Bicycles in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bicycles in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Always-Late
08-04-06, 12:19 AM Does Eberron have bicycles? By Eberron, I mean, "Your Eberron," or "Keith Baker's Eberron," since I know that I may get, "If I want there to be."

And if they don't, are bicycles compatible with your Eberron? Perfectly ordinary everyday bicycles.

And on non-ordinary bicycles: I was thinking for a moment about how great a squad of Adamantine Warforged on giant spiked armored bicycles, riding across a battlefield would be. The preferred method of dismount would be to ride the bike through enemy lines, impaling as many people as you could, until you ran into something and flipped over, which throws you off the bike (but DR 3 should help you with that) and makes whatever you flipped the bike over thoroughly dead.
Balseraph
08-04-06, 12:38 AM Hmmm... in my Eberron? No.

In a world with a city towering into the sky, with the lightning rail and skycoaches... bicycles just seem too mundane.

Besides, I personally prefer the mental image of hundreds of adamantine-plated warforged marching in perfect match-step across a battlefield, their enormous mass shaking the ground as they prove inevitability in a visceral manner ;)
Splendide
08-04-06, 12:46 AM I haven't given it much thought. You're only one bound Air Elemental away from turning a bicycle into a motorbike though.
orikes
08-04-06, 02:00 AM The bicycle is a relatively modern invention. It's really only about 140 years old at the most. A quick google search has most sites putting it around 1860. (http://www.pedalinghistory.com/PHhistory.html)

In addition to that, the wheels on the original bicycles were not very rugged, so they were designed for gentle city riding where roads were mostly flat and even (relatively speaking). The technology needed to make good off-road tires for mountain bikes and other hard core racing bikes are even more modern than that.
MadLetter
08-04-06, 03:52 AM Could you produce a kind of "hoverbike" by binding a small air elemental to a "proto-bike" without wheels? Maybe some kind of "personal transport" for "far too rich" people? Sounds funny somehow...
Nived
08-04-06, 03:57 AM I could see a gnome riding one... but it'd be a novelty... and a butt busting ride... Non-rubber, non-inflated tires would be a heck of a rough ride.
Splendide
08-04-06, 05:18 AM Darkwood frame. Thick wheels, probably 2 or 3 inches.

In place of tires, you'd have outers made of some ****** soft wood or other compound that you can replace frequently when it gets too compressed or tears - maybe tightly bound rags. These clamp onto the solid darkwood wheel inners.

As far as making the actual wheel-surface a bit more gripping, you'd get an alchemist to make a slower-drying version of the goop you'd put in a tanglefoot bag, which you'd ideally apply to the wheel outer before every journey (and carry with you for additional application on longer journeys).

The chain and cog, while reasonably advanced, is certainly not beyond craftsmen such as believe to be present in Eberron. If they were making a prototype, you'd go mithril for durability and weight.

Definitely only for novelty though. If you made a decent bike, Vadalis would probably try to take you down as aggressively as if you'd invented the electric car.
DoveArrow
08-05-06, 11:25 AM Captain Syrix stood at the head of the 65th Battalion of the Brelish Army, watching as a lone figure on horseback rode with fury across the battlefield towards him. In the distance, the Howling Peaks loomed ominously.

"Report," Captain Syrix said as the rider approached.

"A small batallion of gnomes from Zilargo, sir," the rider shouted, dismounting, "maybe 500."

Captain Syrix scoffed. "They are no match for us."

"But sir..."

Just then, a horn sounded across the plain. From the Howling Peaks, a cloud of dust rose.

"Let them come," Captain Syrix said smugly.

"But sir, as I was trying to say, they have..." the man paused, reached into his pack, and pulled out a spyglass.

Captain Syrix took the spyglass from the rider and leveled it on the mountains.

"Mountain bikes!" Captain Syrix cried. "They look like they're made by Huffy too! Curse those gnomes!" Turning to his commander, Captain Syrix said, "Gather the men together. We will head back to Sharn. No army can match wits with gnomes on bicycles."
yrogerg
08-05-06, 12:28 PM Captain Syrix stood at the head of the 65th Battalion of the Brelish Army, watching as a lone figure on horseback rode with fury across the battlefield towards him. In the distance, the Howling Peaks loomed ominously.

