Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Freezy 05-06-05, 08:57 AM	What would this item cost? I gave it to one of my players for finishing a simple quest. It only has one charge per day, but that charge lasts the whole day for that specific craft check. The bronzewood would make the ring more expensive, but since the ring doesn't way anything how much would it cost? Magecraft is a lvl 1 spell that grants a +5 craft competence bonus So the ring with a +5 (squared for the bonus) 25 *100 because it's a ring 5/1 charge per day so divide base cost by 5 5^ 2 *100 /5 would come out at 500gp right? depending on the bronzewood cost it would range somwhere between 500 and 1000 gp ??? this is the firtst item actually translated into gp, and the rules are clear about a lot. But still it's all a bit foggy. Please help :D DOH i meant bronzewood :S
Radkres 05-06-05, 09:43 AM	Remember Ironwood is a Druid spell Lvl 6 {PHB Page 246 }not a material. What you need is someone to craft a master work wood ring out of Bronze wood, Densewood, Livewood, Soarwood or some other kind of wood. then when creating the ring the second to the final step being Ironwood spell.
Gurv 05-06-05, 11:05 AM	I think the ring is a reasonable idea, but you calculated it wrong. Not mathwise, but by using the wrong method. The ring you describe doesn't really give a bonus on checks. It functions once per day; if it worked for anyone wearing it, automatically, then your metho would be correct. Essentially, it is a ring that allows the wearer to cast magecraft on himself once per day, which gives a bonus on certain checks. The ring allows a first level spell be cast once per day, as though cast by a first level caster. If it can be activated by a command word, then the cost should be: Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp = 1,800gp I wouldn't give a discount for it having only 1 charge per day, since that charge lasts all day (the item borders on being use-activated, which would raise the cost to 2,000gp, not lower it). Remember that the item creation rules are just guidelines, and that of all the things in the game, allowing new magic items must be judged by the DM for balance. It is still the cheapest magical ring available. Having it created out of special materials is little more than flavor, since you could just have it made from iron and be done with it. It shouldn't raise the cost (think of part of the 1,800gp as paying for whatever you make it from). I think that bronzewood would be a better choice though, because ironwood is created by a non-permanant druid spell of high level, which would have unmeasureable effects on how complicated it is to get for such an otherwise minor item.
Mandarbgrim 05-06-05, 11:24 AM	I disagree with that assessment of the price of the item, except for the part about Ironwood merely being a flavor text addition..it shouldn't effect the price. In Eberron an Eternal Wand which allows a 1st level spell to be cast twice a day is 820 gp, the spell has no material components past what the player would be using already, and from what I understand the Dragonshard part of it is just flavor text that is already incorporated into the cost of it. So...the Ring form makes it slightly better in that anyone can cast it and that it can be cast without having to pull it out, but since it isn't a combat spell that makes having it in ring form and thus taking up a body slot needlessly to be a pain. I would put it at 500 gp if anyone could use it, and 400 gp if only casters with Magecraft on their spelllist can activate it without a UMD check. 2000 gp makes no sense with Eternal Wands that are much more efficient floating around..thus..the resell value of the ring would be lower in an actual magic item economy. And the resell value is more important in this situation than the creation cost.
Gurv 05-06-05, 12:15 PM	I would put it at 500 gp if anyone could use it, and 400 gp if only casters with Magecraft on their spelllist can activate it without a UMD check. Do whatever you want. I was talking about what the rules say it might cost. I happen to agree with the rules in this case, but you are free to decide that the spell is so minor that a ring that casts is costs less. 2000 gp makes no sense with Eternal Wands that are much more efficient floating around..thus..the resell value of the ring would be lower in an actual magic item economy. And the resell value is more important in this situation than the creation cost. As you said, an Eternal Wand works only for someone who can cast the spell already. The increase in value is from the ability for anyone to use it; as far as economics is concerned, the existance of an item that lets a wizard cast a spell doesn't affect the value of an item that lets a commoner do it. You might feel that that ability isn't worth so much, but that doesn't take into account the RAW, and that means there is no common point of reference in discussing it. Now, if the item produced a constant +5 bonus to Craft checks, then I would place the value at 2,500gp. That is the price of a Ring of Climbing+5. Since the Ring only works 1/day instead of actually working all the time, therefore meaning that it can't be shared and it works only on a "specific craft check", I think that 1,800p is a decent discount.
Freezy 05-06-05, 02:16 PM	added a doh...
Freezy 05-06-05, 02:21 PM	Thanks for al the reply's normally the ring would cost 1800 so i'll leave it at that thanks all... you've been a great help... ----------------------------------------------- wow 1800 gp for a small package delivery through a forest for a Vanara, and the other player nearly died the first attempt... lol they were only 2 Corrupted goblin's LOL (see book of vile darkness :P)
Mandarbgrim 05-06-05, 02:22 PM	ummm..not wanting to argue, but you are already making a subjective ruling by saying that the Charges per day adjustment doesn't apply. This is on the basis that the item functions all day..yet..it only functions for a single craft check...it just happens to function all day for that craft check. If they try to craft two items in the day..then they couldn't use it for the second item. I'm not sure how this justifies going against the RAW in this case to not divide the 1,800 by 5... Which by RAW seems to be what is needed. Dividing it comes out to a price that is 360 gold pieces for the ring. The Magic Item creation rules are only guidelines. It says as such in the DMG. "The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item priced in this chapter and use its price as a guide." p 282 Sorry for argueing, but it grates on me to have someone imply that what I am doing is against the rules and just my opinion, yet that person can be considered to be doing the same thing.
