Box Set Glory Days [Archive] - Wizards Community

Box Set Glory Days [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pallis
11-28-04, 05:54 AM Hey folks
...anyone else out there missing those halcyon days of boxed set glory, where you knew you'd open up a treasure trove of detailed maps, detailed books and other goodies?
I bought the Sharn sourcebook, and good though it is, I can't help thinking that the hardback book format is doing the range a disservice. Whereas now, I have to wade in and place the whereabouts of magic shops, restaurants, theatres, etc. on the one page fits all maps scattered throughout the book, surely a boxed set would have enabled the designers to really 'go to town' (excuse the pun) and do the city some justice...
Maps, template ID papers, adventure tiles of Sharn's streets, bridges, plazas, etc. for use with D&D minis;combined with all the great detail in the sourcebook.
That's what I want, but maybe I'm being greedy...
Ok, slight grumble over...how's everyone else feel about this?

:ghosted:
Citan
11-28-04, 06:59 AM I totally agree with you. I loved the boxed sets. As much as I like hardcover books, they simply cannot offer what the boxed sets did. I would pay even more money if i'd get a boxed set with lots of maps and other goodies. But it seems the age of boxed sets is finally gone. There aren't any RPGs that have boxed sets today.

Perhaps there would be some kind of Special Edition "Eberron Campaign Setting" in a boxed set format in the far future :)

Citan
Maelflux
11-28-04, 07:08 AM *agree agree!*

Opening a box set offered greater joy than many things in life! :)

*Joins the Cult of The Box Set Below*
Beleriphon
11-28-04, 07:12 AM *agree agree!*

Opening a box set offered greater joy than many things in life! :)

*Joins the Cult of The Box Set Below*

I liked the boxed sets, if only for the poster maps. In terms of actual page count the hard backs are often much denser, and cover more material. That being said, why don't we have a poster map of Khorvaire? Thats what I miss.
nyysjan
11-28-04, 08:29 AM personally all i wish for is an extensive map of khorvaire i can spread along the table showing cities, roads, lightning rails, and other stuff including the borderlines :D
and a list of major NPC's and their basic information :plotting:

and maybe another cup of tea :whatsthis
then i shall be content :cloud9:
rc_brooks
11-28-04, 01:52 PM Hey folks
...anyone else out there missing those halcyon days of boxed set glory, where you knew you'd open up a treasure trove of detailed maps, detailed books and other goodies?
I bought the Sharn sourcebook, and good though it is, I can't help thinking that the hardback book format is doing the range a disservice. Whereas now, I have to wade in and place the whereabouts of magic shops, restaurants, theatres, etc. on the one page fits all maps scattered throughout the book, surely a boxed set would have enabled the designers to really 'go to town' (excuse the pun) and do the city some justice...
Maps, template ID papers, adventure tiles of Sharn's streets, bridges, plazas, etc. for use with D&D minis;combined with all the great detail in the sourcebook.
That's what I want, but maybe I'm being greedy...
Ok, slight grumble over...how's everyone else feel about this?

:ghosted:

/agree /agree /agree

Man I miss those.... one of my fondest memories in RPing was the day I rushed home with my Dark Sun boxed set and cracked it open... followed closely by Undermountain. Ahhh those were the days.
MageofMyth
11-28-04, 02:14 PM I too miss the Box Sets and would love to purchase more.

When I pull my old ones out they still have pages of campaign notes, in the boxes. So they were useful for many things.
Edymnion
11-28-04, 02:22 PM As fun as those were, there is no frickin' way I'd pay the price WotC would ask for one of those things.

The price they're asking for the hardbacks now is boardline too much as is (anyone remember back when WotC said they were going to put books out cheaper than TSR's inflated pricetags? Yeah, now we're paying $10 a book more...). I mean, I could easily see WotC charging $70-$100 for that kind of a box set, and really, what would we get? Maybe $5 worth of extra materials, and more packaging.