"Report," Captain Syrix said as the rider approached.

"A small batallion of gnomes from Zilargo, sir," the rider shouted, dismounting, "maybe 500."

Captain Syrix scoffed. "They are no match for us."

"But sir..."

Just then, a horn sounded across the plain. From the Howling Peaks, a cloud of dust rose.

"Let them come," Captain Syrix said smugly.

"But sir, as I was trying to say, they have..." the man paused, reached into his pack, and pulled out a spyglass.

Captain Syrix took the spyglass from the rider and leveled it on the mountains.

"Mountain bikes!" Captain Syrix cried. "They look like they're made by Huffy too! Curse those gnomes!" Turning to his commander, Captain Syrix said, "Gather the men together. We will head back to Sharn. No army can match wits with gnomes on bicycles."

Mountain bikes or "dirt bikes", are unique in that they employ bound Earth Elementals, by means of an elemental binding process that simultaneously reduces the weight of the bound elemental. This revolutionary process was pioneered by the elemental binder Taelmis Huffy, of Korranberg, and allows the heavy earth elemental to be bound to an otherwise prohibitively-thin frame. The kyber shard is stored in the frame of the bike itself, resulting in a heavier construction than normal bicycles which, by contrast, use Air elementals bound to thin shards that are placed in the spokes, where they make a pleasant 'rattling' sound as the bicycle moves.
Edymnion
08-05-06, 12:35 PM In my games, no, its too mechanically complex. And IMO, if its a question between "Did they figure out how to make a chain drive mechanism with ratio gearing and the ability to rotate a forwards facing wheel on the fly", in a setting where the most advanced use of the wheel seems to be on a fixed axle on wagons, or somebody just using a bit of magic to make a rug or disk fly or move across the ground, I would say that they would look for the magical answer first.

Its not that they would be incapable of doing so, but that the mindset of Eberron is that complex problems are better solved using magic than complicated physics. Its not quite Xanth level magical thinking, but fairly close.
ArcTan
08-05-06, 12:40 PM Please.

Eberron needs bicycles like fish need subraces.
yrogerg
08-05-06, 12:47 PM Please.

Eberron needs bicycles like fish need subraces.

Fish have subraces, though, IRL.

And so do Sahuagin, in D&D

Point taken, though :P
Darth Syntax
08-05-06, 05:12 PM Conserning gear ratios: this sort of thing is not terribly advanced, considering that water-mills (both the grain and wood sorts) have been using versions of gear systems for some time. Also, it is well documented that the Hellenized egyptians and the greeks of the same era knew quite a lot about gears and how to make them work (the antikythera mechanism being an extreme example of this). So gear work is not a 'modern' concept. the innovation of the bicycle had nothing to do with 'hey, gear ratios, wow!' and more to do with 'hrm, what if I put some wheels on a framework and then added these gears so a person could move this by themselves . . .' Sure the first bicycles were more contraption than tools, but they worked.

On rubber: Clearly rubber would come from a climate conducive to the growing of the rubber plant (southern Khorvaire, Aerenal, Xen'Drik and so on) and I would not at all be surprised if the locals (whoever they might be) would have been using the sap (latex) for quite some time. Rubber balls come to mind. The Aztecs had them, so assuming that rubber plants are available it's likely that rubber is used.

however, the pnuematic tire is probably a bit of a strech at the moment, but who knows? All it takes is someone with an idea, some rubber, and a few tools.

Finally, the bicycle makes a great deal of sense in the more densly populated and urbanized nations. Breland and Karrnath for example are constantly refered to as being 'industrial' (which dosent mean steam power here, but look at the cogs, that is industrialization at its finest) and certianly have large populations. In a city with narrow streets, lots of people, and the like, use of a bicycle might make more sense. For one, you don't have to feed a bike, so there is very little on-going cost. This would make it popular among those with some disposable income, but not the kind of cash to shell out for a horse (which also has to be fed, stabled, mucked, shoed, and the gods know what else). They're probably still seen as ecentric by some people, but i would imagine they might catch on.

