Booking passage on a Lightning rail..from where? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Booking passage on a Lightning rail..from where? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DMDaddy
10-29-06, 01:06 PM How many stops does a lightning rail make on its route? Can an adventurer catch a ride by standing on the side of the route and waiting for the lightning rail to pass by?
Godu
10-29-06, 01:41 PM The way I have thought of it in the campaign I am running is that the lightning rail is somewhat like the early western (U.S.) railroads. It will stop at all of the major towns or villages that the track runs through (these are the ones on the map…) on a regular schedule. Additionally there are “optional” stops spread down the length of the track for a variety of purposes where the lightning rail will stop if the signal is given.

Optional stops can be in a small town or village or perhaps in the middle of nowhere as long as there is a reason. For example, in a large ranching region there may not be any large towns but there may be an optional stop where ranchers can load livestock onto a train a couple of times a year. Small villages may have an optional stop where they can load taxes and goods for sale in the larger cities a few times a year; along with the occasionally unsatisfied youth going forth in the world to seek their fortune.

I would not generally allow a character to stand somewhere randomly and flag the rail down but they would be able to take advantage of one of the optional stops. Alternatively, I have also allowed the characters to buy and bribe people so that the rail they are on will stop in the middle of nowhere and let them off, instead of at the nearest station. The characters could certainly “jump onboard” if they could move fast enough to catch up with the rail (fast horse or magic) but would then have to explain themselves to the House Deneith guards.

I also have express and local lightning rails (mainly as a way to frustrate the players). The express rails stop only at the major stops (large cities) and provide rapid transport across large distances and generally have more 1st class carts. Locals stop at all of the mapped stops (all towns and villages on the maps) and at the optional stops and generally have more of the 2nd class and cargo carts. The local is far less likely to be “on schedule” than the express due to the variety of stops and cargo it encounters.

This is just how I have envisioned it and it seems to work.
goblin_pride
10-29-06, 03:21 PM The lightning rail has all sorts of stops on the route, you just have to dig up a couple of the conductor stones and they stop pretty much right where you want them too. They're not really all that easy to get started again after that, but at least you'll have some company afterwards (not that they'll be all that friendly at that point).
DMDaddy
10-29-06, 04:32 PM Thanks, I was thinking along the same lines. I'm not sure if they will think to dig up the conductor stones, but they will most likely follow the tracks to a small town or outpost of sorts that may have a stop.

They think it will be as easy as just booking passage, but the town will no doubt have a few turns and twists. I'm think about a powerful thieves guild who takes the profits from the farmers and persuades all visitors to pay and leave.
Tyveil
10-30-06, 02:23 PM 5N lists all the stops for the lightning rails. Each location has a time and cost, so I don't see the rail making many if any unexpected stops.
ccerose
10-31-06, 10:58 AM You could possibly bribe an "engineer" or make a substantial gift contribution to House Lyrander to get them to make an unscheduled stop, I'm sure.
DMDaddy
10-31-06, 01:05 PM 5N may very well be the next book I get. I'm not sure how the players may try to stop the lightning rail. That will be a problem for them to solve. At least I know I was on the right track on elaborating from the ECS.
Thindelock
10-31-06, 01:33 PM You guys sure it was 5N that had that chart of rates, times, and stops? I remember seeing that chart in Explorer's Handbook (I just referenced it in last night's game). It may be printed in 5N as well and I missed it...

Either way, there's something odd I noticed about that chart. The distance from Sharn to Wroat listed on the chart isn't anywhere near right to scale with the maps of Breland, and it's not right compared with the ECS web enhancement map that includes the lightning rail and caravan distances. I forget the exact numbers, but it's a few hundred miles off, and unfortunately if you want your map-scale to remain close to consistent that means having to recalculate most of that blasted chart (since Sharn is the departure point assumed for each entry on the western run, and distances are cumulative from the Sharn-Wroat run).

I just tack on an extra half-day and call it close enough, personally. In my game, most lightning rail and similar trips tend to be riding the red line, Indiana Jones-style. Miles rarely matter, and tacking an extra half-day on that run is simple enough to do on the fly.
Tyveil
10-31-06, 02:18 PM You guys sure it was 5N that had that chart of rates, times, and stops? I remember seeing that chart in Explorer's Handbook (I just referenced it in last night's game). It may be printed in 5N as well and I missed it...

I don't have the Explorer's Handbook, it's in 5N. I don't have my books handy so can't elaborate much but I think any major city with a lightning rail station listed the times/costs to connecting cities. I think these are the capitals - ex. Wroat for Aundair (?)
ccerose
10-31-06, 06:36 PM Also, if you download the Khorvaire Map web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebwe/20041206a), it lists the number of miles between stops.