No thank you. I'll stick to the all in one, easy to carry hardback book. It may not be as fancy and as cool, but its much easier to handle, and they're only overcharging me for one thing, not a dozen.
ThanisKartaleon
11-28-04, 03:14 PM That being said, why don't we have a poster map of Khorvaire? Thats what I miss.
They did put a poster map of Eberron in one of the Dragon mags... I think it was the Queen with Burning Eyes one. Now, a cloth map? With national boundaries and countries & large cities labeled? Oh yes. If they brought that out separate, I could see paying $25 or so... something like 2-1/2'x4' or close to that. Would that sound right? Toss in a couple Sharn ID papers, some other props with an adventure that uses it all, and I might even pay $40.
MageofMyth
11-28-04, 05:39 PM The Eberron map was in Dungeon issue #113 in August of 2004.
Takasi
11-28-04, 05:59 PM Did anyone buy the boxed D&D Basic Game? I thought it was a pretty good format to follow. I'd love to see Eberron get similar treatment as a campaign module. Here's what it should include:

Adventure/Monster/Background Book for DM
Player Gen Options Book with new Classes/Races/Feats appropriate to Module
Miniatures for every encounter
Tiles/Tiled Maps for every encounter
Materials to handout to players during the campaign (Pictures, Regional Maps, etc)

Basically, I'd like to see something that requires no additional prep work on the DM's part.

If you want boxed sets, please go purchase the Basic Set. If it sells well, I'm sure they would consider trying it again.

Alternatively, I wish the D&D Campaign Seasons program would modify their kits to include all of this material. They could raise the price of the kit from $10 to $25, and we could get a new adventure every month. Would you be more willing to run an RPGA Living Eberron game if this was offered?
Maelflux
11-29-04, 03:43 AM The Eberron map was in Dungeon issue #113 in August of 2004.

How good(detailed) is that map, and whats the size? Well, what I really want to know - is it worth buying the issue just for the map? :)
Save-vs-DM
11-29-04, 05:04 AM Okay, I'll burn in gaming hell for saying it, but I didn't like the boxed sets.

I hated how the books were split up - I like my information all in one book.
The box was a pain in the arse.
The maps are cool, but they are in the book.

Don't get me wrong, I still clearly memeber my joy as I unwrapped my planescapes boxed set in my car right outside the game store - I can still rmember the smell (and I still have the original box with all the goodies, save a few maps that are hanging on our walls).

But really, all I want is a big map. And I can get that without a boxed set. Give me a big map to go with my shiney books and I'll be happy.

(Is stunned to have finally disagreed with Pallis)

Cheers,
SvD
Geoff Watson
11-29-04, 05:05 AM How good(detailed) is that map, and whats the size? Well, what I really want to know - is it worth buying the issue just for the map? :)

No, the map doesn't have borders, towns, etc.

Search through the old messages, a couple of people have done very nice maps, based on the country maps in the ECS.

Geoff.
Maelflux
11-29-04, 05:18 AM No, the map doesn't have borders, towns, etc.

Search through the old messages, a couple of people have done very nice maps, based on the country maps in the ECS.

Geoff.

Yeah, I have a few of those printed already, but just in standard A4 size.

Anyways, thx for the answer :)
Brastan
11-29-04, 07:04 AM I'd agree with a Map-pack boxed thing. Including maps, tiled encounter maps, and various handouts. I like the books, especially the few the better. It makes transpiration easier. Also it's better for reference. I used to misplace various elements of boxed sets and temperately lost valuable/critical campaign information. However I do like encounter maps packs, like the Mapsheets Classic Battletech has.

Sharn Streets Mappack
-2 Lower Sharn Streets
-2 Middle Sharn Streets
-2 Upper Sharn Streets
-2 Cogs Caverns
ReivaxZerai
11-29-04, 10:01 AM I don't miss boxes. I didn't like everything being in separate books. I see your point, though.

But the $35 Eberron campaign should have had a folded map similar to the FRCS book's. I'd have paid $40 for that book in order to have a printed 2'x3' wall map of Khorvaire, with the continental map on the reverse.