So yes, simple bicycles (like the mid 19th century ones without the shifters by not the giant wheel things) exist in my version of the world, but they have very little military aplication.
kelvinaw273
08-05-06, 07:53 PM Does Eberron have bicycles? By Eberron, I mean, "Your Eberron," or "Keith Baker's Eberron," since I know that I may get, "If I want there to be."

And if they don't, are bicycles compatible with your Eberron? Perfectly ordinary everyday bicycles.

And on non-ordinary bicycles: I was thinking for a moment about how great a squad of Adamantine Warforged on giant spiked armored bicycles, riding across a battlefield would be. The preferred method of dismount would be to ride the bike through enemy lines, impaling as many people as you could, until you ran into something and flipped over, which throws you off the bike (but DR 3 should help you with that) and makes whatever you flipped the bike over thoroughly dead.

No .... because Eberron has no vulcanised rubber!

Bicycles themselves only became very popular after the developement of the pneumatic tyre to cushion the bumps of a cobbled street, otherwise the majority of the energy expended by the rider gets disspaed going up and down on the bumps, rather than in propelling the bike forwards.

As most roads and streets are actually very bumpy (even if they are not cobbled) bicycles may get invented, but will not be common. While latex may be imported from Xen'drik, latex alone is not a very useful substance as it weathers badly. Vulcanising it (adding sulpher under heat) gives it strength, toughness and durability - but this was only discovered after years of research.
Edymnion
08-05-06, 07:53 PM Conserning gear ratios: this sort of thing is not terribly advanced, considering that water-mills (both the grain and wood sorts) have been using versions of gear systems for some time. Also, it is well documented that the Hellenized egyptians and the greeks of the same era knew quite a lot about gears and how to make them work (the antikythera mechanism being an extreme example of this). So gear work is not a 'modern' concept. the innovation of the bicycle had nothing to do with 'hey, gear ratios, wow!' and more to do with 'hrm, what if I put some wheels on a framework and then added these gears so a person could move this by themselves . . .' Sure the first bicycles were more contraption than tools, but they worked.The gears were there, yes, but the main mechanism of a bicycle would not be. A small chain drive. The romans had some small ballistas that used a form of a chain drive to wrench the cord back, but they were large and blocky.

The tech to make a bicycle chain fine enough to be of any use just wouldn't be there without some heavy magical involvement (to the point that if you could cast the creation spells to make a working bicycle chain, you could also cast the spells needed to make a purely magical transport device).
DoveArrow
08-06-06, 11:57 AM The gears were there, yes, but the main mechanism of a bicycle would not be. A small chain drive.

One of the earliest forms of bicycles was the velocipede (http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/gsdeveyx.jpg), which didn't have have a chain. Meanwhile the earliest models didn't even have rubber tires; they were just iron rims. Since we know that eberron has iron to make steel, I don't see why they couldn't at least have some aristocrats riding around on velocipedes.
DoveArrow
08-06-06, 12:02 PM Incidentally, I think it's absolutely hilarious that we're all seriously arguing about whether or not there are bicycles in Eberron.
:heehee
Applecrow
08-06-06, 12:13 PM I do have an artificer whose goal is to open a custom elemental bike shop in Sharn. Think Harley's powered by earth or fire elementals and air elemental hover bikes. he's only 6th level though so it's a little way off...

bike chains too complex!?! a jeweler would have little problem making such a chain. finding one to do it cheaply is your problem. Magic would certainly be easier. Isn't there a magic item that fabricates items out of a drawing? Artificers would have to be dedicated to finishing the project but it is certainly possible.

of course, elemental bikes wouldn't need such an apparatus.

VRRROOOM! :rolleyes: okay that was cheesy

But Warforged Lancers on elemental Bikes would be awesome in the original meaning of the word.

I think i have a new favorite mini i want to see in the next set...
Raziel_Brokodar
08-06-06, 01:32 PM lol!!

Quite an original question... in my Eberron? No...

