of the build, with no reguards to actually building a roleplaying character, then you will find more help on the Character Optimization boards. They are the experts on this sort of thing, and are far better at it than we are. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it any less valid.
Gurv 01-31-05, 06:47 PM	Well, I am inclined to agree with Edymnion. But then again, I've been fustrated many times when someone asked a question and all they could get for an answer was "I don't like that idea, so you can't do it". I can see why one might get fustrated. Some people just can't accept that people enjoy different things *cough*AntiGenesis*cough*, so I am going to offer some input. For the record, I don't use, nor do I like, the Trait/Flaw rules. Save-vs-DM posted some Traits and Flaws specifically created for Eberron. Maybe you could see if any of those fit your concept and see if the DM will allow them. Butterfingers You have a difficult time holding onto objects. Effect: Whenever you roll a natural 1 on any attack roll or skill check involving tools, you automatically drop that weapon or tool. For skill checks you are treated as if you had failed by more than 5, even if you would normally succeed. Dark Fate You are doomed to a final death. Effect: You may not be brought back by spells such as Raise Dead or Reincarnate. Flashbacks You suffer horrible flashbacks from the Last War Effect: You suffer a -2 penalty on all skill checks due to your constant flashbacks. Gender Locked Your shapechanging abilities are worse than others. Effect: When using minor shape change you can only take the form of a creature the same gender as you. Special: You must be a changeling to take this flaw. House Pariah You are an outcast in your house Effect: You may never possess the Favored in House feat. Your house actively dislikes you and wishes you ill-luck or harm. You suffer a -5 penalty on all charisma based rolls when dealing with members of your house. Should you ever manifest a dragonmark you will probably be marked for death. Special: You must be a member of a dragonmarked race to take this flaw. Choose your house affiliation when taking this flaw. Jinxed You have horrible luck. Effect: Once per day the DM can force you to reroll a successful roll you have just made. You must take the reroll, whether it results in a success or a failure. Lunacy You are bound to the moon more strongly than other shifters Effect: You may only shift when you can see natural moonlight. Special: You must be a shifter to take this flaw. Mark of Slavery You are an escaped slave from one of the nations that still views warforged as property. Effect: You have the mark of your owner or nation in a prominent place on your body (such as your forehead). Your previous owners still view you as property and will enslave you again if you learn of your location. Special: You must be a warforged to take this flaw. Scent of the Predator You exude the scent of a powerful predator, provoking fear from others. Effect: Animals always start with an attitude of hostile towards you. Other creatures always start with an attitude of one worse than normal. Special: You must be a shifter to take this flaw. Shoddy Construction You were more poorly constructed than other warforged. Effect: You do not gain the benefit of Composite Plating (including arcane spell failure) or Light Fortification. You may not take the Adamantine Body or Mithral Body feats. Special: You must be a warforged to take this flaw. Tenuous Connection Your connection to your Quori spirit is weaker than usual. Effect: You do not gain on bonus power point at each level. Your mindlink psi-like ability is always considered to have a manifister level of one. Special: You must be a kalashtar to take this flaw. Unlucky You have poorer luck than other folks. Effect: You only roll 1d4 when using an action point instead of rolling 1d6. War Criminal You are wanted for crimes committed during the last war. Effect: All guards and figures of authority in your region of service start with an attitude of hostile towards you if you are not heavily disguised. Should they capture you, you will be imprisoned or killed. Special: Changelings may not possess this flaw. Or you could just follow the links in his sig above. He's got lots of cool ideas you can stea...I mean, use in your game while giving him full credit... :shifty:
Double M 02-01-05, 10:23 AM	Gurv, I appreciate your comment, as it fits with the point of my reply. I intentionally used sarcasm while referring to the sarcasm of Somebloke as an ironic device of rhetorical criticism. His post: "....or you could pick traits on how you want to play the character, instead of min-maxing. That would be good too" suggested that he has the right answer and that my goal is somehow less valid; moreover his "advice" was presented using what I viewed to be a sarcastic tone and I responded in kind to emphasize the absurdity of his reply. My reply was not meant to refer to Save-vs-DM's helpful post about the optimization board and I hope that no offense was taken. Perhaps I should have prefaced my post more specifically as a response to Somebloke's statement. If one doesn't agree with what is in a post or one thinks that I'm an idiot for asking what I asked, then why bother putting anything at all in a reply... unless, of course, one's goal is to prove how cool or right they are, or to teach me a valuable life lesson, ala Father Knows Best. In any event, I appreciate the helpful advice I received from some of the posters in this thread and the reminder that I can catch more flies with honey...though I still do not feel that Somebloke's reply was dripping with any Grade A Orange Blossom either. Give peace a chance! ;)
the shaderaven 02-01-05, 12:09 PM	While I won't give you any definite advice on what flaws to take, I'll actually try to be helpful. Illiterate (with a corresponding bonus to UMD check) is more that fitting for an artificier. And in case you need roleplaying justification for it (wich you should) - orphaned as a child and not receiving any propper edducation, but showing great knack with magic devices and thus being invited by some artificier to become his aprentice is a good way to do it. If the caipaign starts at first level I would also advice you paying only one of the skill points to become literate at first level (so you will be able to find your way into different scematics and manuals, but not much else) and roleplaying fully gaining your ability to read at second level when you pay the second point. It would be more fun this way, won't really hurt your character pottential and any DM who is worth his salt will appreciate it. For the flaws part I advice you to be really careful. Flaws don't make more powerful characters - they make a character with a weakness that may (and probably will) be exploited by the DM. Inattentive is especially dangerous unless you plan on burning some skill points to cover that weakness. With a Wis of 8, -4 penalty on spot and listen and no ranks into this scills you will are just begging to be abused any time when you move even half a step away from the party. Belive me - with a spot modifier of -5, sneaking rouges will be the last of your worries. Murky-eyed is much safer flaw, but considering that your main power will probably be a wand of scourching ray... you shoud really think it over. An artificier with no flaws dual-wielding two wands of scourching ray is deadly. Would you be able to do the same with a wands of flame strike every time someone pulls out a blur spell or simply moves into the shadow? As a whole I think that if you can pull of the build you have in mind with a single flaw - you should consider doing it. My advice is to take flaws only to take feats that are a MUST have for you, because if you trade a flaw for a simply handy feat, then probably you will lose more than you will gain. Btw, Vulnerable, may be a fine choise for an artificer actually. -1 AC is bad, but it is simply a hindrance that don't really have the potential to become fatal. As an artificier you will stay out of the fray - much like a wizard will, but unlike the wizard you will have more staying power. And in high levels, this one AC will not even matter - charging things will hit you anyway, due to their high attack bonus (and you deffence against them will be miss chance, not AC), and you should give anyone the chance to make a full attack on you.