Pinky's brain 05-06-05, 02:43 PM	The value of the object in in game terms should influence the cost, and the in game value of this object is very high ... because it can be passed around, free magecraft for everyone. You could make quite a bit of money going around a city with this ring letting everyone who payed a small fee use it. Most crafting takes a long time, unless you use fabricate. Infinite time a day command word item pricing is very often broken.
Gurv 05-06-05, 02:46 PM	Sorry for argueing, but it grates on me to have someone imply that what I am doing is against the rules and just my opinion, yet that person can be considered to be doing the same thing. True enough. I apologize. Honestly, I think that a ring to produce a magecraft effect is using the wrong body slot. The fact that it allows the spell to be cast as opposed to granting the bonus constantly might be seen differently, but I don't think that rings are supposed to be quite so cheap. It is just a matter of flavor, but I think that a 360gp magical ring is a little unfeasable. Otherwise, wouldn't they be more common? If I were creating a magecraft item, I would make it a wondrous item: place the enchantment on the tools. The kind of Craft check that could be made would be set by the tools themselves.
Dragonmann 05-06-05, 03:09 PM	I would suggest a quick look at some of the items in the miniatures handbook. They have probably been reprinted elsewhere as well. An example is the ring of one mighty blow. Once worn for 24 hours, it can be used once per day as a free action for a damage bonus. With the long wear requirement, and the body slot, the ring would be less valuable. Probably between 500 and 1000. Depending on who could use it. Just my 2 coppers
Freezy 05-06-05, 06:32 PM	So to recap the ring will be worth 500 gp the money that Bronzewood costs for a pound not counting the spell... I already decided the effect of the ring and the cost was just an after thought... although the charge will be one per day. Setting a wear 24 hour restriction imho would not be fun... And this item was given by someone nicknamed the smiling sun well at least in the fall, a woodling human, so i think that the once per day is more than enough restriction... and the arguments keep on comming... thanks again all... ;-)
Solarious 05-06-05, 10:49 PM	As you said, an Eternal Wand works only for someone who can cast the spell already. The increase in value is from the ability for anyone to use it... Clairification: anyone who can cast an arcane spell can use it. This is what lets Magewights take the place of battle-mages in the dying days of the Last War. Personally, I would say stick with making an item that grants +5 bonus on Craft checks for 2500gp. Either that, or use 1 week attunation period to balance being able to switch out that bonus to whatever craft skill you want.
Gurv 05-06-05, 11:24 PM	Clairification: anyone who can cast an arcane spell can use it. This is what lets Magewights take the place of battle-mages in the dying days of the Last War. By bad. I typed that wrong. But it remains that commoners cannot use eternal wands, and that is what makes the ring viable.
Solarious 05-06-05, 11:36 PM	By bad. I typed that wrong. And I assume that you typed 'my' wrong too? ;) I'll stop poking you now. But it remains that commoners cannot use eternal wands, and that is what makes the ring viable. But if you have a relatively cheap and mass-producable ring that lets you cast such a useful, productive, and overall desirable spell, what's the point of being a Magewight? Magecraft remains one of the most desirable and useful spell at first level. I don't believe in robbing the humble Magewight of it's prestige: it's already an NPC class for goodness' sake!
Edymnion 05-07-05, 01:35 AM	I'd make it a straight up skill boosting item, if I were you, the pricing is MUCH simpler that way. But, if you want it to be a one charge per day ring that uses an all day magecraft, its gonna get PRICEY. Because what you're asking for is a Persistant Spell Magecraft ring. And if memory serves, Persistant is +6 to the spell level. Meaning that cheap little ring is now being crafted as a 7th level spell item. OUCH.
Pinky's brain 05-07-05, 05:43 AM	Magecraft has a duration of 1 day anyway, no need for persistent spell. Another thing which annoys me about the magic pricing guidelines apart from the brokenness of infinite time a day command word items is the fact that there is no multiplier for personal spells ... there really should be.
Gurv 05-07-05, 08:34 AM	And I assume that you typed 'my' wrong too? ;) Yes. I've been sick... :shifty: But if you have a relatively cheap and mass-producable ring that lets you cast such a useful, productive, and overall desirable spell, what's the point of being a Magewight? Magecraft remains one of the most desirable and useful spell at first level. I don't believe in robbing the humble Magewight of it's prestige: it's already an NPC class for goodness' sake! Which is why I am arguing that the ring should cost at least 1,800 gold, not 500 gold, or 360 gold. The item isn't world shattering or anything, but it should be at least expensive enough not to be a staple at every workship in on Khorvaire. I mean, some of the value suggestions are lower than what a normal wand would cost (750 gold). The normal wand has the drawback that only certain people can use it, and it only works 50 times. It seems obvious that the ring is better because anyone can use it and it never burns out: it should cost more, significantly so.
Keenath 05-07-05, 10:33 PM	A cost of 1800, twice what a wand would cost, is getting close to a proper price for this sort of item. I'd actually say it should be higher, because you're making this item accessable to everyone instead of just magewrights (and artificers). I'd say a 1/day command-word Ring of Magecraft ought to run 2000 to 2200 gold. Will this make every craftsman run out and grab a ring? Probably not. Most people aren't anywhere close to having the cash for one of these -- it's cheaper to hire a magewright, or possibly level into it! I don't see the point of an attunement period, since you're basically spending all day crafting anyway. You won't be swapping out your Ring of the Ram for this in the middle of an adventure. All in all, I don't know if I'd allow this sort of item. The flexibility of it makes an item that's sort of like +5 to ALL craft checks, where a normal item would be merely +5 to ONE craft skill. It might be better to avoid the problem, and tell craftsmen to get a set of magical tools if they really want to improve their work.