...let's just leave it at that...
Edymnion
08-06-06, 01:55 PM I don't see why they couldn't at least have some aristocrats riding around on velocipedes.:rofl:
Okay, if you think you can get your players to EVER take ANYBODY riding a velocipede seriously, all the more power to you. :D
igotsmeakabob!!
08-06-06, 02:43 PM Alright.... I doin' OK, then I hit the dove's 'Noone can face Gnomes on bikes" post, then I hit yrogerg's description of the history... and then I hit Raziel's velocipede suggestion.... I can't take it, I'm laughing hard.
Edymnion
08-06-06, 04:44 PM Alright.... I doin' OK, then I hit the dove's 'Noone can face Gnomes on bikes" post, then I hit yrogerg's description of the history... and then I hit Raziel's velocipede suggestion.... I can't take it, I'm laughing hard.Gnomes on velocipedes, the only way you can look a gnome in the eye, because on top of that thing, he's already at eye level!
:rofl:

I'm sorry, I've just got this image of a tense staredown between a gnome and a heavily armored human, little lightning bolts shooting back and forth between their eyes, then zoom out and the gnome is sitting on a velocipede.
zambuka
08-07-06, 01:29 AM The gears were there, yes, but the main mechanism of a bicycle would not be. A small chain drive. The romans had some small ballistas that used a form of a chain drive to wrench the cord back, but they were large and blocky.

The tech to make a bicycle chain fine enough to be of any use just wouldn't be there without some heavy magical involvement (to the point that if you could cast the creation spells to make a working bicycle chain, you could also cast the spells needed to make a purely magical transport device).

Chain drives are nothing new, the are pretty much as old as chains and gears. They just weren't used very often because of the difficulty in manufacturing and the poor quality of materials used to make the chains.

All the components and technology for a bicycle is there in Eberron. However, like Edy has stated it does require some hefty magic to pull those materials together with sufficiently tight tolerances to create a lightweight and strong chain.

Because magic (and all the exotic beasts of burden) creates more reliable transport devices the bicycle would be little more than a toy for the idle rich and the eccentric (picture the bike from Wild Wild West for an example). I can just imagine bored rich hiers hurtling down some of the steeper paths and byways of sharn.

Bicycles would be there, in almost anyone's Eberron, they would just more likely be the tinkerings of madmen.
Splendide
08-07-06, 01:58 AM Or just as likely the plaything of nobles. Like people who take classic cars and try to drive them across central asia, or similar stunts. Doing it because its useless but noticeable and romantic.

Guarding a young noble trying to ride a velocipede from Passage to Korranberg would be an amusing adventure for a low-level group of PCs really.
poisondusk
08-07-06, 07:25 AM Eberron has hoverboards (skysleds). Why would anyone want a wheeled device you needed to propel yourself with.

Seriously, if you want them to exist, they could. I'd be tempted to make some form of hovercycle in Sharn. Sure they have the hoverboards, but I like the idea of a streetbike chase through the towers.

Perhaps a small sized earthsled...one driver and space for one passenger or cargo.
zambuka
08-07-06, 10:39 PM Or just as likely the plaything of nobles. Like people who take classic cars and try to drive them across central asia, or similar stunts. Doing it because its useless but noticeable and romantic.

Guarding a young noble trying to ride a velocipede from Passage to Korranberg would be an amusing adventure for a low-level group of PCs really.

Now that's an idea to steal. :D
Amusing and dreadfully frustrating.
I can just imagine scenes like in the Simpson's episode where Homer tried to climb the mountain, where the Sherpas would drag him further up the mountain during the night. I can see the PCs getting frustrated and trying to do something similar.
JulesCARV
08-07-06, 11:26 PM Aren't skysleds rather expensive outside of the Syrania manifest zone in Sharn?
AntiSean
08-08-06, 11:03 AM No .... because Eberron has no vulcanised rubber!
But onatarized rubber, on the other hand...
DoveArrow
08-09-06, 07:06 PM But onatarized rubber, on the other hand...

:rimshot:
DoveArrow
08-09-06, 07:12 PM Aren't skysleds rather expensive outside of the Syrania manifest zone in Sharn?