Maybe one of their Maps Folio sets will have it, along with detailed country maps
Edymnion
11-29-04, 01:06 PM I've got this great jpeg map, fully detailed, normal print size would easily be 2'x3'. I was considering burning it off to a CD, and taking it to Kinko's to have it printed off into a poster I could hang up.

Let me just put it this way, have you ever priced a full color wall poster at Kinko's? I believe the price I worked out was $120 to print that file out into a good map.

I don't love Eberron THAT much!
ReivaxZerai
11-29-04, 02:06 PM Quoting a Kinko's price is hardly realistic! :D

I once took a 210 page PDF on CD to see about having it printed and bound and they quoted me $149. The guy couldn't understand why I was laughing so hard.
It was the manual for a production software I'd bought, so I just contacted the company and bought a print manual from them at $19.95 + a few dollars shipping.
Prosperohawk
11-29-04, 04:05 PM The Eberron DM's screen has a proper map included in it. About bloody time!

I actually agree with both sides of the argument over box sets. I always found the books less comprehensive than I'd hoped but the maps were bril and there is a certain prestige about a box set that is undeniable. I remember when I first started playing D&D 11 (I'm so old!) years ago my DM had a lot of the old boxed sets that drew my attention more than the lone books did.

It's something I've found about 3rd and 3.5 D&D in general. Whether its the covers of the books or the art or the way it's written, it's just not as "Dungeons and Dragons" as the old 2nd edition stuff was. Maybe its just me, or maybe its because I started with Advanced D&D and I loved the old artwork but... I don't know how to describe it exactly but does anyone else feel that? I think its because everything in D&D now is so clean and predictable. There was something archaic about 2nd edition that made it seem more unpredictable and exciting. I'm playing in a game now set in the realms and its boring me out of my skull because the world is so tired and warmed over. Just another fantasy world. It was that feeling that drew me to Eberron in the first place. It reminded me of what it was like to play D&D when I was younger, when the world was mysterious and fresh and the game still held some mystique.
Edymnion
11-29-04, 04:51 PM Yeah, 2e was more D&D'ish feeling to me as well, but I can put my finger on why.
There were no rules in 2e. Oh yeah, there were tons more rules than there are for 3e, but at the same time, there were less. There wasn't a codified set of rules that covered everything the way there is in 3e. Ever tried to convert a 2e magic weapon over to 3e? Its bloody hard! About the only thing in there is a description of the item, it barely even tells you what it does enough to use it!

2e felt more D&D'ish because you were making up more than just what happened, you had to make up a lot of rules to fill in gaps, and a lot of house rules to fix things like racial class limits, so it all felt much more personal. You weren't just stepping into the game, you had to take the game and really make it yours before you could use it.

Its kind of like building models vs buying toys. If the end result you want is a toy airplane to play with, you can either buy the toy airplane completely made and ready to go (3e), and start playing with it, or you could buy the model kit (2e), assemble all the pieces, jiggle things to make them fit, paint it yourself, and end up with your final product. That model kit is harder to make, but, depending on your skill, could end up being a better piece than the mass produced finished product. Or, it could end up being a piece of junk because you couldn't figure out which piece went where.
Factol Rhys
11-29-04, 11:57 PM personally all i wish for is an extensive map of khorvaire i can spread along the table showing cities, roads, lightning rails, and other stuff including the borderlines :D
and a list of major NPC's and their basic information :plotting:

and maybe another cup of tea :whatsthis
then i shall be content :cloud9:

How about this one? Very detailed pdf map of Khorvaire. Extremely zoom-able, and detailed at every zoom level.
http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/lore-map.html
Save-vs-DM
11-30-04, 01:54 AM Yeah, 2e was more D&D'ish feeling to me as well, but I can put my finger on why.
There were no rules in 2e. Oh yeah, there were tons more rules than there are for 3e, but at the same time, there were less. There wasn't a codified set of rules that covered everything the way there is in 3e. Ever tried to convert a 2e magic weapon over to 3e? Its bloody hard! About the only thing in there is a description of the item, it barely even tells you what it does enough to use it!