This new poster map also adds a new feature not found in the EberronCampaign Setting book: calculated distances between cities and major stops along all Orien trade routes and lightning rail routes. Now you can determine exact travel times, as well as get an easy perspective on distances between adventure sites.
goblin_pride
11-01-06, 03:45 AM Either way, there's something odd I noticed about that chart. The distance from Sharn to Wroat listed on the chart isn't anywhere near right to scale with the maps of Breland, and it's not right compared with the ECS web enhancement map that includes the lightning rail and caravan distances. I forget the exact numbers, but it's a few hundred miles off, and unfortunately if you want your map-scale to remain close to consistent that means having to recalculate most of that blasted chart (since Sharn is the departure point assumed for each entry on the western run, and distances are cumulative from the Sharn-Wroat run).

Is the chart laid out in mileage or as a cost/time format? Because if it's laid out as a cost/time format, most of the traffic from Sharn to Wroat may be a sort of "express" run. Without the extra stops along the redline it wouldn't take the extra half-day of travel time.
Edymnion
11-01-06, 09:15 AM The lightning rail has all sorts of stops on the route, you just have to dig up a couple of the conductor stones and they stop pretty much right where you want them too. They're not really all that easy to get started again after that, but at least you'll have some company afterwards (not that they'll be all that friendly at that point).You'll have lots of friendly company once you get to Dreadhold though. Especially the large hairy shifter guy named "Molly" that wants to be your "special friend" for the duration of your stay...:eek:
Thindelock
11-01-06, 10:31 AM Is the chart laid out in mileage or as a cost/time format?

The chart (Explorer's Handbook, p20) shows both mileage and time from Sharn, and from the most recent stop on the line, for each stop.

The chart lists the distance from Sharn to Wroat as 212 miles. The web-enhancement Khorvaire map has it marked as 417 miles for the same trip, almost twice as much. Looking at the maps and scales given in ECS and ExHB, as well as the web enhancement, I'd say 417 seems more accurate.

The difference is 205 miles. It'd take a rail about 6.75 hours (rounded to match the chart's quarter-hour accuracy) to cover the missing miles at 720miles/day (ExHB, p18)

So, add 6:45 to the Sharn-Wroat run if you insist on internal distance/time consistency. Unless I'm mistaken, that means adding 6:45 to every run's "time from Sharn" entry.

Normally I hate nitpicking details, but i've had players hassle me about distance inconsistencies before.
goblin_pride
11-01-06, 03:14 PM Normally I hate nitpicking details, but i've had players hassle me about distance inconsistencies before.

I used to not pay attention until that one DM way back when hit me and the rest of the group with one of those "you need to get there before X happens" adventures, after that timekeeping became important to me. Although nitpicking is always annoying.
Caine_Hazen
11-02-06, 05:21 PM Actually I came on here again looking for info on those discrepicies in those books. Overall it looks like the scale gets a bit hosed from book to book. Is there any general concensus on this that anyone knows of? ...or perhaps errata?
Edymnion
11-02-06, 07:09 PM Actually I came on here again looking for info on those discrepicies in those books. Overall it looks like the scale gets a bit hosed from book to book. Is there any general concensus on this that anyone knows of? ...or perhaps errata?Generally the problem comes from the fact that Khovaire got dramatically scaled up somewhere during production. Keith said he had intended it to be smaller than it is now (which explains why the population numbers seem so low), and somewhere along the line the scale got increased (either intentionally or accidentally), and thats what came out in the released books.

So yes, the scale changes from book to book because everybody was basically scrambling to figure out what the scale should actually be. The best options are to either stick with the original numbers in the ECS and extrapolate for missing ones, or use the latest book published with the numbers and just consider them correct. It gets kinda weird when you mix books and the distance between cities changes by an order of magnitude or two. ;)
lordalm
11-05-06, 10:18 AM Generally the problem comes from the fact that Khovaire got dramatically scaled up somewhere during production. Keith said he had intended it to be smaller than it is now (which explains why the population numbers seem so low), and somewhere along the line the scale got increased (either intentionally or accidentally), and thats what came out in the released books.