As far as I know, skysleds don't work at all outside of the Syrania Manifest Zone.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Always-Late 08-04-06, 12:19 AM	Does Eberron have bicycles? By Eberron, I mean, "Your Eberron," or "Keith Baker's Eberron," since I know that I may get, "If I want there to be." And if they don't, are bicycles compatible with your Eberron? Perfectly ordinary everyday bicycles. And on non-ordinary bicycles: I was thinking for a moment about how great a squad of Adamantine Warforged on giant spiked armored bicycles, riding across a battlefield would be. The preferred method of dismount would be to ride the bike through enemy lines, impaling as many people as you could, until you ran into something and flipped over, which throws you off the bike (but DR 3 should help you with that) and makes whatever you flipped the bike over thoroughly dead.
Balseraph 08-04-06, 12:38 AM	Hmmm... in my Eberron? No. In a world with a city towering into the sky, with the lightning rail and skycoaches... bicycles just seem too mundane. Besides, I personally prefer the mental image of hundreds of adamantine-plated warforged marching in perfect match-step across a battlefield, their enormous mass shaking the ground as they prove inevitability in a visceral manner ;)
Splendide 08-04-06, 12:46 AM	I haven't given it much thought. You're only one bound Air Elemental away from turning a bicycle into a motorbike though.
orikes 08-04-06, 02:00 AM	The bicycle is a relatively modern invention. It's really only about 140 years old at the most. A quick google search has most sites putting it around 1860. (http://www.pedalinghistory.com/PHhistory.html) In addition to that, the wheels on the original bicycles were not very rugged, so they were designed for gentle city riding where roads were mostly flat and even (relatively speaking). The technology needed to make good off-road tires for mountain bikes and other hard core racing bikes are even more modern than that.
MadLetter 08-04-06, 03:52 AM	Could you produce a kind of "hoverbike" by binding a small air elemental to a "proto-bike" without wheels? Maybe some kind of "personal transport" for "far too rich" people? Sounds funny somehow...
Nived 08-04-06, 03:57 AM	I could see a gnome riding one... but it'd be a novelty... and a butt busting ride... Non-rubber, non-inflated tires would be a heck of a rough ride.
Splendide 08-04-06, 05:18 AM	Darkwood frame. Thick wheels, probably 2 or 3 inches. In place of tires, you'd have outers made of some ****** soft wood or other compound that you can replace frequently when it gets too compressed or tears - maybe tightly bound rags. These clamp onto the solid darkwood wheel inners. As far as making the actual wheel-surface a bit more gripping, you'd get an alchemist to make a slower-drying version of the goop you'd put in a tanglefoot bag, which you'd ideally apply to the wheel outer before every journey (and carry with you for additional application on longer journeys). The chain and cog, while reasonably advanced, is certainly not beyond craftsmen such as believe to be present in Eberron. If they were making a prototype, you'd go mithril for durability and weight. Definitely only for novelty though. If you made a decent bike, Vadalis would probably try to take you down as aggressively as if you'd invented the electric car.
DoveArrow 08-05-06, 11:25 AM	Captain Syrix stood at the head of the 65th Battalion of the Brelish Army, watching as a lone figure on horseback rode with fury across the battlefield towards him. In the distance, the Howling Peaks loomed ominously. "Report," Captain Syrix said as the rider approached. "A small batallion of gnomes from Zilargo, sir," the rider shouted, dismounting, "maybe 500." Captain Syrix scoffed. "They are no match for us." "But sir..." Just then, a horn sounded across the plain. From the Howling Peaks, a cloud of dust rose. "Let them come," Captain Syrix said smugly. "But sir, as I was trying to say, they have..." the man paused, reached into his pack, and pulled out a spyglass. Captain Syrix took the spyglass from the rider and leveled it on the mountains. "Mountain bikes!" Captain Syrix cried. "They look like they're made by Huffy too! Curse those gnomes!" Turning to his commander, Captain Syrix said, "Gather the men together. We will head back to Sharn. No army can match wits with gnomes on bicycles."