2e felt more D&D'ish because you were making up more than just what happened, you had to make up a lot of rules to fill in gaps, and a lot of house rules to fix things like racial class limits, so it all felt much more personal. You weren't just stepping into the game, you had to take the game and really make it yours before you could use it.

Its kind of like building models vs buying toys. If the end result you want is a toy airplane to play with, you can either buy the toy airplane completely made and ready to go (3e), and start playing with it, or you could buy the model kit (2e), assemble all the pieces, jiggle things to make them fit, paint it yourself, and end up with your final product. That model kit is harder to make, but, depending on your skill, could end up being a better piece than the mass produced finished product. Or, it could end up being a piece of junk because you couldn't figure out which piece went where.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, Edymnion. There was something nice about the lack of rules - I think players felt less restricted because their options weren't all spell out for them.

Cheers,'
SvD
Imruphel
11-30-04, 03:07 AM I wonder whether printing the boxed sets in, say, China would get around the issue of prohibitive cost that WotC has stated is the reason for not using the boxed set format anymore?

Hmmm, I wonder where the basic set was printed?
Pallis
11-30-04, 12:40 PM I've just gone through my initiation ceremony to join the Cult of The Box Set Below as mentioned earlier in this thread by Maelflux. I got royal blue robes with gold trim, a Ring of Hardback Book Resistance and a one year's subscription to Wizards Packaging and Binding (the non elemental version). In return, I had to pledge to forget all about the D&D Gazetteer range of books for the Mystara world (Karameikos, Glantri, Ylaruam, etc.) which contained everything I ever expected of a boxed set and which, in hindsight, rather ruins my argument for detailed maps, detailed books (a players and a DM's!) and extra content in a boxed set. Damn!
But hey, these robes are v.cool...