So yes, the scale changes from book to book because everybody was basically scrambling to figure out what the scale should actually be. The best options are to either stick with the original numbers in the ECS and extrapolate for missing ones, or use the latest book published with the numbers and just consider them correct. It gets kinda weird when you mix books and the distance between cities changes by an order of magnitude or two. ;)

That explains why it got easier to figure out how to charge my group for the use of the lightning rail. The ECS was terrible for that. The 5N and the Explorer's Handbook explained it much better but I missed any discrepency between the two. Not that I really remember the cost in the E'sH. But my memory is not that great, and I have/am reading so much D&D material...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMDaddy 10-29-06, 01:06 PM	How many stops does a lightning rail make on its route? Can an adventurer catch a ride by standing on the side of the route and waiting for the lightning rail to pass by?
Godu 10-29-06, 01:41 PM	The way I have thought of it in the campaign I am running is that the lightning rail is somewhat like the early western (U.S.) railroads. It will stop at all of the major towns or villages that the track runs through (these are the ones on the map…) on a regular schedule. Additionally there are “optional” stops spread down the length of the track for a variety of purposes where the lightning rail will stop if the signal is given. Optional stops can be in a small town or village or perhaps in the middle of nowhere as long as there is a reason. For example, in a large ranching region there may not be any large towns but there may be an optional stop where ranchers can load livestock onto a train a couple of times a year. Small villages may have an optional stop where they can load taxes and goods for sale in the larger cities a few times a year; along with the occasionally unsatisfied youth going forth in the world to seek their fortune. I would not generally allow a character to stand somewhere randomly and flag the rail down but they would be able to take advantage of one of the optional stops. Alternatively, I have also allowed the characters to buy and bribe people so that the rail they are on will stop in the middle of nowhere and let them off, instead of at the nearest station. The characters could certainly “jump onboard” if they could move fast enough to catch up with the rail (fast horse or magic) but would then have to explain themselves to the House Deneith guards. I also have express and local lightning rails (mainly as a way to frustrate the players). The express rails stop only at the major stops (large cities) and provide rapid transport across large distances and generally have more 1st class carts. Locals stop at all of the mapped stops (all towns and villages on the maps) and at the optional stops and generally have more of the 2nd class and cargo carts. The local is far less likely to be “on schedule” than the express due to the variety of stops and cargo it encounters. This is just how I have envisioned it and it seems to work.
goblin_pride 10-29-06, 03:21 PM	The lightning rail has all sorts of stops on the route, you just have to dig up a couple of the conductor stones and they stop pretty much right where you want them too. They're not really all that easy to get started again after that, but at least you'll have some company afterwards (not that they'll be all that friendly at that point).
DMDaddy 10-29-06, 04:32 PM	Thanks, I was thinking along the same lines. I'm not sure if they will think to dig up the conductor stones, but they will most likely follow the tracks to a small town or outpost of sorts that may have a stop. They think it will be as easy as just booking passage, but the town will no doubt have a few turns and twists. I'm think about a powerful thieves guild who takes the profits from the farmers and persuades all visitors to pay and leave.
Tyveil 10-30-06, 02:23 PM	5N lists all the stops for the lightning rails. Each location has a time and cost, so I don't see the rail making many if any unexpected stops.
ccerose 10-31-06, 10:58 AM	You could possibly bribe an "engineer" or make a substantial gift contribution to House Lyrander to get them to make an unscheduled stop, I'm sure.
DMDaddy 10-31-06, 01:05 PM	5N may very well be the next book I get. I'm not sure how the players may try to stop the lightning rail. That will be a problem for them to solve. At least I know I was on the right track on elaborating from the ECS.
Thindelock 10-31-06, 01:33 PM	You guys sure it was 5N that had that chart of rates, times, and stops? I remember seeing that chart in Explorer's Handbook (I just referenced it in last night's game). It may be printed in 5N as well and I missed it... Either way, there's something odd I noticed about that chart. The distance from Sharn to Wroat listed on the chart isn't anywhere near right to scale with the maps of Breland, and it's not right compared with the ECS web enhancement map that includes the lightning rail and caravan distances. I forget the exact numbers, but it's a few hundred miles off, and unfortunately if you want your map-scale to remain close to consistent that means having to recalculate most of that blasted chart (since Sharn is the departure point assumed for each entry on the western run, and distances are cumulative from the Sharn-Wroat run). I just tack on an extra half-day and call it close enough, personally. In my game, most lightning rail and similar trips tend to be riding the red line, Indiana Jones-style. Miles rarely matter, and tacking an extra half-day on that run is simple enough to do on the fly.
Tyveil 10-31-06, 02:18 PM	You guys sure it was 5N that had that chart of rates, times, and stops? I remember seeing that chart in Explorer's Handbook (I just referenced it in last night's game). It may be printed in 5N as well and I missed it... I don't have the Explorer's Handbook, it's in 5N. I don't have my books handy so can't elaborate much but I think any major city with a lightning rail station listed the times/costs to connecting cities. I think these are the capitals - ex. Wroat for Aundair (?)