yrogerg 08-05-06, 12:28 PM	Captain Syrix stood at the head of the 65th Battalion of the Brelish Army, watching as a lone figure on horseback rode with fury across the battlefield towards him. In the distance, the Howling Peaks loomed ominously. "Report," Captain Syrix said as the rider approached. "A small batallion of gnomes from Zilargo, sir," the rider shouted, dismounting, "maybe 500." Captain Syrix scoffed. "They are no match for us." "But sir..." Just then, a horn sounded across the plain. From the Howling Peaks, a cloud of dust rose. "Let them come," Captain Syrix said smugly. "But sir, as I was trying to say, they have..." the man paused, reached into his pack, and pulled out a spyglass. Captain Syrix took the spyglass from the rider and leveled it on the mountains. "Mountain bikes!" Captain Syrix cried. "They look like they're made by Huffy too! Curse those gnomes!" Turning to his commander, Captain Syrix said, "Gather the men together. We will head back to Sharn. No army can match wits with gnomes on bicycles." Mountain bikes or "dirt bikes", are unique in that they employ bound Earth Elementals, by means of an elemental binding process that simultaneously reduces the weight of the bound elemental. This revolutionary process was pioneered by the elemental binder Taelmis Huffy, of Korranberg, and allows the heavy earth elemental to be bound to an otherwise prohibitively-thin frame. The kyber shard is stored in the frame of the bike itself, resulting in a heavier construction than normal bicycles which, by contrast, use Air elementals bound to thin shards that are placed in the spokes, where they make a pleasant 'rattling' sound as the bicycle moves.
Edymnion 08-05-06, 12:35 PM	In my games, no, its too mechanically complex. And IMO, if its a question between "Did they figure out how to make a chain drive mechanism with ratio gearing and the ability to rotate a forwards facing wheel on the fly", in a setting where the most advanced use of the wheel seems to be on a fixed axle on wagons, or somebody just using a bit of magic to make a rug or disk fly or move across the ground, I would say that they would look for the magical answer first. Its not that they would be incapable of doing so, but that the mindset of Eberron is that complex problems are better solved using magic than complicated physics. Its not quite Xanth level magical thinking, but fairly close.
ArcTan 08-05-06, 12:40 PM	Please. Eberron needs bicycles like fish need subraces.
yrogerg 08-05-06, 12:47 PM	Please. Eberron needs bicycles like fish need subraces. Fish have subraces, though, IRL. And so do Sahuagin, in D&D Point taken, though :P
Darth Syntax 08-05-06, 05:12 PM	Conserning gear ratios: this sort of thing is not terribly advanced, considering that water-mills (both the grain and wood sorts) have been using versions of gear systems for some time. Also, it is well documented that the Hellenized egyptians and the greeks of the same era knew quite a lot about gears and how to make them work (the antikythera mechanism being an extreme example of this). So gear work is not a 'modern' concept. the innovation of the bicycle had nothing to do with 'hey, gear ratios, wow!' and more to do with 'hrm, what if I put some wheels on a framework and then added these gears so a person could move this by themselves . . .' Sure the first bicycles were more contraption than tools, but they worked. On rubber: Clearly rubber would come from a climate conducive to the growing of the rubber plant (southern Khorvaire, Aerenal, Xen'Drik and so on) and I would not at all be surprised if the locals (whoever they might be) would have been using the sap (latex) for quite some time. Rubber balls come to mind. The Aztecs had them, so assuming that rubber plants are available it's likely that rubber is used. however, the pnuematic tire is probably a bit of a strech at the moment, but who knows? All it takes is someone with an idea, some rubber, and a few tools. Finally, the bicycle makes a great deal of sense in the more densly populated and urbanized nations. Breland and Karrnath for example are constantly refered to as being 'industrial' (which dosent mean steam power here, but look at the cogs, that is industrialization at its finest) and certianly have large populations. In a city with narrow streets, lots of people, and the like, use of a bicycle might make more sense. For one, you don't have to feed a bike, so there is very little on-going cost. This would make it popular among those with some disposable income, but not the kind of cash to shell out for a horse (which also has to be fed, stabled, mucked, shoed, and the gods know what else). They're probably still seen as ecentric by some people, but i would imagine they might catch on. So yes, simple bicycles (like the mid 19th century ones without the shifters by not the giant wheel things) exist in my version of the world, but they have very little military aplication.