:doh:
MageofMyth
11-30-04, 12:56 PM I miss the monsters that came in the box sets. Sure they are in the books, but I can't/won't rip pages out to have them with my manuals. I liked putting them all in a 3-ring binder. In fact I miss the old 3-ring binder monsters manual.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallis 11-28-04, 05:54 AM	Hey folks ...anyone else out there missing those halcyon days of boxed set glory, where you knew you'd open up a treasure trove of detailed maps, detailed books and other goodies? I bought the Sharn sourcebook, and good though it is, I can't help thinking that the hardback book format is doing the range a disservice. Whereas now, I have to wade in and place the whereabouts of magic shops, restaurants, theatres, etc. on the one page fits all maps scattered throughout the book, surely a boxed set would have enabled the designers to really 'go to town' (excuse the pun) and do the city some justice... Maps, template ID papers, adventure tiles of Sharn's streets, bridges, plazas, etc. for use with D&D minis;combined with all the great detail in the sourcebook. That's what I want, but maybe I'm being greedy... Ok, slight grumble over...how's everyone else feel about this? :ghosted:
Citan 11-28-04, 06:59 AM	I totally agree with you. I loved the boxed sets. As much as I like hardcover books, they simply cannot offer what the boxed sets did. I would pay even more money if i'd get a boxed set with lots of maps and other goodies. But it seems the age of boxed sets is finally gone. There aren't any RPGs that have boxed sets today. Perhaps there would be some kind of Special Edition "Eberron Campaign Setting" in a boxed set format in the far future :) Citan
Maelflux 11-28-04, 07:08 AM	agree agree! Opening a box set offered greater joy than many things in life! :) Joins the Cult of The Box Set Below
Beleriphon 11-28-04, 07:12 AM	agree agree! Opening a box set offered greater joy than many things in life! :) Joins the Cult of The Box Set Below I liked the boxed sets, if only for the poster maps. In terms of actual page count the hard backs are often much denser, and cover more material. That being said, why don't we have a poster map of Khorvaire? Thats what I miss.
nyysjan 11-28-04, 08:29 AM	personally all i wish for is an extensive map of khorvaire i can spread along the table showing cities, roads, lightning rails, and other stuff including the borderlines :D and a list of major NPC's and their basic information :plotting: and maybe another cup of tea :whatsthis then i shall be content :cloud9:
rc_brooks 11-28-04, 01:52 PM	Hey folks ...anyone else out there missing those halcyon days of boxed set glory, where you knew you'd open up a treasure trove of detailed maps, detailed books and other goodies? I bought the Sharn sourcebook, and good though it is, I can't help thinking that the hardback book format is doing the range a disservice. Whereas now, I have to wade in and place the whereabouts of magic shops, restaurants, theatres, etc. on the one page fits all maps scattered throughout the book, surely a boxed set would have enabled the designers to really 'go to town' (excuse the pun) and do the city some justice... Maps, template ID papers, adventure tiles of Sharn's streets, bridges, plazas, etc. for use with D&D minis;combined with all the great detail in the sourcebook. That's what I want, but maybe I'm being greedy... Ok, slight grumble over...how's everyone else feel about this? :ghosted: /agree /agree /agree Man I miss those.... one of my fondest memories in RPing was the day I rushed home with my Dark Sun boxed set and cracked it open... followed closely by Undermountain. Ahhh those were the days.
MageofMyth 11-28-04, 02:14 PM	I too miss the Box Sets and would love to purchase more. When I pull my old ones out they still have pages of campaign notes, in the boxes. So they were useful for many things.
Edymnion 11-28-04, 02:22 PM	As fun as those were, there is no frickin' way I'd pay the price WotC would ask for one of those things. The price they're asking for the hardbacks now is boardline too much as is (anyone remember back when WotC said they were going to put books out cheaper than TSR's inflated pricetags? Yeah, now we're paying $10 a book more...). I mean, I could easily see WotC charging $70-$100 for that kind of a box set, and really, what would we get? Maybe $5 worth of extra materials, and more packaging. No thank you. I'll stick to the all in one, easy to carry hardback book. It may not be as fancy and as cool, but its much easier to handle, and they're only overcharging me for one thing, not a dozen.
ThanisKartaleon 11-28-04, 03:14 PM	That being said, why don't we have a poster map of Khorvaire? Thats what I miss. They did put a poster map of Eberron in one of the Dragon mags... I think it was the Queen with Burning Eyes one. Now, a cloth map? With national boundaries and countries & large cities labeled? Oh yes. If they brought that out separate, I could see paying $25 or so... something like 2-1/2'x4' or close to that. Would that sound right? Toss in a couple Sharn ID papers, some other props with an adventure that uses it all, and I might even pay $40.
MageofMyth 11-28-04, 05:39 PM	The Eberron map was in Dungeon issue #113 in August of 2004.