ccerose 10-31-06, 06:36 PM	Also, if you download the Khorvaire Map web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebwe/20041206a), it lists the number of miles between stops. This new poster map also adds a new feature not found in the EberronCampaign Setting book: calculated distances between cities and major stops along all Orien trade routes and lightning rail routes. Now you can determine exact travel times, as well as get an easy perspective on distances between adventure sites.
goblin_pride 11-01-06, 03:45 AM	Either way, there's something odd I noticed about that chart. The distance from Sharn to Wroat listed on the chart isn't anywhere near right to scale with the maps of Breland, and it's not right compared with the ECS web enhancement map that includes the lightning rail and caravan distances. I forget the exact numbers, but it's a few hundred miles off, and unfortunately if you want your map-scale to remain close to consistent that means having to recalculate most of that blasted chart (since Sharn is the departure point assumed for each entry on the western run, and distances are cumulative from the Sharn-Wroat run). Is the chart laid out in mileage or as a cost/time format? Because if it's laid out as a cost/time format, most of the traffic from Sharn to Wroat may be a sort of "express" run. Without the extra stops along the redline it wouldn't take the extra half-day of travel time.
Edymnion 11-01-06, 09:15 AM	The lightning rail has all sorts of stops on the route, you just have to dig up a couple of the conductor stones and they stop pretty much right where you want them too. They're not really all that easy to get started again after that, but at least you'll have some company afterwards (not that they'll be all that friendly at that point).You'll have lots of friendly company once you get to Dreadhold though. Especially the large hairy shifter guy named "Molly" that wants to be your "special friend" for the duration of your stay...:eek:
Thindelock 11-01-06, 10:31 AM	Is the chart laid out in mileage or as a cost/time format? The chart (Explorer's Handbook, p20) shows both mileage and time from Sharn, and from the most recent stop on the line, for each stop. The chart lists the distance from Sharn to Wroat as 212 miles. The web-enhancement Khorvaire map has it marked as 417 miles for the same trip, almost twice as much. Looking at the maps and scales given in ECS and ExHB, as well as the web enhancement, I'd say 417 seems more accurate. The difference is 205 miles. It'd take a rail about 6.75 hours (rounded to match the chart's quarter-hour accuracy) to cover the missing miles at 720miles/day (ExHB, p18) So, add 6:45 to the Sharn-Wroat run if you insist on internal distance/time consistency. Unless I'm mistaken, that means adding 6:45 to every run's "time from Sharn" entry. Normally I hate nitpicking details, but i've had players hassle me about distance inconsistencies before.
goblin_pride 11-01-06, 03:14 PM	Normally I hate nitpicking details, but i've had players hassle me about distance inconsistencies before. I used to not pay attention until that one DM way back when hit me and the rest of the group with one of those "you need to get there before X happens" adventures, after that timekeeping became important to me. Although nitpicking is always annoying.
Caine_Hazen 11-02-06, 05:21 PM	Actually I came on here again looking for info on those discrepicies in those books. Overall it looks like the scale gets a bit hosed from book to book. Is there any general concensus on this that anyone knows of? ...or perhaps errata?
Edymnion 11-02-06, 07:09 PM	Actually I came on here again looking for info on those discrepicies in those books. Overall it looks like the scale gets a bit hosed from book to book. Is there any general concensus on this that anyone knows of? ...or perhaps errata?Generally the problem comes from the fact that Khovaire got dramatically scaled up somewhere during production. Keith said he had intended it to be smaller than it is now (which explains why the population numbers seem so low), and somewhere along the line the scale got increased (either intentionally or accidentally), and thats what came out in the released books. So yes, the scale changes from book to book because everybody was basically scrambling to figure out what the scale should actually be. The best options are to either stick with the original numbers in the ECS and extrapolate for missing ones, or use the latest book published with the numbers and just consider them correct. It gets kinda weird when you mix books and the distance between cities changes by an order of magnitude or two. ;)
lordalm 11-05-06, 10:18 AM	Generally the problem comes from the fact that Khovaire got dramatically scaled up somewhere during production. Keith said he had intended it to be smaller than it is now (which explains why the population numbers seem so low), and somewhere along the line the scale got increased (either intentionally or accidentally), and thats what came out in the released books. So yes, the scale changes from book to book because everybody was basically scrambling to figure out what the scale should actually be. The best options are to either stick with the original numbers in the ECS and extrapolate for missing ones, or use the latest book published with the numbers and just consider them correct. It gets kinda weird when you mix books and the distance between cities changes by an order of magnitude or two. ;) That explains why it got easier to figure out how to charge my group for the use of the lightning rail. The ECS was terrible for that. The 5N and the Explorer's Handbook explained it much better but I missed any discrepency between the two. Not that I really remember the cost in the E'sH. But my memory is not that great, and I have/am reading so much D&D material...