kelvinaw273 08-05-06, 07:53 PM	Does Eberron have bicycles? By Eberron, I mean, "Your Eberron," or "Keith Baker's Eberron," since I know that I may get, "If I want there to be." And if they don't, are bicycles compatible with your Eberron? Perfectly ordinary everyday bicycles. And on non-ordinary bicycles: I was thinking for a moment about how great a squad of Adamantine Warforged on giant spiked armored bicycles, riding across a battlefield would be. The preferred method of dismount would be to ride the bike through enemy lines, impaling as many people as you could, until you ran into something and flipped over, which throws you off the bike (but DR 3 should help you with that) and makes whatever you flipped the bike over thoroughly dead. No .... because Eberron has no vulcanised rubber! Bicycles themselves only became very popular after the developement of the pneumatic tyre to cushion the bumps of a cobbled street, otherwise the majority of the energy expended by the rider gets disspaed going up and down on the bumps, rather than in propelling the bike forwards. As most roads and streets are actually very bumpy (even if they are not cobbled) bicycles may get invented, but will not be common. While latex may be imported from Xen'drik, latex alone is not a very useful substance as it weathers badly. Vulcanising it (adding sulpher under heat) gives it strength, toughness and durability - but this was only discovered after years of research.
Edymnion 08-05-06, 07:53 PM	Conserning gear ratios: this sort of thing is not terribly advanced, considering that water-mills (both the grain and wood sorts) have been using versions of gear systems for some time. Also, it is well documented that the Hellenized egyptians and the greeks of the same era knew quite a lot about gears and how to make them work (the antikythera mechanism being an extreme example of this). So gear work is not a 'modern' concept. the innovation of the bicycle had nothing to do with 'hey, gear ratios, wow!' and more to do with 'hrm, what if I put some wheels on a framework and then added these gears so a person could move this by themselves . . .' Sure the first bicycles were more contraption than tools, but they worked.The gears were there, yes, but the main mechanism of a bicycle would not be. A small chain drive. The romans had some small ballistas that used a form of a chain drive to wrench the cord back, but they were large and blocky. The tech to make a bicycle chain fine enough to be of any use just wouldn't be there without some heavy magical involvement (to the point that if you could cast the creation spells to make a working bicycle chain, you could also cast the spells needed to make a purely magical transport device).
DoveArrow 08-06-06, 11:57 AM	The gears were there, yes, but the main mechanism of a bicycle would not be. A small chain drive. One of the earliest forms of bicycles was the velocipede (http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/gsdeveyx.jpg), which didn't have have a chain. Meanwhile the earliest models didn't even have rubber tires; they were just iron rims. Since we know that eberron has iron to make steel, I don't see why they couldn't at least have some aristocrats riding around on velocipedes.
DoveArrow 08-06-06, 12:02 PM	Incidentally, I think it's absolutely hilarious that we're all seriously arguing about whether or not there are bicycles in Eberron. :heehee
Applecrow 08-06-06, 12:13 PM	I do have an artificer whose goal is to open a custom elemental bike shop in Sharn. Think Harley's powered by earth or fire elementals and air elemental hover bikes. he's only 6th level though so it's a little way off... bike chains too complex!?! a jeweler would have little problem making such a chain. finding one to do it cheaply is your problem. Magic would certainly be easier. Isn't there a magic item that fabricates items out of a drawing? Artificers would have to be dedicated to finishing the project but it is certainly possible. of course, elemental bikes wouldn't need such an apparatus. VRRROOOM! :rolleyes: okay that was cheesy But Warforged Lancers on elemental Bikes would be awesome in the original meaning of the word. I think i have a new favorite mini i want to see in the next set...
Raziel_Brokodar 08-06-06, 01:32 PM	lol!! Quite an original question... in my Eberron? No... ...let's just leave it at that...