Takasi 11-28-04, 05:59 PM	Did anyone buy the boxed D&D Basic Game? I thought it was a pretty good format to follow. I'd love to see Eberron get similar treatment as a campaign module. Here's what it should include: Adventure/Monster/Background Book for DM Player Gen Options Book with new Classes/Races/Feats appropriate to Module Miniatures for every encounter Tiles/Tiled Maps for every encounter Materials to handout to players during the campaign (Pictures, Regional Maps, etc) Basically, I'd like to see something that requires no additional prep work on the DM's part. If you want boxed sets, please go purchase the Basic Set. If it sells well, I'm sure they would consider trying it again. Alternatively, I wish the D&D Campaign Seasons program would modify their kits to include all of this material. They could raise the price of the kit from $10 to $25, and we could get a new adventure every month. Would you be more willing to run an RPGA Living Eberron game if this was offered?
Maelflux 11-29-04, 03:43 AM	The Eberron map was in Dungeon issue #113 in August of 2004. How good(detailed) is that map, and whats the size? Well, what I really want to know - is it worth buying the issue just for the map? :)
Save-vs-DM 11-29-04, 05:04 AM	Okay, I'll burn in gaming hell for saying it, but I didn't like the boxed sets. I hated how the books were split up - I like my information all in one book. The box was a pain in the arse. The maps are cool, but they are in the book. Don't get me wrong, I still clearly memeber my joy as I unwrapped my planescapes boxed set in my car right outside the game store - I can still rmember the smell (and I still have the original box with all the goodies, save a few maps that are hanging on our walls). But really, all I want is a big map. And I can get that without a boxed set. Give me a big map to go with my shiney books and I'll be happy. (Is stunned to have finally disagreed with Pallis) Cheers, SvD
Geoff Watson 11-29-04, 05:05 AM	How good(detailed) is that map, and whats the size? Well, what I really want to know - is it worth buying the issue just for the map? :) No, the map doesn't have borders, towns, etc. Search through the old messages, a couple of people have done very nice maps, based on the country maps in the ECS. Geoff.
Maelflux 11-29-04, 05:18 AM	No, the map doesn't have borders, towns, etc. Search through the old messages, a couple of people have done very nice maps, based on the country maps in the ECS. Geoff. Yeah, I have a few of those printed already, but just in standard A4 size. Anyways, thx for the answer :)
Brastan 11-29-04, 07:04 AM	I'd agree with a Map-pack boxed thing. Including maps, tiled encounter maps, and various handouts. I like the books, especially the few the better. It makes transpiration easier. Also it's better for reference. I used to misplace various elements of boxed sets and temperately lost valuable/critical campaign information. However I do like encounter maps packs, like the Mapsheets Classic Battletech has. Sharn Streets Mappack -2 Lower Sharn Streets -2 Middle Sharn Streets -2 Upper Sharn Streets -2 Cogs Caverns
ReivaxZerai 11-29-04, 10:01 AM	I don't miss boxes. I didn't like everything being in separate books. I see your point, though. But the $35 Eberron campaign should have had a folded map similar to the FRCS book's. I'd have paid $40 for that book in order to have a printed 2'x3' wall map of Khorvaire, with the continental map on the reverse. Maybe one of their Maps Folio sets will have it, along with detailed country maps
Edymnion 11-29-04, 01:06 PM	I've got this great jpeg map, fully detailed, normal print size would easily be 2'x3'. I was considering burning it off to a CD, and taking it to Kinko's to have it printed off into a poster I could hang up. Let me just put it this way, have you ever priced a full color wall poster at Kinko's? I believe the price I worked out was $120 to print that file out into a good map. I don't love Eberron THAT much!
ReivaxZerai 11-29-04, 02:06 PM	Quoting a Kinko's price is hardly realistic! :D I once took a 210 page PDF on CD to see about having it printed and bound and they quoted me $149. The guy couldn't understand why I was laughing so hard. It was the manual for a production software I'd bought, so I just contacted the company and bought a print manual from them at $19.95 + a few dollars shipping.
Prosperohawk 11-29-04, 04:05 PM	The Eberron DM's screen has a proper map included in it. About bloody time! I actually agree with both sides of the argument over box sets. I always found the books less comprehensive than I'd hoped but the maps were bril and there is a certain prestige about a box set that is undeniable. I remember when I first started playing D&D 11 (I'm so old!) years ago my DM had a lot of the old boxed sets that drew my attention more than the lone books did. It's something I've found about 3rd and 3.5 D&D in general. Whether its the covers of the books or the art or the way it's written, it's just not as "Dungeons and Dragons" as the old 2nd edition stuff was. Maybe its just me, or maybe its because I started with Advanced D&D and I loved the old artwork but... I don't know how to describe it exactly but does anyone else feel that? I think its because everything in D&D now is so clean and predictable. There was something archaic about 2nd edition that made it seem more unpredictable and exciting. I'm playing in a game now set in the realms and its boring me out of my skull because the world is so tired and warmed over. Just another fantasy world. It was that feeling that drew me to Eberron in the first place. It reminded me of what it was like to play D&D when I was younger, when the world was mysterious and fresh and the game still held some mystique.
Edymnion 11-29-04, 04:51 PM	Yeah, 2e was more D&D'ish feeling to me as well, but I can put my finger on why. There were no rules in 2e. Oh yeah, there were tons more rules than there are for 3e, but at the same time, there were less. There wasn't a codified set of rules that covered everything the way there is in 3e. Ever tried to convert a 2e magic weapon over to 3e? Its bloody hard! About the only thing in there is a description of the item, it barely even tells you what it does enough to use it! 2e felt more D&D'ish because you were making up more than just what happened, you had to make up a lot of rules to fill in gaps, and a lot of house rules to fix things like racial class limits, so it all felt much more personal. You weren't just stepping into the game, you had to take the game and really make it yours before you could use it. Its kind of like building models vs buying toys. If the end result you want is a toy airplane to play with, you can either buy the toy airplane completely made and ready to go (3e), and start playing with it, or you could buy the model kit (2e), assemble all the pieces, jiggle things to make them fit, paint it yourself, and end up with your final product. That model kit is harder to make, but, depending on your skill, could end up being a better piece than the mass produced finished product. Or, it could end up being a piece of junk because you couldn't figure out which piece went where.
Factol Rhys 11-29-04, 11:57 PM	personally all i wish for is an extensive map of khorvaire i can spread along the table showing cities, roads, lightning rails, and other stuff including the borderlines :D and a list of major NPC's and their basic information :plotting: and maybe another cup of tea :whatsthis then i shall be content :cloud9: How about this one? Very detailed pdf map of Khorvaire. Extremely zoom-able, and detailed at every zoom level. http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/lore-map.html
Save-vs-DM 11-30-04, 01:54 AM	Yeah, 2e was more D&D'ish feeling to me as well, but I can put my finger on why. There were no rules in 2e. Oh yeah, there were tons more rules than there are for 3e, but at the same time, there were less. There wasn't a codified set of rules that covered everything the way there is in 3e. Ever tried to convert a 2e magic weapon over to 3e? Its bloody hard! About the only thing in there is a description of the item, it barely even tells you what it does enough to use it! 2e felt more D&D'ish because you were making up more than just what happened, you had to make up a lot of rules to fill in gaps, and a lot of house rules to fix things like racial class limits, so it all felt much more personal. You weren't just stepping into the game, you had to take the game and really make it yours before you could use it. Its kind of like building models vs buying toys. If the end result you want is a toy airplane to play with, you can either buy the toy airplane completely made and ready to go (3e), and start playing with it, or you could buy the model kit (2e), assemble all the pieces, jiggle things to make them fit, paint it yourself, and end up with your final product. That model kit is harder to make, but, depending on your skill, could end up being a better piece than the mass produced finished product. Or, it could end up being a piece of junk because you couldn't figure out which piece went where. I think you hit the nail on the head here, Edymnion. There was something nice about the lack of rules - I think players felt less restricted because their options weren't all spell out for them. Cheers,' SvD
Imruphel 11-30-04, 03:07 AM	I wonder whether printing the boxed sets in, say, China would get around the issue of prohibitive cost that WotC has stated is the reason for not using the boxed set format anymore? Hmmm, I wonder where the basic set was printed?
Pallis 11-30-04, 12:40 PM	I've just gone through my initiation ceremony to join the Cult of The Box Set Below as mentioned earlier in this thread by Maelflux. I got royal blue robes with gold trim, a Ring of Hardback Book Resistance and a one year's subscription to Wizards Packaging and Binding (the non elemental version). In return, I had to pledge to forget all about the D&D Gazetteer range of books for the Mystara world (Karameikos, Glantri, Ylaruam, etc.) which contained everything I ever expected of a boxed set and which, in hindsight, rather ruins my argument for detailed maps, detailed books (a players and a DM's!) and extra content in a boxed set. Damn! But hey, these robes are v.cool... :doh:
MageofMyth 11-30-04, 12:56 PM	I miss the monsters that came in the box sets. Sure they are in the books, but I can't/won't rip pages out to have them with my manuals. I liked putting them all in a 3-ring binder. In fact I miss the old 3-ring binder monsters manual.