Edymnion 08-06-06, 01:55 PM	I don't see why they couldn't at least have some aristocrats riding around on velocipedes.:rofl: Okay, if you think you can get your players to EVER take ANYBODY riding a velocipede seriously, all the more power to you. :D
igotsmeakabob!! 08-06-06, 02:43 PM	Alright.... I doin' OK, then I hit the dove's 'Noone can face Gnomes on bikes" post, then I hit yrogerg's description of the history... and then I hit Raziel's velocipede suggestion.... I can't take it, I'm laughing hard.
Edymnion 08-06-06, 04:44 PM	Alright.... I doin' OK, then I hit the dove's 'Noone can face Gnomes on bikes" post, then I hit yrogerg's description of the history... and then I hit Raziel's velocipede suggestion.... I can't take it, I'm laughing hard.Gnomes on velocipedes, the only way you can look a gnome in the eye, because on top of that thing, he's already at eye level! :rofl: I'm sorry, I've just got this image of a tense staredown between a gnome and a heavily armored human, little lightning bolts shooting back and forth between their eyes, then zoom out and the gnome is sitting on a velocipede.
zambuka 08-07-06, 01:29 AM	The gears were there, yes, but the main mechanism of a bicycle would not be. A small chain drive. The romans had some small ballistas that used a form of a chain drive to wrench the cord back, but they were large and blocky. The tech to make a bicycle chain fine enough to be of any use just wouldn't be there without some heavy magical involvement (to the point that if you could cast the creation spells to make a working bicycle chain, you could also cast the spells needed to make a purely magical transport device). Chain drives are nothing new, the are pretty much as old as chains and gears. They just weren't used very often because of the difficulty in manufacturing and the poor quality of materials used to make the chains. All the components and technology for a bicycle is there in Eberron. However, like Edy has stated it does require some hefty magic to pull those materials together with sufficiently tight tolerances to create a lightweight and strong chain. Because magic (and all the exotic beasts of burden) creates more reliable transport devices the bicycle would be little more than a toy for the idle rich and the eccentric (picture the bike from Wild Wild West for an example). I can just imagine bored rich hiers hurtling down some of the steeper paths and byways of sharn. Bicycles would be there, in almost anyone's Eberron, they would just more likely be the tinkerings of madmen.
Splendide 08-07-06, 01:58 AM	Or just as likely the plaything of nobles. Like people who take classic cars and try to drive them across central asia, or similar stunts. Doing it because its useless but noticeable and romantic. Guarding a young noble trying to ride a velocipede from Passage to Korranberg would be an amusing adventure for a low-level group of PCs really.
poisondusk 08-07-06, 07:25 AM	Eberron has hoverboards (skysleds). Why would anyone want a wheeled device you needed to propel yourself with. Seriously, if you want them to exist, they could. I'd be tempted to make some form of hovercycle in Sharn. Sure they have the hoverboards, but I like the idea of a streetbike chase through the towers. Perhaps a small sized earthsled...one driver and space for one passenger or cargo.
zambuka 08-07-06, 10:39 PM	Or just as likely the plaything of nobles. Like people who take classic cars and try to drive them across central asia, or similar stunts. Doing it because its useless but noticeable and romantic. Guarding a young noble trying to ride a velocipede from Passage to Korranberg would be an amusing adventure for a low-level group of PCs really. Now that's an idea to steal. :D Amusing and dreadfully frustrating. I can just imagine scenes like in the Simpson's episode where Homer tried to climb the mountain, where the Sherpas would drag him further up the mountain during the night. I can see the PCs getting frustrated and trying to do something similar.
JulesCARV 08-07-06, 11:26 PM	Aren't skysleds rather expensive outside of the Syrania manifest zone in Sharn?
AntiSean 08-08-06, 11:03 AM	No .... because Eberron has no vulcanised rubber! But onatarized rubber, on the other hand...
DoveArrow 08-09-06, 07:06 PM	But onatarized rubber, on the other hand... :rimshot:
DoveArrow 08-09-06, 07:12 PM	Aren't skysleds rather expensive outside of the Syrania manifest zone in Sharn? As far as I know, skysleds don't work at all outside of the Syrania Manifest Zone.